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Correct. Reason being NOS adds an irresponsible amount of HP instantly. For example, a 200 shot nos, the kit being around 300-400 dollars, with a few more dollars for a full tanks of No2 add 200 horsepower instantly, with no regard to emission, whereas turbo/super-charger add around 15-25% hp, most of the time less, and cost upwards to 7000 dollars, AND meets emission standards. It's quite obvious why NOS would be considered illegal and turbo/super-chargers arn't.
Not quite. My car made 190ish with no boost. 602hp approaching 30psi. Do the math. Granted the motor was built around the turbo with 8.0:1 compression, cam optimized for FI, low timing, and stock internals limit it to 6K rpm.
I think part of the reason nitrous is considered bad is that it's so cheap any idiot can afford it and slap it on. Most don't upgrade the fuel system, don't have window switches and such, don't know how to tune, faulty wiring at best, and it's instant. With the turbo you have a second or so to back out of the throttle if something goes wrong. I've seen people spray and have a fuel solenoid stick and instantly grenade the motor. Saw a C5 owner hit it in the burnout box when his car started to bog down during the burnout and had to be towed home. Is it the nitrous's fault? No, but it is easier to screw up than a turbo or supercharger. I can think of one time I was bringing it into boost slowly and the secondary fuel pump didn't kick on but I had time to back out of it when my knock detector went crazy.
Limitations? You guys haven't even broken into the mid 13s yet. The FWD GTP community has cars in the 9s, and some of the cars running 11s have bolt-on turbo kits. Torque steer can be a bitch, but LSDs are handy with that. Then again, most of you guys aren't looking to make the TL into a drag car, but it wouldn't hurt to run 12s on a DD.
This was quite amusing for some reason. I guess it's because I've never seen a TL at the track, even supercharged on any sort of tire. Just stock radials with the pressure lowered lol. Low 14s and 104mph, I wonder what could be holding them back? I went to the track on regular radials once and went home with my head low after a string of high 12 second passes at just over 120mph. Didn't help that the imports were dragging water onto the track though.
Nitrous oxide is stored as a compressed liquid when it's in the bottle. Without getting into exact specifics, the bottle pressure can be 1,000 psi. Atmospheric pressure is 14.7. When nitrous is released from the bottle, it goes from 1,000 psi to 14.7 psi instantly and turns from a liquid into a gas. This is an endothermic process.
Nitrous Oxide is N20 or two nitrogen molecules and 1 oxygen molecule. The most common use of N20 is for the medical industry. Make no mistake, nitrous oxide for cars contains sulfur so you DO NOT want to inhale it.
Allow me to give you an example. Take some small amount of gasoline and place a drop on the palm of you hand on a very hot day. Does the gasoline feel cold? You bet it does. The same applies for Acetone, alcohol, kerosene, etc. Mostly anything in the Keytone family will do.
Anyhow, place a thermometer in the acetone or gasoline. I bet it's the same temperature as it is outside (ambient). How could that be? The reason it feels cold to the touch is due to it evaporating quickly. The quick evaporation process is endothermic and pulls heat away. Nitrous oxide gets cold quickly...enough to cool most supercharged air temperatures (ACT's) by 70-80 degrees F.
Nitrous oxide contains nitrogen and oxygen. The nitrogen is used to stop the uncontrollable burn rate of pure oxygen. If you injected pure compressed oxygen into a combustion engine, chances are you'd find the limitations of aluminum and iron.
Nitrous must be met with more fuel. This is not something you can do later or jerry ring around. Remember what determines power output of any gasoline engine is how efficiently it burns fuel. Air is a limiting factor in power production. So adding more oxygen (denser/colder air packs more 02 content) means you must add more fuel. Period.
The biggest mistake that I see is not using a bottle warmer with nitrous oxide. Most people don't use them and they pay the price. In the winter during colder air temps, the bottle doesn't get as hot as it does in the summer.
If the car is tuned for either the winter or summer without a bottle warmer, you are in serious trouble. As the bottle cools off, pressure drops in the bottle. This means you flow a different amount of nitrous when it's released.
I've seen cars that were tuned in the summer hurt the motor when the cold weather comes and they use the nitrous. Most lift heat gaskets and some crack ring lands.
It is that sensitive...trust me. Nitrous is actually compression friendly unlike a blower or turbo. In reality, NOS works well with the TL's high compression ratio. The weakest link is the engine internals and how well they can handle the increased cylinder pressure.
With nitrous you need more fuel, good judgment, a bottle warmer, a good tune and just plain good luck.
not trying to hi jack thread but i went to one of my friend's friend's shop to see if he could install my nitrous system in the TL. He refused to do it because he didnt want to be responsible for me blowing my engine but he said a 75 shot is the most for our engines without fuckin shit up. BUTTT he told me about his other friend and we called him up and he told me to come down to his shop which is a while from where i live and i wil change my min don nitrous. He said he could build a turbo for the TL but after viewing so many time wasting threads on here about turbo's im a lil hesistant. but either way i will let you guys know in a few weeks about what i do and what effects either each one has.
not trying to hi jack thread but i went to one of my friend's friend's shop to see if he could install my nitrous system in the TL. He refused to do it because he didnt want to be responsible for me blowing my engine but he said a 75 shot is the most for our engines without fuckin shit up. BUTTT he told me about his other friend and we called him up and he told me to come down to his shop which is a while from where i live and i wil change my min don nitrous. He said he could build a turbo for the TL but after viewing so many time wasting threads on here about turbo's im a lil hesistant. but either way i will let you guys know in a few weeks about what i do and what effects either each one has.
Dump the turbo not unless you have deep pockets. Imagine. Story just for fun. I raced a 98 Mustang Cobra with my 97 Lude 100 shot. Got him by 2-3 cars, started 20mph rolling and ended about middle of forth. He asked me what I had and I told him not to feel bad because I have nitrous. He quickly replied, "WHAT, I got a supercharger in this." I believe I had a permanent smile that night. Also, I finally got some $ to get a Greddy kit for the Lude. Spent about $4K w tuning. It was truly fun driving and hearing the BOV+showing off(the best part) but that's about it, it was just as fast as when I had nitrous(complete $1000). She was pushing 270whp @ 10 psi stock motor. You do the math. I didn't listen to myself either haha, she's all built now pushin over 500whp, for what? I still don't know! I could have paid some of my bills instead. Don't do what I did. I guess it's in my blood, I'm ready to retire racing soon, so she has to go soon. Maybe?
Let's not get in a pissing match over what's better. The extra power from a turbo/supercharger is always there, comes on softer, and contrary to what most people in this thread think, is easier on the internals. I was trying to stay out of this debate but lets just say that everyone I know that has sprayed their car for any length of time has hurt something. On the other hand, I was in the 13s with a stock factory turbo setup, ran mid 11s for 4 years on the factory longblock, and did a rebuild at 220K. I would love to see someone take a NA 3.8L even with the turbo bottom end and spray a 500 shot to match my power and last an entire 1/4 pass. Won't happen.
Hmmm, I dunno… You guys may have lots of experience toying with the juice, but I think this is an apples-to-oranges comparison when talking about J series motors. And it was on another thread here re f.i. where observations were made re the very thin rods and deficiencies in the TL’s piston ring layout.
This not to say Honda’s got an inferior product, but rather that they’ve engineered it to the point of their chassis, an entry level luxury sport family sedan. Modern engineering employs finite element analysis (FIE) to engineer a predetermined point of failure that from a business perspective manages cost, weight, size, reliability, etc. in light of the engine’s intended use. I’ll bet most JDM 4 cylinder DOHC motors have a lot more ‘cushion’ than Honda’s V6 SOHC engines.
Comptech has the established engineering credibility, they know their stuff…it’s no accident they’ve kept the boost on their superchargers low.
Nitrous use comes with experience and knowing the proper procedures. My stock Civic was on the juice for 4 years with Jacobs Nitrous Mastermind, pretty well abused
in the street and seen about 30 drag strip runs 1/8 mile. Only close calls was when I miss shifted to 3rd, filter blew out and other when I melted my plugs, wife put 87 octane, lucky didn't detonate, just kinda surged and I stopped because I knew something was wrong. Couple years after, I rebuilt and turbo'd it. I love them both but $ ratio is about 3 or 4:1. Oh well, use them both. Good luck to everyone's future goals.
I just completed the BAYA 5AT AV6 trans swap from a 06 Accord an then I bought a full nitrous express kit i am about to put a 100 wet shot on my 03 Tl Type S Aspec ill post pictures soon
10-25-2007, 09:51 AM
Wow...
