Apple Wins $1 Billion as Jury Finds Samsung Violated Patents
#41
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I'm just saying that apple won something as well in south Korea, if you read the article you linked you'd know that.
However, in a split decision on patents, the panel also said on Friday Samsung violated Apple technology behind the bounce-back feature when scrolling on touch screens, and ordered both sides to pay limited damages.
#42
Suzuka Master
i know it has been beaten to death but the way you're talking it seems like for you apple is god and they didnt copy anything...and you posting about samsung winning doesnt say otherwise since you posted that to spite samsung. But what you said is correct, i wonder what samsung is saying over there...
touche
i feel like the more i look into this the more lost i get. Did samsung not try to license anything? more importantly what about google? Cause doesnt pinch to zoom fall under android? Why are the software patents going after samsung and not google, when google made the software?
#43
wonder if that has to do with them being biased
i know it has been beaten to death but the way you're talking it seems like for you apple is god and they didnt copy anything...and you posting about samsung winning doesnt say otherwise since you posted that to spite samsung. But what you said is correct, i wonder what samsung is saying over there...
i know it has been beaten to death but the way you're talking it seems like for you apple is god and they didnt copy anything...and you posting about samsung winning doesnt say otherwise since you posted that to spite samsung. But what you said is correct, i wonder what samsung is saying over there...
If Apple was being sued for stealing something from another company and lost, I wouldn't be sad. Patents are patents...
Last edited by jupitersolo; 08-24-2012 at 09:33 PM.
#44
wonder if that has to do with them being biased
i know it has been beaten to death but the way you're talking it seems like for you apple is god and they didnt copy anything...and you posting about samsung winning doesnt say otherwise since you posted that to spite samsung. But what you said is correct, i wonder what samsung is saying over there...
touche
i feel like the more i look into this the more lost i get. Did Samsung not try to license anything? more importantly what about google? Cause doesnt pinch to zoom fall under android? Why are the software patents going after samsung and not google, when google made the software?
i know it has been beaten to death but the way you're talking it seems like for you apple is god and they didnt copy anything...and you posting about samsung winning doesnt say otherwise since you posted that to spite samsung. But what you said is correct, i wonder what samsung is saying over there...
touche
i feel like the more i look into this the more lost i get. Did Samsung not try to license anything? more importantly what about google? Cause doesnt pinch to zoom fall under android? Why are the software patents going after samsung and not google, when google made the software?
#45
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I saw this summary of what apple won and what was thrown out and what Samsung won
The 9-person jury was asked to fill out a 20-page jury form with more than 700 questions across 33 groups. They were required to come to a unanimous decision on each question and court-watchers didn't expect a verdict until at least next week.
The following is our liveblog as the verdict was written:
The jury was asked to fill out a form covering 33 separate questions regarding patents, trade dress, and antitrust.
On the first claim, regarding the '381 "bounce back" patent, the jury finds Samsung guilty on all counts. Samsung infringed on Apple's patent on a wide variety of products.
On Apple's "pinch and zoom" '915 patent, the jury found that Samsung infringed on all but three products.
For the "double-tap to zoom" '163 patent, the jury found that Samsung infringed on a wide number of products, but not all.
The jury found that Samsung took actions that it knew or should have known were infringing across the '381, '915, and '163 patents on most, though not on all, counts.
For the '677 patent, covering Apple's trade dress registration of the look of the front of the iPhone, the jury found that Samsung did infringe on most devices, but again, not all.
For the D'087 patent, covering Apple's trade dress registration of the look of the back of the iPhone, the jury found that Samsung did infringe on some devices, but not all.
For the '305 patent, covering the trade dress registration of the iPhone's home screen, the jury found that Samsung infringed across most devices.
For the D'889 patent, covering the trade dress registration of the iPad's appearance, the jury found that Samsung's tablets do not infringe -- one of the first victories for Samsung.
On the question of whether Samsung Korea knew or should have known it was inducing US subsidiaries to infringe on the D'677, D'087, D'305 and/or D'889 patents, the jury found in favor of Apple across a wide number of phones and patents, though not on the '889 patent regarding the iPad. These two questions are significant for Apple to receive damages.
On the question of whether Samsung's infringement was willful, the jury again found for Apple on a number of patents and devices.
Finally, the jury ruled that all of Apple's patents are valid.
Regarding trade dress, Apple has proven that its unregistered iPhone 3G trade dress was protectable, and the jury found that a number of Samsung phone models violated Apple's trade dress, though not all of them.
Overall, the jury is finding for Apple on most counts.
Regarding damages, the jury finds that Apple should be awarded $1,051,855,000 in damages for willfully violating Apple's patents and trade dress.
Next up are Samsung's claims against Apple.
The jury has found for Apple regarding its alleged infringement of Samsung's utility patents on every claim, however Apple did not prove they were invalid. The jury did not award Samsung any damages.
Finally, Apple did not prove that Samsung violated antitrust obligations regarding its FRAND patents.
Apple did prove that Samsung is barred from enforcing its '516 and '941 patents.
The following is our liveblog as the verdict was written:
The jury was asked to fill out a form covering 33 separate questions regarding patents, trade dress, and antitrust.
On the first claim, regarding the '381 "bounce back" patent, the jury finds Samsung guilty on all counts. Samsung infringed on Apple's patent on a wide variety of products.
On Apple's "pinch and zoom" '915 patent, the jury found that Samsung infringed on all but three products.
For the "double-tap to zoom" '163 patent, the jury found that Samsung infringed on a wide number of products, but not all.
The jury found that Samsung took actions that it knew or should have known were infringing across the '381, '915, and '163 patents on most, though not on all, counts.
For the '677 patent, covering Apple's trade dress registration of the look of the front of the iPhone, the jury found that Samsung did infringe on most devices, but again, not all.
For the D'087 patent, covering Apple's trade dress registration of the look of the back of the iPhone, the jury found that Samsung did infringe on some devices, but not all.
For the '305 patent, covering the trade dress registration of the iPhone's home screen, the jury found that Samsung infringed across most devices.
For the D'889 patent, covering the trade dress registration of the iPad's appearance, the jury found that Samsung's tablets do not infringe -- one of the first victories for Samsung.
On the question of whether Samsung Korea knew or should have known it was inducing US subsidiaries to infringe on the D'677, D'087, D'305 and/or D'889 patents, the jury found in favor of Apple across a wide number of phones and patents, though not on the '889 patent regarding the iPad. These two questions are significant for Apple to receive damages.
On the question of whether Samsung's infringement was willful, the jury again found for Apple on a number of patents and devices.
Finally, the jury ruled that all of Apple's patents are valid.
Regarding trade dress, Apple has proven that its unregistered iPhone 3G trade dress was protectable, and the jury found that a number of Samsung phone models violated Apple's trade dress, though not all of them.
Overall, the jury is finding for Apple on most counts.
Regarding damages, the jury finds that Apple should be awarded $1,051,855,000 in damages for willfully violating Apple's patents and trade dress.
Next up are Samsung's claims against Apple.
The jury has found for Apple regarding its alleged infringement of Samsung's utility patents on every claim, however Apple did not prove they were invalid. The jury did not award Samsung any damages.
Finally, Apple did not prove that Samsung violated antitrust obligations regarding its FRAND patents.
Apple did prove that Samsung is barred from enforcing its '516 and '941 patents.
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#46
Sanest Florida Man
Sucks about the multitouch patents though. Curious why previous work like Jeff han's didn't invalidate them...
#47
Sanest Florida Man
We are grateful to the jury for their service and for investing the time to listen to our story and we were thrilled to be able to finally tell it. The mountain of evidence presented during the trail showed that Samsung’s copying went far deeper than even we knew. The lawsuits between Apple and Samsung were about much more than patents or money. They were about values. At Apple, we value originality and innovation and pour our lives into making the best products on earth. We make these products to delight our customers, not for our competitors to flagrantly copy. We applaud the court for finding Samsung’s behavior willful and for sending a loud and clear message that stealing isn’t right.
#48
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i thought this excerpt from the internal Samsung document comparing the iPhone with the Galaxy S was the funniest thing..
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#51
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so its been 1 year since Steve Jobs stepped down as CEO and Tim Cook took over the helm.
you guys think he did well?
you guys think he did well?
#52
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memo from Tim Cook.
Originally Posted by Tim Cook
Today was an important day for Apple and for innovators everywhere.
Many of you have been closely following the trial against Samsung in San Jose for the past few weeks. We chose legal action very reluctantly and only after repeatedly asking Samsung to stop copying our work. For us this lawsuit has always been about something much more important than patents or money. It’s about values. We value originality and innovation and pour our lives into making the best products on earth. And we do this to delight our customers, not for competitors to flagrantly copy.
We owe a debt of gratitude to the jury who invested their time in listening to our story. We were thrilled to finally have the opportunity to tell it. The mountain of evidence presented during the trial showed that Samsung’s copying went far deeper than we knew.
The jury has now spoken. We applaud them for finding Samsung’s behavior willful and for sending a loud and clear message that stealing isn’t right.
I am very proud of the work that each of you do.
Today, values have won and I hope the whole world listens.
Tim
Many of you have been closely following the trial against Samsung in San Jose for the past few weeks. We chose legal action very reluctantly and only after repeatedly asking Samsung to stop copying our work. For us this lawsuit has always been about something much more important than patents or money. It’s about values. We value originality and innovation and pour our lives into making the best products on earth. And we do this to delight our customers, not for competitors to flagrantly copy.
We owe a debt of gratitude to the jury who invested their time in listening to our story. We were thrilled to finally have the opportunity to tell it. The mountain of evidence presented during the trial showed that Samsung’s copying went far deeper than we knew.
The jury has now spoken. We applaud them for finding Samsung’s behavior willful and for sending a loud and clear message that stealing isn’t right.
I am very proud of the work that each of you do.
Today, values have won and I hope the whole world listens.
Tim
#54
Sanest Florida Man
Though you can notice they change in their advertising. Steve used to be pretty involved in that aspect, their latest ads with that Genius guy are horrible and they quickly dropped them, I don't think those would've come out under steve
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#56
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Still to early to declare him a success, wait for the iphone 6 and 6s (7) and other products around that time to see how they do.
Though you can notice they change in their advertising. Steve used to be pretty involved in that aspect, their latest ads with that Genius guy are horrible and they quickly dropped them, I don't think those would've come out under steve
Though you can notice they change in their advertising. Steve used to be pretty involved in that aspect, their latest ads with that Genius guy are horrible and they quickly dropped them, I don't think those would've come out under steve
but i do think the retina macbook pro ad was nice.
#57
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Still to early to declare him a success, wait for the iphone 6 and 6s (7) and other products around that time to see how they do.
Though you can notice they change in their advertising. Steve used to be pretty involved in that aspect, their latest ads with that Genius guy are horrible and they quickly dropped them, I don't think those would've come out under steve
Though you can notice they change in their advertising. Steve used to be pretty involved in that aspect, their latest ads with that Genius guy are horrible and they quickly dropped them, I don't think those would've come out under steve
But, what you can do is look at Apple's market standing since Jobs passed away...and well, it has not really faltered and with this landmark win (although, Sammy will appeal and etc. etc.), gotten arguably stronger. Their stocks shot up just a few hours ago, no?
Although, from a social standpoint, let's see...Maybe Apple needs to go back to more ingenious marketing since there may be some negativity for the Samsung/Apple litigations.
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another 52 week high
#59
Sanest Florida Man
yeah their stocks doing great, that things got level out or drop at some point, right?
#60
Go Giants
Buy buy buy!!
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#62
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it's traditional fundamentals are still very strong, from a pure financials perspective there's still lots of room to ramp up share value. Their p/e ratio's and liquidity are very strong even after initiating a dividend. I think going into Q4 your seeing new product sales already being priced into the stock. I would hold off buying until we see the sept/oct meetings were we typically see corrections from rumours and can evaluate new product sales more accurately.
#63
Senior Moderator
It'll be interesting to see what happens on the component-supplying relationship between Sammy and Apple.
Will Samsung continue to be a supplier of Apple?
Will Samsung continue to be a supplier of Apple?
#64
Sanest Florida Man
Yes, Sammy would still love to be an Apple supplier, they're probably their biggest customer.
the 4s uses Hynix NAND Flash instead of Samsung NAND Flash like previous iPhones used, but Samsung still makes all the A4/A5/A5x CPUs and the iPad retina display. Samsung would be crazy to stop making those
the 4s uses Hynix NAND Flash instead of Samsung NAND Flash like previous iPhones used, but Samsung still makes all the A4/A5/A5x CPUs and the iPad retina display. Samsung would be crazy to stop making those
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With how many damn iPhones there are out there and will be out there. It wouldn't make sense not to supply for apple and lose revenue.
#66
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Observation from a blogger on Plus...agree/disagree?
I'm sitting in a Starbucks doing random whatever over an iced americano. While I waiting for my drink, I watched a guy with his friend, pick up a newspaper; and start to remark on the Samsung Apple verdict.
Guy: "Wait, so what they're saying is, Samsung is the same as Apple?"
Friend: "I know, right? Makes me think twice about how much I paid for my Mac Book"
Guy: "Seriously"
Not 10 minutes later, a husband and wife, same newspaper:
Husband: "... Samsung's iPad is the same as Apple's iPad, and I paid how much for the Apple one? Honey, I told you they were a ripoff", after looking up the Samsung tablet on his iPhone.
Wife: "Oh wow," looking at the screen, "... that's a lot cheaper. Think we can return it?"
I put my Samsung QX410 on my table, and started to plug in, when he leans over to me, "Sorry, you don't mind if I ask, how much did you pay for your Samsung laptop?"
"Oh, no worries, it was $700." I replied.
I watched shock overcome his face, like actual shock. He looked at me, blankly, for an awkward amount of time, "Mind if I have a look?" he asked.
So, I obliged, and showed him a few things. He commented on Windows 7, so I opened up my virtual machine of OS/X... By the time the conversation was over, he was ready to kick Cupertino in the nuts, I think.
... Now, the punchline:
I'm writing this post after the FOURTH group of Starbucks patrons have made the connection that Samsung is now the same as Apple. They don't know the details, they don't really care, what they know is Apple is saying that Samsung is the same as Apple ... and with one simple Google Search, you get prices that are basically half for what seems to be the same products -- for nearly everything.
Two of these groups (including the husband/wife) asked me about my Samsung laptop, the second group noticed my Galaxy phone (also by Samsung)... Best billion dollar ad-campaign Samsung ever had.
Guy: "Wait, so what they're saying is, Samsung is the same as Apple?"
Friend: "I know, right? Makes me think twice about how much I paid for my Mac Book"
Guy: "Seriously"
Not 10 minutes later, a husband and wife, same newspaper:
Husband: "... Samsung's iPad is the same as Apple's iPad, and I paid how much for the Apple one? Honey, I told you they were a ripoff", after looking up the Samsung tablet on his iPhone.
Wife: "Oh wow," looking at the screen, "... that's a lot cheaper. Think we can return it?"
I put my Samsung QX410 on my table, and started to plug in, when he leans over to me, "Sorry, you don't mind if I ask, how much did you pay for your Samsung laptop?"
"Oh, no worries, it was $700." I replied.
I watched shock overcome his face, like actual shock. He looked at me, blankly, for an awkward amount of time, "Mind if I have a look?" he asked.
So, I obliged, and showed him a few things. He commented on Windows 7, so I opened up my virtual machine of OS/X... By the time the conversation was over, he was ready to kick Cupertino in the nuts, I think.
... Now, the punchline:
I'm writing this post after the FOURTH group of Starbucks patrons have made the connection that Samsung is now the same as Apple. They don't know the details, they don't really care, what they know is Apple is saying that Samsung is the same as Apple ... and with one simple Google Search, you get prices that are basically half for what seems to be the same products -- for nearly everything.
Two of these groups (including the husband/wife) asked me about my Samsung laptop, the second group noticed my Galaxy phone (also by Samsung)... Best billion dollar ad-campaign Samsung ever had.
#67
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All that article confirms is that people are fucking retards.
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#69
Yep. While it may generate interest in Samsung products now, I'm sure plenty more people now think that Samsung just rips off Apple.
#70
Suzuka Master
best billion dollar ad campaign? hell no haha... there are stupid people but not that many...
Ohh I will admit that samsung def has copied apple in laptops. When i first saw one, i saw that it also had a mini display port... now i dunno about how many pc's have that but that was my first time not seeing it on a mac haha and other aesthetics are similar to macs.
Ohh I will admit that samsung def has copied apple in laptops. When i first saw one, i saw that it also had a mini display port... now i dunno about how many pc's have that but that was my first time not seeing it on a mac haha and other aesthetics are similar to macs.
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#72
They probably will, seeing as their current CEO is much more of a philanthropist than his predecessor was.
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In the wake of Apple's $1 billion victory over Samsung in its high-profile lawsuit over patent and trade dress issues, The Verge reports that the company has officially requested U.S. sales bans on eight Samsung smartphones found by the jury to infringe upon Apple's intellectual property.
- Galaxy S 4G
- Galaxy S2 (AT&T)
- Galaxy S2 (Skyrocket)
- Galaxy S2 (T-Mobile)
- Galaxy S2 Epic 4G
- Galaxy S Showcase
- Droid Charge
- Galaxy Prevail
The report notes that impact of any sales bans would likely be negligible, as most of the cited products have already been discontinued in the U.S. in favor of successor devices.
Apple is requesting a preliminary injunction covering these eight devices out of the 28 devices at stake in the trial, but is reserving its rights for a future permanent injunction request in favor of moving quickly to ban sales of this subset of devices.
- Galaxy S 4G
- Galaxy S2 (AT&T)
- Galaxy S2 (Skyrocket)
- Galaxy S2 (T-Mobile)
- Galaxy S2 Epic 4G
- Galaxy S Showcase
- Droid Charge
- Galaxy Prevail
The report notes that impact of any sales bans would likely be negligible, as most of the cited products have already been discontinued in the U.S. in favor of successor devices.
Apple is requesting a preliminary injunction covering these eight devices out of the 28 devices at stake in the trial, but is reserving its rights for a future permanent injunction request in favor of moving quickly to ban sales of this subset of devices.
#74
I drive a Subata.
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Will Samsung be able to sell their new devices?
BECAUSE ALL I WANT IS THE GALAXY NOTE 2!
BECAUSE ALL I WANT IS THE GALAXY NOTE 2!
#75
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#76
I'm Down Right Fierce!
I have friends who are like "Samsung will appeal! It's ok!" Yeah right.. Samsung will appeal and lo and behold the jury verdict will be upheld - unless theres a finding of gross misconduct/application of law - which likely there wasnt.
I've been talking with a friend who practices patent law and he said it best:
"Good job, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, you have fucked all of america because you think apple = leet."
I've been talking with a friend who practices patent law and he said it best:
"Good job, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, you have fucked all of america because you think apple = leet."
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#77
I'm Down Right Fierce!
TLDR: I think you're safe in
Last edited by BraveDemon; 08-27-2012 at 05:44 PM.
#78
I have friends who are like "Samsung will appeal! It's ok!" Yeah right.. Samsung will appeal and lo and behold the jury verdict will be upheld - unless theres a finding of gross misconduct/application of law - which likely there wasnt.
I've been talking with a friend who practices patent law and he said it best:
"Good job, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, you have fucked all of america because you think apple = leet."
I've been talking with a friend who practices patent law and he said it best:
"Good job, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, you have fucked all of america because you think apple = leet."
#79
Moderator Alumnus
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/201...-factors.shtml
http://gizmodo.com/5938219/why-the-a...ay-not-hold-up
I like this part:
The Verge also reported that the jury foreman, who is a patent holder himself [this appears to be his patent, "Method and apparatus for recording and storing video information"], told court officials that the jury didn't need the answer to its question to reach a verdict:
I like the juror quote : 'we skipped that [patent] - it was bogging us down'.
In fact, this whole trial is bogging us down - how about we just give apple 1 billion dollars and call it a day? Done.
- Frank
Last edited by ChodTheWacko; 08-28-2012 at 12:44 AM.
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#80
I just stumbled upon this...
http://www.androidpit.com/google-vs-apple-android
http://www.androidpit.com/google-vs-apple-android
I knew this day would come. I can’t say that I hoped for it, but in all honesty, it was inevitable. Apple has been very busy lately in doing all it can to ban as many Android devices as it can, and HTC, Samsung, and Motorola have all recently got a small taste of the Apple juice lately. But something has changed: Google now owns Motorola, and aren’t wasting any time in defending their new acquisition, as they are now seeking a sales ban on the iPhone, iPad, and Mac computers in the US. This time, it’s personal, and contains a twist that could make this particular lawsuit a very dangerous one for Apple.
This is the first case that Google has signed off on in defending their new hardware company, meaning that there’s no more lurking in the background providing support. This is full on Google with their law team directly involved. Thsi isn't Google watching from the sidelines, but instead, they are calling this one play by play. But Google and Motorola were clever, as this isn't a lawsuit that focuses on silly topics such as icons or square shaped tablets.
Google and Motorola are filing patent infringement for non-standard essential patents. To put it simply, Google-rola has filed a case for a patent/patents that courts cannot legally force companies to patent, meaning that if they win this case, Apple could be forced to completely stop using the technology in their devices.
We don’t have confirmation on exactly which Wifi related patent is in question here, but we do know that Motorola attempted to reach licensing agreements with Apple (since 2010), which Apple apparently refused. Motorola stated that:
This is a big one for Google and for Apple. This isn’t just an OEM that Apple is dealing with now. This is one of the most powerful (if not THE most powerful) movers and shakers in the world. If this comes to trial, Apple will have its hands full, and might even be forced to rely on Microsoft for backup.
The patent wars involving Android and Apple have now reached new heights, and with Google in the center, I have a feeling that things could get very very ugly for the companies that have sought to ban Android products.
This is the first case that Google has signed off on in defending their new hardware company, meaning that there’s no more lurking in the background providing support. This is full on Google with their law team directly involved. Thsi isn't Google watching from the sidelines, but instead, they are calling this one play by play. But Google and Motorola were clever, as this isn't a lawsuit that focuses on silly topics such as icons or square shaped tablets.
Google and Motorola are filing patent infringement for non-standard essential patents. To put it simply, Google-rola has filed a case for a patent/patents that courts cannot legally force companies to patent, meaning that if they win this case, Apple could be forced to completely stop using the technology in their devices.
We don’t have confirmation on exactly which Wifi related patent is in question here, but we do know that Motorola attempted to reach licensing agreements with Apple (since 2010), which Apple apparently refused. Motorola stated that:
“We would like to settle these patent matters, but Apple’s unwillingness to work out a license leaves us little choice but to defend ourselves and our engineers’ innovations”.
The patent wars involving Android and Apple have now reached new heights, and with Google in the center, I have a feeling that things could get very very ugly for the companies that have sought to ban Android products.