alex9119

Hi guys so I have a constant issue going on with the torque converter. I know that there are many threads out there but I would love to get your guys advice.

So heres the story I have been having problems with the torque converter for years. I got the letter from acura saying that there was finally an update so I brought the car in. That didn't solve anything, they then finally said they are going to switch out the torque converter.

But that didn't help it still constantly vibrated, so now a year later the problem is coming back and it is worse (sometimes shakes the whole car) and the dealer is telling me that the car is perfectly fine.

The thing is, is that this vibration only occurs when the engine/trans is really hot so when its cold it acts normally. So in conclusion do you guys think its still the physical part or is it software related because they said they are now charging me for diagnostics because they aren't being paid from acura to do it.

In addition here is a short video of some of the vibration

S power

The thing is that trans fluid is breaking down too quickly or that the pcm is locking up the clutch at a very low rpm stage. Engineer design this car to have the best MPG(keeping the rpm at cruising low) because these days its all about the mpg's but sacrifice reliability. A fluid drain and fill will help lesson the vibration. Imo dw-1 is the shittiest trans fluid, sorry oem fluid fanboys. Ask yourself, why are trans still failing with oem fluids and with a drain and fill, its smooth again?
Valvoline maxlife atf is superior to dw-1 that you can get it at walmart. Plus many other as well. Been using maxlife on my wifes v6 accord and its now 140k miles with no problems whatsoever.
Transmission pcm update helps keep the rpm higher but since the tl throttle response is slow and lagging , the clutch lock up doesn't disengage until you give it more throttle to bring up the rpm. In the meantime the vibration and lugging happens. Just something you have to live with or jump ship.

echodigital

I have a 2009 TL with about the same mileage. When I had the Transmission fluid change, it was smooth like butter.

I actually had an Acura Tech sit with me so he could confirm if I needed a TC. Basically the symptoms are...

1. 1000-1200 RPM
2. Under load like a slight up hill

The TC is trying to engage at lower rpm and hence the shudder. Mine was slight but I have not had TC replaced yet. There is a TSB warranty extension so I will be looking at my expiry date very closely.

S power has a very good point and one of my car tech friends agrees that a better transmission fluid could help.

alex9119

I have already flushed out the old fluid and did the 3x drain and refill on this vehicle recently but did not change anything.

My concern is why is it so hard to get warranty work done, I sent the video to the dealer and they said that it is normal and the vehicle should make that vibration sound.

S power

Because warranty work doesn't pay dealership that well. A high volume dealership doesn't want thier work bay hold out for too long (in this case a tranny removal ).
Anyhow, try another dealership.

csmeance

another dealership may be able to assist you better, sometimes even a different service advisor will too. Insist on riding with the tech to show them the issue.

DW1 fluid is recommended bc it's a synthetic, but at the end of the day any fluid will break down under extreme operating conditions.

Acura programed the torque converters to run as low as 1100 RPM during driving to maximize MPG. This low rev puts a lot more stress on the fluid and torque converter turbine which in turn generates heat breaking the fluid down further.

Change the fluid every other oil change and it'll prevent issues. Get the trans filter changed, and that might help with the warm fluid issue. As the fluid gets warm it can thin to the point where it can't get enough flow/pressure to properly operate.

After that, check all the trans solenoids for debris and clean them out. There may be damage done to the torque converter already. The warranty on them was extended to 10 yrs 105K by acura on SH-AWD models bc they put even more strain driving 4 wheels more than 2, so if SH-AWD it should be covered.

TSB list:
https://acurazine.com/forums/fourth-...s-tsbs-701767/

follow instructions in there, then open 12-029

are you having a weird idle by any chance?

alex9119

Unfortunately this is the dealership that I have to take it to as what Acura Canada has told me so I am pretty much SOL. They were the ones who replaced the torque converter and for riding with a tech I have, I have made the vehicle lock up several times but they say is the exhaust and the vibration is normal.

S power

If this is the last resort, I highly recommend adding a bottle of lubegard black bottle on the next drain and fill. Evidently these transmission needs the high FM's. I have recommended this to family and friends acura thats got shudder and vibration problem. Which all have awesome result. It didn't completely eliminated it but you have to really look for it to notice the vibration.

I had shudder and bad vibration on my 2010 tl too. But with a drain and fill, it was smooth again. However, if it ever come back again (probably soon), I already have a black bottle ready.

csmeance

is it possible that it's not a trans issue and an issue with how the car was put back together such as a binding mount, something not properly aligned with the front subframe, etc.

alex9119

I had it up on a lift and everything looks the way it should look, just the issue is, is that it only acts up when the fluid is hot so I don't know if its honda dw-1 low viscosity issue or something else.

jefflikesbagels

Alex, I just recently did the 3x tranny change with DW-1, and while the symptoms are a little better, I do not think that RPM drop will ever go away. My road is on a steep incline, so every morning when I leave, I have to give it a lot of gas, otherwise the TQ will engage and shudder the entire car because it shifted to 2nd too early. This is even after whatever latest "software update" the stealership provided.

Like S Power said, it may just have to be something that you live with. Even with the new fluid I still get a slightly alarming knock sound when I go from coasting to tapping on the accelerator lightly. It feels like a gear backlash knock or something. It's a shame because it's such a sweet car. My next car will definitely be a manual.

alex9119

does your torque converter/transmission act up all the time or only when the fluid is hot? In addition does it jerk back and clunk when the fluid is hot?

At this time I am almost sick and tired of this constant occurrence and on top of that I own a couple of recent acura/honda products and it looks like the quality has gone done the drain.

jefflikesbagels

I would say it acts up almost all the time, but is much more pronounced when the fluid is hot. I haven't tried reproducing the clunking sound when the transmission is cold; I'll give that a shot tomorrow morning. Every time that it has done it so far has been when the transmission is warm. I've been trying to get a good video of it to post up here, but it's hard to capture the sound without getting background noise with it. Does yours do the clunking as well?

I think you may be right about the quality. I've been seeing tons of disappointments on the interwebs with the new RLX/TLX. I was so hyped up for the TLX too. Oh well.

alex9119

yeah it does but mostly when the fluid gets hot then it does it a lot. It really annoys me when it shakes the whole car like when you go onto a rumble strip. By the way did the dealership change the TC as well and you are still having the symptoms after the results?

S power

^^ do you guys happen to have the updated software work order? Can you confirmed what software number was used.

echodigital

I had software updated when propeller shaft was replaced.

jefflikesbagels

The dealership played stupid with me and said the car is running fine, so they didn't change the TQ. But then they go around and update the transmission software? Kind of sketchy if you ask me. I looked at my invoice for a software number, but couldn't find anything. I honestly wonder if they even did that because the car feels exactly the same as before.

S power

Mine is a 2010, which was stated that all software was updated few months ago at the dealership. Recently i took out my scanner and scan the system and this was found:


Unfortunately my interface cable was unable to download the new software. I have a new cable on the way. Will test once it is in.
Seems like the car was never updated since birth as there were big gap in numbers.

jefflikesbagels

S Power, what scanner is that? That'd be pretty neat if I could check what software version I'm on. I currently just have a bluetooth ODBII adapter with Torque Pro on my Android phone, which I highly doubt is able to do what you can do.

S power

It's a obdII j2534 cable that I had used on my previous Toyota for techstream.
Software is the Honda pass thru(free download). Works on Windows xp only. This software is for update purpose only and it does not read or clear faults.
The cable was unable to write the new software because Honda requires pin 14 for writing new files which this cable had no connection from interface board to this pin.
Cable was about $20 shipped eBay along with and old xp laptop you can scan your car but you won't be able to do anything. Just information for you to know.

My new cable suppose to come in tomorrow. I will do a write up if anyone needs this. No more dealers bs.

alex9119

yes please do a write up, i was always curious on whether the dealer actually did anything to the car.

echodigital

The dealer should update this for free.

S power

That's the problem. You will never know if it has been updated or not. They can just leave your car in the bay and say " it's updated". You're not paying for it, and they get a check from Acura. They earned the name STEALERSHIP.

echodigital

I would goto another dealer and report the problem with that particular dealership to Acura HQ. Social media helps to. If that dealer has a FB site, let the community know. That ain't right but I guess it happens.

jim_c

Alex9119, where are you?
Are you in the gta?

alex9119

I live in calgary

JasonK

Did they replace the Torque Converter yet?

The problem is the longer the update wasn't done for, the more locking up the torque converter does. The more it does it the worse it becomes. To the point of where you'll basically have to get a new one even after updating because the issued has occurred passed a point where nothing will fix it.

Demand a new one since this issue hasn't been fixed.

It's a design flaw in these torque converters especially since they are a "locking" torque converter.

jefflikesbagels

I have a feeling that this is what happened to me. The stealership supposedly updated the software, but I still get a weird knocking sound if I accelerate after coasting, or after I come to a complete stop. I presume it's the torque converter locking or unlocking when this happens. I'll try and get a video of it.

alex9119

Dealer replaced the torque converter after the update did not solve the problem. The lock up/shutter problem came back after 1 week, drove the car back to the dealership and was told that everything mechanically needs to set in/break in.

However now its been over a year and problem is still here.

JasonK

Does the car feel like it's studdering or shaking around 30-40k or 20-30 mph? usually that's what happens with these torque converters. It hits a locking spot around those speeds and causes the whole car to studder and shake. If you got a video I could probably diagnose it for you no problem.

JasonK

Yeah they're full of shit. You don't know how many times I've heard people say that from the dealer about their timing belts and other stuff making noise then I have to re-do it here at my shop. Like today I had a lady come in from Mazda saying she needs a water pump replaced and her transfer case is leaking on her cx9. Quoted her 3,000$ or something. Water pump alone is a lot of labor. Have to disconnect the trans and lift the engine because it's run on the timing chain. Turns out neither are leaking and she just needs a valve cover gasket. lol.

That's why they extended the warranty on these torque converters. I would take it back and tell them to fix it.

I had the same issue when I bought mine pre-owned at 60k after 6-7k I felt the shudder at 40k I immediately knew what it was. Took it to the dealer got the update done and changed out my tranny fluid with d4 redline atf 3x3 flush and I havn't felt it since. But only did it since my tranny and stuff was out of warranty. TC is still under warranty but issues fixed so I'm not worried.

Chef Ray

I had the same issue, see my post with all the details. Hope it helps

https://acurazine.com/forums/problem...placed-937551/

jefflikesbagels

I've been constantly trying to get a good video of it happening, but it's so hard for my phone to pick up over the road noise. My car doesn't do any shuddering or shaking thankfully, but I get this very jarring knock sound when I lightly step on the gas after coasting at around 25-40mph. I also occasionally get the same knock but fainter when I come to a complete stop and the car shifts from 3 to 1. I've also had a few un-reproducible moments where my car will act like it's about to stall if I come to a fast stop, like the torque converter is still locked up, then it eventually unlocks and returns to normal. I wonder if all of this knocking is related to some TQ locking mechanism? Is there a pressure switch of some sort that controls when it happens, and maybe can it be replaced?

JasonK

I don't think this is a torque converter issue. When the torque converter locks it usually makes the car studder or shake type vibration around those speeds. The knocking sound your talking about is probably a suspension part or mount. Could be the transmission also.

The stalling part may be one of these.

Have you checked your tranny fluid level?

Does the check engine light come on at all? Or is the car running rough?

Clogged or stuck EGR valve. (Does the car feel sluggish at lower rpms?)

Do you get very little power when accelerating? (If so this is another part)

Also could be your torque converter clutch solenoid going bad

-------------------------

One more question is it more of a clicking noise or a knock? Bad torque converters usually click and not knock.

alex9119

I wish it was that easy jason overtime i bring it in they say it is within specs and always deny another physical repair

JasonK

Well it shouldn't be locking up harshly. It's within spec? Do they take the whole torque converter apart?

I wish you could bring me with you I'd rip them a new one.

alex9119

ahahah thats why I'm so fed up.

They told me they attached the scan tool and did snapshots and compared it to the snapshots when the torque converter was not replaced. They sent the data to acura and they said it was in spec but the shop foreman told me he could also feel the lock up.

furthermore the problem really is noticeable when the transmission oil is really hot

JasonK

Just because they say it's within spec doesn't mean there isn't something wrong with it. I havn't personally checked on our scan tools here (have 3 different ones) Snap-On, Autel and some other one. But they should be able to check some of specs. But if you have a torque converter that's doing that it definitely isn't normal. Get them to fix it still while it's under warranty. Get the head tech to talk to the service manager. They probably just don't want to do it again lol

Miami13

Hi S power,
Did you ever do a write up on the J2534 cable for Hondas/Acuras? I'm eager to hear how it went for you. I'd bought a cheap Chinese $29 version from Amazon, but returned it as it didn't work at all. HDS was never able to communicate w/ the PCM/ECM. The least expensive I've seen that supposedly works and that now Honda has actually listed it on their site as a '3rd party' option that they haven't certified, is the Drew Tech's Mongoose Pro Honda USB cable. It goes for $482 on Amazon (for a stinkin' USB cable), of course they say it's not the cable only you're paying for, but the support behind it. I have three Honda products so I've considered buying one as it may be eventually worth the investment. But it hurts to dish out $500 for a cable when there are $29 options for Toyotas. No Chinese version has been able to reverse engineer the Drew Tech cable. Your input is greatly appreciated. Thanks.