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The 2009-11 4rd gen TL also got lots of negative comments about its peak, but people still enjoyed it overall. So now that a car costs UP TO 71K, we can trash it on looks alone? Not to mention it's interior is more functional than Type-S and can prove itself on track. This thread feels like a garbage can calling a recycling bin trash ...
Last edited by pyrodan007; 12-29-2021 at 03:47 PM.
Not sure why you feel I googled numbers when my only reference to prices was the article in question. As to available discounts what you got in 2019 is simply old news. It is not relevant in today’s market place. Bottom line is that even if you go RWD only and match Type S features the M340i is going to sticker at least $8,000 more than the Type S. Why folks want to negate this is mystifying to me. Yes, from a performance standpoint the M340 is a better car than the Type S, but you got to pay for that additional performance.
Why is this a bone of contention. Ray Charles if he were still alive could see an M340 costs more than a Type-S. How much more can be greatly exaggerated over what the actual take rate is by picking every possible item available for a M340. But I don't think that is relevant.
You get up to $72,000 for a M340 & you have covered the base price for both an M3 & M4. Someone buying a performance car might just move to the M cars. The M3/4 forums show more than a few being bought at or near base. Especially popular with those that want an 6MT version without AWD.
When you do the $8,000+ thing you are matching AWD to AWD. Point is up till the M3/4 AWD is pretty much a negative with the M340 unless you live in the snow belt. It provides no value in the rest of the country. It just adds weight to a RWD based car outside of that region. So thats $2,000 off the $8,000 without even looking hard at what the item for item match up is.
There might be some other items forced on the "S" buyer by Hondas pricing that they would not buy as a stand alone item. The "S" requires the AWD because its a FWD biased car trying to reduce understeer & manage the horsepower's traction. The M3/4 Competition are AWD to manage the 503 horsepower's traction but can be driven as pure RWD cars with a button push.
Personally think most is driven by Acura marketing & their "why the Type-S is better than X brand charts" & some fans that really want them to be comparable. IIRC they had performance labeled chart for the TLX VS M340 but never compared actual performance, not even gas mileage. Have never seen BMW marketing or any other German brand even mention Acura. Come to think of it have not seen anyone mention Acura but Acura.
As for the brands BMW & Acura they have two different philosophy's one is price driven the other is performance driven. Performance will always cost more. That said the 4 cylinder 330 performance is surprisingly close to the Type S by Car & Drivers numbers.
The 2009-11 4rd gen TL also got lots of negative comments about its peak, but people still enjoyed it overall. So now that a car costs UP TO 71K, we can trash it on looks alone? Not to mention it's interior is more functional than Type-S and can prove itself on track. This thread feels like a garbage can calling a recycling bin trash ...
Really, just because someone doesn't favour the looks you call it trashin it? Where have you been the last few months where almost every Type S thread got derailed into a trashing contest. You should have seen some posts here when I mentioned that I just took delivery of my Type S.
Really, just because someone doesn't favour the looks you call it trashin it? Where have you been the last few months where almost every Type S thread got derailed into a trashing contest. You should have seen some posts here when I mentioned that I just took delivery of my Type S.
Agree. Think its a good looking car. I will spar over its performance claims but not its looks.
Agreed with both perspectives. My last two cars (black 16 TLX 3.5 then a black 19 TLX 3.5, both base models) were as anonymous as one could get; even the base 18+ Accord has more flash. This time around I went A-Spec in Performance Red!! A number people have since approached me to mention how beautiful my A-Spec looks.
Needless to say, I sort of enjoy the attention....just hope it doesnt draw the wrong attention. (Lord knows this can go both ways.)
I had compliments on my blue A-Spec. Very sharp car when clean. As I said more flashy than I wanted and always worried about parking it as it stood out some much and there is that element of people that will occasionally do something not so nice to a flashy car. I always park way out regardless but it was definitely a color that gets some attention. I had a red bmw years back and got a ton of compliments on that back when they were not everywhere. The vehicle I had the most compliments on and almost all from females was my tacoma trd. extended cab with the off road package. That was years back but for whatever reason most all of the compliments were from women. The other cars mainly males. The flash imo is better suited for the younger crowd which I would be happy to be back in.
Really, just because someone doesn't favour the looks you call it trashin it? Where have you been the last few months where almost every Type S thread got derailed into a trashing contest. You should have seen some posts here when I mentioned that I just took delivery of my Type S.
Your type S in black is sharp. No doubt about that.
MSRP is almost 54K. So you figure it out when 60K is right around the corner.
even at mark up the tlx type s looks way better than that plain Jane bmw. They almost haven't had a true real redesign in over 10 years. All their models look almost identical. Your paying for the name. Sure u can get a nice looking one but u gonna pony up for it and it aint goin to be 60-70k its going to be MOAR.
Your type S in black is sharp. No doubt about that.
I had a black Aspec moving next to me for a few blocks last week. I was surprised at how could it looked though it was a bit dirty and had the standard wheels. I’ve owned one black car and swore to the heavens that I’d not buy another, yet in looking at that Aspec the thought of a black/red Type S was briefly very appealing.
I guess the TLX is Acura's version of the Celica with the TRD Action Package. I remember they even had a whole marketing campaign with the tagline "Looks Fast."
I have owned 2 Celicas so I get to post now. My buddy had one too and the boss's son had the V6 Supra. I think someone needs to bring-back popup-headlights .
I had a black Aspec moving next to me for a few blocks last week. I was surprised at how could it looked though it was a bit dirty and had the standard wheels. I’ve owned one black car and swore to the heavens that I’d not buy another, yet in looking at that Aspec the thought of a black/red Type S was briefly very appealing.
I like the darker colors in cars in most cases. Red is my choice for 2 seaters & trucks but it has to be a true red. SUV's tend to go to silver & black, For passenger cars I like Grays & Black. Current two are Z4 Black (Sapphire Black) which has blue flakes in it & M4 very Dark Gray (Dravit Gray) which is a tri-coat over a gold flake base. Both a very lively in the sunlight with the metallic base coats. The current SUV is just plain gallons & gallons of Black. Would have liked to get the Z4 in a red similar to the granddaughters Mazda SUV or the red on my COBRA but was a no go. The BMW red for the car looked like Campbells Tomato soup.
Not a car slave but being retired leaves time to do at least general cleaning. Have a pro do any keepers, always SUV/Truck & occasional keeper car once every two years.
I have owned 2 Celicas so I get to post now. My buddy had one too and the boss's son had the V6 Supra. I think someone needs to bring-back popup-headlights .
Why are they still using T_RD in the name?
Excuse me but this thread is dedicated to BMW's & Poop. No Turds allowed.
even at mark up the tlx type s looks way better than that plain Jane bmw. They almost haven't had a true real redesign in over 10 years. All their models look almost identical. Your paying for the name. Sure u can get a nice looking one but u gonna pony up for it and it aint goin to be 60-70k its going to be MOAR.
wrong and wrong, you’re paying for performance that’s as fast as the outgoing going M3. You can customize your BMW to look as aggressive as you want from the factory and no your price assumption couldn’t be more off.G platform is a redesign so I’m not sure what you’re talking about . Have you been in a coma? The controversy around the drastic change in looks is all people talk about. LOL at no change in design.
wrong and wrong, you’re paying for performance that’s as fast as the outgoing going M3. You can customize your BMW to look as aggressive as you want from the factory and no your price assumption couldn’t be more off.G platform is a redesign so I’m not sure what you’re talking about . Have you been in a coma? The controversy around the drastic change in looks is all people talk about. LOL at no change in design.
To be fair, I agree that the TLX looks better than the BMW, but not because the BMW looks plain jane. The new design language with these massive grills/buckteeth (thanks a lot China) makes the new BMWs hideous. In my eyes at least, it's easily the worst looking car in the segment.
even at mark up the tlx type s looks way better than that plain Jane bmw. They almost haven't had a true real redesign in over 10 years. All their models look almost identical. Your paying for the name. Sure u can get a nice looking one but u gonna pony up for it and it aint goin to be 60-70k its going to be MOAR.
You are beating a dead horse.
You can spend between say $45,000 & $145,000 on 4 door sedans give or take a few thousand. To me it seems you get the same look you don't like on the less expensive car as you get on the more expensive car that you think looks better since it costs more. Thing is a lot of people do like the look regardless of price & do buy the cars that they like & can afford from 2 series through 8 series.
To give you are range of buying power in the US they sell about the same or slightly more 5 series cars than Acura sells TLX/TLX-S cars. Then they have the whole rest of the world in countries where Acura does not compete to sell even more cars. So if it comes down to units sold as a sign that people like the design language you are seriously out numbered by people making their choice with their wallets.
I believe the M340 @ $71,000 lacks common sense. Why pick $71,000 for an M340? To check every box for every option available? You are not locked into that price to buy a M340. Acura locks you in with the "S" pricing with no choices other than tires to pick what you want & drops off items from lower models like a HUD. Don't know how happy I would be to pay more & give up items from lower lines.
As I said before I never had more than a $63,000 MSRP for the more expensive coupe.
Using the same criteria, whiteout any discounts, in choosing options as I did for the 335, 340 & 440 a new M340 would cost me at @ MSRP $61,250. So is the guys whole $71,000 really a strawman to make himself feel good? Its interesting how obsessed he is with people buying a more expensive car than he did. Don't think anyone here has not had someone buy a more expensive car than they owned. My most expensive car was a Porsche 911 Carrera 4S. Some of my neighbors have more expensive cars than the 911 was. Thing is to remember if they bought a more expensive one it also means the could have bought what you did but chose not to.
Style is in the eye of the beholder. Have no issues with people not likening the M4C design because I like it. That said why is it important that there is a big visual difference between 3 series cars at different price points. To prove you spent more money for yours?
To better justify the price difference. The even more aggressive styling (splitter, diffuser, quad exhaust, 20" wheels) is one of the reasons I prefer the Type-S over the A-Spec (which I prefer over the base/Tech/Advance)..
There's always been a major styling difference between the M3/M4 and the non-M versions which I've appreciated (well until this gen). The lower case/3-digit "m" cars have been derided as not real M cars by some BMW fans but the m340i and m550i offer legit M performance but look almost like the base sedans. I can spot an S4 or even C43 AMG pretty easily, but have to look pretty closely to tell a 330i from an m340i.
I actually have a similar criticism for the 3.3T G70. Why not use the "N" badge and more aggressive styling for Genesis?
BMW really messed up on that redesign. No matter how many time I see it, it never seems to look any better. Horrible job.
I think the design works for the M3 sedan a lot more than it does for the M4. The non-M 4-series looks the worst by far; it's graceful body lines and overall attractive shape are completely ruined by the grille. Dukec also ruined the 7 series, but thankfully spared the 5 series.
Funny enough though I actually like the huge "grille" on the i4. In fact in my opinion it might be the best overall electric sedan on the market right now and would easily be my choice if I wanted to go electric I didn't have the money for a Taycan.
+1, Kinda looks like BMW hired Chris Bangle's son to do the styling
In Bangle's defense, I dont think his style was as overtly repugnant as this one. As with the 4G TL, definitely falls within the ranks of a very competent, well built machine that's ugly AF!!
In Bangle's defense, I dont think his style was as overtly repugnant as this one. As with the 4G TL, definitely falls within the ranks of a very competent, well built machine that's ugly AF!!
Although I didn't like the E65 styling (especially compared to the gorgeous E38) , atrocious reliability and dreaded iDrive system the overall car was a game changer for BMW and brought them into the 21st century. It really contributed to the 2000's leap in infotainment systems and CAN and MOST bus network expansion (even the water cooled Bosch alternator is on a CAN bus ).
As for the TLX styling, I've yet to see a Type-S in person but it's hard to argue it's not a very well styled sports sedan with impressive overall performance and vehicle dynamics. I've looked at Advanced in a parking lot and it's well executed in styling.
I think the Rabid Beaver looks quite sinister. Maybe like an Attack Beaver
They could have saved me a lot of money if they had made that change to the 5 series for the 2021 midcycle update - I'd have never put something that ugly in my driveway.
But, to each his own. While it is widely reviled on the BMW forums it also has its fans.
Just like how Toyota partnered with Subaru for the BRZ/GR86. Toyota exec's couldn't justify spending capital for design/engineering/development/operational costs so reuse and partnering was their decision to lower the overall execution costs. Whether it's Ford/GM partnering on their 10AT, Honda using GM's BEV platform, or GE/Safran partnering on the CFM56 (arguably the best business partnership of all time, ~40% of all commercial aviation are powered CFM and they're world’s leading supplier of commercial aircraft engines). Happens frequently and taught in business schools all the time.
Another brand with significant reliability improvements in recent years is BMW. The technology glitches of a decade ago have mostly been ironed out. BMW scores highest in dependability for luxury cars for the first time in 2021. BMW has also consistently refined its mechanicals, placing it in the top 10 in the J.D. Power survey.
Consumer Reports found that new versions of the 3 Series and X5 have also posted good reliability scores, impressive considering they have been updated recently. Regardless, BMW's scores surpass full-line luxury brands apart from Lexus, meaning that BMW places significantly higher than Audi, Mercedes-Benz, and even Infiniti.
I think the Rabid Beaver looks quite sinister. Maybe like an Attack Beaver
To be fair most people who buy one are probably not going to admit that its appearence is an obvious down side. I think that the appearence of the BMW is a greater deterrent to purchasing one of them then the type s’ comparative lack of straight line performance is to purchasing it. You look at the car multiple times a day, but dont spend every day running the 1/4 mile. But then again… someone who buys a Type S is not going to readily admit that its 0-60 is an obvious downside either… works both ways, whichever works for the buyer.
you had to know by the title of this thread it was going to be a busy one given the seemingly 50/50 split on acura/BMW fans that post on here.
Another brand with significant reliability improvements in recent years is BMW. The technology glitches of a decade ago have mostly been ironed out. BMW scores highest in dependability for luxury cars for the first time in 2021. BMW has also consistently refined its mechanicals, placing it in the top 10 in the J.D. Power survey.
Consumer Reports found that new versions of the 3 Series and X5 have also posted good reliability scores, impressive considering they have been updated recently. Regardless, BMW's scores surpass full-line luxury brands apart from Lexus, meaning that BMW places significantly higher than Audi, Mercedes-Benz, and even Infiniti.
LOL Consumer reports. Infiniti/Nissan Higher than Honda? Yeah Ok. Nissan is trash and their maintenance costs are on par with the Germans. Consumer reports should stick to appliances.
Another brand with significant reliability improvements in recent years is BMW. The technology glitches of a decade ago have mostly been ironed out. BMW scores highest in dependability for luxury cars for the first time in 2021. BMW has also consistently refined its mechanicals, placing it in the top 10 in the J.D. Power survey.
Consumer Reports found that new versions of the 3 Series and X5 have also posted good reliability scores, impressive considering they have been updated recently. Regardless, BMW's scores surpass full-line luxury brands apart from Lexus, meaning that BMW places significantly higher than Audi, Mercedes-Benz, and even Infiniti.
i find that consumer reports does an accurate job of analyzing the assembly quality of everything they review. Everything is too short term. This isnt to say the BMW’s havent become much more reliable (it would be hard for them not to) then they were 15 years ago. For the people that have already made up their mind about what is reliable vs unreliable it takes a lot longer then a few good years to admit this change has happened. I had no issues with Hondas for a long time, tried a german car and got just wrecked with an awful reliability experience like i had never dealt with before. Experiences like that linger for a long time. I came back to infiniti and now Acura and have not regretted it and am honestly scared to give my money to a German brand again. if in 15 years the cars continue to be reliable then maybe i will consider again, but its not a gamble im willing to take currently. The same type of situation goes on with the Korean manufactures still. they made poor quality cars for a long time, and now that they are making vehicles that are as good or better then a lot of competition there are still a lot of people that consider them to be a lesser vehicle based just on past experiences.
Yeah, I thought the same. Perhaps they've gotten better in the last decade?
I had A red sport, we all had to replace the serpentine belt because it was too small and were getting sucked into the engine causing catastrophic damage. Many engines blown due to faulty turbo's and belts. Nissan is garbage to me and I've had nothing but problems with every Infiniti I've owned and have cut them off.
I had A red sport, we all had to replace the serpentine belt because it was too small and were getting sucked into the engine causing catastrophic damage. Many engines blown due to faulty turbo's and belts. Nissan is garbage to me and I've had nothing but problems with every Infiniti I've owned and have cut them off.
That's awful. My son (big Nissan fan) had a 3.7S a few years ago and wound up unloaded it about a year afterwards when the 7AT started to act funny. (I recall driving it and thinking it's a shame this tranny's awfulness flies under the radar yet the ZF9 gets all the grief.)
Originally Posted by Legend2TL
Yeah, I thought the same. Perhaps they've gotten better in the last decade?
That Jatco CVT alone is enough to compromise Nissan quality in a major way. The Pathfinder/QX60 transitioning to the ZF9 is a big leap in the right direction, ZF9 detractors on Azine notwithstanding.
12-29-2021, 03:45 PM
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