EricL

This is the investigation that was started on 10/28/2002 and closed on 03/05/2003

NOTE: Due to formatting issues, I’ve removed some information from the NHTSA summary.

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ODI RESUME

Manufacturer: AMERICAN HONDA MOTOR CO.
Products: MY 2000-2003 ACURA 3.2 TL/3.2 CL
Population 295026

Problem Description:

THE AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION MAY SUDDENLY SHIFT FROM FIFTH GEAR TO SECOND GEAR, CAUSING MOMENTARY VEHICLE DECELERATION; OR DISENGAGE FULLY, CAUSING LOSS OF MOTIVE POWER

Here are some totals:

Complaints: 165
Crashes/Fires: 2
Injury Incidents: 5
# Injuries: 6
Fatality Incidents: 0
# Fatalities: 0
Other*: 2

*Description of other: ALLEGED LOSS OF VEHICLE CONTROL INCIDENTS

SUMMARY REPORT

In addition to the 165 complaints noted in the Failure Report Summary, American Honda Motor Company (AHM) reported related repairs made under Regular and Goodwill warranty terms, as well as repairs made under a warranty extension program started by AHM in October 2002 (Service Bulletin 02-027). The reported numbers are shown in Table 1 (table not shown).


On October 31, 2002 AHM presented to ODI the findings and results of their investigations into the five-speed automatic transmission used in the subject vehicles. The presentation discussed in the detail the cause of the premature transmission failures, a failure mode where an unprompted and unexpected downshift into second gear could occur, the incidence of this failure mode, and the impact of its failure mode on the operation and control of the vehicle. AHM described its warranty extension program, which extends coverage to 7 years and 100,000 miles. At the conclusion of the presentation, a specially prepared vehicle, which AHM represented could demonstrate the sudden downshift condition on command, was assessed by ODI. The downshift phenomenon was simulated in the vehicle numerous times with a variety of drivers, road conditions, and combinations of throttle application and steering. The effect on vehicle speed and stability were observed to be minimal and of short duration (less than two seconds).

ODI has reviewed related VOQ complaints and AHM’s IR response data (received February 2003) to determine complaint, crash and injury counts. Of the two crash incidents alleged on VOQs, neither resulted in a claim of personal injury. One event was related to a transmission crash allegation could not be reached. AHM reported two loss-of-control incidents that caused minimal damage to the vehicle without personal injury. The five injury incidents reported appear to be related to sudden downshift events; none of the claims involve a crash. One event resulted in untreated neck/upper back pain, one in successfully treated neck/back pain and another in neck/back strains with ongoing treatment (medication). Another claimant who had a significant prior history of spinal problems remains under care for pain, the fifth incident claims unspecified injuries to the driver and possibly one occupant due to dashboard contact.

It is clear that multiple transmission quality issues exist in the subject vehicles. AHM has provided a detailed description of the failure mechanism, causal factors, and failure modes associated with these transmission issues and has implemented a warranty extension program to address consumer concerns.

Based on ODI’s analysis of the failure mode, a thorough analysis of ODI and AHM complaints and driving a vehicle rigged to simulate the alleged defect, a safety-related defect has not been identified at this time. According, this investigation is closed. The closing of the investigation does not constitute a finding by NHTSA that no safety-related defect exists. The agency will take further action if warranted by circumstances.


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ERICL comment (this is the best I could up with at this time):

THE spontaneous downshift is caused when the third-gear clutch pack disintegrates and dumps small particles into the transmission passages. The particles cause a strainer to burst and clog-up pipe filters. The modulator pressure forces a sudden downshift from fifth to second gear.

It would be a smart idea to get the car into the dealer ASAP if you get any of the symptoms that are listed in the letter sent in the warranty extension letter (slipping, flare, whine, so on).

If a dealer does not want to help you get a new/replacement transmission, get their name, and report them so that others can be wary of them. IMO, it would help to have a reticent/”problem” dealer sign their name to a document that states that they believe they don’t need to replace your transmission.

PLEASE LOOK at the BOLDED section at the end of the SUMMARY. IF THERE ARE MORE INCIDENTS, THE CASE COULD BE REOPENED. (USE THE NHTSA website and 800 numbers.)

Nashua_Night_Hawk

Thanks for the summary... Now the BIG question, if AHM knows what is exactly the problem... Was NHTSA satisfied with the "fix" and why those who replaced their trannt after October 2002 are still having tranny failures ( Is this Okay with NHTSA? )... What about the new ECU replacemetnt?

And those tranny replaced after Jan 1st 2003 are defect free?

EricL

I got the impression that there were a NUMBER of problems.

If you are referring to the cause of the 5th to 2nd downshift -- yes, they "seem" to know what happens.

I have not finished with this and its about time and money -- OK?

Forget about after Octorber 2002.

Think and judge more on what happens after Jan/Feb 2003. I don't know for sure, but the change of the ECU "seems" to be a milestone (I'm talking about "dating" the fix by seeing if someone got the new ECU with the upgraded tranny). Any problems that happen after this latest mod would be worth noting (and I'm not talking about less punch or chirping).

It someone is badly hurt in one of the cars with the new tranny, I would like to know about it. The NHTSA surely needs to know about it!!!!

The general idea I gleaned was: Acura was ahead of the NHTSA on the fixes (well, at least at the time of the investigation) and they are replacing lots of different parts. “Quality” came up more than once (you've seen the comments) and this is a bit vague. However, the failure rate -- as reported to NHTSA and Acura seem very small as a failure rate. A total of 200 complaints?

The TL/CL warranty claims by warranty type per model year are:

2001 11, 127, 435
2002 1, 66, 310
2003 0, 6, 12

Defect free? You mean that some person could never make a mistake. I sure wouldn't go that far.

The clutch pack material has been improved and quality control and other parts have been improved, but I don't have all the data. I’m still on this…

Nashua_Night_Hawk

Please could you explain these numbers?

EricL

The fax is blurred and impossible to read at the top of each column (i.e. the column headings are unrecognizable). I can hazard a guess

I believe the columns are related to:

Column x (#3 ??): Repairs made under regular warranty
Column y (#2 ??): Repairs made under goodwill warranty
Column z (#1 ??): Repairs made under the new 7/100 extended warranty.


If you must know ASAP, you can go to the NHTSA web site and pay the $38.50 per 1/2-hour rate (for gathering up documentation). There is a per page fee depending on various factors...

There is a thread in CarTalk that has the NHTSA link and forms to fill out.

heretik

I know that this is an old thread but i just wanted to know something about this whole thing. With acura replacing the transmissions in the CL with "better quality parts" do we as CL owners just have to wait until our tranny goes out to have these parts replaced or is it handled more like a recall where you just bring in your car to get the equipment replaced or fixed?

Bulldog01

I know this is old, but I haven't been to the tranny section in a while. Funny that only 11 claims of repair to '01s under regular warranty have been reported. I reported mine, and I find it hard to believe only 10 others have... The 2nd repair was under the extended warranty, I suppose.

bkknight369

I reported mine under regular conditions

I though the '03's were absolutely free of the fuk up...guess i was wrong

horsepowercrzy18

i have an 03... what do you mean by problems with the 03?

YeuEmMaiMai

the 01-mid 05 cars use the same trans, there were various fixes implimented for the 04+ models and the late 05-08 models have a redesigned case... I got a new one this year at 70K and that thing is still a pos.......and I am at 76K