jlukja

First, a disclaimer. I am not an audiophile. I think the sound system in the TSX is pretty decent. However, I had noticed that the bass sounded a little boomy, the tweeters a little shrill, and I felt that the system didn’t have enough mid-bass. Reading elduderino’s posts about his Avincar speakers sounded like exactly the type of upgrade that I was interested in.

The Avincar speaker kit arrived last week. I installed the 6x9 speakers this past Sunday. I haven't done the door/tweeter swap as I am waiting for the VMax shipment to arrive. I thought I'd post my review of the Avincar 6x9 speakers since some of you are interested in just swapping those out. I'll update this review when the front doors & tweets get done.

SHIPPING:

The 6x9 speakers were packed in their own cardboard box with plenty of packing material. The door speakers and tweeters had their own separate cardboard box also with plenty of packing material. Both boxes were then packed in a larger cardboard box filled with Styrofoam filler.






Installation:

The swap was pretty straightforward. The Avincar speakers are a drop-in, plug-in, swap. Elduderino included some detailed instructions which made it even easier. Two notes: You need to have a short phllips-head screwdriver because the rear window gets in the way when turning the rear screws. I didn't and had to jury rig a way to do it with a hex key, ratchet socket, and philips head bit. The other note is that the grills have tabs on the underside that require trimming and it took me a little while to get those done. Once complete, the swap looks completely stock.










Impressions:

A side-by-side comparison would be more ideal but that will have to wait until I meet up with a TSXer that has the OEM speakers. Working from my memory I notice immediately that there is no more boominess. The bass is much tighter and doesn’t seem to drone on like it did with the OEM speakers. Now I understand when people refer to the bass “hitting” because that is the impression I got. The Avincar 6x9s also seem to play a little lower than the OEMs.

I listened to a number of songs that I am very familiar with and the Avincars passed with flying colors. On the Doors’ “LA Woman” there are 3 instruments that play down low (organ, bass, and drums) and over each other. The Avincars had no problem playing all 3 tightly and accurately and I could distinctly follow each instrument through all the transitions. Same on the Doors’ “Break On Through”. There was no cross colorization I could detect. On the Eagles’ “I Can’t Tell You Why” Timothy B. Schmidt lays down a low, sustained bass that I imagined would give 6x9 woofers some trouble, especially at higher volume. I played it at 24 volume setting on the HU (the comfort limit for my ears) and there was no distortion that I could detect and all the lows were very accurate.

All in all the Avincar 6x9s are a vast improvement over the OEM speakers. They will not play down to where a good 10” or 12” sub will go but I was looking for good, tight, accurate bass at reasonable volume and the Avincar 6x9s certainly delivered.

drewba

Thanks for the write-up and pics. It sounds like our needs our pretty similar, so I'm looking forward to hearing your impressions when the mids and tweeters go in.

GoDucksCLSPride

Great review. Sound is always very sujective so I'm glad our ears agree.

theElio

Hmm... sounds good to me. I'm looking for a speaker upgrade (though I'll most likely get a stealth sub for the trunk as well since I do like a bit of strong tasteful bass as well)
May I ask how much you paid?

SDCGTSX

I don't mind the boomy base or the shrill treble but I HATE that our OEMs have the worst mid level in the world. When I listen to music I want to hear the lyrics and the singer's voice. The stock hides the voices. Can you tell me if the new speakers highlight the voices???

It was even worse in my CLS. Those BLose speakers made out of bamboo shoots and paper mache were sooooo bad.

CJams

Good write up! When I replaced my speakers, before I added an amp, I could hear parts of songs that didn't even exhist prior.

jlukja

The whole kit I'm installing runs $375 and includes two 6x9s, two 5-1/4s, and two dome tweeters. If you're just looking for 6x9 replacements then you should PM elduderino for the price. Here is elduderino's original post with more info: https://acurazine.com/forums/sponsored-sales-group-buys-10/cl-s-tsx-speaker-upgrade-kit-307708/

jlukja

That is what I'm hoping the Avincar front door speakers will do for me. I haven't completed that part of the swap yet. I'll post my impressions once I do. The rear deck 6x9s work like a sub and only get low freq. so they wouldn't really make a difference when it comes to voice.

dark inspire

awesome man!

im just waiting on the 2nd Gen TL kit

Gixxster

jluka,
Where did you buy the vmaz online? If you could send me a link that would be great. Also, thanks for posting the pics of the side by side comparsion. It helped show the difference in the size of the magnets.

jlukja

I actually ordered those through elduderino as well. When I was exchanging e-mails with him about my speaker shipment I inquired about sound dampening and he recommended Vmax. You can also pick it up at Parts Express The price is the same but eldude gave me a break on shipping.

peter_bigblock

Great write-up, jlukja. I'm in the same boat as you, don't want to spend a lot of $$ (big surprise, drain pipe intake) but the stock setup is too boomy-buzzy for me. Sounds like eldude has put together a well-designed relatively low-cost upgrade. I'll add it to the list of stuff my wife thinks is frivolous.

Do you know why there's only one set of 5.25" door replacements instead of two?

jlukja

Elduderino is a proponent of staging and imaging where the soundstage is in front of you. That is best accomplished by the front speakers/tweeters. The rear door speakers will detract from the front stage (unless you have a DVD audio system). In fact, eldude disconnected the rear door speakers in his TSX. Other's like the "in-the-music" or rear-fill sound and replace all four door speakers (see the review by Pilbox ). Also, the F/R fader control will fade the music from front to rear, including the bass (something I did not know until recently). If you disconnect the rear door speakers you can then use the fader control to set the bass output relative to the front stage.

My current plan is to not touch the rear door speakers but to fade the music forward (I currently have my fader set at F+2). If I'm not happy with the bass output at that point then I'll go back and disconnect the rear door speakers and see how I like it. I'm sure elduderino can work with you on a good price for a 4 door speker kit.

BTW, the Vmax arrived the other day so I'm going to attempt the door/tweeter replacement tomorrow.

Lastly, I don't mean to speak for elduderino, I just wanted to answer your question. Eldude, please correct me if I missrepresented anything.

elduderino

YOu explained my position very well - in an adult and reasonable way.

I usually just say that rear speakers suck ass and are a commie plot. Thanks for elevating the discourse... : )

vidgamer

What is the imaging like (with the new front speakers)? On my last car, I ended up inverting the phase of a speaker, and that fixed the midrange.

On another topic, I know that y'all said that the rear door speakers were on the same fader as the 6x9's, but when the wires come out of the amp, is it a separate circuit? If so, I want to try some creative wiring. :-)

Also, if they are too loud for you and fading to the front doesn't work well, you can always put an L-pad type control into the speaker lines.

elduderino

The R doors are on a separate channel from the R deck. The R doors and R deck both derive their input signal from the R otput of the HU.

In theory, you should always try tweeter polarity both ways whenever there is a distance between the mid ant tweet. In practice, we only try it when it seems indicated. Since there is a 6dB on the tweet and none on the mid, there isn't any passive-xover induced phase issue.

vidgamer

Thanks! I'll give it a shot and get back to y'all if it works. And I'll be quiet if it does not.

The issue I had previously was probably the large path-length difference, which can be noticable in the midrange. If you're much closer to the left speaker than the right, the waveforms can be out of phase by the time they hit your ear. (I forget how long a cycle is in the midrange.)

jlukja

Honestly, I didn't intend to do this upgrade piecemeal over a couple of weeks. It just turned out that way.

Just swapped the dash tweeters in my TSX. OEM out, Avincar in. Very easy swap to do. Took me 1/2-hour. The kit comes with everything you need. The instructions provided by elduderino are excellent. Pry the old ones out, unplug, snap on T-taps, plug in connectors, insert new tweeters and you're done. They almost slipped in perfectly but on my TSX the holes aren't exactly centered so I'll have to do a little adjusting later.

The tweeters sound quite bright at the moment. I expect them to break-in over a period of time, just like elduderino said. They do deliver quite crisp highs but I don't get that ringing sensation I was getting with the OEMs. One thing I immediately noticed is that the soundstage is elevated higher up. Voices now come from in front of me instead of down and to the side. Another thing that surprised me is that i could hear drums coming from in front of me. I thought that drums would be handled more by the mids and the 6x9s. I guess thats what people refer to as "imaging". I got a much better sense of instrument placement in the soundstage in front of me.

I only listened to them for a few minutes. I think the Avincar tweeters and front door speakers are a matched set so I'm not getting the full benefit of the improved sound with the OEM speakers still in the doors. Hopefully that swap will take place this coming weekend and I'll complete my review then. In the meantime, I certainly hear an improvement in the highs and I expect that to be even more pronounced when the tweeters soften a bit after break-in.

vidgamer

Interesting. Sounds like Elduderino accomplished his goal of lifting the soundstage.

From what you've said so far, it doesn't sound like there was a reduction in volume. You might try a quick listen after just installing one door speaker just to hear the difference. As long as it can go loud enough, that is, well, good enough! No need for an extra amp. (Of course, I'm assuming that the sound quality of the stock amp is good enough as well....)

CJams

Does the avincar speaker kit come with spacers for the door speakers?

elduderino

It comes with F door spacers that require no new screw holes in the door. In the original post on this thread, in the 3rd photo, you can see the spacers pre-mounted to the speakers.

jlukja

So far, with the rear shelf 6x9 and dash tweeters swapped, there is no difference in volume. I used to listen to CDs at volume setting 15-16 (maybe 17 or 18 on a particularly noisy road) and I still do. I ran the volume all the way to 24 when testing the 6x9s and, to me, it was damn loud. It was significantly beyond the volume level at which I would normally listen. So I have absolutely no issues with the stock amp delivering what I need.


Yes, spacers and a foam/rubber seal where they mate up with the metal.

jlukja

I installed the 6x9 speakers a couple of weeks ago (see first post). The tweeters were installed last week (post 18). The door speakers, along with the Vmax, were installed yesterday. Here is the complete review:

SHIPPING:

The 6x9 speakers were packed in their own cardboard box with plenty of packing material. The door speakers and tweeters had their own separate cardboard box also with plenty of packing material. Both boxes were then packed in a larger cardboard box filled with Styrofoam filler.






REAR DECK 6x9

Installation:
The swap was pretty straightforward. The Avincar speakers are a drop-in, plug-in, swap. Elduderino included some detailed instructions which made it even easier. Two notes: You need to have a short phllips-head screwdriver because the rear window gets in the way when turning the rear screws. I didn't and had to jury rig a way to do it with a hex key, ratchet socket, and philips head bit. The other note is that the grills have tabs on the underside that require trimming and it took me a little while to get those done. Once complete, the swap looks completely stock.








Impressions:
A side-by-side comparison would be more ideal but that will have to wait until I meet up with a TSXer that has the OEM speakers. Working from my memory I notice immediately that there is no more boominess. The bass is much tighter and doesn’t seem to drone on like it did with the OEM speakers. Now I understand when people refer to the bass “hitting” because that is the impression I got. The Avincar 6x9s also seem to play a little lower than the OEMs.

I listened to a number of songs that I am very familiar with and the Avincars passed with flying colors. On the Doors’ “LA Woman” there are 3 instruments that play down low (organ, bass, and drums) and over each other. The Avincars had no problem playing all 3 tightly and accurately and I could distinctly follow each instrument through all the transitions. Same on the Doors’ “Break On Through”. There was no cross colorization I could detect. On the Eagles’ “I Can’t Tell You Why” Timothy B. Schmidt lays down a low, sustained bass that I imagined would give 6x9 woofers some trouble, especially at higher volume. I played it at 24 volume setting on the HU (the comfort limit for my ears) and there was no distortion that I could detect and all the lows were very accurate.

All in all the Avincar 6x9s are a vast improvement over the OEM speakers. They will not play down to where a good 10” or 12” sub will go but I was looking for good, tight, accurate bass at reasonable volume and the Avincar 6x9s certainly delivered.


TWEETERS:

Installation:
Very easy swap to do. Took me 1/2-hour. The kit comes with everything you need. The instructions provided by elduderino are excellent. Pry the old ones out, unplug, snap on T-taps, plug in connectors, insert new tweeters and you're done. They almost slipped in perfectly but on my TSX the holes aren't exactly centered so I'll have to do a little adjusting later.

Impressions:
The tweeters sound quite bright at the moment. I expect them to break-in over a period of time, just like elduderino said. They do deliver quite crisp highs but I don't get that ringing sensation I was getting with the OEMs. One thing I immediately noticed is that the soundstage is elevated higher up. Voices now come from in front of me instead of down and to the side. You definitely can hear the difference between a cymbal and a sung or spoken “s”. In the OEMs they both sounded similar. Another thing that surprised me is that I could hear drums coming from in front of me. I thought that drums would be handled more by the mids and the 6x9s. I guess thats what people refer to as "imaging". I got a much better sense of instrument placement in the soundstage in front of me.


FRONT DOORS:

Installation:
It took me about 3 hours per door, but most of that time was spent installing the Vmax. The door panel removal, speaker swap, and panel replacement would have taken me less than 1 hour per door. I made extensive use of the panel removal instructions from the DIY thread (links below).
http://www.cifrancis.com/acuratsx_sm...20-6_doors.jpg
http://www.cifrancis.com/acuratsx_sm...20-7_doors.jpg
http://www.cifrancis.com/acuratsx_sm...20-8_doors.jpg
Elduderino also includes detailed instructions with lots of pictures. The combination of both was more than enough to get the panels off with confidence. I did not use a panel removal tool and I broke 3 of the plastic clip fasteners (see step 8 in the links above) that hold the panel to the door. I suggest you buy some ahead of time or do this procedure early enough in the day that you can drive to the service department before they close and pick up some if you break them. Here are some pics of the speakers and of the door with the panels off.






Impressions:
Wow. The door speaker swap was the last step and it filled in the sound between the 6x9s and the tweeters. Despite getting great results, as hoped for, from the other speakers I was still a bit apprehensive about downsizing from 6.5-inch to 5.25-inch speakers in the doors. I needn’t have been. The mids and mid bass are amazing. The entire sound spectrum blends seamlessly from the deep lows to the very high highs. The sound is very clear with just the right amount of punch in the mid-range to accompany the tweeters. The entire soundstage is not only raised but seems to spread out wide beyond the confines of the car. On the acoustic version of “Hotel California” from the Eagles’ “Hell Freezes Over” I could hear all the instruments very clearly, and specifically placed throughout the soundstage which seemed to extend beyond the windshield and pillars. I could pick out details that I hadn’t heard before, such as individual “woos” and whistles from the live audience during the song. I could also hear excellent detail on Jack Johnson’s “On and On” where I could hear the reverb of his acoustic guitar in “Times Like These”. The system reproduces voices very well. Both Don Henley and Jack Johnson sounded very real and their voices had presence. For mid-bass and bass I listened to Omar and the Howlers’ “Low Down Dirty Blues” from “World Wide Open”. I heard deep bass I hadn’t heard before. Omar Sykes’ gravely voice as well as the lead and bass guitars were strong and accurate and I could tell the 5.25-inch Avincars were having no trouble handling them. I think the Avincars may be even more efficient than the OEMs. The volume output at 15 seems higher than it was with the OEMs.

Overall, the Avincars are a great upgrade. I highly recommend them. They sound better (maybe even louder), play down lower, and have much better detail than the OEMs.

Tsx536

Great writeup Jlukja!!

Lots of great detail and info there. If I didn't already have upgraded speakers...I would definitely give these a shot!

dark inspire

what an awesome review!

early next year i plan on upgrading my fronts as well as adding an amp, so these are on my list as once to check out.

It looks like we might be having the West Coast Meet in Oregon again this year, so i will definatley stop by if i can to check out Eldude's shop

elduderino

All are welcome (well, almost all : )~

Happy to host and have visitors to my humble little store.

Jlujka, that's a very well-written article, and I'm glad you liked your setup. Great pics - better than mine!

It's a good illustration of the reason that most of us want rear fill - because we always have, since we were kids in the back seat, and we feel like that's "normal".

Well, it's not "normal" - it may be average, but it ain't normal.

Normal is looking at musicians in front of us on a stage.

But anyway, glad they are working so well, and thanks for all the kind words...

Ken

drewba

Thanks for the detailed review and write-up. That pretty much clinched it for me that I want to do this in my car.

The sad thing is that I've been listening to the stock system for about a month now and it isn't bothering me like it used to. I'm getting acclimated to mediocre sound.

So Elduderino, are you going to have more of these kits available soon?

jlukja

As you can see I'm really happy with the upgrade. I've had a couple of members interested in hearing the speakers so the next step will be to see if their ears agree with mine. I'll encourage them to post their impressions in this thread as well.

dark inspire

Im in Sacramento, if i ever come down there, ill let u know!

vidgamer

I already put my order in, so hopefully I can have everything installed in a couple (few?) weeks.

I assume Vmax is like Dynamat? I think I have a small amount somewhere.... Where would be the best place to use it, if you just had a small amount? Around the speaker on the inside of the door?

I guess I wasn't expecting them to be louder/more efficient. I think there is plenty of volume with the stock system, so this is good news (even if it were the same volume). I may want to install one side then try to compare. (Unfortunately, I don't have a sound level meter. I used to, but it died, and I just can't get up the energy to throw money at another one.)

I think if I can get the same volume but with lower and more controlled bass, and (hopefully much) better detail, I'll be pretty happy. I've put "efficient" speakers on aftermarket head-units before, and they just seem... strained. I couldn't believe how much better my Boston Acoustic Pros sounded with an external amp. Elduderino explained to me that the Avincar setup has a more efficient crossover (than what would normally be used in a component set), so that may make some difference as well. Hopefully, this set up will be good enough to not make me want to have to amp it. :-)

I don't plan on taking pictures, but if anyone can think of something that is missing from earlier sets of photos, I can give it a shot.

jlukja

Yes, its similar to Dynamat. You don't need a heatgun however. Where to put it should probably be addressed by a pro, which I am far from. Here's what I did. I had quite a bit of it so I tried to put it on the outside panel. I reached in as far as I could through the openings in the door. I went for coverage to try to quiet down the car. I also put some around the speaker opening and, finally, around the installed speaker to try to "seal" it to the door. If you have just a little you want to use it for its vibration damping qualities. Look for large flat areas that might resonate/vibrate and put some there. Use your knuckle to tap on sections and put some on the ones that sound like they might vibrate.

Any pros out there, please pitch in.

The observation on volume was just my impression. They definitely are as loud as the OEMs. I'd need to do a side-by-side to know for sure. I did one side at a time (passanger side first) and listened to them when only the passanger side was swapped and it didn't sound all that great, maybe a marginal improvement. Only when I completed both sides did it really show improvement.

Lastly, I forgot to mention, elduderino included some sticky foam (sorry, don't know the name or term for it) in my Vmax order and suggested that I apply it where the TSB showed. There is a copy of the TSB posted somewhere here on this board, I just can't find it right now. If you have the door panel off already then its a good time to add the foam tape to the spots indicated in the TSB and minimize the chance that you might get buzzing from the front doors.

slobeatz

Has everyone recieved their kits yet? I've been trying to get a hold of him for information about mine, but haven't recieved a response.

elduderino

Sorry - it's been 95 degrees in the store after 12 noon and we've been getting killed.

Greg, was just getting to your email, and your kit is going out today. That BMW was in our bay for 10 days and we couldn't get anything else done - parts everywhere, no space. I can't wait till we get a bigger showroom (with HVAC!)

slobeatz

Thanks alot for your help eldud. I wasn't aware that you had such a large task with the BMW. Can't wait to get those speakers and hear how they sound!

elduderino

Well, you have my apologies, your speakers should have been out to you before now. They are all packed and ready to go (as are the other set I have on backorder - this will clear the backorders on upgrade kits!).

I didn't realize the BMW was going to be so hard, either. He's very happy (picked it up yesterday) but I didn't charge an amount corresponding to the amount of work... however, he's apparently very active on the BMW X5 forum, and he says we'll get more of these to work on from BMW owners who want a shop that really knows the car... if that happens it will all work out in the end (since we know exactly what to do now!)

If you think you will work on it before the weekend, I will overnight you the kit on Monday. If you won't work on it before the weekend I'll ship them ground - your call. There's one other kit ready to ship to that's prepaid and I'll make him the same offer...

slobeatz

Actually, I'm leaving for cape cod, MA on Wednesday and will be back on Sunday, so it'd would be great if I could get them before I went so I could get a great break in time with them. It's not really that big of a deal though, because I've already told a friend to pick them up from my apt. if I'm away.

elduderino

OK, I will overnight them and they will arrive Tuesday afternoon. A few cups of coffee and you can have them in before you hit the road.

g1underground

iTrader: (1)

Elduderino,
Your mail box is full, is it too late for the group buy?
Right now your speakers are my number one choice for replacements

slobeatz

Great! Should take me about a half hour to do the entire thing. I could probably take those door panels off with my eyes shut at this point. Then I'll have a good 3.5 hour ride to the cape to test them out against the Alpine Type S and Type R speakers that I have now.

elduderino

I'll correct that, thanks.

I have more raw drivers but we have to make the spacers by ahnd and assemble the kits. Won't be able to ship any more orders until later next week.

We are looking at getting the spacers made out of house and reducing the time it takes to make the kits...

slobeatz, have I already emailed you the install instructions?