9AT Hard Shift 1-2 and 2-3
Racer
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 367
Likes: 29
From: Earth
"Hate my car" is very relative.
A reviewer who works for a company/publication that potentially has monetary gains by leaving a slightly better review is NOT an impartial party. And sure, if they drove it for a few weeks and knew they would be giving it back, a harsh shift here and there isnt a big deal.
Now, had they spent $40K+ of their own money to own it, I bet their story might be different. I know mine would. Based on the loaner that I had for 3 days there is no way I would have been happy after buying one.
Just keep looking back at every other application of the ZF 9AT. They are all having issues, from shift quality to actual defects. It seems like HondAcuras implementation is actually the *least* flawed out of most of them, but its clearly still not perfected. The fact that some people feel it and some people dont means there is something inherently wrong somewhere....same software, same car, they should all work roughly the same or they should all NOT work roughly the same (yeah yeah, adaptive, I still think thats the perfect cop out for dealers/manufacturers to use when someone says its not shifting correctly). With 9 speeds to deal with, I really doubt there will ever be a happy medium....fix the 2-3 shift, "break" the 1-2 or 3-4. Fix the 3-4, "break" the 2-3.
The damn thing is just way too complicated, and for what? CAFE? I realize it gets good mpg on the highway but what is your city mpg going to look like when the car is struggling to accelerate because its in 6th gear at 35mph?
And I ask again: how do other auto makers make due with CAFE regulations and vehicles that have far less than 9 speeds? Hell our
A reviewer who works for a company/publication that potentially has monetary gains by leaving a slightly better review is NOT an impartial party. And sure, if they drove it for a few weeks and knew they would be giving it back, a harsh shift here and there isnt a big deal.
Now, had they spent $40K+ of their own money to own it, I bet their story might be different. I know mine would. Based on the loaner that I had for 3 days there is no way I would have been happy after buying one.
Just keep looking back at every other application of the ZF 9AT. They are all having issues, from shift quality to actual defects. It seems like HondAcuras implementation is actually the *least* flawed out of most of them, but its clearly still not perfected. The fact that some people feel it and some people dont means there is something inherently wrong somewhere....same software, same car, they should all work roughly the same or they should all NOT work roughly the same (yeah yeah, adaptive, I still think thats the perfect cop out for dealers/manufacturers to use when someone says its not shifting correctly). With 9 speeds to deal with, I really doubt there will ever be a happy medium....fix the 2-3 shift, "break" the 1-2 or 3-4. Fix the 3-4, "break" the 2-3.
The damn thing is just way too complicated, and for what? CAFE? I realize it gets good mpg on the highway but what is your city mpg going to look like when the car is struggling to accelerate because its in 6th gear at 35mph?
And I ask again: how do other auto makers make due with CAFE regulations and vehicles that have far less than 9 speeds? Hell our
Last edited by chris03tl; Sep 24, 2015 at 07:22 AM.
Racer
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 367
Likes: 29
From: Earth
Continued from above since my reply got cut off for some reason:
Hell our 1K mile old ES350 is getting 22mpg in the city using a "lowly" 6 speed automatic. If Toyota can do it, why cant Honda?
From a technical standpoint there's nothing wrong with this design and it allows ZF to cram a lot of ratios in a very small transverse application.
"Cram", "a lot of", "very small": you dont see any technical issues with those 3 words used in the description of a very complicated electromechanical piece of drivetrain?
Hell our 1K mile old ES350 is getting 22mpg in the city using a "lowly" 6 speed automatic. If Toyota can do it, why cant Honda?
From a technical standpoint there's nothing wrong with this design and it allows ZF to cram a lot of ratios in a very small transverse application.
"Cram", "a lot of", "very small": you dont see any technical issues with those 3 words used in the description of a very complicated electromechanical piece of drivetrain?
Instructor
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 166
Likes: 52
Also, see this response to that article:
"The TLX is using the 9-speed ZF 9HP48 transaxle that is a member of the 9HP family currently used in FCA, Honda and Land Rover applications. It's an extremely compact design and uses a lot of friction braking, friction clutches and dog clutches to control routing of torque through the four planetary gearsets.
http://www.zf.com/media/media/en/doc...ochure_9hp.pdf
When saying that the 2-3 shift isn't smooth, are you checking to see if that's the actual 2nd to 3rd gear or just the 2nd and 3rd shift from a normal stop? If you're driving easy and Honda/ZF have it programmed to start in a higher gear you'll experience a slight delay in shift as the transmission controller brakes and times the engagement of the dog clutch that engages between or passing through the 4-5 gears (also between 7-8), at which time there's also heavier torque management to keep input torque down.
For the other gear changes it uses the normal clutch-to-clutch shifts of the planetary gearsets which happen almost instantly, but due to having to switch between the planetary gearset (there are four, two main that each have another nested planetary gearset inside them) and use of dog clutches (which are essentially on-off only by design and can't be slipped like a friction clutch) it takes more time to engage.
From a technical standpoint there's nothing wrong with this design and it allows ZF to cram a lot of ratios in a very small transverse application. They could probably get just as wide an overall ratio spread with less gears but the extra gear count allows the automaker to use the design and tailor shifts and gears ratios to better match up with engine torque characteristics for better economy.
Down side is that the transmission behaves "different" than what people are expecting and not every gear change will feel the same. Chrysler has had a lot of teething issues and I'm guessing the updates to the transmission calibrations have been a combination of improvements ZF is making to the timing of the dog clutch engagement along with the automaker trying to mask this somewhat by altering torque management (output) of the engine calibration during shifts and better predictive timing of shifts under changing vehicle loads.
It is logical to an engineer and the operation would make perfect sense but try explaining it to an average consumer that only knows something is different or doesn't feel right on some shifts compared to others. If ZF and the automakers can't get the complex powertrain controller calibrations refined enough to mask the operating characteristics I expect this family of transaxles will be short lived."
"The TLX is using the 9-speed ZF 9HP48 transaxle that is a member of the 9HP family currently used in FCA, Honda and Land Rover applications. It's an extremely compact design and uses a lot of friction braking, friction clutches and dog clutches to control routing of torque through the four planetary gearsets.
http://www.zf.com/media/media/en/doc...ochure_9hp.pdf
When saying that the 2-3 shift isn't smooth, are you checking to see if that's the actual 2nd to 3rd gear or just the 2nd and 3rd shift from a normal stop? If you're driving easy and Honda/ZF have it programmed to start in a higher gear you'll experience a slight delay in shift as the transmission controller brakes and times the engagement of the dog clutch that engages between or passing through the 4-5 gears (also between 7-8), at which time there's also heavier torque management to keep input torque down.
For the other gear changes it uses the normal clutch-to-clutch shifts of the planetary gearsets which happen almost instantly, but due to having to switch between the planetary gearset (there are four, two main that each have another nested planetary gearset inside them) and use of dog clutches (which are essentially on-off only by design and can't be slipped like a friction clutch) it takes more time to engage.
From a technical standpoint there's nothing wrong with this design and it allows ZF to cram a lot of ratios in a very small transverse application. They could probably get just as wide an overall ratio spread with less gears but the extra gear count allows the automaker to use the design and tailor shifts and gears ratios to better match up with engine torque characteristics for better economy.
Down side is that the transmission behaves "different" than what people are expecting and not every gear change will feel the same. Chrysler has had a lot of teething issues and I'm guessing the updates to the transmission calibrations have been a combination of improvements ZF is making to the timing of the dog clutch engagement along with the automaker trying to mask this somewhat by altering torque management (output) of the engine calibration during shifts and better predictive timing of shifts under changing vehicle loads.
It is logical to an engineer and the operation would make perfect sense but try explaining it to an average consumer that only knows something is different or doesn't feel right on some shifts compared to others. If ZF and the automakers can't get the complex powertrain controller calibrations refined enough to mask the operating characteristics I expect this family of transaxles will be short lived."
And yes, I do anticipate the hard shifts. My car has trained me to stiffen up to expect them.
BTW, there are days when my shifts are amazing and perfect. Somebody said it earlier: the flaw may not even be in the shifting. It could be in the learning process, and it could be going haywire. But it is and does affect the shift quality.
If I were to take this to another dealer and try to trade it, the second they test drove it, there would be questions. I have had many friends drive my car. They were not biased one way or another. They asked about the jerky transmission. My resale value is not going to be average for this car. And now I suffer with this pain just about every day.
2015 TLX SH-AWD Elite BWP
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 432
Likes: 69
From: Montreal
Also, see this response to that article:
"The TLX is using the 9-speed ZF 9HP48 transaxle that is a member of the 9HP family currently used in FCA, Honda and Land Rover applications. It's an extremely compact design and uses a lot of friction braking, friction clutches and dog clutches to control routing of torque through the four planetary gearsets.
http://www.zf.com/media/media/en/doc...ochure_9hp.pdf
When saying that the 2-3 shift isn't smooth, are you checking to see if that's the actual 2nd to 3rd gear or just the 2nd and 3rd shift from a normal stop? If you're driving easy and Honda/ZF have it programmed to start in a higher gear you'll experience a slight delay in shift as the transmission controller brakes and times the engagement of the dog clutch that engages between or passing through the 4-5 gears (also between 7-8), at which time there's also heavier torque management to keep input torque down.
For the other gear changes it uses the normal clutch-to-clutch shifts of the planetary gearsets which happen almost instantly, but due to having to switch between the planetary gearset (there are four, two main that each have another nested planetary gearset inside them) and use of dog clutches (which are essentially on-off only by design and can't be slipped like a friction clutch) it takes more time to engage.
From a technical standpoint there's nothing wrong with this design and it allows ZF to cram a lot of ratios in a very small transverse application. They could probably get just as wide an overall ratio spread with less gears but the extra gear count allows the automaker to use the design and tailor shifts and gears ratios to better match up with engine torque characteristics for better economy.
Down side is that the transmission behaves "different" than what people are expecting and not every gear change will feel the same. Chrysler has had a lot of teething issues and I'm guessing the updates to the transmission calibrations have been a combination of improvements ZF is making to the timing of the dog clutch engagement along with the automaker trying to mask this somewhat by altering torque management (output) of the engine calibration during shifts and better predictive timing of shifts under changing vehicle loads.
It is logical to an engineer and the operation would make perfect sense but try explaining it to an average consumer that only knows something is different or doesn't feel right on some shifts compared to others. If ZF and the automakers can't get the complex powertrain controller calibrations refined enough to mask the operating characteristics I expect this family of transaxles will be short lived."
"The TLX is using the 9-speed ZF 9HP48 transaxle that is a member of the 9HP family currently used in FCA, Honda and Land Rover applications. It's an extremely compact design and uses a lot of friction braking, friction clutches and dog clutches to control routing of torque through the four planetary gearsets.
http://www.zf.com/media/media/en/doc...ochure_9hp.pdf
When saying that the 2-3 shift isn't smooth, are you checking to see if that's the actual 2nd to 3rd gear or just the 2nd and 3rd shift from a normal stop? If you're driving easy and Honda/ZF have it programmed to start in a higher gear you'll experience a slight delay in shift as the transmission controller brakes and times the engagement of the dog clutch that engages between or passing through the 4-5 gears (also between 7-8), at which time there's also heavier torque management to keep input torque down.
For the other gear changes it uses the normal clutch-to-clutch shifts of the planetary gearsets which happen almost instantly, but due to having to switch between the planetary gearset (there are four, two main that each have another nested planetary gearset inside them) and use of dog clutches (which are essentially on-off only by design and can't be slipped like a friction clutch) it takes more time to engage.
From a technical standpoint there's nothing wrong with this design and it allows ZF to cram a lot of ratios in a very small transverse application. They could probably get just as wide an overall ratio spread with less gears but the extra gear count allows the automaker to use the design and tailor shifts and gears ratios to better match up with engine torque characteristics for better economy.
Down side is that the transmission behaves "different" than what people are expecting and not every gear change will feel the same. Chrysler has had a lot of teething issues and I'm guessing the updates to the transmission calibrations have been a combination of improvements ZF is making to the timing of the dog clutch engagement along with the automaker trying to mask this somewhat by altering torque management (output) of the engine calibration during shifts and better predictive timing of shifts under changing vehicle loads.
It is logical to an engineer and the operation would make perfect sense but try explaining it to an average consumer that only knows something is different or doesn't feel right on some shifts compared to others. If ZF and the automakers can't get the complex powertrain controller calibrations refined enough to mask the operating characteristics I expect this family of transaxles will be short lived."
Nice speech , but like most of the guys here I'm saying out loud that Acura HAS a problem with 9 speed. I had/have issues and you can give all the explanations that you want , but the facts and feeling of my daily driving tells me the contrary. I loved how my 2009 TL drove and I kept that car for 5 1/2 years (longest possession within 10 cars that I owned). Now because of the 9 speed transmission on my TLX , after only 6 months I'm thinking to change (and not with an Acura!) and all that is the fault of that transmission.
Every day commuting is like somebody is bumping me from behind 50 times one way and 50 times the other way. For a car that I paid 50K (CAD) is not acceptable and it clearly looks that they rush it out on the market.
My 2c.
Last edited by Momyc; Sep 24, 2015 at 07:33 AM.
Advanced
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 97
Likes: 6
"Hate my car" is very relative.
A reviewer who works for a company/publication that potentially has monetary gains by leaving a slightly better review is NOT an impartial party. And sure, if they drove it for a few weeks and knew they would be giving it back, a harsh shift here and there isnt a big deal.
Now, had they spent $40K+ of their own money to own it, I bet their story might be different. I know mine would. Based on the loaner that I had for 3 days there is no way I would have been happy after buying one.
Just keep looking back at every other application of the ZF 9AT. They are all having issues, from shift quality to actual defects. It seems like HondAcuras implementation is actually the *least* flawed out of most of them, but its clearly still not perfected. The fact that some people feel it and some people dont means there is something inherently wrong somewhere....same software, same car, they should all work roughly the same or they should all NOT work roughly the same (yeah yeah, adaptive, I still think thats the perfect cop out for dealers/manufacturers to use when someone says its not shifting correctly). With 9 speeds to deal with, I really doubt there will ever be a happy medium....fix the 2-3 shift, "break" the 1-2 or 3-4. Fix the 3-4, "break" the 2-3.
The damn thing is just way too complicated, and for what? CAFE? I realize it gets good mpg on the highway but what is your city mpg going to look like when the car is struggling to accelerate because its in 6th gear at 35mph?
And I ask again: how do other auto makers make due with CAFE regulations and vehicles that have far less than 9 speeds? Hell our
A reviewer who works for a company/publication that potentially has monetary gains by leaving a slightly better review is NOT an impartial party. And sure, if they drove it for a few weeks and knew they would be giving it back, a harsh shift here and there isnt a big deal.
Now, had they spent $40K+ of their own money to own it, I bet their story might be different. I know mine would. Based on the loaner that I had for 3 days there is no way I would have been happy after buying one.
Just keep looking back at every other application of the ZF 9AT. They are all having issues, from shift quality to actual defects. It seems like HondAcuras implementation is actually the *least* flawed out of most of them, but its clearly still not perfected. The fact that some people feel it and some people dont means there is something inherently wrong somewhere....same software, same car, they should all work roughly the same or they should all NOT work roughly the same (yeah yeah, adaptive, I still think thats the perfect cop out for dealers/manufacturers to use when someone says its not shifting correctly). With 9 speeds to deal with, I really doubt there will ever be a happy medium....fix the 2-3 shift, "break" the 1-2 or 3-4. Fix the 3-4, "break" the 2-3.
The damn thing is just way too complicated, and for what? CAFE? I realize it gets good mpg on the highway but what is your city mpg going to look like when the car is struggling to accelerate because its in 6th gear at 35mph?
And I ask again: how do other auto makers make due with CAFE regulations and vehicles that have far less than 9 speeds? Hell our
The advantages are not just in gas mileage. Please watch the videos that have been posted or other explanations that go into detail as to the many advantages of the transmission. It is a selling point for the car, at least for buyers who are open to new technology.
Everything is overblown. A person feels the gas pedal doesn't respond as quickly as he likes, and he posts saying he's going to get pushed off the road by a semi/killed/is filing a class action/etc. Potential buyers take these comments seriously, and it's misleading when they are so overblown.
Advanced
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 97
Likes: 6
there is definitely a theme in here also that a "40k car shouldn't _____." The reality is that at any price, including 40k, it's not going to be perfect. It's not going to satisfy your every wish. It's not going to behave exactly as you have dreamed/expected. I'm not sure how much everyone would complain if this were a 20k car.
A lot of people expect a car to be perfect in every way because it's 40k. There are 80k cars with all sorts of issues. In many cases, from an engineering standpoint, you can't have the "perfection" a driver might want.
If I were going in to buy a 40k car with these expectations, I would be extremely worried. I'd probably just get a 5k used car instead. The more money you spend, the more opportunity to say "and on a 40k car! how could this happen!" Trust me, it's not a great road to go down.
A lot of people expect a car to be perfect in every way because it's 40k. There are 80k cars with all sorts of issues. In many cases, from an engineering standpoint, you can't have the "perfection" a driver might want.
If I were going in to buy a 40k car with these expectations, I would be extremely worried. I'd probably just get a 5k used car instead. The more money you spend, the more opportunity to say "and on a 40k car! how could this happen!" Trust me, it's not a great road to go down.
Instructor
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 166
Likes: 52
Someone with your approach obviously shouldn't buy the car, and your approach probably matches some of whom were complaining a lot the second Honda/Acura announced there would be a 9 speed. The "slow" throttle and other things like that are all apparent in a test drive.
The advantages are not just in gas mileage. Please watch the videos that have been posted or other explanations that go into detail as to the many advantages of the transmission. It is a selling point for the car, at least for buyers who are open to new technology.
Everything is overblown. A person feels the gas pedal doesn't respond as quickly as he likes, and he posts saying he's going to get pushed off the road by a semi/killed/is filing a class action/etc. Potential buyers take these comments seriously, and it's misleading when they are so overblown.
The advantages are not just in gas mileage. Please watch the videos that have been posted or other explanations that go into detail as to the many advantages of the transmission. It is a selling point for the car, at least for buyers who are open to new technology.
Everything is overblown. A person feels the gas pedal doesn't respond as quickly as he likes, and he posts saying he's going to get pushed off the road by a semi/killed/is filing a class action/etc. Potential buyers take these comments seriously, and it's misleading when they are so overblown.
Just go buy your car and let us deal with our transmissions. If you buy one that starts to shift like crap, come on back and we will discuss how to approach this.
We complain about this because we spent ~$40,000 on a car that now makes us mad. Like Momyc, I am looking to trade mine in, and lose a lot of money on it.
Now ask yourself, why would I have purchased a car, that when I test drove it, shifted like crap.. knowing that I wouldn't be able to handle it, just to trade it in and lose $5000? Do you think that is the way I wanted this to pan out? Don't you think that if we could be happy with our cars we could?
By giving us these lectures, do you think you will turn us around, and all of a sudden we will love our transmissions?? Get with it.
Racer
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 367
Likes: 29
From: Earth
Someone with your approach obviously shouldn't buy the car, and your approach probably matches some of whom were complaining a lot the second Honda/Acura announced there would be a 9 speed. The "slow" throttle and other things like that are all apparent in a test drive.
The advantages are not just in gas mileage. Please watch the videos that have been posted or other explanations that go into detail as to the many advantages of the transmission. It is a selling point for the car, at least for buyers who are open to new technology.
Everything is overblown. A person feels the gas pedal doesn't respond as quickly as he likes, and he posts saying he's going to get pushed off the road by a semi/killed/is filing a class action/etc. Potential buyers take these comments seriously, and it's misleading when they are so overblown.
The advantages are not just in gas mileage. Please watch the videos that have been posted or other explanations that go into detail as to the many advantages of the transmission. It is a selling point for the car, at least for buyers who are open to new technology.
Everything is overblown. A person feels the gas pedal doesn't respond as quickly as he likes, and he posts saying he's going to get pushed off the road by a semi/killed/is filing a class action/etc. Potential buyers take these comments seriously, and it's misleading when they are so overblown.
The longest test drive I had was the one that performed the worst, but it wasnt a length of time thing: I noticed the laggy shifting on the way back from the dealer. The first TLX I test drove shifted exactly as I would expect it too, which is what lead me to borrow one for a few days. Could the worst one have been fixed? Maybe, but the fact that one worked great and one worked terrible is worrisome enough.
And yeah, $40K and it wont be perfect....but the complaints arent about "my phone doesnt connect fast enough" or "there arent enough cupholders". For $40K, the drivetrain should "just work". No it doesnt need to be perfect, but these are major issues to some (most?) and the fact that multiple people are complaining about it, Acura has released multiple "fixes", etc show that it is a real issue.
Couple that with HondAcuras track record of less than stellar transmissions and you have a legitimate issue for people to want resolved. For all we know they can develop their own transmission, drop the ZF and leave all the TLX w/ZF owners in the dust. Fix on a "case by case basis" is what they will call it, just like they did with the 2000-2003 Accords/TLs
Advanced
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 97
Likes: 6
It is not overblown. I wish I would have found this forum first. When I test drove "a" 9 speed TLX (as I was told there was no need to drive the one I purchased, because they all "drove exactly the same"(funny now in hindsight), there were absolutely no shift problems with that transmission. My car started showing signs of bad shifting after a week.
Just go buy your car and let us deal with our transmissions. If you buy one that starts to shift like crap, come on back and we will discuss how to approach this.
We complain about this because we spent ~$40,000 on a car that now makes us mad. Like Momyc, I am looking to trade mine in, and lose a lot of money on it.
Now ask yourself, why would I have purchased a car, that when I test drove it, shifted like crap.. knowing that I wouldn't be able to handle it, just to trade it in and lose $5000? Do you think that is the way I wanted this to pan out? Don't you think that if we could be happy with our cars we could?
By giving us these lectures, do you think you will turn us around, and all of a sudden we will love our transmissions?? Get with it.
Just go buy your car and let us deal with our transmissions. If you buy one that starts to shift like crap, come on back and we will discuss how to approach this.
We complain about this because we spent ~$40,000 on a car that now makes us mad. Like Momyc, I am looking to trade mine in, and lose a lot of money on it.
Now ask yourself, why would I have purchased a car, that when I test drove it, shifted like crap.. knowing that I wouldn't be able to handle it, just to trade it in and lose $5000? Do you think that is the way I wanted this to pan out? Don't you think that if we could be happy with our cars we could?
By giving us these lectures, do you think you will turn us around, and all of a sudden we will love our transmissions?? Get with it.
Way too many complaints are getting grouped together generally, here.
Advanced
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 97
Likes: 6
As I posted previously (last week) I test drove 3 vehicles with the 9AT and they all acted differently.
The longest test drive I had was the one that performed the worst, but it wasnt a length of time thing: I noticed the laggy shifting on the way back from the dealer. The first TLX I test drove shifted exactly as I would expect it too, which is what lead me to borrow one for a few days. Could the worst one have been fixed? Maybe, but the fact that one worked great and one worked terrible is worrisome enough.
And yeah, $40K and it wont be perfect....but the complaints arent about "my phone doesnt connect fast enough" or "there arent enough cupholders". For $40K, the drivetrain should "just work". No it doesnt need to be perfect, but these are major issues to some (most?) and the fact that multiple people are complaining about it, Acura has released multiple "fixes", etc show that it is a real issue.
Couple that with HondAcuras track record of less than stellar transmissions and you have a legitimate issue for people to want resolved. For all we know they can develop their own transmission, drop the ZF and leave all the TLX w/ZF owners in the dust. Fix on a "case by case basis" is what they will call it, just like they did with the 2000-2003 Accords/TLs
The longest test drive I had was the one that performed the worst, but it wasnt a length of time thing: I noticed the laggy shifting on the way back from the dealer. The first TLX I test drove shifted exactly as I would expect it too, which is what lead me to borrow one for a few days. Could the worst one have been fixed? Maybe, but the fact that one worked great and one worked terrible is worrisome enough.
And yeah, $40K and it wont be perfect....but the complaints arent about "my phone doesnt connect fast enough" or "there arent enough cupholders". For $40K, the drivetrain should "just work". No it doesnt need to be perfect, but these are major issues to some (most?) and the fact that multiple people are complaining about it, Acura has released multiple "fixes", etc show that it is a real issue.
Couple that with HondAcuras track record of less than stellar transmissions and you have a legitimate issue for people to want resolved. For all we know they can develop their own transmission, drop the ZF and leave all the TLX w/ZF owners in the dust. Fix on a "case by case basis" is what they will call it, just like they did with the 2000-2003 Accords/TLs
Acura is committed to this transmission in the TLX and other vehicles. The 2016 TLX has no change. The TSB text indicates exactly the nature of the problems, and it means Honda/Acura is doing what they can to help out all drivers--it is not them saying the transmission is defective or anything to that effect.
Suzuka Master
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,564
Likes: 1,093
From: Sugar Land, TX
Old Man Yelling at Clouds
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,973
Likes: 7,362
From: Seattle, WA
Yeah, I really appreciated reading that article. The problem for the people in this thread is at the bottom, after recognizing and experiencing the issue, and even saying that it was a consistent issue, the author said:
"Neither issue is pressing. But if this were my TLX, I'd probably mention this abrupt upshift to my dealer on the next service just to see what came of it."
That pretty much destroys everything that's been said here. The people here say the transmission is a "POS," want to return the car, etc., etc.
If a professional reviewer, someone who obviously is an expert in all sorts of cars, basically recognizes the issue completely but then goes ahead and says "neither issue is pressing," that's a big problem for those who argue the car/transmission/etc. are defective and are launching class actions.
"Neither issue is pressing. But if this were my TLX, I'd probably mention this abrupt upshift to my dealer on the next service just to see what came of it."
That pretty much destroys everything that's been said here. The people here say the transmission is a "POS," want to return the car, etc., etc.
If a professional reviewer, someone who obviously is an expert in all sorts of cars, basically recognizes the issue completely but then goes ahead and says "neither issue is pressing," that's a big problem for those who argue the car/transmission/etc. are defective and are launching class actions.
The article supports the point I've been making. This isn't a defect. The car uses complex software for a number of things, and perhaps, as the TSB noted, the software is not perfectly calibrated in the sense that in some driving situations, some drivers (because it learns your style) will experience harder THAN EXPECTED upshifts. It may be that with the nature of the car, transmission, and the software, there is no ideal setting such that the performance matches up perfectly with every driver's expectations.
I really don't understand why you are trying so hard to defend this transmission. Pretty sure you work for the company at this point.
Old Man Yelling at Clouds
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,973
Likes: 7,362
From: Seattle, WA
there is definitely a theme in here also that a "40k car shouldn't _____." The reality is that at any price, including 40k, it's not going to be perfect. It's not going to satisfy your every wish. It's not going to behave exactly as you have dreamed/expected. I'm not sure how much everyone would complain if this were a 20k car.
A lot of people expect a car to be perfect in every way because it's 40k. There are 80k cars with all sorts of issues. In many cases, from an engineering standpoint, you can't have the "perfection" a driver might want.
If I were going in to buy a 40k car with these expectations, I would be extremely worried. I'd probably just get a 5k used car instead. The more money you spend, the more opportunity to say "and on a 40k car! how could this happen!" Trust me, it's not a great road to go down.
A lot of people expect a car to be perfect in every way because it's 40k. There are 80k cars with all sorts of issues. In many cases, from an engineering standpoint, you can't have the "perfection" a driver might want.
If I were going in to buy a 40k car with these expectations, I would be extremely worried. I'd probably just get a 5k used car instead. The more money you spend, the more opportunity to say "and on a 40k car! how could this happen!" Trust me, it's not a great road to go down.
So let's get one thing straight. I've been put in dangerous situations at least 3 times due to the massive delay in downshift on the highway. My transmission has failed and left me stranded. The 2-3 shift bumps and delays strong enough to bounce my head against the headrest.
Your opinions about a car you do not own do not carry weight here. You are basically saying, "well what I've read about this car contradicts what you all are experiencing every day driving it, so you all must be wrong". Really?
The TLX is an amazing car that has a POS transmission. I've no idea why you feel obligated to defend it.
Last edited by 1Louder; Sep 24, 2015 at 09:01 AM.
Suzuka Master
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,564
Likes: 1,093
From: Sugar Land, TX
The reason you see this comment, at least from me, is that $20K cars these days have silky-smooth shifts. I recently drove my parents two year old Honda Odyssey minivan and you couldn't feel a single shift. So yeah, I would expect that a transmission in a $40K car would at least shift as well as a car half the price.
So let's get one thing straight. I've been put in dangerous situations at least 3 times due to the massive delay in downshift on the highway. My transmission has failed and left me stranded. The 2-3 shift bumps and delays strong enough to bounce my head against the headrest.
Your opinions about a car you do not own do not carry weight here. You are basically saying, "well what I've read about this car contradicts what you all are experiencing every day driving it, so you all must be wrong". Really?
The TLX is an amazing car that has a POS transmission. I've no idea why you feel obligated to defend it.
So let's get one thing straight. I've been put in dangerous situations at least 3 times due to the massive delay in downshift on the highway. My transmission has failed and left me stranded. The 2-3 shift bumps and delays strong enough to bounce my head against the headrest.
Your opinions about a car you do not own do not carry weight here. You are basically saying, "well what I've read about this car contradicts what you all are experiencing every day driving it, so you all must be wrong". Really?
The TLX is an amazing car that has a POS transmission. I've no idea why you feel obligated to defend it.
As you, I and others have said many times, we are happy for those that have flawless shifting and have never experienced this issue. I had no issues with mine for a time either and wondered what the guys that were experiencing was talking about.. I have been plagued ever since my first "fix"
Moderator
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,993
Likes: 1,405
From: Ohio
there is definitely a theme in here also that a "40k car shouldn't _____." The reality is that at any price, including 40k, it's not going to be perfect. It's not going to satisfy your every wish. It's not going to behave exactly as you have dreamed/expected. I'm not sure how much everyone would complain if this were a 20k car.
A lot of people expect a car to be perfect in every way because it's 40k. There are 80k cars with all sorts of issues. In many cases, from an engineering standpoint, you can't have the "perfection" a driver might want.
If I were going in to buy a 40k car with these expectations, I would be extremely worried. I'd probably just get a 5k used car instead. The more money you spend, the more opportunity to say "and on a 40k car! how could this happen!" Trust me, it's not a great road to go down.
A lot of people expect a car to be perfect in every way because it's 40k. There are 80k cars with all sorts of issues. In many cases, from an engineering standpoint, you can't have the "perfection" a driver might want.
If I were going in to buy a 40k car with these expectations, I would be extremely worried. I'd probably just get a 5k used car instead. The more money you spend, the more opportunity to say "and on a 40k car! how could this happen!" Trust me, it's not a great road to go down.
In fact one could go so far as to say the fact that the car costs 40K and has abrupt shifts *is* the problem.
10th Gear
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Just had to post here, thankful I found this thread:
Just took delivery of a 15 TLX AWD Tech, and the shifts from 1-2 and 2-3 and *BRUTAL*.
It feels like the the brakes slam on, then it jerks into the next gear.
I'm contacting the dealer to see if the TSBs were applied, but based on what I'm reading here, I'm not optimistic even that will fix it.
FTR, I had driven a few others of the same model and didn't notice anything like this, then I didn't drive this one before going off the lot, so there's a bit of mea culpa to be sure.
I just thought I wasn't used to the throttle response when I initially drove away.
Just took delivery of a 15 TLX AWD Tech, and the shifts from 1-2 and 2-3 and *BRUTAL*.
It feels like the the brakes slam on, then it jerks into the next gear.
I'm contacting the dealer to see if the TSBs were applied, but based on what I'm reading here, I'm not optimistic even that will fix it.
FTR, I had driven a few others of the same model and didn't notice anything like this, then I didn't drive this one before going off the lot, so there's a bit of mea culpa to be sure.
I just thought I wasn't used to the throttle response when I initially drove away.
Suzuka Master
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,564
Likes: 1,093
From: Sugar Land, TX
Just had to post here, thankful I found this thread:
Just took delivery of a 15 TLX AWD Tech, and the shifts from 1-2 and 2-3 and *BRUTAL*.
It feels like the the brakes slam on, then it jerks into the next gear.
I'm contacting the dealer to see if the TSBs were applied, but based on what I'm reading here, I'm not optimistic even that will fix it.
FTR, I had driven a few others of the same model and didn't notice anything like this, then I didn't drive this one before going off the lot, so there's a bit of mea culpa to be sure.
I just thought I wasn't used to the throttle response when I initially drove away.
Just took delivery of a 15 TLX AWD Tech, and the shifts from 1-2 and 2-3 and *BRUTAL*.
It feels like the the brakes slam on, then it jerks into the next gear.
I'm contacting the dealer to see if the TSBs were applied, but based on what I'm reading here, I'm not optimistic even that will fix it.
FTR, I had driven a few others of the same model and didn't notice anything like this, then I didn't drive this one before going off the lot, so there's a bit of mea culpa to be sure.
I just thought I wasn't used to the throttle response when I initially drove away.
Advanced
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 97
Likes: 6
Just had to post here, thankful I found this thread:
Just took delivery of a 15 TLX AWD Tech, and the shifts from 1-2 and 2-3 and *BRUTAL*.
It feels like the the brakes slam on, then it jerks into the next gear.
I'm contacting the dealer to see if the TSBs were applied, but based on what I'm reading here, I'm not optimistic even that will fix it.
FTR, I had driven a few others of the same model and didn't notice anything like this, then I didn't drive this one before going off the lot, so there's a bit of mea culpa to be sure.
I just thought I wasn't used to the throttle response when I initially drove away.
Just took delivery of a 15 TLX AWD Tech, and the shifts from 1-2 and 2-3 and *BRUTAL*.
It feels like the the brakes slam on, then it jerks into the next gear.
I'm contacting the dealer to see if the TSBs were applied, but based on what I'm reading here, I'm not optimistic even that will fix it.
FTR, I had driven a few others of the same model and didn't notice anything like this, then I didn't drive this one before going off the lot, so there's a bit of mea culpa to be sure.
I just thought I wasn't used to the throttle response when I initially drove away.
10th Gear
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
It had 4 when it left the lot (I was told), then the dealer drove it 170 miles to deliver it to me (no dealership in my city).
Does that make a difference? Is there a 'break in' period for the tranny where it will feel like it's applying the brakes then snapping into 2nd and 3rd gear?
Does that make a difference? Is there a 'break in' period for the tranny where it will feel like it's applying the brakes then snapping into 2nd and 3rd gear?
Suzuka Master
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,564
Likes: 1,093
From: Sugar Land, TX
It had 4 when it left the lot (I was told), then the dealer drove it 170 miles to deliver it to me (no dealership in my city).
Does that make a difference? Is there a 'break in' period for the tranny where it will feel like it's applying the brakes then snapping into 2nd and 3rd gear?
Does that make a difference? Is there a 'break in' period for the tranny where it will feel like it's applying the brakes then snapping into 2nd and 3rd gear?
Cruisin'
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 16
Likes: 17
iesu3423, you're obviously an intelligent person with a fair amount of knowledge of the brand, transmissions, etc. But let me add my voice to the chorus of those of us who are scratching our heads when you and others deny the existence of the problem, or characterize it as minimal, to the point of it being irrelevant, or say that the transmission is functioning just as it should. (It *may be* functioning just as it should, which if true is a serious indictment against Acura and ZF.)
I'm afraid the growing body of evidence (hundreds of comments on these and other discussion boards, NHTSA complaints, carcomplaints.com, industry articles, etc.), collectively, provide irrefutable evidence to the contrary. THE PROBLEM IS REAL AND MATERIAL. It obviously varies to some extent, but if you simply dismiss this overwhelming evidence as the complaints of a bunch of perfectionists, you're sadly mistaken. Talk to my service adviser here in Texas -- he thanks me for not howling at him like other TLX owners do about the transmission issues.
I think the shifting in my TLX was worse today than ever. The constant lunges in the lower gears are very annoying and shouldn't happen. The ridiculous delays in acceleration are inexcusable. I very much regret this purchase and am looking at my options, but at this point I hope Acura gets its act together and starts finding solutions.
I'm afraid the growing body of evidence (hundreds of comments on these and other discussion boards, NHTSA complaints, carcomplaints.com, industry articles, etc.), collectively, provide irrefutable evidence to the contrary. THE PROBLEM IS REAL AND MATERIAL. It obviously varies to some extent, but if you simply dismiss this overwhelming evidence as the complaints of a bunch of perfectionists, you're sadly mistaken. Talk to my service adviser here in Texas -- he thanks me for not howling at him like other TLX owners do about the transmission issues.
I think the shifting in my TLX was worse today than ever. The constant lunges in the lower gears are very annoying and shouldn't happen. The ridiculous delays in acceleration are inexcusable. I very much regret this purchase and am looking at my options, but at this point I hope Acura gets its act together and starts finding solutions.
Old Man Yelling at Clouds
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,973
Likes: 7,362
From: Seattle, WA
It had 4 when it left the lot (I was told), then the dealer drove it 170 miles to deliver it to me (no dealership in my city).
Does that make a difference? Is there a 'break in' period for the tranny where it will feel like it's applying the brakes then snapping into 2nd and 3rd gear?
Does that make a difference? Is there a 'break in' period for the tranny where it will feel like it's applying the brakes then snapping into 2nd and 3rd gear?
Most of us agree the TSBs do help the 1-2 shift, so if you are getting hard shifts at both that would be worth looking into. There is a TSB thread you can pull them from to bring them in if you want (which I'd recommend). 38 and 40 are the ones relevant to the issue.
https://acurazine.com/forums/fifth-g...letins-914607/
IMO, the "brake" feeling you are getting is the hesitation. Just before it shifts the car holds RPM, so you stop accelerating for a brief moment. Then it shifts, and you get a burst of acceleration again. It's that pause that creates the noticeable break in acceleration. I've found it's the strongest if the shift is between 2K and 3K RPM. Above or below that it's usually a smooth shift. So if you don't experience it sometimes, that may be why - usually under very hard or very mild acceleration. Between normal and just under brisk acceleration, the shifts are right in that range where the hesitation occurs.
Old Man Yelling at Clouds
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,973
Likes: 7,362
From: Seattle, WA
I'm in a lease, but had I bought I'd make move out of the car the moment I could not lose a ton of money over it (probably by year's end). Given the lease, I'll stop driving it before the warranty runs out and just get something else for the few months of overlap, then turn it in (39 mo lease). No way I'm taking a chance with another TCM failure out of warranty.
10th Gear
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
I can't speak to a break in period, but it's possible that as the transmission "learns" this may soften up a bit. Also not sure what mode you are using, but Econ will allow more play in the throttle (but you have to really push it to get "brisk" acceleration), normal is rather linear, but Sport is pretty sensitive and the car will accelerate more with just a little throttle input. I only mention it because Econ and Normal will offer you more chances to have smooth or gradual accelerations - it may help the "learning" process.
Most of us agree the TSBs do help the 1-2 shift, so if you are getting hard shifts at both that would be worth looking into. There is a TSB thread you can pull them from to bring them in if you want (which I'd recommend). 38 and 40 are the ones relevant to the issue.
https://acurazine.com/forums/fifth-g...letins-914607/
IMO, the "brake" feeling you are getting is the hesitation. Just before it shifts the car holds RPM, so you stop accelerating for a brief moment. Then it shifts, and you get a burst of acceleration again. It's that pause that creates the noticeable break in acceleration. I've found it's the strongest if the shift is between 2K and 3K RPM. Above or below that it's usually a smooth shift. So if you don't experience it sometimes, that may be why - usually under very hard or very mild acceleration. Between normal and just under brisk acceleration, the shifts are right in that range where the hesitation occurs.
Most of us agree the TSBs do help the 1-2 shift, so if you are getting hard shifts at both that would be worth looking into. There is a TSB thread you can pull them from to bring them in if you want (which I'd recommend). 38 and 40 are the ones relevant to the issue.
https://acurazine.com/forums/fifth-g...letins-914607/
IMO, the "brake" feeling you are getting is the hesitation. Just before it shifts the car holds RPM, so you stop accelerating for a brief moment. Then it shifts, and you get a burst of acceleration again. It's that pause that creates the noticeable break in acceleration. I've found it's the strongest if the shift is between 2K and 3K RPM. Above or below that it's usually a smooth shift. So if you don't experience it sometimes, that may be why - usually under very hard or very mild acceleration. Between normal and just under brisk acceleration, the shifts are right in that range where the hesitation occurs.
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 945
Likes: 262
check out Acura Facebook page....the complaints are starting to roll in on the 2016 unchanged transmission. Just be sure to pull down to "recent activity" to see all of the comments....not the few that Acura wants you to see
Last edited by quantum7; Sep 24, 2015 at 06:55 PM.
Racer
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 482
Likes: 56
TCU programming for a larger vehicle is undoubtedly different than for a sedan. We likely have different ratios and we also have at least one known different part. That being said, there have been some complaints (also check Piloteer) about the jerkiness, usually at low speeds. But we don't have the 2-3 stuff going on.
Suzuka Master
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,564
Likes: 1,093
From: Sugar Land, TX
What really kills me is that the I4 8DCT is so much more responsive as is the RDM and MDX compared to the TLX from a dead stop. I am in an RDX loaner today.. if only the TLX was close to this responsive....
Advanced
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 97
Likes: 6
I took everything said here and went out for more test drives with a passenger, so two opinions.
First off, all the complaints about slow acceleration should not be grouped with the hard shifting. The acceleration involves the drive by wire throttle as well as the transmission. I honestly don't think people understand that. I also think you can adjust your driving style to get the most out of the vehicle. The transmission is great 0-60.
Second, we also compared a car with a traditional transmission back to back with the tlxes. We tried all the ids modes, including sport plus.
My opinion first was that I didn't notice anything. The passenger said it was rough like a manual or sports car.
After comparing to the traditional I had to agree that the traditional was smooth and not noticeable, while the tlx had a minimum roughness/bump. I tried specifically at various rpms. Perhaps the bump is slightly more noticeable on 1-2-3. I tried extremely hard to find anything like what's been described here.
But it's a far cry from the complaints here. So either it's impossible to feel the issue on test drives or some people are very picky. As a driver, I have no issue with it and enjoy that sort of driving.
The traditional transmission in the other car was basically smooth, but I'm not sure I prefer that compared to the advantages of the 9 speed, like 0-60 and highway cruising at 1300rpm
First off, all the complaints about slow acceleration should not be grouped with the hard shifting. The acceleration involves the drive by wire throttle as well as the transmission. I honestly don't think people understand that. I also think you can adjust your driving style to get the most out of the vehicle. The transmission is great 0-60.
Second, we also compared a car with a traditional transmission back to back with the tlxes. We tried all the ids modes, including sport plus.
My opinion first was that I didn't notice anything. The passenger said it was rough like a manual or sports car.
After comparing to the traditional I had to agree that the traditional was smooth and not noticeable, while the tlx had a minimum roughness/bump. I tried specifically at various rpms. Perhaps the bump is slightly more noticeable on 1-2-3. I tried extremely hard to find anything like what's been described here.
But it's a far cry from the complaints here. So either it's impossible to feel the issue on test drives or some people are very picky. As a driver, I have no issue with it and enjoy that sort of driving.
The traditional transmission in the other car was basically smooth, but I'm not sure I prefer that compared to the advantages of the 9 speed, like 0-60 and highway cruising at 1300rpm
Last edited by iesu3423; Sep 25, 2015 at 12:07 AM.
Suzuka Master
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,564
Likes: 1,093
From: Sugar Land, TX
iesu3423, just what are you trying to prove here? So, you test drove several and DID notice the harder 2-3 shift, harder than other cars but to you, it itsn't bad.. It's beyond your comprehension that there are some cars that behave differently.
IMO, you are merely being a troll on this thread. If you have no issues or find the harder shift within your comfort zone, that is great but do not insult our intelligence with your opinions.
You read where several of us cringe as we accelerate.. to you, we are just picky? I have no idea why some cars, maybe most cars do not have this problem. I'd gladly trade for one of those in a heartbeat.. but that is not an option at this time nor has Acura suggested/offered after months and months of complaints from me.
IMO, you are merely being a troll on this thread. If you have no issues or find the harder shift within your comfort zone, that is great but do not insult our intelligence with your opinions.
You read where several of us cringe as we accelerate.. to you, we are just picky? I have no idea why some cars, maybe most cars do not have this problem. I'd gladly trade for one of those in a heartbeat.. but that is not an option at this time nor has Acura suggested/offered after months and months of complaints from me.
Last edited by Stew4HD; Sep 25, 2015 at 04:04 AM.
Racer
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 433
Likes: 115
From: So California
I apologize if this has been answered before. Good luck.
Instructor
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 166
Likes: 52
iesu: By your response, I take it you work for Acura also? We have said time and time again, the shifting issues occur in varying levels of severity. I have driven a couple that were very minimally noticeable. Those are probably the norm now, and what you are feeling when you test drive. I agree with Stew, I would happily trade my TLX in for one of those. I told my service manager, Michelle, and my DSM (forget his name, but for the central Texas region) about the great way that those transmissions shifted. But mine is different. The two service managers agreed. I have 8 service invoices proving there is a problem, and they have tried to fix it.
Can't you just accept the fact that there are some (a handful, a few, many?.. who knows with this transmission) that shift MUCH worse than what Acura has intended?
By the way, my first service invoice is dated a month after I bought the car. The issue was not there when purchased. What makes you think you will notice something on test drives?
(Also, for the record: just like rodbac above, my car had 4 miles on it when delivered. Still had plastic on it. I was told I didn't need to test drive it because it "drove just like the others" I had tested. Then, at around 100 miles, the shifting started to get terrible. )
If this is a "learning" transmission, mine failed school and will forever work at McDonalds.
Can't you just accept the fact that there are some (a handful, a few, many?.. who knows with this transmission) that shift MUCH worse than what Acura has intended?
By the way, my first service invoice is dated a month after I bought the car. The issue was not there when purchased. What makes you think you will notice something on test drives?
(Also, for the record: just like rodbac above, my car had 4 miles on it when delivered. Still had plastic on it. I was told I didn't need to test drive it because it "drove just like the others" I had tested. Then, at around 100 miles, the shifting started to get terrible. )
If this is a "learning" transmission, mine failed school and will forever work at McDonalds.
Suzuka Master
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,564
Likes: 1,093
From: Sugar Land, TX
Stew, even though they haven't suggested/offered it, if you really insisted on a trade (with them eating most of the depreciation hit), would they be at all receptive? It just seems like you got really screwed on this deal and they ought to do something about it.
I apologize if this has been answered before. Good luck.
I apologize if this has been answered before. Good luck.
ACR doesn't even respond to my emails to them now. I write them each month to let them know that another month has passed and I still have a bad shifting car.
Old Man Yelling at Clouds
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,973
Likes: 7,362
From: Seattle, WA
First off, all the complaints about slow acceleration should not be grouped with the hard shifting. The acceleration involves the drive by wire throttle as well as the transmission. I honestly don't think people understand that. I also think you can adjust your driving style to get the most out of the vehicle. The transmission is great 0-60.
I sold Acuras in the early 90's. I've owned four, logging over 250,000 miles across them. I have been, for the last 25 years, a huge fan of Acura. I've only had one non-maintenance related issue out of warranty across all four cars. So for me to speak poorly of one is a big deal, and I don't do it lightly.
Stop trying to convince us we are confusing drive by wire behavior with the poor driving characteristics of this transmission. We know the difference. And if you aren't experiencing the same thing we are well that's fine. Since Acura is selling thousands per month, clearly a majority of people either don't notice or don't care. We happen to notice and we do care, and we're allowed to think it's a problem.
Advanced
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 97
Likes: 6
Really I just have one question - why are you working so hard defending this transmission? More to the point, why are you working so hard trying to discredit the rest of us? I'd really like to know. Because the way you are approaching this discussion makes you sound like nothing more than an Acura employee out here to do damage control on an issue that's getting more and more visibility.
I sold Acuras in the early 90's. I've owned four, logging over 250,000 miles across them. I have been, for the last 25 years, a huge fan of Acura. I've only had one non-maintenance related issue out of warranty across all four cars. So for me to speak poorly of one is a big deal, and I don't do it lightly.
Stop trying to convince us we are confusing drive by wire behavior with the poor driving characteristics of this transmission. We know the difference. And if you aren't experiencing the same thing we are well that's fine. Since Acura is selling thousands per month, clearly a majority of people either don't notice or don't care. We happen to notice and we do care, and we're allowed to think it's a problem.
I sold Acuras in the early 90's. I've owned four, logging over 250,000 miles across them. I have been, for the last 25 years, a huge fan of Acura. I've only had one non-maintenance related issue out of warranty across all four cars. So for me to speak poorly of one is a big deal, and I don't do it lightly.
Stop trying to convince us we are confusing drive by wire behavior with the poor driving characteristics of this transmission. We know the difference. And if you aren't experiencing the same thing we are well that's fine. Since Acura is selling thousands per month, clearly a majority of people either don't notice or don't care. We happen to notice and we do care, and we're allowed to think it's a problem.
It's tough after having driven ~10 of these cars (a couple with more mileage) to see these complaints and not understand what people are talking about. But it's really a problem that a lot of complaints seem related just to design (like the drive-by-wire throttle, etc.) versus potentially real issues where the software is problematic/Acura should take more serious action.
With the transmission, for instance, obviously just by having more gears, it's going to not be as "smooth" as a 6 speed in that sense. The car is going to be looking for the most economical gear, and there are a lot of choices, including gears that would require a dog shift. It seems like the complaints are generally more "it doesn't behave like my 6 speed" and not "it's defective even for a 9 speed." I am trying to sift through that personally because I have no built-in expectation for the 6 speed (after having driven mostly rental cars in terrible condition) and actually want a lot of the advantages of a 9 speed. With that said, if the 9 speed is seriously messed up, I want to help raise attention there and get a conclusive fix.
I find it hard to believe that you can tell the difference between the transmission and the drive-by-wire throttle. If the complaint is slow acceleration, it seems obvious that it's going to be a combo of those systems as well as others.
I have a question: is the hard shifting people are experiencing worse or the same as what one would experience with a manual?
Last edited by iesu3423; Sep 25, 2015 at 01:07 PM.
Old Man Yelling at Clouds
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,973
Likes: 7,362
From: Seattle, WA
^ Thanks for clarifying.
To answer your question, I can shift a manual silky smooth in most cases. What I'm experiencing in the 2-3 shift would be considered a "bad shift" by anyone driving a manual. To maybe put it in that context, imagine you are in 2nd gear in a manual and you go to shift. Push the clutch in, shift to third, and just as you start to re-engage the clutch (maybe 25% of the way into it) your foot slips off the pedal. The resulting jerk you'd experience is about the same sensation I get. Every single time I accelerate from 0 - 30.
Personally, I just think a 9 speed is too much if it's implemented like this. I've suspected that's the reason behind the long delay in shifting on the highway if you want a passing gear. If you haven't done that already, get somewhere where you are going 50 mph at a cruising speed and floor it. See what it does. So I'll concede the point that part of my dissatisfaction is just with the number of gears. The other is clearly the bad 2-3 shift.
However, regardless if this is defect or just "the nature of the beast", it's a bad choice and is resulting in a bad driving experience. I think the 2-3 shift is a problem and can (and should) be fixed. The downshift delay is probably just due to too many gears. But if none of that bothers you, enjoy the car. It's an amazing car in most other aspects.
To answer your question, I can shift a manual silky smooth in most cases. What I'm experiencing in the 2-3 shift would be considered a "bad shift" by anyone driving a manual. To maybe put it in that context, imagine you are in 2nd gear in a manual and you go to shift. Push the clutch in, shift to third, and just as you start to re-engage the clutch (maybe 25% of the way into it) your foot slips off the pedal. The resulting jerk you'd experience is about the same sensation I get. Every single time I accelerate from 0 - 30.
Personally, I just think a 9 speed is too much if it's implemented like this. I've suspected that's the reason behind the long delay in shifting on the highway if you want a passing gear. If you haven't done that already, get somewhere where you are going 50 mph at a cruising speed and floor it. See what it does. So I'll concede the point that part of my dissatisfaction is just with the number of gears. The other is clearly the bad 2-3 shift.
However, regardless if this is defect or just "the nature of the beast", it's a bad choice and is resulting in a bad driving experience. I think the 2-3 shift is a problem and can (and should) be fixed. The downshift delay is probably just due to too many gears. But if none of that bothers you, enjoy the car. It's an amazing car in most other aspects.
2015 TLX SH-AWD Elite BWP
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 432
Likes: 69
From: Montreal
My son got a Hyundai genesis 2 doors manual and I enjoy it to drive it a while ago. Let me tell you that I got very smooth gear changes once you catch the right engaging point and doing it myself is "predictable" which I cannot say about the TLX .The most annoying being that it happens on inconsistent way.
I was out for lunch today and my colleague on the right seat is asking me why the car was "bumping" when accelerating .
I answer "it's by design"
