Crashmaster

I’m not here to step on toes or crush anyone’s dreams about obtaining better MPG or more horsepower by using a K&N air filter or a CAI (Cold Air Intake).. I am only presenting another side to the OEM vs. K&N air filter debate.

The fact is that most street racers along with many commercial and industrial applications utilize some sort of oiled-media air filter. In working with industrial generators and military applications, most have some sort of oil bath air filter or pre-filter application. But is this what is needed on a street application? Does specifically a K&N air filter or CAI provide better filtration? Does a K&N air filter give you more MPG? Will a K&N Air filter give you more horsepower? Let’s discuss it.

It’s obvious that people will spend anywhere from $50 to $450 for a K&N air filter all the way up to their High Performance Air Intake Kits on the belief that it will increase MPG and horsepower. Keep in mind that the auto manufacturers are aware of the K&N air filters and have a much much more extensive research laboratory than K&N, and not one auto manufacturer installs a K&N air filter in their vehicle. Not ONE! In this MPG and horsepower war from one vehicle to another, wouldn’t a car manufacturer want to increase its MPG and horsepower by simply installing a K&N or some very similar style air filter? This had me puzzled and actually kept me awake at night. Yes, these are the things I think of in my sleep. This is troubling (yes troubling that I dream about air filters too). Not ONE manufacturer believes that a K&N air filter will increase MPG or Horsepower!!!

I’ve read probably thousands of threads of people who installed K&N air filters or CAI’s and some claim 10% better MPG and more power. Others claim identical MPG and the ‘SOUND’ of more horsepower, but no real HP benefit. Seems nobody can really state what is happening with the air filter. Are K&N owners having buyer remorse after spending $50 to $450 and just claiming they are getting better MPG and Horsepower to justify this expense?

Why isn’t there an absolute test, to test an air filters efficiency? Well, there is. It is called the ISO 5011 test. If you want to test your Purolator, Baldwin, AC, K&N, or AMSOIL air filters it will cost you about $1700 per filter, to send them in and have them tested. For that price you would have real data about your filter. These ISO 5011 machines cost upwards near $300,000.00.

The ISO 5011 standard (formerly SAE J726) defines a precise filter test using precision measurements under controlled conditions. Temperature & humidity of the test dust and air used in the test are strictly monitored and controlled. To obtain an accurate measure of filter efficiency, its very critical to know exactly the amount and size of test dust being fed into the filter during the test. By following the ISO 5011 standards, a filter tested in England can be directly compared to another filter tested in California. The ISO 5011 filter data for each filter is contained in two test reports. Capacity efficiency and flow restriction.

Without boring you about how the test works, suffice to say they add a controlled amount of dirt to the filter while monitoring its flow capacity. They also monitor the amount of dirt passing through the filter. Various filters were tested being the: AC Delco, Purolator, Baldwin, K&N, and AMSOIL.

Comparing the AC Delco (rated the best from the test results) to the K&N: The AC Delco filter test ran for 60 minutes before reaching its max restriction while the K&N and AMSOIL filters each ran for about 24 minutes before reaching their max restriction. Another interesting bit of information is that the AC Delco accumulated 574 gms of dirt and passed only 0.4 gms. After only 24 minutes the K&N had accumulated 221 gms of dirt but passed 7.0 gms of dirt. Comparing the K&N to the AC Delco the K&N plugged up nearly 3 times faster, passed 18 times more dirt and captured 37% less dirt. The AC Delco filter which passed the smallest amount of dirt and had the highest dirt capacity and efficiency but also had the highest relative restriction to flow. Obviously the better filtering media is also the most restrictive.

Have you tried taking a K&N air filter right out of the box and compared it to an OEM air filter? Try holding them both up to the light? Which has larger holes that you can see light coming through? It will be the K&N. Get out your magnifying glass and examine both filters again? You can actually see the small holes and gaps in the K&N. Dirty air can get through these holes. Also, try typing into GOOGLE the words ‘K&N Scam’. You don’t get one or two sites, but you get the Corvette Forum, Audi Forum, Nissan Forum, Chevy Forum, Suzuki Forum, BMW Forum, Jeep Association, Ford Ranger Forum, and on and on and on, well, I stopped after 50 pages of this. There were actually 1.66 million results.

Think logically for a moment. Your engine needs the correct amount of air and gas for combustion to happen. An air filter is not a turbo or super charger and cannot force more air into your engine. To be honest, when studying the K&N website and their research, the visions of the infomercials of the Tornado air intake that PROMISED more HP and more MPG popped up in my head. You can still purchase these Tornados on the Internet, but please don’t.

Your engine needs filtered air with as little restriction as possible. That’s a difficult balance to obtain as all air filters start to restrict air flow the more they accumulate dirt. I really have to believe that people on this forum most likely check their air filter a bit more often than others. Can this filtration be achieved with an OEM paper filter? Acura and ALL the other car manufacturers believe so. Do you think Acura wants their engines being damaged by a cheap air filter?

Many people will install a CAI (Cold Air Intake) on the belief that cold air will give more horsepower to their engine. Most CAI’s that I have seen for the 3.5 liter engine shove the actual filter into a small space on the drivers side of the engine bay. Will this really give you colder air than the OEM air box? No, it won’t.

I’m going to stick with the OEM or perhaps an AC Delco air filter. I cannot find any justification for spending $50 to $450 to upgrade to something that not only does not benefit my stock engine, but there appears to be logical rationale not to use it. Acura believes so too. If I spent $450 on a K&N high performance air intake kit, and then spent hours more on the installation, I might become defensive by this article. I’m not looking for an air filter thread battle, but just presenting another view. It’s likely that people with K&N air filters wash them frequently which would minimize the amount of passing dirt. Likewise, the K&N high performance air intake kits do give a stock engine a much more aggressive look when you pop the hood to show off your engine.

Logically, how can adding a K&N air filter ADD more HP? Or give you better MPG when comparing a new K&N to a new OEM air filter? They both pass the same amount of air to make up the 14.7-1 air fuel ratio your vehicle needs. It makes no sense and therefore falls into the same category as the Tornado above.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

TL;DR
- stick with OEM.


p.s. you could have said all of that in 3 words.

NBP04TL4ME

Wow!

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

did you read it!?

i quit after 2 paragraphs of the same yada yada yada

NBP04TL4ME

I did - there is a lot in there. Almost disappointing ending

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

its almost like he copied and pasted it from an article on the web because of the key words being bold

Filter

NBP04TL4ME

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

we need a filter to filter through that long story book

NBP04TL4ME

Nice!!!

thoiboi

Comic Sans.. reallly ?

Crashmaster

I am the moderator on the Honda CrosstourOwnersClub.com site and just traded in my 2012 Honda for a 2015 TLX last week. Both these vehicle utilize virtually the same 3.5 liter engine.


Upgrading to a K&N or CAI is a very common upgrade and just thought that TLX owners might find this interesting which I wrote for the Honda Crosstour owners a while back.

Stew4HD

This topic has been covered and when you do a side by side, the cost of the cai/filter gains you nearly nothing in HP or $ savings

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

it's long winded that's all.
if you could condense the major points without being repetitive, you could sum it up in like 1 paragraph.

believe me, i've written out what you have said over and over and over again.


also, you'll have to look at the majority of the TLX buyers. most are not ricers.
Most do not want to mess with their cars, they just want to get in and go and enjoy the luxuries

Stew4HD

And some want to look good doing it

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

glad you got rid of the 4G

Stew4HD

Ouch! I did like the wheels on that one

keith7120

I hav and K&N filter but I only bought it so the dealer would leave me alone about replacing my filter while getting my free oil change! Now, they just clean it out. There has to be some savings in that over time or I could just leave the dirty filter in there a bit longer I suppose. In addition, why would a car maker spend those extra bucks on 100's of thousands filters at that price? There is a reason for OEM, its cost effective.

BEAR-AvHistory

K&N has been riding old technology for a long time. Most people can't accept the fact that a stock engine can't exceed the flow capacity of the factory filter.

Back in my bad old days I rode a factory CAI/airbox & paper filter in a lightly tuned 335is to 12.2ET @ 116mph quarter mile.

mapleloaf

And some are unfamiliar with the term Ricer as it applies to cars. Thanks for improving our urban slang "vocab". You are correct in assuming that "ricing" a TX is a little out of step with most TLX owners.

fsttyms1

I run a K&N filter on my car. It does save me money. When i drive anywhere from 50-100k miles a year its nice to be able to take the filter off, wash it and oil it every 3 months and stick it back on vs having to spend 15-30 bucks for a new one

fsttyms1

Problem is is you cant really dyno a cai's effectiveness. A car sitting on a dyno with a fan blowing on it cant reproduce the moving airflow of the vehicle or the high and low pressures created. Also you cant just look at a graph on a screen from a dyno. There is more to it than just a peak number which is far too often all that is looked at by most. There is a whole lot to what happens under that peak number that can effect driveability and overall performance/feel. CAIs also help (while moving) to keep the the intake manifold temps lower (reducing heat soak) which does have impact on overall performance/efficiency (not something anyone will notice by their butt dyno) Now not all cars are the same and all will have different results, especially modern cars with the more and more advanced ECUs being able to fine tune and adjust engine parameters so much better and finer, but having a live data reader one could watch IATs and timing (amongst other things) to see what its doing (especially before and after to really tell) But that is just my

BEAR-AvHistory

^^^^^
Agree the dyno numbers are pretty meaningless unless you are selling CAI's That said I ran a lot of data logs when I was beta testing the JB4 modifications for the 335is series.

Did not see anything of significance between the BMW stock system & the DCI most commonly used on the cars up through 410whp. That was a 90whp spread over the factory stock car so there is a lot of headroom before the factory systems start to become restrictive.

This would suggest that for stock or lightly modified cars the non-factory systems do make a nice sound but that's pretty much the end of it.

JonfromCB

But they're guaranteed to perform poorly for millions of miles if you spend hours cleaning them properly, letting them dry properly, oiling them properly and checking them regularly so they are serviced when they need to be. It's also a safe bet that the increased performance claims are based on a new K&N compared to the worst underperforming OEM they could find at the end of it's service life. The increased performance claim is essentially a claim that could be made with any fresh filter.

Hoosier_TLX

Wow, that was a lot of reading! I read the entire post and I guess I'll just say that maybe I'm naive, but I would hope that Acura (or any other manufacturer) would put the best filter in when they sell the car. I've used aftermarket filters and even a CAI for other vehicles, but I never really saw any gains of any type.

slats

I have definitely noticed better throttle response with an SRI but very little if any real gain in power. I like intakes for the sound, plain and simple. It's much cheaper than doing an exhaust which would run the risk of sounding ricey, plus it's not even noticeable until you are heavy footed.

This thread is both lengthly and offensive to those of us who have spend hundreds on intakes! 😜

BEAR-AvHistory

slats

*spent. Sorry.

^^^^my whole point. And for some, the sound is well worth the money. Re-usable filters are much better for the environment as well, so that's just one more reason to go that route.

LaCostaRacer

^ Most people will change the air filter every 30k miles and that will mean 1-3 filter changes per owner. The cabin filter is larger in size and needs replacement more frequent so I don't buy the significance of a K&N saving the environment when the paper filter is mostly paper with a little rubber around the edge.

I had K&N filters in my past cars but stopped after reading the reports about how bad the filtration really was compared to a standard paper filter.

Even washing the k&n filter took planning because you need to allow the filter to dry before reoiling it and that can take a few hours depending on weather conditions- much simpler replacing with another paper filter and less money for typical driver. A K&N costs $30-50 while the better paper filters are $10-15 so you'll need to own your car for a number of years before you will actually save any money and then you're hurting the engine with more dirt getting by so there's no actual savings.

Crashmaster

Many people have said that they want more sound out of their vehicle and by moving to a CAI or K&N, they can get it. Well, there is a much easier and cheaper way to get the same, and even better sound.

If all you want is the SOUND of a fast car; there is a new device called a SoundRacer. Why stop at an Acura V6 sound? Why not an Acura TLX with a V8, V10, or even a V12 sounding engine? You can purchase this device that plugs into your cigarette lighter and by tuning the radio to the correct FM frequency, it will mimic your vehicles RPM and shift points and make you think you are in a 700 horsepower TLX. Turn the volume on your radio up as loud as you want and you won’t bother your neighbors. You can see a great demo on this $50 product at:

http://www.gizmag.com/soundracer-v8-video-review/14019/


ThisSoundRacer is much cheaper than a CAI or modifying the exhaust and will give you much more and better sound. If you did add a CAI and change the mufflers at a cost of around $800, what happens when you get tired or it? Or you want to change it back? Or you wife wants to start driving the car? Or your neighbors complain about the noise? No problem with the SoundRacer, just unplug it from the cigarette lighter.

fsttyms1

If it really was that bad do you think they would still be in business? People have said the same thing about Fram oil filters. I have been using both for well over 1 million miles of driving and have never had an engine issue (and i go 15-20k miles between oil changes). we are talking micron levels, hell id bet larger amounts come thru your fuel system than get allowed thru the air filter or oil filter. K&N also makes dryflow filters that dont require oiling, and washable cabin filters too.

Crashmaster

If they were any good; even just slightly better, wouldn't an OEM be using it? Not one OEM uses a K&N. The Research and Development departments are much more sophisticated at the OEMs than at K&N.


Sorry you spent on a K&N, but best to switch back and not wait for an engine failure.

slats

^a voice of reason! Thank you! Lol.

Crashmaster, you can mock those who appreciate more sound from their engines all you want. Go buy a full hybrid if you want a near silent driving experience.

To argue that if K&N (or similar) filters are the best that they would be standard OEM equipment is absurd. Following that rational I guess one could say that if Brembo brakes were good they would be standard equipment as well... Give me a break.

Also, I strongly disagree that a vehicle's engine is fully optimized from the factory. If this were the case you would not see proven (and felt) gains from intake/headers/exhaust work. They are tuned with emissions in mind and the factory air systems are designed (most of them) to keep sound levels down. There are performance cars (certain special edition Mustangs come to mind) that do come equipped with an open element intake systems.

1Louder

Just my , but it would have helped to start off with that. Helps with the context. I half expected it to be an advertisement trying to sell me some kind of wonder filter.

That said, I ran a K&N in my TSX for years and aside from just the "feel good" of having the filter there was no noticeable change in driving experience or mileage. I've always felt that there is so much variability in what impacts MPG that to isolate a .3 or .4 MPG difference due to a filter is nearly impossible outside a laboratory. And I challenge anyone to say they can feel a 2-3 HP change with their right foot.

MonsterZero

New guy here! I agree with you. OEM parts are not always best. Aftermarket companies like Brembo and K&N specialize in what they do and they do it well. They have been in business for a long time and know the deal. OEM parts are typically lowest bidder.

MonsterZero

OEM typically source parts from the lowest bidder. it's not about better it's about who is the cheapest.

MonsterZero

I would hope that too. In a perfect world the factory would only use the best parts. Sadly, that is not the case. These are mainstream cars. Not hand built exotics. OEMs source from the lowest bidder.

1Louder

Not always. I'm going to speculate that our 3.5L V6 engine is several thousand dollars, very specifically tuned and engineered to deliver the desired mpg and hp. Acura is not going to risk that in any way, shape or form over the difference between a $10 and $15 part. They won't sacrifice 1 hp or .5 mpg over that.

What we likely have is the lowest cost part that meets the minimum specifications needed to guarantee the hp, mileage and engine life they are expecting. Which means its just fine.

On the other hand, if a $30 filter increased hp by even 2 and maintained or improved mileage in any way, they'd be OEM. That's nothing to spend given how important the hp and mpg attributes are.

MonsterZero

Sure. I see what you're saying. I think OEM go with paper filters to make a few bucks in the long run at service time:chuckle. I like K&N filters because they are reusable and long lasting. I inspect my vehicles monthly and do all my own services. I don't mind cleaning the filter and such. Horsepower and MPG increase? I've never tested any of my cars so I can't speak on that. CAI? I agree with you whole heartedly. They are just noise makers. They do sound cool tho...

1Louder

^ I still have a K&N in my TSX for many of the reasons you stated. I don't mind doing the work and cleaning it now and again. I get a good laugh at what the dealership wants to charge me to replace one...

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

its like people forget the 5 W's of writing.
Who, what, when, where, and sometimes Why.


seriously tho, his big story book could have been condensed into 2 sweet paragraphs and would have gotten the point across much sooner, but I digress.