pyrodan007

Not to mention the countless unhappy 2015 owners that have flat out given up on Acura, and counting now that transmission was flagged as faulty (hurts big time, even if not affecting everyone).

kurtatx

I can't understand why Honda punished the big spenders with that horrible ZF8. Their DCT is much better and they only gave it to the 4 cylinder

WheelMcCoy

Honda / Acura's golden period was in the early 1990s. I spotted this poster at a ski lodge; they used to sponsor tennis as well as F1. Wow, did Acura take too many wrong turns.

MAGA! "Make Acura Great Again!"... um... nevermind I said that.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

it's the same with some of these tech companies.
why change a feature that made the software so great in the first place?
why alienate the user base?
you're talking about hundreds of thousands of people...

I do like how you phrased it.
punished and tortured!

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

Acura NSX: The Everyday* Super Car.



*Not for the EveryMan

fiatlux

To be fair, the ILX sucked because it was built on one of the worst Civic platforms in the last couple of decades. I for one would have been curious to see what they could have done by building on the awesome 10th gen platform.

kurtatx

Right. And it lacks any differentiators from a Civic when you get right down to it. Didn't it originally ship with cloth, too? What the heck is the differentiator?

fiatlux

If we compare the base ILX to the top-of-the-line EX-L model, it has a 8 speed DCT instead of a CVT, a more powerful engine, dual zone climate control (vs single zone), power driver seats with 2 memory positions (vs no memory), power passenger seat (vs manual), tire pressure sensors, and probably some other stuff. It's moderately fast vs an econobox Civic, and feels kind of premiums (vs straight up economy, even in the range-topping Civic). Seems like reasonable differentiation.

The problem is that the 9th gen Civic set a bar SO LOW that even with this stuff, the ILX feels like a poor man's Acura. I honestly think the 10th gen Civic is better than the current ILX, which makes me think the next ILX would be substantially better than the current one.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

but we never get that far. sales dont even take off, so they cant even fall.
then, it's back to the drawing board.

a decade of this!

svtmike

Dammit I can't even come into an ILX thread and read positive things about the TLX.

Darksyne

TL's sold well since the 2nd gen. They were pushing out 60 to 70 thousand TL's a year from 1999 to 2007.
TL sales halved because of the recession and that god awful beak design gave it a double whammy. If only Acura realized their mistake and immediately fired the designers in 2010 and picked up Peter Schreyer instead of Hyundai, then maybe they would have the success that Kia/Hyundai are having right now.
Imagine the current Stinger being the new TL type S instead?

MSZ

Acura's problems go way deeper than this. Even Schreyer won't save Acura because the heads in Honda Japan simply refuse to give them a longitudinal platform to work with. (Volvo being the sole exception, they are able to give their cars great dash to axle ratios to create a traditional RWD-like side profile)

financedude

https://www.kia.com/us/en/vehicle/stinger/2018/overview

fiatlux

The problem is that a concept like Acura makes perfect business sense, but it runs counter to the main philosophy of Honda: affordable, economical, reliable, efficient. Honda's ethos is to do more with less, but a luxury car customer doesn't want more with less; they want more more more. To Honda, nobody rationally needs a V8 when a V6 is perfectly adequate, but what they seem to ignore is that the idea of a luxury car isn't completely rational to begin with. With that in mind, it's not surprising that Honda begrudgingly allows Acura to exist, and is also why Acura tends to be more conservative than other luxury automakers because they can't afford to take a gamble and end up with a dud. As much as the ILX has been panned, people still bought them, and I can't imagine it cost Acura a whole lot for development and tooling given how it was a parts-bin special.

financedude

I think most people perceive Acura is more of a "nicer Honda" than a true luxury brand. Maybe I am wrong, but almost noone I know thinks of Acura like they do about Lexus or Audi. Whether that's a philosophical thing coming from Honda or Nissan I am not sure. At the time Acura WAS a big risk for Honda, much like Lexus was a big risk for Toyota and Infiniti for Nissan. It turned out decent for all parties, they sold enough to keep the brand going. Now Hyundai is taking a calculated yet somewhat big risk trying to make Genesis a standalone luxury brand. I think they will make it work, but we have to wait and see..............

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

the people that bought the '15-18 TLX's will disagree with you.

cue angry mob any minute now

fiatlux

I bought a TLX and, having owned various Lexus/BMW/MBs, I agree that Acura is more of a premium car than a luxury car. It really is a nicer Accord, but is that such a bad thing?

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

I don't think so, but then again, I didn't spend close to $43-45k for one.
the problem is; is $43-45k worth an entry level premium car?
is there any value in there?

fiatlux

Nope, which is why dealers are discounting these cars quite heavily. If you ain't getting at least $5K off of the sticker price, you're doing it wrong .

pyrodan007

It also comes down to some loyals that don't really shop the current market before getting another Acura. I'll admit I was one of them, should have done more research. But in no way I expected the TLX to be so different from my past TLs, just more tech. Didn't help that my test drive had an almost empty tank of gas, should have driven more. But what can you do, it happened... was blinded by the 5k discount.

Greekjim

Same with me. The tlx was my third Acura and will be the last one for a long while now. Not cause I love it so much but it put me off towards the acura brand

financedude

Hey, I bought an MDX over an RX-350....lol

financedude

No, not bad at all, I owned 2 Accords, a 2003 and a 2011, before I bought my 2014 Hyundai Azera Limited. My wife drove her Odyssey EX-L for 11 years, and she just got a 2017 MDX with tech package, love the car. Lexus was $3000 more with NO 3rd seat, and the Q7 and Mercedes and BMW were all $12,000 to $15,000 more. Of course, I am hoping the MDX is as reliable as our previous Hondas.....sometimes on here you begin to second guess yourself...... I DID buy an extended warranty on the MDX, which I normally never do, because the 9 speed transmission and all the standard safety features are expensive to fix (according to my independent mechanic, who worked at Honda for many years).

financedude

Depends on the person, I guess. I was at a higher end used car lot and saw a 2014 Lexus GS350 F sport with 31,000 miles for under $24500, I wish I needed a car, it just grabbed my ass and shook me and said "BUY ME"!!!! I know most on here don't think Lexus is sporty, but this thing was midnight black and mean........ That car had to be close to $50K new. Would I rather have that over a TLX with the same miles and price? HELL YEAH!! lol.....

losiglow

iTrader: (1)

I think the '12 TL is a pretty good leap from the Accord, having driven both of them. But I don't know that I'd buy it new. It's only worth it to me at used prices. It's literally the only Acura sedan I'd care to own right now short or the Hybrid-sport RLX. Or maybe a Blue 07-08 TL-S MT6 with black interior

financedude

I can't argue with that logic!!

Greekjim

That’s what I got to replace my tlx, ‘15 gs350 f sport about a month ago

financedude

How do you like it? Looks like a screamer!!

F23A4

oh stop! I have a 16 V6 and agree with that statement, as I’m sure many of us do. I wanted a nicer and more sporty version of the Accord V6 sedan and that’s pretty much what I got. At 22k, I have zero complaints thus far.

Having been a Honda buyer since the late 80s (probably one of the few here who’s owned a 1G Accord), my observation is that Acura has never strayed too far from its Honda roots (excl NSX)....even though some brand nostalgists romanticize otherwise. (Toyota and Nissan did a better job of separating themselves from their pedestrian brands with the LS400 and Q45)

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

^case in point.
F23A4, I'm playful in nature. I didn't really mean it.

Saintor

You have no business being a moderator here.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

moderators are people too! (with opinions)

financedude

You make valid points. IMO, the Legend was a car ahead of its time. My buddy had one with a manual and that thing was quick......

svtmike

Agreed. Justin, you have 30 days to acquire an Audi or BMW.

financedude

rotflmao!!!

BEAR-AvHistory

Either that or agree to agree with him 100% of the time. Repeat 5X "Always drive in Sport+ because the other modes don't work" till it becomes muscle memory.

F23A4

No worries. The ‘oh stop’ comment I posted was just after I literately LOL’d. (Drew some nasty stares from my fellow train passengers at the time.)

kurtatx

You can't drive around like an idiot in first gear in Eco mode.

Rocket_man

The DCT was not rated for the torque of the V6. If they had put the 8ZF in the TLX it might have been a completely different (ie better) car, but they put the 9ZF which sucked ass. The 9ZF ruined an otherwise fine car. But idiot management is ruining Acura.

pyrodan007

Anyone know the max torque for the 8dct? Could it be that it needs to already be redesigned to handle the new 2.0+ turbo engines? Stupid decision to this day to not make it stronger.