andrewcjduong

Hi. I'm quite new to this forum and I own an Acura CL Type S. I was looking into putting in a simple 10" subwoofer since the stock Bose system doesn't have one but I can't seem to figure out which one I should go for. So for you audiophiles. What do you think is the best sounding sub for it's money. I'm not really interested in blasting the subs as loud as I can since I only want to put one 10" in and I'm looking for more quality then loudness. I was looking at the Alpine Type-R's but do any of you suggest anything else? And no. I don't want W7's since those are overpriced for my budget.

Also, ported or sealed box? I was told that bandpass aren't too good.

Any suggestions would be great. Thanks!

on1wheel01

Well what's your budget what amp are you going to run. Sealed for tight crisp and quality. Or a transmission line that would kick azz. By you saying that about a bandpass I imagine you mean a trash store bought one.

on1wheel01

Also search and look at recent threads plenty of info here.

kingstonn

Alpine type R... best bang for the buck

andrewcjduong

Yea I figured I'd get the Alpine Type R with a Rockford Fosgate PRIME amp. But I'm not too sure about what size now. 10" or 12" and I think I'll go with sealed most likely because I'm not a big fan of the port blowing sound that comes out of ported boxes.

And also. Does anyone happen to know where to find a sort of wiring diagram or how to run the wire?

Sorry about all these questions. Total newb to the audio things. I'm using the stock Bose 6 disc changer.

on1wheel01

Wow really ? And what's you experience with audio? A stereo integrity sub would sound killer.

on1wheel01

[QUOTE=andrewcjduong;12164249]Yea I figured I'd get the Alpine Type R with a Rockford Fosgate PRIME amp. But I'm not too sure about what size now. 10" or 12" and I think I'll go with sealed most likely because I'm not a big fan of the port blowing sound that comes out of ported boxes.

And also. Does anyone happen to know where to find a sort of wiring diagram or how to run the wire?


It sounds like your experiance is with store bought pre fab boxes. You should have a experianced builder make you one. If your around nc hit me up. But just don't get a regular crappy box. Also like I said search there is a ton of info on wiring here. Search........

andrewcjduong

I searched around and asked another friend with a CL and he told me to get Rockford Fosgate Punch subwoofer because it's a shallow mount and put it in the spare tire to hide it since the car is stock.

eggyhustles

http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/s...7B47%7DS4.html

http://www.woofersetc.com/p4993/ID10...-Subwoofer.htm

http://www.woofersetc.com/p5202/10W3...-Subwoofer.htm

http://www.woofersetc.com/p7336/ARC1...-Subwoofer.htm

http://www.woofersetc.com/p1973/M610...-Subwoofer.htm

So many subs you can go with

on1wheel01

good list i was using my phone so couldnt do that. My vote out of those would be the dcon

mattastick

Brian, On1wheel, seems to have hit the nail on the head. OP, you obviously don't have much experience with any kind of decent boxes. In my car, a bandpass was the loudest and sounded best for the frequency range it was designed to play. I ran 4 different ported boxes and never had any port noise. I also ran a sealed box, and it did just fine till I sold the sub that was in it.

As for the Type R being the best bang for your buck, I have to disagree wholeheartedly. There are several subs out there that most people have never even heard of that will far outperform them for around the same money. Again, like Brian said, please search...

Steven Kephart

Are you only considering 10" subs? Because you won't find a sub at any price that will sound better (objectively speaking) than the Shiva-X. Here's the link:

http://www.diycable.com/main/product...1dcf95d468e50e

fourthmeal

More important than the subwoofer is the box you put it in, and the location you install it. Cancellation becomes a major issue, so consider your options based on that truth. I went with two Acoustic Elegance 10's, in a sealed .7 Qtc box, firing backwards. However, in a trunk car it might be a good idea to think about infinite baffle configurations. That's what the factory sub alignment is, after all. The aftermarket can do a whole lot more with IB in this type of car. Another possible solution that avoids cancellation would be a 4th order bandpass that uses the factory sub's opening as the bandpass port opening.

Other alignments like sealed and ported may cancel out in the trunk, at least partially. It definitely depends on where you place the subs, which direction you place them, and the physics correlated. Sometimes, you just have to try a few test locations and see how it sounds. That's what I did before I committed to a design.

andrewcjduong

Thanks for the information. Unfortunately Acura CL's don't have stock sub. Just 2 6x9's and some other stuff.

I decided to go with an Alpine Type-R 12" subwoofer. After hearing it, I found it to be quite good and I only paid $139.99 for it. I also jumped for a Rockford Fosgate Prime R500 amp. The Type-R was rated at 300-600rms and I figured the Rockford would be good enough cuz it was rated at 500rms. I also ordered the rockford amp wire kit along with the Scosche SLC-4 speaker level converter. All ordered from sonicelectronix.com (if anyone had experience from them, feedback would be great) and since I'm located in Ottawa. I figured it'd be cheaper for me to go down an hour to Ogdensburg and pick up the audio equipment at the UPS store then have them ship it over.

I haven't quite decided on a box yet but I think I'll just find one locally. I was thinking of going for a ported since I heard the Type-R ported and seemed really well. I also talked to another guy on YouTube with the exact same setup as what I'm doing and he said he's tried the Type-R with sealed and wasn't too happy. He also told me a capacitor wasn't really needed and that he never really saw dimming in his setup. I also spoke to a BestBuy representative and he told me that I shouldn't worry too much about putting dynamat on. He said if anything, just get the plates.

As for all the parts, is that it? I'm not too sure if I'm missing anything. My biggest fear is wiring the whole thing and I couldn't really find good instructions on how to wire the stock amp. Does anyone happen to have instructions of some sort? I checked the DIY thread and those were really simplex. Sorry for all the newb stuff. I'm really new to stereo.

eggyhustles

You've made a bad choice.

mattastick

1. You're getting your info from bad sources... Go to audio forums, like caraudioclassifieds.org, and search around. You'll find plenty of good info.

2. Eggy's right. You wasted a lot of money... Especially on that Type R. Those can be had a lot cheaper than that... Or you can get a lot better sub for that money.

andrewcjduong

Well I don't want something that shakes the whole car. I just want a decent amount of bass. What are you suggesting then since my whole setup will run me under $400.

fourthmeal

I'll be the voice of reason and say...you didn't buy something bad, you just got sucked into the mainstream audio market and paid more than you could have for the same performance. I personally find the Type R to be a peaky, space-hungry sub but I don't think you "screwed up". I like your amp choice, and I don't hate your sub choice. Would I recommend it to a friend? ...mmm... Probably not my first call.

As I said before, the box design and orientation makes more of a difference anyway. Whatcha going to do there?


I will say that you should probably stop talking to Best buy for advice. They don't know shit, most of them. I wouldn't buy dynamat either, but I would definitely recommend you do your homework (as this site has several threads and many other sites have thousands of threads about deadening.) Fair hint, there are better brands for less money. Raamaudio's bxt II comes immediately to mind, as does Secondskin.

andrewcjduong

Thanks for the information. I can cancel the order since it hasn't been shipped out yet but after reading the site mattastick just sent me, apparently there decent subwoofers and really good when done well. Prices on that site seems really good so I might go ahead and cancel the order and go for something there. I found a decent pair of Fusion's but a bit pricey. I still want a Rockford amp tho.

As for the box, I think I'm going to just put it in and face it sideways? Ported box? No clue yet. I'm going to play around as my trunk seems deep so I'll move around to find the best spot.

mattastick

CACO's a great site to buy stuff off of. OP, any reason for wanting the RF amp? You can get similar if not better performance for a lot less if you keep your eyes open...

As for your budget, I got my whole daily setup (Sundown SA-8, MBQ 4125, Kenwood X993 and all extras) for under $350. It's been metered louder than more than a few setups using a lot more cone area and more power. It's also a perfect setup for my daily listening. Now, if I had a bit more power, it'd also be perfect for 129.9 bassrace competition...

andrewcjduong

I just like the Rockford brand in general since I have it in my other car.

I tried looking around but couldn't really find anything decent/in my price range. Plus I need to have it shipped to the UPS Store in ogdensburg so I can drive over to the NY state and pick it up because shipping and customs to Ottawa, Canada is ridiculous for me.

Would there be any brand in particular I should look out for? I don't know if I'm willing to spend over $400 on sub and amp.

eggyhustles

400?

dcon 12
http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/s...7B47%7DS4.html

Usx 2150
http://cgi.ebay.com/US-Acoustics-USX...item2a083451f9

rest can be used on box

fourthmeal

Nothing wrong with the Prime 500.1. It is CEA-2006 Rated and it is at least an honest amp. I personally would choose a few others before it, but really an amp is an amp is an amp in most situations.

Your idea of testing is the right one. You'll find that if you take notes of how it sounds, you'll find a position that sounds better than the rest. And SMALL movements can make a difference. Take copious notes, listen to the same stuff, not super-loud, just take it in, listen, change, listen, repeat. The other way to do it is to get a decent SPL meter and graph the changes on a rough plot. A little more time consuming but it is more scientific.

FYI you'll probably find that placing the sub closest to the trunk and facing backward will be the best. It sucks for stuffing things in the trunk, but other than that it is the best.

on1wheel01

Jeez then why did you even ask opinions here since you didn't listen at all.

Pretty much you ended up paying more than you had to. You chose a sub that doesnt have the sound quality or output as the others listed like the icon which was cheaper.
We are suggesting you may be happy with your choice but would have been much happier listening to others who know much more about audio than you.
But hey it's your boat u float in it the way u want.
I saw this one coming but didnt say anything. The title should have said hey im new to audio I wanna ask your guys opinions but not listen to any of them.

andrewcjduong

I've heard quite a few over a few days. I recently went over to a car show and the only thing that stuck out to me were the cool green Fusions, Fi's, JL, Memphis, MA Audio. I found that Alpine Type-R's were great for the sound quality and didn't cost a lot. I heard some 10" W7's and they were incredible but I can't afford that.

I checked out eggyhustles suggestions and they seemed nice but they're only rated at 300rms. The Type-R's are rated at like 600rms.

Sorry on1wheel01 but I just didn't dig some of the subs that were recommended to me and and it seemed that many owners with Type-R's were really satisfied so it's not too big of a deal.

As for the sub enclosure. I've pretty much decided to go for ported as many users with the same sub recommended ported and after listening to the same subs in ported, I liked it.

Thanks everyone for helping though.

97BlackAckCL

iTrader: (6)

Fixed

Everyone has a different opinion, Andrew, like you said, a lot of owners are satisfied with Type R's.

Opinions are like assholes, everyone has them, and these guys are very anti-mainstream but that doesn't mean you made a bad choice, just not what some of these guys would have chosen. I hope it comes out sounding how you want and that you enjoy it, because that's all that really matters

on1wheel01

Well hopefully in the end youl be happy. I do suggest having a box built and not just buying one in a store. Also true the type r may sat

on1wheel01

Ahh stupid phone web. The type r may say more wattage but in most cases better built subs can handle way more than rated power and be fine.

andrewcjduong

I understand. The only big reason I went with mainstream is that first off. This is my very first sub hookup in MY very first car meaning that I don't want to get some cheap walmart quality kind since I didn't know much of those smaller brand names and I knew Alpine well since many of my friends have the Type-S and are happy with it.

Also that I'm on a VERY limited budget and have no money for mistakes and I live in Canada which makes it a pain for sellers on CACO to ship and for me to return subs to retails that's why I'm making one trip to NY to pick up everything then that's it.

I went with Rockford as well since my dads car has Rockford amp but his subs aren't the greatest. Probably not the greatest reason but meh.

That maybe true. I know that I'll soon outgrow the Type-R's so there's going to be a chance that I'll have to start researching for names that aren't big. I'm also probably going to buy two 12"s later on once I have a bigger budget.

I have one final just random question. If I wanted to buy another Type-R sub assuming I already have one and the Rockford R500 amp. Will that amp work for both subs or will it be underpowered? The amp is rated at 500rms and the Type-R is rated between 300-500rms

fourthmeal

Silly goose, one of the very best sub makers in the world is right in Canada. CSS!

Oh well. I am going to contribute to this thread a little bit more, and this will be to model up the Type-R in a ported enclosure and graph it for you. Then I'll make a 3D sketch of the box you need to make (or hire someone to make) and that should do it.

Now in your absence I'm going to guess what model # you have but if you can just let me know exactly what it is. My guess is the SWR-1243D

TTYL.

eggyhustles

Damn, dude..if i would've known you were in NY, i would've hooked you up.

I have 2 10" dcons here in a custom ported box + a sundown sae 1200 just waiting to be bought.

fourthmeal

And here we go with stage one. This is a 2.5 cubic foot box. You can "cheat" and go with a smaller box than this as long as you stuff the box with polyfil at the rate of 1.25lbs per cubic foot. If you do this, you can cheat by up to 25-30%. However, what would be even smarter is to keep the 2.5 cubic foot box size, and still poly stuff. This will in effect lower the tuning frequency of the alignment, and improve low end extension just a bit. As this box is designed now, it is bigger than what Alpine recommends and tuned significantly lower without a peak. I hate peaks, so I have eliminated one from your design. Besides, cabin gain will boost your response on its own and the last thing you need is a peak on top of a peak.

Here's the graphs:

This is your frequency response relative to SPL, at 500W


This is your cone excursion at 500W. As you can see, things start to exceed Xmax at about 22hz. You will want to put an infrasonic filter to use, but you can safely use it at 20hz.



This is the port behavior at 500W, it is a slot port with a 13" main height, and 1.5" wide. This slot port will be right at 28" complete. This port is larger than some and the reason is that you simply do not want port noise. Also, I am planning on you upgrading your amp sometime, and this port size will accept much more aggressive power profiles later, without hearing port noise.



Stay tuned, your box is on its way. I have learned a trick with the TL and I hope your CL has the same structure in the trunk. If so, I will be able to design your box so you only need to set up a few cut dimensions.

fourthmeal

Ok, here's the box I designed for you.

mattastick

Lol at Fourthmeal... 19.5" of port area is not all that big, especially for a 2.5 cube box... I personally would've went a lot bigger on the port, closer to 40 sq inches of port area. That's just me though.

eggyhustles

Holy small port

Isn't the rule of thumb 15-16" of port per cube?

mattastick

Yep, eggy, 16 sq inches of port is suggest per cube of enclosure volume for a slot port (anywhere from 8-12 with aeros)... The box that fourthmeal designed has to be tuned stupid low. That looks like around the same port length I used when I built my 36hz box, but I had almost 3 times that port area. That would also explain the very flat response curve.

And to give you an idea how small that port is, you have 1.5 more square inches of port area for that 12 compared to my 8 in .75 cubic feet...

fourthmeal

Its quite simple, really. I judge it based off air velocity ALONE. At the rated power, I'm only hovering around 30.5 meters/sec. Inaudible.

You can LOL at me all you want dude, but in the end this box will perform. Rounded flaring will need to be made at both ends but I figured that would be discussed later.

Also this box is designed with the Alpine Type R in mind, only. Other subs have more excursion and power handling ability, therefore they would not suffice in this box. Although I would say you could push the sub to the 600-800W range before audible port noise occurred. And, because the box is tuned "stupid low" that noise would only occur around, oh.. 24hz.

I stand by this box design. It won't win an SPL competition, but then again I don't play with peaks. Andy W. at JBL gave me sage advice when building boxes for SQ and that is to build as big as you can, tune as low as you can, and EQ out the cabin gain if necessary.

fourthmeal

2.25 x 13 would yield 43.04" of area, but we're also talking a 43" long port. At this point, we can also talk about port resonance. I think people forget this:

My port resonates at 244.18hz, well out of range of a subwoofer.

A port with a 2.25x13 resonates at 158.97hz. Seems a little too close to me. You could possibly deal with this by having a steep crossover, and powerful front mids that can dig deep. IMO, I don't think our OP has such a system.

Thoughts?

mattastick

Ah, yes, there's the difference between you and I. You build for SQ, and I don't mind peaks... I know roughly the sound I will get out of a sub based on enclosure and port size and tuning, just from building as many as I have. I don't worry about port velocity or resonance, because I'm not too worried about it. I guess you could say I'm not as scientific as you, but I've had good results thus far.

But I think you're right, I highly doubt OP has the mids to get down to where that larger port resonates.

andrewcjduong

Oh my god. I am so confused. Lol. I was just going to go with a simple ported prefab box.

This was the one I was thinking of going with...
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...12+-Gray-.html

Or this one:
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...te+VEGS12.html