stan_t

Hello,

So, I've had a 2012 SE for over 7K now. The car is nice, but I'm a suspension tweaker and have tinkered with suspension multiple times on every car I've had since at least 2006. I know that a good damper is core of a well-handling and riding setup and know if effects of suspension geometry changes first hand. I've had Konis on a Miata, Subaru and even have them now on a beater Volvo beater wagon I use for driving the dog to the beach.

I've also tried Ohlins, Bilstein HDs, GR2s/Excel Gs, and BC Racing BR series coilovers. I've tried a few dozen lowering springs and know that most concentrate mostly on looks, while others actually work very well for performance and comfort. I really wish Swift made springs for the TSX, but they don't.

So, I'm considering starting suspension changes to the TSX. I liked BCs (on a Lexus LS400 of all things lol), but they may be a bit too aggressive for my purpose. Tein Advanced Street may work well too. But it's tough for me to not consider Konis which have treated me well for many years. I could run them with stock springs, get a better controlled OEM-like ride and a 1/2" drop, which would work well for me. I would also consider a stiffer spring, but seems like the ProKit may be the only option, H&R springs may be too low. Being an inch lower than stock on bit firmer spring would be good, but I need to retain suspension travel as some of our roads are shit. I've tried the ProKit on the Lexus too with GR2s, it was alright but too low.

So, anyone running Konis with stock or aftermarket springs that could comment? Maybe MrHelltoe could chime in. This is a bit long, but I could use some ideas.

Thank you much,

Stan

Excelerate

iTrader: (1)

Based on what you wrote I would recommend an Eibach Pro Kit coupled with KONI Yellows or the TEIN Super Streets. The Pro Kit lowers the TSX 1.2" F and 1.0" R, which is very reasonable and the ride comfort is OE-like but somewhat sporty. You can then adjust the damping to get the exact setting you'd like in terms of shock response. The Super Streets can ride OE-like if set on a softer damping and they offer a minimum drop of 0.7" F and 0.1" R.

If this is something you're interested in let me know and we'll put a package together for you.

stan_t

Thank you for your input -- it's greatly appreciated. I will definitely contact you once I'm closer to making a purchase.

For the sake of comparison, let's narrow this down a bit. Since the price range, quality, characteristics and goals of these 2 are similar, let's say:

Koni yellows with Eibach ProKit springs:

Pros:
I'm familiar with them
Can run stock springs for most OE feel

Cons:
can't adjust height too much
selection of springs is very limited (ProKit, H&R, stock)
adjustment affects only rebound, compression is static unless you custom re-valve the damper

Tein SS (aren't Tein Street Advance a better option since it's newer design?)

Pros:
Can tweak height better
Can install different 2.5" springs of higher rates
Adjustment affects both rebound and compression (?)

Cons:
This one is unknown to me at this time.

Always appreciate any input/comments. I think I'm getting closer to figuring this out.

Stan

Excelerate

iTrader: (1)

There will be no ride height adjustment with the shock/spring setup. However, there is compression and rebound adjustment but the compression adjustment needs to be done before installation.

http://www.koni-na.com/adjustment.cfm

The TEIN setup has ride height and damping adjustment; the damping is rebound and compression combined. It will also allow you to lower the car less. The SA is the newer model but it very similar to the SS (previous model).

stan_t

Thank you Joshua, this is helpful.

Tein SS sound very tempting and are pretty difficult to resist. However, I am still leaning towards Konis because I believe they make a better damper. I wish I could get a ride in a car with Teins, if there is anyone around running them and willing to give me a ride I'd really appreciate it.

I'm leaning towards starting out with Konis with stock springs and seeing how that goes. I wish Swift made a spring for our car, then I'd just go straight to Konis + Swifts. Also, H&R coilovers sound tempting since they use Bilsteins mono-tube dampers, but it is a less flexible option (no spring choices, no adjustment), and costs more.

Decisions, decisions..

Stan

stan_t

Okay, they are here.



Note that the 2nd gen KONIs only have 2 grooves for perches on front and rear shocks, reading the forums makes it sounds like the 1st gen ones had 3 grooves on the rear shocks. I am planning to run these with stock springs over them at first, perch set to the lowest setting. I will have to examine the stock bumpstops to see if they need to be trimmed, ideally I'd get new polyurethane bumpstops from Ground Control (they are only $12 each). In the future, I may look into a Ground Control kit to install over these.

Stay tuned. I just need to get some time to install these, getting long chunks of free time is tricky nowadays. Ask questions while you can, I've swapped suspensions many dozens of times so I'm not new to this whole thing.

Stan

SinCityTLX

looking very nice! I can't wait to see the pics when you are done. Will you be running factory wheels? You need to take measurements before and after with the same wheels so we can all get a feel of the Koni lowering specifics.

I am assuming the upper groove is the OEM position, or is this still lower than OEM as well?

They look to be very well made.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

I love my konis!!

stan_t

I'll be running stock wheels for a while. I like the TSW Interlagos and Nurburgrings, but I'm not made of money so that will have to be addressed later.

I will take measurements of the shocks, and will take pictures. For now, I measured distance from center of the wheel to the fender lip, and it looks to be 15" in the front and 14 1/4" in the back with a full tank of gas. This is what the car looks like now, stock.







Stan

SinCityTLX

With my teins I have an equal gap all the way around as measured from fender lip to center of HUB. I forget my measurements, but I am around 13.75 inches or so if I remember correctly.

stan_t

Alright, the fronts are in. I took pictures of install, tomorrow. Time to sleep.

Stan

odus

iTrader: (1)

interesting in for pics .

stan_t

Distance between the 2 grooves is 15mm:



Compress the spring, take the tophat off:



Tophat is sandwiched between 2 bushings with tube between them. Since the KONIs shafts are thicker, we have to replace this tube with a new one.







Here is the stock shock with the spring off and all it's hardware:



I cut one "bump" off the bumpstop since we are going lower:



Bumpstop is difficult to get over the weld on the damper shaft. I put some spacers between it and the nut, and tightened down the nut to get the bumpstop over it -- easy.



New shocks came with 2 spacers, one thinner and one thicker. The thinner one goes on top of the bumpstop, the thinner one goes over the dustboot.



Dustboot had a steel cylinder in it's top. We have to drill out the hole at the top of it to fit it over the KONI's larger shaft. Remove the cylinder:



Drill it out and put it back in:



Put the thinner washer on top of the bumpstop:



Put the dustboot over that:



Then, put the thicker washer on top of that:



Then, put the tophat on and tighten it. Bushings will compress, keep tightening until you bottom out on the steel washer and will feel a good amount of resistance, 'till then it isn't tightened all the way. Keep in mind the position of the spring in the top perch, and position of the studs in the tophat relative to the shock body. If you do this right, things will line up perfectly.



Kit comes with 2 nuts for each shock, so I put both of them on there for security:



Stock shock next to KONI with stock spring. Note the lower spring perch is lower, but the tophat is extended pretty much just as far -- this is good because you will have the same amount of droop as stock.



Will be driving the car shortly, will also snap some picks. Initial measurements show the front at 14 1/2", 1/2" lower than it was.

Stan

SinCityTLX

so what that using the top groove of the bottom groove. If it was the bottom groove the drop should have been ore than 1/2".

stan_t

It's on the bottom groove. Drop is slight but visible, car is racked now. I'll post pictures shortly. Rides well so far, feels OE but more controlled and smoother. I won't be going lower -- as-is, I'm scraping going into some driveways, no flat surfaces around here. Stock springs are stiff enough.

Stan

stan_t

Here you are, stock rear setup, KONIs on the front on the lowest groove. Slight forward rake.















Stan

ed_423

not bad at all!

08r3308

Great work. Will you get aftermarket springs? I was going to go this route but koni were too expensive in Australia. Nearly 1k for all 4 shocks plus $50 if I want extra groves.

stan_t

Thank you. No aftermarket spring for now, i need to keep height and ride quality reasonable. I did the rears last night, getting the shocks out is a PITA. Pictures soon.

Stan

08r3308

Tell me about it especially passenger side, because of that thing for putting fuel in

stan_t

So, after putting some miles on this setup and while first impression is still fresh -- the stock shocks suck ass. Car rides so much nicer now.

Stan

stan_t

Here are pictures of the car 1/2" lower than stock. Looks much better IMO, and rides so much nicer. Thank you Excelerate for quick, smooth transaction.











Stan

SinCityTLX

nice. It will look fantastic if you ever put on some 19s with 245/40 tires.

How is the ride over expansion joints and bumps, I bet it feels better than stock since your springs have less preload on them and the Konis have better valving than the stock showas.

stan_t

You got it -- less preload, better damping, ride quality is better, road feel is better. I don't want to say it's firmer, because springs are the same. It's crisper, smoother, more controlled and rough roads seem to be absorbed better now.

Stan

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

but you can adjust the damping to make it firmer, if you so choose?

stan_t

That's right, the adjustment I believe affects rebound damping, compression stays the same.

Stan

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

i have an 06TL with Koni yellows.
my car feels so stiff!
Because racecar

stan_t

Really, with stock springs? Ride quality is so subjective. What do have the adjustments set to?

To me, it feels more comfortable and more sporty. I hate to say "stiffer" because the springs dictate how stiff the car is -- springs haven't changed. If anything, they are less pre-loaded -- since the perch is higher with the stock shock, spring is initially compressed more and is under more tension before it starts compressing even more going over bumps. With less pre-load, when the spring "returns" after hitting a bump, it does so to a more "relaxed" state. This to me improves ride quality going over rough stuff, at the same time the valving is better so the shock responds much quicker to road changes -- you get a better feel of the road, more control of the spring's up/down movements. One thing I can say is it doesn't ride harsh, I've had many other setups on other cars that ran much harsher, with KONIs, Ohlins, and other dampers.

Stan

Puppetmaster

Stan, great pictures, description and documentation, esp of the adjustments needed. Where did you get the thicker tube for the top hat bushings and did you measure the inner diameter of the replacement? I guess one could also use the diameter of the Koni piston rod if need be. Thanks.

I've also added a link to your thread to the suspension compilation thread:

https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...5&postcount=29

stan_t

Thank you. The thicker tubes came with the KONIs. They fit in the stock bushings, only drilling required is for the steel caps on the dust boots, everything else is plug and play.

Stan

opboarding

Great write up. Look like it took some time to install these.

08r3308

looks great , like you i was looking for performance and adjust ability plus i wanted everything to fit like stock.

with some brands this is not possible to some extent , but in my case tein ss fit what i wanted perfectly.

i wanted to go this route as you but 1k for shocks plus $50 each grove adds up quickly, then there was a set of srpings and im in $1500 hehe

Excelerate

iTrader: (1)

Great write up. Thank you again for the order. Enjoy the new shocks.

Honda_boy83

This sounds like something I would like to do. 1/2" lower and better handling. Could you post up some pics again so that I can see what the drop looks like? Thank you!

stan_t

Pics are on my machine at home, which seems to be down. I'm in India now, when I get home in a week or so I'll fix it.

Stan

stan_t

Pictures are back up, let me know if you have any questions.

Stan

Honda_boy83

This is a great write up! After reading all of the post do the shocks come with both grooves or do I need to request that extra lower groove? Thanks again for showing us this!

stan_t

Not a problem, glad I can help. The shocks come with both grooves by design, no need to request it. Notice in my first picture that the circlips were installed in the top grooves at the factory, that's the stock height setting.

Stan

Honda_boy83

Are the circlips easily moved? Thanks!

stan_t

It's not too bad, pretty easy. I use circlip removal tool, but you could probably just use thin nose pliers or/end a screwdriver. You just need to expand them enough to pop them out of the groove. What tool you use will dictate how much paint you'll scratch off the shock body, mostly. It is not as hard as removing piston rings or wrist pin circlips.

You can not move them once the spring and tophat is on the shock, you have to take everything apart. Though, I've managed to do it once on a Miata with shocks still on the car, but I don't recommend trying it.

Stan