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Wanting to slightly lower the wagon but don't want to sacrifice the ride quality, as it tends to be a family hauler. Heard coilovers are the way to go but don't see any available specifically for the wagon.
Has anyone experienced saggy-ness due to the wagon's heavy rear end?
I'm thinking about purchasing the Tein Advance coilovers as those seem to be on a majority of TSXs.
The Tein Street Advances would serve you well as far as preserving ride comfort and, getting some kind of a performance increase.
They also last for quite a while. I've seen sets come through the shop that have been on cars for 4+ years, and I've spoken to a guy who had the Basis on his TL for 11 years; he ordered another set.
I really don't think there is such a thing as beating Tein for the price, the do a pretty good job. I've seen a lowered wagon or two on here so I know it's been done, but I'm not sure on how much (or if) they'll sag. I called Tein to get their input on settings and such since this sparked my interest, but it seems they're out of shop today.
The rear is limited in height. If you don't mind being pretty low...then they're fine. Raised all the way up, the rears drop the car like 1.5" from stock.
I had a set of CNC'd spring spacers made. I only wanted to lower the car between 0.5 and 1".
Ride quality, however, is fantastic. I had to use quite a bit more damping force than Tein specified. But..thats just a matter of clicking the adjuster to where you like it.
I have 2 sets of SA's. Neither one has sagged. Tein advertises their springs as being incredibly resistant to sagging.
As long as you properly clock all the bushings while installing these...there should be no noteable change in height. Maybe 0.25" after the springs are used for their initial 500 miles.
As a person who uses his wagon for exactly the same reasons, don't do Tein SA. ^ Highest settings.
Had them on my waggon and here were my dislikes.
-To low. While the front can reach moderate drop levels and has a huge range of height adjustability, the rear does not. All I wanted was a mild drop all around and got 1.5-1.75. While not terrible, it was to low for my taste.
-They are way to soft. If you want any firmness you'll need to be on two clicks from firm. Pretty useless damper settings.
Personally I recommend going with either ST or Tein Flex Z. One, they offer way more ride height adjustability. Two, they come with better dampers which make the most impact on ride quality.
^Lol... but I told you all those things about the SA.
nobody ever believes me :'(
The KW ST's are *alright*. I reviewed them well. But, I would, hands down, prefer the Tein SA for this car.
The ST ride quality isn't as good.
The corrosion proofing is nowhere near the same league.
The plastic upper spring spacers are a bad idea. They're plastic up front and aluminium in the rear (?!?!?!??!).
I think I'm running the Teins in our wagon at like -3 and -4 clicks. So....yes, way higher than Tein's recommendation. The car felt like a marshmallow sitting on a trampoline, sitting on an air mattress at Tein's recommendations.
I also had to use (make) 1.25" tall spring spacers AND run the rear spring all the way up. I have never gotten coil bind yet on big bumps. Mathematically, I *shouldn't" ever get coil bind. So...fingers crossed.
I called them about the issue with rear height. They do offer longer thread collars and/or 330LB springs to remedy the issue.
I'd choose longer thread collars and tons of preload on the stock 280LB springs.
Flex Z is a good idea on paper. You will need to do quite a bit of work (relatively) on setup. If you're not suspension savvy, you will set them up badly...and it will ride badly. The manual's recommendations usually have you either fully riding on the bumpstop, or damn close. If you are down for an adventure, a full body coil like the flex will serve you well.
^Lol... but I told you all those things about the SA.
nobody ever believes me :'(
The KW ST's are *alright*. I reviewed them well. But, I would, hands down, prefer the Tein SA for this car.
The ST ride quality isn't as good.
The corrosion proofing is nowhere near the same league.
The plastic upper spring spacers are a bad idea. They're plastic up front and aluminium in the rear (?!?!?!??!).
I think I'm running the Teins in our wagon at like -3 and -4 clicks. So....yes, way higher than Tein's recommendation. The car felt like a marshmallow sitting on a trampoline, sitting on an air mattress at Tein's recommendations.
I also had to use (make) 1.25" tall spring spacers AND run the rear spring all the way up. I have never gotten coil bind yet on big bumps. Mathematically, I *shouldn't" ever get coil bind. So...fingers crossed.
I called them about the issue with rear height. They do offer longer thread collars and/or 330LB springs to remedy the issue.
I'd choose longer thread collars and tons of preload on the stock 280LB springs.
Flex Z is a good idea on paper. You will need to do quite a bit of work (relatively) on setup. If you're not suspension savvy, you will set them up badly...and it will ride badly. The manual's recommendations usually have you either fully riding on the bumpstop, or damn close. If you are down for an adventure, a full body coil like the flex will serve you well.
So I'm not suspension savvy as this will be my first ever mod and I won't be installing them myself (lack of space & time). Do you recommend I get the Tein SA with the longer thread collars?
As a person who uses his wagon for exactly the same reasons, don't do Tein SA. ^ Highest settings.
Had them on my waggon and here were my dislikes.
-To low. While the front can reach moderate drop levels and has a huge range of height adjustability, the rear does not. All I wanted was a mild drop all around and got 1.5-1.75. While not terrible, it was to low for my taste.
-They are way to soft. If you want any firmness you'll need to be on two clicks from firm. Pretty useless damper settings.
Personally I recommend going with either ST or Tein Flex Z. One, they offer way more ride height adjustability. Two, they come with better dampers which make the most impact on ride quality.
Can you post more pics of your car? Possibly a side profile? Does the rear rub if you have your trunk loaded?
I'm interested in a .5 to 1 drop front and rear. I read KW V1 are available as well though a little expensive. Are they worth it?
The rears won't scrape with the SA. There's not much for the rear to scrape on, in any case. You'll just pretty much be forced to lower the car 1.5".
I would certainly still recommend the SA if you could get thread collars that were like....1.38" (35mm) longer than the normal ones. But I'm not sure Tein makes collars that long...but you could ask.
The easiest way is to make your own spacer without asking Tein anything. But that would necessitate finding someone with a lathe.
KW V1's are stainless steel versions of the KW ST-X.
Hell no, they're not worth what they're asking (IMO), unless you need a stainless steel coilover for some reason?
What type of environment do you drive the car in? Any salt/snow?
The rears won't scrape with the SA. There's not much for the rear to scrape on, in any case. You'll just pretty much be forced to lower the car 1.5".
I would certainly still recommend the SA if you could get thread collars that were like....1.38" (35mm) longer than the normal ones. But I'm not sure Tein makes collars that long...but you could ask.
The easiest way is to make your own spacer without asking Tein anything. But that would necessitate finding someone with a lathe.
KW V1's are stainless steel versions of the KW ST-X.
Hell no, they're not worth what they're asking (IMO), unless you need a stainless steel coilover for some reason?
What type of environment do you drive the car in? Any salt/snow?
I'm in the Seattle area but plan on moving back to the East Coast. If Tein doesn't make the thread collars, should I go for the 330lb spring rate since I am just wanting to go 1" max?
IDK what the sprung rear corner weight of a wagon is. Maybe 600LB?
Rear MR is like? 1.1 : 1, wheel to shock?
600LB "weighs" 660LB at the spring.
Compared to the Tein provided 280LB spring, a 330LB spring would hold the shock up an extra 0.35". That equals 3/8" at the wheel.
So...maybe. You'll need to crank the damper up almost to full stiff to properly harness the spring, though.
And that's assuming my numbers are correct.
I'd buy the longer thread collars from Tein, and springs from Eibach (springs are cheaper at Eibach).
Issues:
-Not sure how they'll ride with 50LB more spring in the back. Maybe not bad.
-But now you're up in the Flex Z price range.
An alternative: Look at the H&R street performance coilovers. Those should allow you to ride high. And they're monotube Bilstein (I'm pretty sure they're Bilsteins) shocks. So they LOVE being up high. They're zinc plated. So you may want to clearcoat or spray coat the BODIES (never spray the piston rod) before installing them.
If you want to stay with Teins, see how much it would be for a pair of 11.5 to 12" long Eibach flat bottom springs. Or perhaps a helper spring with a 1.25 to 2" collapsed length.
I think the Tein springs are 10" length. 280LB/IN rates. I'll look in my manual when I'm home.
Koni and ground control is another viable option. But you said simple. One would need to guess on spring rates and lengths.
My guess? 11K (600 LB) fronts and 5.5k (300LB) rears? Probably 10+ inch lengths. I don't know what the TSX yellows are built to handle
Something to keep in mind also. You have aftermarket wheels. They will make the ride height appear "higher" than the dorky stock wheels do by quite a bit.
I used a spring spacer (yellow arrow). I had this CNC'd. One can hand cut it on a lathe. Material is 6061-T6 aluminum. Measure the Tein supplied tophat plate and just make it taller. I made mine 1.25" in height (not including the spring centering hub).
The blue measurement is my spring's initial (preloaded) length. I preloaded my spring til it measured 8.38". IIRC, original spring free length is 10".
The red measurement is my thread height. Not too far off from Tein's recommendation - pretty much all the way up.
With all these factors, my rear ride height is 14", from wheel hub centre to wheel arch centre (arch centre is marked by blue tape). This is an INCREDIBLY inaccurate place to measure. But it helps to use the blue tape mark for consistency. That way you're always measuring from the same spot.
I do need some help. Can someone please do the wheel centre to arch centre measurement for me on a STOCK wagon? Level ground. Tank full of gas. No additional weight.
Left Side: 14.625" by taking the overall ground to outer bend of the fender, at the highest point, through the center(ish) of the wheel and then subtracting the ground to center(ish) of the wheel.
Left Side: 14.5" By trying to eyeball the highest point on the fender down to the center of the wheel.
Right Side: 15.0" doing the subtraction method
Right Side: 14.75" doing the eyeballed fender to wheel center.
05-26-2017, 12:43 PM
