usdmJON

Anyone looking into the recent subframe tear out on the tl posted recently and talk tp progress about this issue. Dont want to ser anyone damage their subframes.

neveronlineilx

I have been researching it as much as possible and just sent an email to Progress to get their take on the issue or if there is any concerns for the ILX/SI customers.

The bar does come with a brace for the outermost mounting points on the car and I have been scouring the internet for any 8th or 9th gen civics that have experienced the same issue. If I hear anything I will report back, but so far so good on my car and Im on stock suspension wich most believe will make the issue more problematic or occur faster than if on a stiffer suspension, but we will see...

linksmask1

Yeah this issue is also a little disconcerting to me as I'm also on stock springs with just the 22mm bar in place. But that being said, the TL is a much heavier car and the suspension is different so there's a lot of factors/unknowns at play. Does anyone know if our rear subframe is at least the same thickness as the one on the SI?

I'm definitely going to avoid all the bumps/potholes that I can though, as these put extra strain on the bar/subframe/rca etc. Course with the stiffer suspension/less body roll, this task is not only easier but also fun

neveronlineilx

So I talked to progress and they stated they have seen no issues with the 8th and 9th Gen Civics or ILX. YAY!!!! I checked my mounts and they are all still holding up great and endlinks are all good too.

Per my interaction with Progress "8th, 9th gen and ILX all share similar rear sub-frame and mounting locations. We have had our issues with the end link mount (which we now supply a rienforcement plate). We have not seen any issueswith the mounting location or tear out with this bar. This has been a great seller with lots of success."

Regarding tear out he did say "We have found that there has been many causes from loose hardware to incorrect installation to rusted cars and in some cases over loaded mounts".

This is just from me... whenever installing ANYTHING always make sure to put things to TQ specs if the new part does not give them I would really strongly recomend using OE TQ specs. Also it is not a set it and forget it type a deal, when installing parts its a really good idea to double check the parts after some use, a lot of times things will work them self loose during break in periods or after just loosening and re-tightening the bolts (unless using loc-tite then you should be good to go!). I cant tell you how many times I have worked on a car and litterally hold bolts on tower bars, sway bars, Coilovers and etc almost fall off in my hand due to being so loose.

usdmJON

Well the 8th and 9th gen civics aren't old enough to show any subframe tearing. Subframe tear out on a car that knew would have to be from some thick ass racing sways.
I have seen two 3rd Gen TLs seeing the issue... both well maintained tuners so I can say rust and improper installation is not the issue here.
If you do see issues it wont be for years and at that point it will be too late and you'll be out a few hundred in repairs.

I dont mean to belittle what Progress says but a Progress Sway bar was the exact bar that tore through a TL subframe. At I said no 8th or 9th gen civic should be showing wear, its too premature even for the 8th gens at this point. As well, their comment about an overloaded mount is exactly the issue. The mounting point cant handle the load the sway bar is exerting so the subframe tears because its weaker than the mount/endlink.

These issues are not due to improper installation. Not all the time. Torquing to spec is always a must as well as double triple and quadruple checking mods. But a tear out issue can come up half a decade after the installation.

All progress needs to do is create reinforcement plates for behind the thin sheet metal where the links mount to the frame. Just two plates that clamp down on either side of the metal then connect across often in a billet type tie bar. A rear tie bar will help with this issue but unless it is reinforced from behind it wont completely stop it.

usdmJON

Sorry neveronline Im about to thread jack.

I was underneath messing with my subframe while installing the rear tie bar months ago. The metal where the subframe and sway bar bolt up is just as thin as my 1994integra which is notorious for subframe tear out.
Check it out... It is pretty identical to ours but flipped around so you cant see the sway bar... which is why I can't use mounting kit from an integra or older model civic for my ilx.


Obviously we know the gold bracket's with rubber mounts is where the subframe runs through. Which too much force is applied in one direction the weight of the car can sheer those bolts out of the subframe tearing out a chuck with it...
That silver brace makes it so quick force is being exerted across both mounts instead of one.
You can see here

and here

How many braces come with reinforced mounting plates for the inside of the subframe to help with the force exerted on it.

You can see here an ILX subframe


I have not got underneath to see where my sway bar connects but to me the rear subframe looks identical so I assume they connect the same way.

neveronlineilx

Sorry but your pics are incorrect. That is nothing like the way ours mounts unless the 2.0l and the 2.4 are different wich I doubt. See the pic (last one) there are two black brackets being held on by two ten mil bolts? those brackets are what our sway bar center mounts attach to and the outermost part mounts to the endlink.

With EK, EG, DC2 and probably other Hondas and Acuras the mount directly to the subframe where those types of braces would help (next to wear ther control arm mounts)! Ours doesnt mount in that same location and Im sure you could beef up the bracket, but on our car at least by looking at it the endlink and the endlinks mounting point are the two weakest links the mounting brackets that the sway bar mounts to could be suspect too (again just my opinion based on the feedback from progress and from looking at it). If you want to put your car on a lift and then we can discuss theories and stuff of ways to beef up the subframe and tie bar and sway bar mounting points then by all means lets do it. But putting pics of a bunch of different parts from different cars makes it hard to discuss what your showing above because ours is designed differently.

Also I thought the owner of the TL stated he had the bar on there for around 16/18months? I could be wrong but I thought thats what he said.

You also stated it could take half a decade to happen and 8th gens arent that old (they have been out for more than 5 years???) so def should be old enough to have experienced the issue specially with the amount of them running around with sway bars on them?

In the end you can believe what progress had to say or not, Im not going to try and convince you one way or the other. A few days ago you posted to see if anyone seen the TL thread and if anyone talked to Progress so I did and thought I would post their response here.

Just my .02 cents take it or leave it

usdmJON

I dont believe what they have to say. The problem is Progress makes the sway bar... they dont develop the car. They attach their sway bar to stock mounting points that is not intended to take that much force from the stock sway bar.

If it tears out Progress will respond "Track use only for a reinforced track car. Not for road use."

Look at the BMWs issue as well. I understand there are different mounting points the thickness of the metal is being called into play here... not the bracket or the endlinks.

Think about it like this.... they put the sway bar on and it broke endlinks... meaning the metal under the mounts held stronger. Too much force for the endlink is too much force for the sheet metal its bolted too. Its lucky the endlink snaps first. But once you beef up the endlinks all that force is put on the metal behind the mount. You'll keep popping endlinks until its finally the metal that gives.

I may be looking too far into it. Hopefully I am. I just know sheet metal is not a good spot to mount a brace or sway bar too.

got23hops

Hey there, new to the forum. Just got a16 ILX, and I'm wondering if these progress bars have ripped up any other subframes. Let us know!

usdmJON

Im 97% positive no one else bought one for their ILX.

got23hops

haha! Being new to Acura, I'm slightly disappointed by the size of the modder community. Guess we gotta stick together!

for the RSB, I think I'm going to swap in the '15 SI OEM bar. Feels like the safer approach.

carmagnut

I was looking to do the same thing .do you happen to have a part number or numbers? I have searched and scoured but can't seem to figure out if you need the bar, the end links, etc. Basically I dont want to over or under order the stuff. Just want to get the right plug and play parts.

DaIll1

Just happen to have that handy
2014 Civic Sedan SI (Hpt) MT | Rear Lower Arm

carmagnut

Thanks. Now I just have to pick some numbers.