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The BIG Bailout.

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Old 09-18-2008, 04:56 PM
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The BIG Bailout.

Paulson May Propose Plan To Take Over Bad Debts


Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson is considering setting up a government facility to take on bad debts from financial institutions and prevent the global credit crisis from worsening, CNBC has learned.

The facility would be similar to the Resolution Trust Corporation, which was set up in 1989 to take on all the failed thrift assets during the savings and loan crisis, sources said.

Paulson plans to meet privately and discuss the plan with leadership from the House of Representatives, including members of both parties, at 7 p.m. New York time tonight.

Paulson will brief House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and other congressional leaders on the proposal this afternoon, CNBC has learned. Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke is expected to accompany Paulson.

The Bush administration wants to make sure Congress is behind the idea before it moves ahead on the plan, a source told CNBC.

Such a move, according to its advocates, would allow banks to shovel bad debt off their balance sheets and allow the firms to go back to business as usual. It would also eliminate the need for individual company bailouts.

In turn, that could allow the housing market to recover because it would restore banks willingness to lend.

"This will bring real trust back into the market." Donald Marron, chairman of Lightyear Capital, said on CNBC. "It would free up real, spendable capital in these organizations. They can use that to make loans, to make transactions and to build confidence in the system. This is a confidence crisis."

Charlie Gasparino breaks the story on Paulson's plan. Watch video at left.

The news sparked a big rally in stocks after a day in which investors remained nervous about the spreading effects the global credit crisis.

The Treasury Department and Federal Reserve, which engineered an $85 billion rescue plan for insurer American International Group earlier this week, declined to comment.

The aide also pointed to an opinion piece in Wednesday's Wall Street Journal by former Federal Reserve Chairman Paul Volcker, former Comptroller of the Currency Eugene Ludwig and former Treasury Secretary Nicholas Brady in which they said such a body could buy up troubled real estate debt to get credit markets working again.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/26779080
Old 09-18-2008, 05:49 PM
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They going to bailout these bad companies, but who's going to bail out the US?
Old 09-18-2008, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Black Tire
They going to bailout these bad companies, but who's going to bail out the US?
will bail us out :wink:

The U.S. will borrow, print money, & tax the citizens to get out of this mess.

It's brilliant!
Old 09-18-2008, 06:19 PM
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Crisis Exposes Flaws in U.S. Economy, Tarnishes Image

The rapid-fire rescues of financial firms may end up tarnishing America's free-market reputation as the moves expose defects in the U.S. economy, undermining its standing with foreign buyers of the dollar and U.S. Treasury securities.

The government's actions might add hundreds of billions to a budget deficit already expected to hit a record next year. The salvage operations, which include Tuesday's takeover of American International Group Inc., also raise questions about the U.S. commitment to a free-market economy that, until recently, was the envy of the world.

America's credit ``profile is now weaker because contingent risks have become actual risks to the U.S. government,'' said John Chambers, managing director of sovereign ratings at Standard & Poor's in New York.

The result: Foreign investors may demand higher compensation for providing the money the U.S. government and economy depend on. That, in turn, could translate into lower living standards for Americans as borrowing costs are pushed higher and the dollar is pulled lower.....
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aXRPsaQU9ybY
Old 09-18-2008, 06:33 PM
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How to clean up a Category 4 financial storm

Few options as world faces what may be the greatest loss of wealth ever

You know you're in a heap of trouble when the lender of last resort suddenly runs out of money.

Having pumped $100 billion into the banking system and lent $115 billion more to rescue Bear Stearns and AIG, the Federal Reserve was forced to ask the Treasury yesterday to borrow some extra money to replenish its coffers. If there was any good news in that, it was that investors here and abroad were eager to help out, having decided that the only safe place to put their money is in U.S. government securities. Indeed, demand was so brisk at one point yesterday that, for an investor, the effective yield on a three-month Treasury bill was driven below zero, once the broker's fee was figured in.

This is what a Category 4 financial crisis looks like. Giant blue-chip financial institutions swept away in a matter of days. Banks refusing to lend to other banks. Russia closing its stock market to stop the panicked selling. Gold soaring $70 in a single trading session. Developing countries' currencies in a free fall. Money-market funds warning they might not be able to return every dollar invested. Daily swings of three, four, five hundred points in the Dow Jones industrial average.....
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26767130/
Old 09-18-2008, 06:35 PM
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Third world country here we come!!!
Old 09-18-2008, 06:39 PM
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Bright Side of a Total Financial Market Collapse

Commentary by Michael Lewis

One of life's rules is that there's bad in good and good in bad. The total collapse of the U.S. financial system is no exception. Even in the midst of the current financial despair we can look around and identify many collateral benefits.....

1) We finally get to see what's inside these big Wall Street firms.

2) We are creating the financial leaders of tomorrow.

3) Ordinary Americans get a lesson in low finance.

4) We have lots of new houses.

5) Huge numbers of Wall Street executives will have the time to raise their children.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=a9xtBHJoZTOw
Old 09-18-2008, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Moog-Type-S
Third world country here we come!!!
Meh, hardly. By the looks of things we're becoming more and more like Western Europe: still very rich, but more socialistic in nature along with the tethers that come along with the rise of a welfare state, higher taxation, 10% unemployment, etc.
Old 09-18-2008, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Fibonacci
Meh, hardly. By the looks of things we're becoming more and more like Western Europe: still very rich, but more socialistic in nature along with the tethers that come along with the rise of a welfare state, higher taxation, 10% unemployment, etc.
pssssst ...it was a joke...about the third world thing. :wink:

...but I do agree with you that we are headed for the bloated Euro-model.
Old 09-19-2008, 06:14 AM
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Three men forge response to economic crisis

Paulson, Bernanke, Geithner engineer handling of grave financial situation

The response to the gravest financial crisis in generations has been engineered to a remarkable degree by a committee of three.

From the rescue of Bear Stearns to the takeovers of Fannie Mae , Freddie Mac and American International Group , all the key decisions have been made by Treasury Secretary Henry M. Paulson Jr., Federal Reserve Chairman Ben S. Bernanke and Timothy F. Geithner , the president of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York .

It is this unusual collaboration among a consummate dealmaker, a professor and a seasoned public servant that could determine how the nation weathers the most profound threat to its economy in modern times. Despite their disparate backgrounds, the three men have formed a close, informal partnership built on rapid-fire phone calls and open debate that breaks the mold of Washington policymaking.....
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26786579/


The Committee to Save the World: Version 2.0
Old 09-19-2008, 09:38 AM
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WOW...they find billions out of no where for these big bail outs, but can't find money for Medicare?....American gov't is f--ked! Sorry, I had to say that.

Well, its not really a bail out, just shifting the trillions to the tax payer. Have a nice day!
My bet, we'll be back to where we are in 2 weeks with banks failing.
Old 09-19-2008, 10:35 AM
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This is gonna make the S&L bailout look like walk in the park.
Old 09-19-2008, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Black Tire
Well, its not really a bail out, just shifting the trillions to the tax payer.




Old 09-19-2008, 12:12 PM
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So, how exactly is social security going to be honored now?
Old 09-21-2008, 03:43 PM
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This is ridiculous. So let's say that these subprime loans the banks bet on had not collapsed and they made billions in profits. Would those profits have been shared with the taxpayers? Of course not! How does this support proper and ethical open market competition? Now banks know that if they make a bad bet they will be bailed out.

Also, what exactly are these "dire" consequences that no one in the government is willing to talk about. They have provided no proof or information on what will happen. Instead all these Washington "leaders" like Paulson were all insiders on Wall Street. I've heard Paulson's net worth is close to $1 billion from his time as CEO of Goldman Sachs. And SEC Chairman Cox has absolutely no experience to back up his assignment. Being a career politician does not make you qualified to decide what regulations are needed for the economy.

If the bailout was truly needed, why not go straight to the Average Joe? Put the 0.7 trillion to keep people in homes and to give us the confidence that our bank accounts will remain solvent (assign fresh capital into FDIC to show us the money is there if needed or raise insurance to $200k/account). All this deal does is make sure those Wall St. executives keep their plush Connecticut homes and those millions in bonuses for doing such a great job.
Old 09-21-2008, 06:23 PM
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A Professor and a Banker Bury Old Dogma on Markets

Originally Posted by ryder1650
Also, what exactly are these "dire" consequences that no one in the government is willing to talk about. They have provided no proof or information on what will happen.
Apparently, you don't read history books -- here's a basic place to start:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Depression


For the last year, as the nation’s economy lurched from crisis to crisis, the chairman of the Federal Reserve, Ben S. Bernanke, had been warning Henry M. Paulson Jr., the Treasury secretary, that the worsening situation might ultimately force a sweeping federal intervention.

A longtime student of the Great Depression, Mr. Bernanke was acutely aware of what could happen without a decisive move. Finally, the moment that called for action arrived late Wednesday. Less than 24 hours after the Fed bailed out American International Group, the giant insurer, it was clear the turmoil gripping Wall Street was only growing worse and that ad hoc solutions were not working.

Talking into a speaker phone from his ornate office, Mr. Bernanke told Mr. Paulson that it was time to adopt a comprehensive strategy that Congress would have to approve. Mr. Paulson understood. Reluctant in recent days to send Congress a plan that lawmakers had warned had little chance of quick passage, he had worried that a rejection would only further shock the markets. But during two conference calls Wednesday night and Thursday morning, he agreed that they had no choice.....
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/21/bu...prod=permalink
Old 09-22-2008, 02:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Fibonacci
Apparently, you don't read history books -- here's a basic place to start:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Depression




http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/21/bu...prod=permalink
The Great Depression, though, was caused largely by runs on banks that led to many commercial banks failing. Many people lost all of their money and had to start over from scratch. Now, however, we have the FDIC in place to make sure our money is safe. People run on banks when they lose confidence in it. By announcing that the Fed is increasing the insurance on accounts and is injecting more capital into the FDIC to make sure it can handle large amounts of failures, people will be more confident that their money is safe and less likely to run.
Old 09-22-2008, 08:44 AM
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And then there were none:

It was the end of an era on Wall Street as the Federal Reserve granted permission for the last two major investment banks — Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley — to become bank holding companies in order to stay in business.

The Fed announced late Sunday evening that it had approved the request, which will allow Goldman and Morgan Stanley to create commercial banks that can take deposits, bolstering the resources of both institutions.

The change of status means both companies will come under the direct regulation of the Fed, which oversees the nation's bank holding companies. The banking subsidiaries of the two institutions will face the stricter regulations that commercial banks are required to meet. Previously, the primary regulator for Goldman and Morgan Stanley was the Securities and Exchange Commission.
Old 09-22-2008, 10:06 AM
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Are you fucking kidding me!?!? Three pages for the biggest bailout in history!?!? Did Bush double-space it and use 16-point font to air it out?

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/09/...ess/21cong.php

The Bush administration on Saturday formally proposed a vast bailout of financial institutions in the United States, requesting unfettered authority for the Treasury Department to buy up to $700 billion in distressed mortgage-related assets from the private firms.

The proposal, not quite three pages long, was stunning for its stark simplicity. It would raise the national debt ceiling to $11.3 trillion. And it would place no restrictions on the administration other than requiring semiannual reports to Congress, granting the Treasury secretary unprecedented power to buy and resell mortgage debt.

"This is a big package, because it was a big problem," President George W. Bush said Saturday at a White House news conference, after meeting with President Álvaro Uribe of Colombia. "I will tell our citizens and continue to remind them that the risk of doing nothing far outweighs the risk of the package, and that, over time, we're going to get a lot of the money back."

After a week of stomach-flipping turmoil in the financial system, and with officials still on edge about how global markets will respond, the delivery of the administration's plan set the stage for a four-day brawl in Congress. Democratic leaders have pledged to approve a bill but say it must also include tangible help for ordinary Americans in the form of an economic stimulus package.

Staff members from Treasury and the House Financial Services and Senate banking committees immediately began meeting on Capitol Hill and were expected to work through the weekend. Congressional leaders are hoping to recess at the end of the week for the fall elections, after approving the bailout and a budget measure to keep the government running.
Old 09-22-2008, 10:37 AM
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^^ Thinks W. came up with the plan.
Old 09-22-2008, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Moog-Type-S
^^ Thinks W. came up with the plan.
At three pages, it seems likely. That seems to be about the limit of his mental capacity.

Obviously, he didn't write it, but he clearly thinks it's sufficient.

The plan proposes massive government spending that would not be subject to court review, raising the debt limit to $11.3 trillion, contains zero assistance for homeowners and no protections for taxpayers' money. And he wants Congress to quickly pass it. Something on a scale this big, once done, can't be undone. We need to make sure this is done correctly, and helps not just businesses but taxpayers and homeowners.

It stinks of short-timer's syndrome.
Old 09-22-2008, 11:56 AM
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Can we reduce it to one sentence? "Let me control all the money and I'll let you know how I'm doing a few times a year."

One person in charge of our military and one in charge of our money. Brilliant! Phase two is to merge the roles and rename it to something more appropriate.
Old 09-22-2008, 12:25 PM
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Wow....this could be the biggest heist in the world. And the American public is taking it with no arguments? In other, the people that would have burnt the capital to the ground. I guess the American public like getting screwed. I wonder how much Vaseline was used?
Old 09-22-2008, 01:16 PM
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3 words...ever seen Zeitgeist? The Federal Reserve section of the documentary is starting to make a lot more sense now.

Here's the clip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dmPchuXIXQ

and yes the rich keep getting richer even if they blow through all of our money and what's left of their own, no worries, the gov't will bail them out

God that pisses me off more than anything else today
Old 09-22-2008, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by NetEditor
At three pages, it seems likely. That seems to be about the limit of his mental capacity.

Obviously, he didn't write it, but he clearly thinks it's sufficient.

The plan proposes massive government spending that would not be subject to court review, raising the debt limit to $11.3 trillion, contains zero assistance for homeowners and no protections for taxpayers' money. And he wants Congress to quickly pass it. Something on a scale this big, once done, can't be undone. We need to make sure this is done correctly, and helps not just businesses but taxpayers and homeowners.

It stinks of short-timer's syndrome.
W knows very little about the down and dirty details of the economic system....like most presidents. He is relies on his "peeps" to come up with a "plan".

Is this a mess? You bet! And you and I will pay for it all.

Short timers syndrome......all presidents are only in it for their terms...then pass the buck to the next sucker. it's been a looooong time since a president in this country has thought further out than 4-8 years.

...but don't work the people elected to Congress to "represent the people" will make sure we don't get burned.
Old 09-22-2008, 01:26 PM
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To see the rest of the Fed Reserve documentary clips, go here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBZne09Gf5A

click on more info on the right for the remaining links
Old 09-22-2008, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Moog-Type-S
W knows very little about the down and dirty details of the economic system....like most presidents. He is relies on his "peeps" to come up with a "plan".
It doesn't take an economic genius to see his administration's proposal is severely lacking. Oversight on how the $700 billion is spent is not something I'd consider a "down and dirty detail of the economic system."
Old 09-22-2008, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by NetEditor
It doesn't take an economic genius to see his administration's proposal is severely lacking. Oversight on how the $700 billion is spent is not something I'd consider a "down and dirty detail of the economic system."
So, ever hear of a "cramdown?" It's used in the bankruptcy context.

Congress abdicated its oversight/watchdog roles in passing the Iraq resolution and the initial Patriot Act. Well, I hope our Congressional representatives make sure that there is oversight... this time...
Old 09-22-2008, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by NetEditor
It doesn't take an economic genius to see his administration's proposal is severely lacking. Oversight on how the $700 billion is spent is not something I'd consider a "down and dirty detail of the economic system."
Do you trust the Congress?
Old 09-22-2008, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Moog-Type-S
Do you trust the Congress?
That's NOT the point. Our system is built around checks and balances. The fact that Bush is even trying it is further proof that he'll go down as the worst president ever. His King George mentality is appalling.
Old 09-22-2008, 01:56 PM
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Paulson has been saying one thing to the public and something else behind closed doors:

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/...y-bailout.html

I worked at [Wall Street firm you've heard of], but now I handle financial services for [a Congressman], and I was on the conference call that Paulson, Bernanke and the House Democratic Leadership held for all the members yesterday afternoon. It's supposed to be members only, but there's no way to enforce that if it's a conference call, and you may have already heard from other staff who were listening in.

Anyway, I wanted to let you know that, behind closed doors, Paulson describes the plan differently. He explicitly says that it will buy assets at above market prices (although he still claims that they are undervalued) because the holders won't sell at market prices. Anna Eshoo pressed him on how the government can compel the holders to sell, and he basically dodged the question. I think that's because he didn't want to admit that the government would just keep offering more and more.

I don't think that our leadership has been very good during this negotiation (or really, during any showdowns with this administration) at forcing the administration to own their position. If Paulson wants this plan, then he needs to sell it to the public, and if he sells a different plan to the public (the nonsense buying-at-market-price plan) then we should pass that. I'd rather see the government act as a market maker for the assets to get them transferred over to private equity firms and sovereign wealth funds and other willing holders. And if we need to recapitalize these companies, it seems like the cheapest way for the taxpayer is to go in and buy up the distressed debt and then convert that to equity.

------

Why would we even consider buying above market price? The banks will get more money for these "securities" from the government than in the open market. That is just plain disgusting!
Old 09-22-2008, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by NetEditor
That's NOT the point. Our system is built around checks and balances. The fact that Bush is even trying it is further proof that he'll go down as the worst president ever. His King George mentality is appalling.
On the contrary...that IS the point.

Dubya can try to ram-rod all sorts of B.S., but in the end it has to get through the House and Senate.

The Congress can tell him to go pound sand if they want to.

It's up to Congress to make the call on the proposal. If they roll-over, it's nobody's fault but their own.


...so do you trust Congress?
Old 09-22-2008, 01:57 PM
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Also, here is a great line from the 3-page bailout text:

Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency.

Great.
Old 09-22-2008, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Moog-Type-S
On the contrary...that IS the point.

Dubya can try to ram-rod all sorts of B.S., but in the end it has to get through the House and Senate.

The Congress can tell him to go pound sand if they want to.

It's up to Congress to make the call on the proposal. If they roll-over, it's nobody's fault but their own.


...so do you trust Congress?
I was criticizing his proposal, so Congress or no Congress, that's not the point I was making.

But if you insist on asking the question, I will trust a body of people over one person when it comes to taxpayer money especially when that one person is Bush.
Old 09-22-2008, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by NetEditor
I was criticizing his proposal, so Congress or no Congress, that's not the point I was making.

But if you insist on asking the question, I will trust a body of people over one person when it comes to taxpayer money especially when that one person is Bush.
Then all is well....Congress will save the day. :wink:
They have the power.


...unless they are in the same corner as the president...and they roll-over.
Old 09-22-2008, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Moog-Type-S
Then all is well....Congress will save the day. :wink:
They have the power.


...unless they are in the same corner as the president...and they roll-over.
Oh, I see, you'd rather have Bush save the day.

Look, I don't think Congress is great, but our system is our system. Bush proposing to circumvent it, which is his M.O., is a bigger travesty.
Old 09-22-2008, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by NetEditor
Oh, I see, you'd rather have Bush save the day.

Look, I don't think Congress is great, but our system is our system. Bush proposing to circumvent it, which is his M.O., is a bigger travesty.
I think you need to re-read this thread

The plan is brilliant.

How can dubya circumvent Congress with the bailout?
Old 09-22-2008, 02:15 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Moog-Type-S
I think you need to re-read this thread

The plan is brilliant.

How can dubya circumvent Congress with the bailout?
The fact that he's even TRYING is appalling. But keep trying to read more into what I'm saying.
Old 09-22-2008, 02:26 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by NetEditor
The fact that he's even TRYING is appalling. But keep trying to read more into what I'm saying.
Not reading "more" into what you are saying, just saying that it's not "his" plan...he's not writting it.

..and Congress is envolved in the proposal:
Administration and congressional negotiators worked through the weekend to craft legislation that would provide the largest bank rescue plan and give sweeping powers to the U.S. Treasury to buy mortgage-related debt from financial firms.
http://www.reuters.com/article/polit...rpc=22&sp=true

...and Congress should block any B.S. that is put out there.

It's a perfect situation of checks and balance. Rep W and Dem Congress.
Old 09-22-2008, 02:30 PM
  #40  
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LOL. So I guess we shouldn't hold Bush accountable since he's not actually writing any proposals. Look, he's the president, whether he's actually putting pen to paper is irrelevant. The buck stops with him on proposals coming out of his administration.

At three pages, it appears like someone wrote it while taking a dump on the toilet. Don't you think a more comprehensive plan could have come out so that we don't have a back and forth on issues, such as oversight, that everyone knows HAS to be in there.

Last edited by NetEditor; 09-22-2008 at 02:32 PM.


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