Yumcha

Welcome to the Trial by Pwnage.

Yeah, this game was a huge slap in the face. Just when I thought I had it, I got my @$$ handed to me. Even the "easiest" cannon-fodder enemy can take you out. It depends on which "build" you're after Doomie but I prefer the "tank" approach. So, near the end, my guy, while still easy to kill based on how the game is, was considered a tank...high in health and stamina.

And yes, keep your weapons upgraded. I am not sure what you have right now but I grew to love the Kirkhammer once I obtained it and then after I obtained Ludwig's Blade, that was the weapon of choice for me.

Have you fought Father Gascoigne yet? If you haven't...well, brace and um, cross yourself.

Yumcha

Still, easily one of the best games...ever. I still have not completed all the Chalice Dungeons but I blame Venom Snake and saving the world for that.

Doom878

I can go fight Father G now. I got the saw blade. I prefer it shorter and fast. I've been buidling vitality, strength, and endurance tho I'm reading I should work on skill too to increase my visceral kills. In checking reddit someone uploaded the Prima guide to Google Docs

Yumcha

Speed is important for sure.

It all depends on your preference. I had the Saw Blade initially as well...but, the bash (power) of the Kirkhammer proved to be useful after I picked it up.

Good luck against Father G.

Doom878

When did you upgrade to said hammer? Is it something I can buy from the Messenger now? Did it slow down your circle button dodges. I'm sure stamina got killed.

Doom878

Dude the first time I go in parried Father G like 3x and beat up on him good. With a slither of energy left he combos the fuck out of me. I literally could've shot him but I died. After that he was harder than before. I even had to reload blood vials because my stash got eaten into. This game REALLY pissed me off last night. Like I could still hit something I'm mad.

Yumcha

Yeah, when he turns into the monster, he goes literally beast-mode. I still get the heebie-jeebies fighting him...of ALL the bosses.

Seriously one of the hardest stage bosses I've ever fought in ANY platform/action game. Do you have the music box? If yes, use it. Play it to get him to react to it and whale away...by the 3rd time, I believe...or when his energy is lowered, it may not have much effect but hopefully, he is low enough that a well-placed combo or blow can take him down.

The strategy I used was actually lots of running for my life.

So, I'd run UP the stairs...jump down and circle back to the stairs...when enough distance has passed, I'll wait for him to approach, dodge a hit...shoot, and combo. Try that.

Yumcha

The Kirkhammer should be available now for you, Doomie. You can buy it after you get the badge from killing the Cleric Beast? Did you fight him yet? He's the giant bone-like thing on the bridge in Yharnam.

Doom878

Actually I downloaded the Prima guide and today I've literally been planning my game strategy. I printed out the 2 page map and have marked it up and written hints down. Major points!

I actually missed the Cleric Beast and missed a few sections in the map. I plan on getting the music box. I can buy the hammer and I saw the range helps after watching like 10 YouTube strategy videos on Father G. I don't want to summon him to help me fight the Cleric Beast. Is that what you did? But yeah after taking out the Beast, finding the music box, and some other stuff I'll go after Father G. I'm level 22 now so I hope to be built up to 25 before facing him.

Yumcha

Hmmm...okay, I think to summon an NPC character like Father G, you need to have a bell. FWIW, I never used it in my first play-through. The Cleric Beast is the FIRST boss and so, you may want to get rid of him first...he's quite easy. Just make sure you have enough potions and literally, button-mash away...not much strategy needed there.

Father G...he needs some strategy and button-mashing does NOT work. There are a few bosses like that, actually. The Kirkhammer in its 2nd form is too slow for the hunter and so, you will want to keep it as a sword against him.

Yeah, I would suggest you really explore Yharnam through and build up your powers before taking on Father G. I think I was Level 30 before I finally beat him.

Afterwards, it gets..."easier". Just remember, the moment you get too confident, the game shows you who is your uncle. But, yeah...IMO, Father G is the HARDEST boss you'll fight outside of the end-boss (true ending boss).

Yumcha

But, by the end, if you are properly skilled up character-wise and gaming-wise from practice, the end boss is manageable.

Yumcha

And Doomie...explore LOTS. This game rewards you for exploring and well, braving the paths. I replayed many many many maps before taking on the boss to ensure I had cleared the entire area of items and Blood Chunks/pieces. And believe me, you want lots and lots of those to upgrade your weaponry.

Doom878

Just find it odd I have to level up to 30 to fight the 2nd boss. The farming/playthrough ratio has been really uneven in this game so far.

BTW I use the Saw Clever +2. Are there a shitload of future weapons I should save blood shards for? I could easily buy the hammer and find more shards.

Doom878

Honestly I thought I did the same but realized at the fountain I missed the entrance to the well. And I thought I explored the aqueduct after beating Pumba but didn't.

Yumcha

Ah yeah...the sewers. Did you take out the giant screaming...pig? He leaves stuff. And if you have been knocking on doors and talking to the weirdos in the homes, you may have an idea what to do.

Yumcha

In Yharnam, my "run" to build up $$$ to buy stuff was start at the lamp at the top of the ladder where the sick dude is...if the gate is not yet open next to his door, I head right and take out all the villagers in the area and in the main town square. I then, defeat the dogs which takes me into the sewers...clear that area out...head up ONTO the bridge, take out the monsters there...do NOT go to the church...and then take the elevator back up into town to take care of the 2 ogres marching around. THEN, I head into the dark house, kill the crew in there...and head up to the bridge deck to the werewolves...using the door to cheat...I lure them down back into the house but they are too big to get in...and just hit them from afar. Then, when the wolves are killed, I head to the opposite end of the bridge deck (the other part of the upper level NOT where the Cleric Beast is) and kill off the birds, and head back down to the fountain...kill everything there...

And run back to a lantern, Hunter's Dream. Recoup and buy stuff. Repeat.

Yumcha

Later on, if you need a farming run for advanced stages, let me know. And whatever you do...do NOT bypass Castle Cainhurst. If you do not know how to get to that castle, look it up. I lucked on it because I was neurotic and like I said, went everywhere. But, I know people were impatient and completely missed that "bonus" level.

That stage was a godsend to farming $$$.

Doom878

Yeah that's why I said Pumba. That fucker has poisoned me.

Nice run. I already have the gate next to sick dude (Gilbert) so it's easy for me to visit Father G. At least farming is pretty fun vs a normal RPG where it's just pressing commands.

Yumcha

OH...

Pumba...totally missed that. I blame the cold meds.



Cool. Then, if you haven't done something like what I described as a run, try that instead. It will do a nice job of maxing out item drops and/or $$$ to buy your toys. There is NOTHING wrong with leveling up to a tank to beat a boss. Some show-offs online are fighting these mega-bosses like at Level 2 and well, I think while that is darn impressive, we are NOT that hardcore nor have the dedication to get THAT good. So, you have to be honest with yourself and compensate and at least get your character powered up enough to beat a boss without breaking your TV/controller.

This game is so unforgiving. The only other boss I can think that drove me nuts was the giant spider...but, um...you'll know what I'm talking about when you meet it.

Yumcha

And there is NOTHING wrong with screaming Mommy and running for your life. Live to fight another day and do NOT lose your $$$.

Yumcha

One more hint...there is one "death" you will want to have. It will be OUTSIDE of the cathedral and will be a monster you've never seen before in a corner who will...kinda obliterate you (he carries a giant bag/sack). And that's okay. Once you die, you'll go to some "hell" (like you aren't already?!?!?)...

Doom878

Yeah I have my favorite runs that I go on. I haven't fought the two werewolves since I'd hide from them so I'll add them to my run without going too close to the Beast. If I'm going for a boss run then yeah it's time to put on the running sneakers

Yumcha

Yeah, the wolves are among the hardest "regular" monsters in the game. Can kill in seconds.

Almost ALWAYS, there is a way to cheap kill them. Flee back to a door and they'll be too big to squeeze through. Switch your weapon up to long-range and slice away.

So, you can take those 2 wolves out easily by running back into the dark house. You want to fight these things because they do drop some nice treasures.

Yumcha

Wolves drop blood chunks later in the game...!

Doom878

Ok I got confused with the Hunter's Axe. The Kirkhammer doesn't show until after you beat the Cleric Beast. I beat his ass the first time I met him but Jesus is that guy intimidating with his long ass arm and height. Didn't use the bell either. So I bought the Kirkhammer after but don't have the attributes to use it yet. I think I need to upgrade my strength by one.

Yeah the wolves aren't hard but I run out of stamina after like 5 or 6 swipes on them. I need to make it where they die in 5 swipes before I lose stamina or up my stamina. Not as bad as I thought they'd be but they did catch me good once. Luckily easy recovery of blood echoes.

I also found Eileen and promptly attacked her Fortunately I don't really need her stuff but it would have been nice But Jesus she's strong and killed me once. Fortunately I didn't have to kill her to get my echoes back but she chases you through the sewer

I also really explored but forgot my notes at work so I missed the little girl. I did find the saw spear but I have to get it since I knocked it down. Did you ever use it? Also I found and some dudes were dropping shards like crazy. Should I upgrade my saw to +3 or use it for the hammer?

Yumcha

Ah yeah...forgot that the Kirkhammer is a strength-base weapon. Like I said, my build for my character was more for "tank" than ability and so, be cognizant of what attributes you are aiming for. If you're all agility then, the twin blades (dropped from Eileen), you'll absolutely love.

To kill the wolves behind a door, the easiest is find a weapon (i.e. like the spear which you found) that has long range. Go back far enough and do a charge attack in the alt-mode of the weapon. 2-3 of those and they are toast.

With Eileen, I did not attack her and chose to actually help her. You'll later encounter her fighting another hunter who if you are successful, will save her and apparently trigger a story event. I was not successful in saving her...actually, what sucked was that I killed the guy and at the same time, he killed me AND her...I believe the hunter's name is Henryk who works into the storyline too.

In general, you have opportunities to attack or be merciful...I usually took the latter route with the exception of a creepy guy (you can't miss him as he's sitting on a pile of dead bodies/bones) and just seemed...off. Just be warned if you attack this dude, he um...yeah. But again, you can cheat kill him like the Wolves which I figured out after a few attempts.

To the question about the Spear, I did not really use it except for reach. I would upgrade the weapon you like the most. So, it sounds like you are using the Sawblade lots and so, upgrade that. You'll have an opportunity to upgrade other weapons later. BUT...that being said, as I said, Ludwig's Holy Blade is IMO, the best weapon...so, if are close to getting that or already can buy it, I'd save up to upgrade THAT. But, you should have enough shards to upgrade a couple of weapons worth already. The Sawblade is a nice secondary weapon to use.

My choices towards the mid-late game was either the Kirkhammer and the Holy Blade...until the latter became so powerful that the Kirkhammer was pretty much obsolete since the charge attack in hammer-form was so slow and the range was not great.

Hope that helps! The little girl is in Yharnam at a set of stairs before a ladder that leads to the lower part of the town that overlooks the sewers...near the fountain.

Doom878

Nice thanks! Did you bother upgrading the Kirkhammer too? My saw can get one more +1 and then I can stick gems in it. Just need the gems

Yumcha

Yeah, per what I said, before I got the Holy Blade, it was Kirkhammer pretty much all the time. It got upgraded pretty good...I got good at timing the charge and just flattening whatever was approaching. Obviously, with very fast enemies (i.e. birds or dogs), you can't use it in the hammer form as effectively or charging it.

If you are patient with the game and spend time mining, you should be able to generally NEAR-max most of your favorite weapons. In order to FULL max, there is only one Blood item for that and that should be reserved for your favorite weapon and the one you know you'll go to war against the bosses with towards the end. BTW, getting this final Blood piece takes some...exploring. I kinda happened on it and it had more to do with my need for revenge on something that drove me nuts in one of the latter stages...

But, I would be surprised if you used more than 2-3 main weaponry to be honest. You settle on a favorite and just go from there. The final weapon you can get, which is quite the killing machine isn't obtainable until you fight the end (REAL END -- there are multiple endings) boss.

But, the blade itself is useful. Gems are good stuff...especially the ones that build up your stats. Keep an eye out for them...there are some really awesome ones that turn up later on.

You'll love Runes too.

Yumcha

That "something" is similar to Sauron from Lord of the Rings...

Doom878

So crossed off every box on my list. Fully explored Central Yharnam. Got every puzzle piece. Got the hammer. Upgraded it once. Level 27 now I think. Got the music box. Still lose to Father G. 0-3 last night. Second time had him down to probably 2 swipes but fuck he's so fast. Back pedaling and rolling seems to get stuck as if my fucking PS4 can't handle the RAM. The first 2 forms I have little issue with and I still use my saw blade on him as I'm still getting used to the hammer's lack of speed. When he goes beast mode my guy just gets stuck. I've got my endurance high as hell too. Going to up my vitality more. Only have tonight as I'm going to Universal this weekend. He needs to go down tonight.

Yumcha

I'm laughing not at you but at remembering the same experience. As I said, you have not fought a boss until you passed Father G. He truly shows who's your Daddy.

K...so, my suggestion if you are still having problems is what I did to finally take him down:

Try to upgrade THE weapon you believe you will use to fight. So, if it's the Kirkhammer (which I used), then do so. You need to be strong enough to bring down his health significantly after you play the music box...and I mean, significantly after you have wailed away with the 1 box play. He will change immediately. Ensure you health is back full and also make sure you have blood vials at the ready.

I was successful in hucking a Molotov cocktail at him. He appears to be vulnerable to fire. 1 or 2 is enough to drain him more...at this point, his health is very low even if he's wailing away. Engage him and you should be able to get in a charged hit or just a regular slash or 2...he will be done.

You won't deal with another boss of this magnitude until the true end-game. But, by then, you'll be strong if you've been resourceful in the game.

Good luck! This is a rite of manhood!

Yumcha

I recall I was close to Level 30 too when I took down Father G. My build was mainly health, stamina and strength. I

Doom878

Finallllllllllyyyyyy. Ok so I was level 27 vitality, endurance, and strength about even I think level 15 to 16 with skill not too far behind. The hammer def made it easier. It makes him stumble and he can't trade with you like when I used the saw cleaver. My endurance was good enough for 3 solid hits and then jump to the side. When he switches to long axe mode it puts him at a disadvantage because his speed decreases. Plus a few plays of the music box made it easier. Never more than 2 to avoid beastmode.

Now beast mode is where it gets interesting. After much reading and failed experimentation, I realized that I need to get the fuck away from him at the time of transformation. I realized that by running up the stairs while he wigs out buys me time to reload health and take a breather. The problem was that all those long straightaways makes throwing molotovs at him a waste because he would always jump over them. I think I landed like 1 out of 20 over various playthroughs. There was no strategic advantage to me at all. After running which seemed like 200 laps around the course last night I realized he has trouble changing direction, specifically angles. Well he destroys graves and trees aren't big enough to blockade him. Of course, the crypt in the middle. So some basic stick and move and I was able to carefully pick him off little by little. For the last hit I was so damn nervous I even missed and he hit me twice so my health disappeared quick. I swear I haven't been this nervous since Ray Allen game 6 Well when I turned and got him let's just say my grunts of victory sounded a little manlier than the beast's.

Yumcha

Congrats on your Rite of Manhood!

You finally showed Daddy G what you're made of. So, we took slightly differing strategies to take him down but in the end, getting past him is what matters the most. So, up next is the church. Same strategy as before...explore lots. There are some monsters coming up that can pack a wallop. Be careful.

And remember what I had told you about that ONE monster that is different and sorta by himself near the cathedral? It's not yet but he will soon appear if you progress long enough...allow him to kill you to enter a secret location with more...bad beasts. But, worth lots of $$$ and good place to build up your powers!

Yumcha

BTW, you will soon be making a decision on who you send villagers to for sanctuary. What you do has interesting repercussions.

Yumcha

I'm also happy you liked the Kirkhammer. I think you now know why I loved it so much. BTW, if you like it that much...wait until you get Ludwig's Blade and power it up.

Doom878

Yeah I've been cheat reading a little and saw that the little girl might get killed depending what I do. I might play for an hour today before leaving but I'll be out of commission till probably Monday at the earliest

Yumcha

Well, given how hard this game is, it's understandable you peeked to see what you need to do (WUSS!!).

But, seriously...I can relate. I think I was ready to look online for help against Father G after dying to him so many (and it was freaking many) times. To this day, I think when I finally took him down, it was partly luck and because my level was just so high...but whatever, a win's a win!


So, are you sold on the Kirkhammer as your weapon going forward?

Yumcha

Talking about this game makes me want to play through the NG+ mode...but, gotta finish MGSV first!

Doom878

My saw is up to +3. I tried my +1 hammer on those huge giants and got owned. I went back with my saw and tore them up. I work better with the speed I think.