Flipster23

iTrader: (15)

We have 87/89/91 in Northern Cali.

I've heard there is 100 octane out here as well...

Saintor

Well I'll give you that you proved your point.

I run a mfg plant with 10000s of components bought all over the world. If engineers would come with more different custom components to manage / support separately. in order to have only 3% less output of an otherwise identical product, I'd kick their *sses. I thought that Honda was more efficient. After having read this, I first guessed that they gave the trucks more torque at lower rpm. Not even that!

Bottom line is unchanged though. You can run on regular and the possible downside is ultimate power by a negligible fraction.

Those guys fully agree.

https://www.consumerreports.org/fuel...mium-gasoline/

Christopher.

I was using Regular because the dealer told me that using decent quality gas was more important than Premium vs Regular (he said Regular is perfectly fine, just use a good brand).

I've since switched to Premium gas for the last couple tanks and don't notice any difference.

Actually, the main reason I was using Regular gas was Consumer Reports test which showed zero improvement in either gas mileage or performance when using Premium gas over Regular (and the TLX was one of the two cars featured in that test report).

edit: Oh, I see Saintor mentined that very same report one post above mine...

kingofire

I have never used premium gas in any luxury cars I have owned(Lexus, MB, BMW, Audi, Acura). I just do 10,000 mile oil changes and right before the oil change I will dump in a can of BG 44K to keep the injectors clean. Had a mechanic scope the injectors and pistons a few times in my last car, Audi and even he was impressed how clean they were. Hasn't failed me yet so I'll keep doing that! IMO, no need for premium fuel at all!

losiglow

iTrader: (1)

I'm afraid advertising has worked on me. I can't argue that it makes a difference or not. But I've always used Premium and don't intend to change.

Doing the math based on my average fuel mileage, yearly miles driven and increased cost of premium here in Utah, I'm looking at an extra $250 per year or so. I make more than that in one weekend driving Uber. Small price for potential engine longevity and increased power - both due to decreased knock which would otherwise cause engine damage over time as well as result in the ECU pulling timing which affects power output. Each to his own though. I very well might be flushing $250 down the toilet each year. That's a chance I'm willing to take, even if it turns out to be snake oil.

BEAR-AvHistory

Interesting piece in the gas wars.

Premium vs Regular - Acura MDX Forum : Acura MDX SUV Forums

Current Reg 87 vs Premium 93 at 12,000 miles a year (USA Average) is $240 in Raleigh. People who are really concerned about spending that might think about 89 mid grade as a good split the difference.

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

I submit if you hadn't used the BG 44K (aka. l'huile de serpent), your mechanic would have made the same comment.

Christopher.

Which kind of Uber do you do? The Uber "Select"?

Christopher.

All these explanations about knock and retarded timing - and yet, all the test results I have seen with our cars (2015+ TLX V6) shows zero improvement in either MPG or performance for using Premium gas over Regular.

Explain that please.

Also, so many insults being thrown by the defensive seeming Premium users at the people who don't want to waste money for no reason? You can afford cars like Acuras in the first place, either because you're not stupid with your money, or, somebody else earned that money for you, IMO.

hadokenuh

Use whatever gas you like.

And please let the next buyer know the kind of gas you've been using, so they can make an informed decision, will you?

losiglow

iTrader: (1)

Not sure if that was directed at me or not - since I mentioned knock and timing. I clearly said that I can't argue that it helps or not. I don't have that discussion because I haven't seen any studies or tests to show that premium fuel works any better than regular. But it's like vitamins for me. I'm not sure they help. But they're cheap so I figure what the hell. Can't hurt. Same with premium. It's going to at least be as good as regular, with a fairly strong possibility that it will be better. Between exhaust, intake, lightweight components and tuning, I've spent nearly $4000 modding my TL. In my case, it wouldn't make much sense to run regular over premium to save $250 a year when premium could potentially provide better performance and longevity. But that's just me. I wouldn't try to convince anyone else do it if they don't want to.

Yes, I drive Uber Select but also take regular UberX rides if I'm just driving the bar scene. If I drive up in Park City during special events like the Sundance Film Festival or various yuppie conventions, I'll just do Select since there's plenty of demand for that when the high-rollers are in town So far, all the ballers I've drive around have been happy. I get plenty of compliments on how comfy the seats are and how smooth the car rides. And it still handles like a Boss in snow with Blizzak's on, even just being FWD.

pyrodan007

Didn't you say you wanted to install a turbo on your engine at one point? If you do, will you keep on using regular gas? It's the same engine after all so should run the same, no?

Christopher.

I did not say I'm using regular, I said that I want to see some valid non-biased tests showing me why I should [keep] using premium (because I think I'm wasting money doing so - granted, it's not a lot of money).

The best reason I can think of to keep using premium at the moment, is simply so I can honestly tell the next buyer of my car that I used premium (if I sell it).
Depends on the tune right? I imagine "just premium" at that point (if I have a turbo). I'm not after "winning at the track" type performance, I'd just like a little more grunt at the bottom - however, I'm not sure it's worth going after much more HP/Torque than I have already, without the SH-AWD version? I'm not at all interested in increasing my top speed. I like the feel of acceleration. As my car is now, what I want (and seems lacking) is a faster reaction to the throttle. Overall acceleration and speed are OK as is. My car is already "fun" and "fast", in addition to being quiet, comfortable, and pleasing in most regards.

Better tires and less "throttle lag" would put me beyond "happy with my car" into: "damn I love this fucking car" territory.

Edit: I wish we were allowed to "tune" our cars without voiding the warranty - it seems that they are not turned to actually take advantage of Premium gas, from the factory?

fiatlux

WTF, you want more throttle response so your solution is to slap on a turbo? You're going to get the exact opposite of what you want.

Christopher.

I don't believe that the exhaust turbine on a turbo drags down the low end that much? I know the phrase "turbo lag", but I don't believe that is in relation to slowing down an existing engine, I believe it's that when a car [designer] addresses the desire for more horsepower through a turbo rather than displacement, it's just that you don't get that added power until later than how quickly a big torquey V-8 could deliver it to you?
Two separate issues I mentioned: 1) low end torque, 2) throttle lag. Turbo can increase low end torque - I would choose a setup that primarily gave early boost, the top end is already hot enough for me.

As to the throttle lag? Well, torque converters contribute a lot to that "rubber band" feeling? But I guess our V6 TLXs don't have torque converters? Just the DCTs? So, for the V6 what's to be done is basically a couple options? Re-programming the speed at which the throttle initially opens? I'm noob, but, I believe there's somehing called the TCU [Throttle Control Unit]? I might like the "Sprint Booster", but I don't believe it actually does what I want, the way I would want it to, I think it simply makes it as if you'd pressed the throttle down further?

Saintor

The best cure to throttle lag is Sport+ Plus mode.

kingofire

I highly doubt it with direct injection and supercharged. These engines run hot and deposits are very common. He has shown me videos of other Audi A6's of my vintage with good amount of carbon build up on the pistons.

RDX10

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

And this is relevant because?

CPR

All the Sunoco stations in the NYC area sell 91 octane
The rest sell 93 octane
FYI: After 7 Acura's since '98; (all 6 cylinder), trial & error, & extensive discussions with dealer mechanics, I use PREMIUM
Not saying the car won't run on Regular, but it seems that especially during summer months, with the A/C cranking, the car has more power, & runs smoother, in stop, & go traffic
To each, his own, but that's IMHO

fiatlux

No, that is not turbo lag. What you described is boost threshold.

1) The ZF9 does have a torque converter
2) This "rubber band" feeling you're talking about is associated with CVTs. It has nothing to do with torque converters
3) Throttle lag has nothing to do with a transmission. Throttle lag refers to how long it takes for the engine to respond to your pedal inputs.
4) Please don't turbo your car if you don't understand these basics

Christopher.

1) Show me where it says the ZF9 used in the V6 version of the Acura TLX has a torque converter.
2) What I mean by that is that I press the gas pedal and I hear the engine rev, but there is an undesired delay before I feel acceleration.
3) But, the transmission *is* a significant factor in how the acceleration of the car feels, and the driver's overall satisfaction with performance when driving the car for "fun", or, in situations where one desires the car to deliver fast response to input.
4) The limit of torque that the transmission in my car is rated to handle, is over 450 ft lbs.

F23A4

svtmike

https://www.acurapartsdelivered.com/...TZ34A1400.html

Christopher.

Regardless of whether or not it is technically correct, when many (if not most) people say "turbo lag", they are including the delay from when they start pressing the accelerator to when the boost threshold is reached.

Thanks for that - whenever you read about the power trains on Acura's web page or in brochures etc. they specifically mention the torque converter when they tlak about the 8 DCT in the 2.4 TLX literature, but no mention of a torque converter when talking about the V6 power train.

fiatlux

fiatlux

Christopher.

Back on topic (gas) - here in Ohio I haven't found 91 octane, only 87, 89, and 93. Even if it doesn't add up to thousands of dollars a year, the size of the upcharge for premium is really annoying. It wouldn't bother me if it was more like 20 - 30 cents a gallon difference in price. But it seems like when the price of gas goes down, the gap in price between regular and premium still remains high.

There seems to be a wider variation in prices for premium, than regular though, so I particularly like using the app Gas Buddy, now that I'm buying premium gas (or sometimes mixing 1/2 and 1/2 if I feel like I have the time and don't mind the hassle).

But, I'd been trying to talk about the overall delay in acceleration from when you press the accelerator pedal. Not just throttle lag - I suppose using that term is too specific...

When you press the accelerator and hear the engine rev, and yet, there as a perceptible delay [from when the RPMs have increased] to when you start feeling the appropriate amount of corresponding thrust, the only logical possible source of that delay, is the transmission (assuming we're not losing traction).

Yes, there is some slight throttle lag with the V6 TLX of course, and that is a different issue but the two combine causing the same symptom: delay from when you press the accelerator to when peak torque reaches the wheels and the "butt dyno" feels the power.

I want my car to have that feeling of immediate, tight, responsive connectedness between the gas pedal and torque at the wheel similar to how when you start pushing the pedal on a bicycle there is a (practically) immediate delivery of torque to the wheel... Even if I don't have 600HP or a car that can go 200MPH - do I simply have to get a manual transmission to get that feeling back? Even very cheap lite small engine cars can give that feeling - however, when I test drove the Honda Fit it felt like the engine was simply TOO small to make it fun...

BEAR-AvHistory

Chris just to uncouple the two things a little more. All AT's as fiatlux said have torque converters. This goes back to the early 1940 with M18 Hellcat tank destroyer built by BUICK had a GM Hydra-Matic. Some M4 Sherman's had an automatic transmission using a torque converter, with electric steering and braking, Infiniti take note,

BUT all torque converters are not the same. They come with different stall speeds & lock up points. Stall speed is how high the engine with rev with the brakes locked. A loose converter will allow the engine to rev higher then a tight one. Depending on when lock-up is programmed into the unit this can allow some engine rev before the car moves in normal driving.

Programming can manipulate these factors which gives AT's like the ZF8 to have Launch Control settings that enable high RPM launches over what a normal stall speed limitation might be in the same car.

Varying settings can give a lot of variance in driving "feel" just like throttle programming can & does. Way more to your "feel" issue the one thing. Think you need to get a much better understanding about what you are talking about on your own instead of trying to have everybody else educate you with a "prove-it" demand. Its also why in most car discussions feel sucks as an adjective because its subjective based on experience, To some a TLX is a quick car to others its not very quick.

Much of what you are talking about needs no proof as they are just basic auto mechanics 101 for dummy's facts.

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

Hmmm, last time I checked, VW's DSG is an automatic transmission without a torque converter.

BEAR-AvHistory

(German: Direkt-Schalt-Getriebe), commonly abbreviated to DSG, is an electronically controlled dual-clutch multiple-shaft manual gearbox in a transaxle design




Doesn't the DSG have twin wet clutches & 7 forward speeds? IIRC Porsche calls their version the PDK.

BEAR-AvHistory

Maybe someone might pick up an outlier like, 1940/50 pre-select type drives but the classic AT has some kind of a fluid coupling, torque converter, attached to a transmission that has internal clutch packs or bands or both controlling sun & planetary gears that make up the ratios. The DCT/PDK/DSG are driven by a single or dual clutch with a normal gear box like a regular manual transmission.

Honda stuck a torque converter into the DCT to try to overcome an harshness in launching the car. Don't know if this is a good idea or not but the more modern standard AT's are starting to replace the DCT units.

BTW for what its worth or not worth the US Army said I was qualified to rebuild both AT & MT transmissions & have owned or have a lot of seat time in MT 7DCT. 8ZF & PDK. Have never opened a DCT but liked the one in my 335is.

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

Just because a transmission has a mechanical gearbox which resembles that of a manual transmission, that in no way qualifies as a manual. Fortunately the English language is very good at describing technology, and any transmission capable of shifting for itself is by definition an automatic transmission.

Drei

iTrader: (2)

You should only use 91 or 93 octane gas

Christopher.

I'm almost 50 years old and the TLX is the first car I ever bought with an automatic transmission where there was an option of choosing a different similar car with a manual (in this case, I could have gone with the Accord 2.0 Sport, which, I suppose I should have, in hindsight. Other than a Camry, which I inherited and my recent Sienna, my cars have almost all had manual transmissions. While I do like to learn and understand how basically everything works, including torque converters, I'd had no reason to learn about automatics in relation to performance cars, until now.

If someone has liked "performance" cars for many years, occasionally repaired and/or rebuilt them, it's perfectly reasonable that they could have an in depth understanding how basic old 4 cycle engines work, but not bothered to dig in to automatics until now, as manual transmissions are starting to go the way of the dinosaur...

I had assumed that my car must have a torque converter, based on how it feels to drive it. When I tried to read the power train specifications, I found it strange that it was not mentioned, and guessed that my assumption might be wrong? But I still had a "nagging feeling" that it must have one, or how else could it have that disconnected soft acceleration feel when you start from stop??

In the past, before I got my TLX, I had just figured that automatics had an automatic clutch, but I was a little perplexed wondering why they didn't wear out faster - now I know it's because they have torque converters... If I had a shop with a lift, and a few spare engines and transmissions, I would try replacing the fluid in my torque converter with a higher viscosity one.

pyrodan007

So a manual must have the third pedal then to be fully manual. What if you remove all logic from modern transmissions, they very much become manual like. If not, modern F1 cars are automatic too then.

BEAR-AvHistory

OK you win they are just the same as the classic AT should just be called 7/8AT just like the classic 7/8AT's. Acura no longer needs to waste print & video adds touting the 8DCT in the 4 cylinder car, since its just an 8AT

Cancel the automotive industry common usage definition of a manual gearbox with an electrically controlled shifting as 7DCT/PDK/DSG to separate it functionally from the standard built torque converter AT with entirely different internal hardware & just use AT for all in accordance with the grammar police.

Best send the memo to the Porsche guys who invented the thing in 1980 as an electronically controlled dual-clutchmultiple-shaft manual gearbox" DSG/PDK as they apparently neglected to look at a dictionary for the correct word usage.

Then get onto the manufactures about how the word Coupe is been kicked around in automotive usage along with Sports Car, Sports Sedan (TLX?) & on & on.

BEAR-AvHistory

Maybe I was too harsh with the words. Questions are always good. The point I was making, not very well apparently, is the way to go about it is to try looking up the info on your own. If the original answer does not make sense or is unclear question is difference from what you found say I found this why did you say that.

Just look at the DCT AT thing its a good example. Most car guys will say a DCT is a DCT & an AT is an AT. Some obviously will have a different opinion based on the dictionary. Both have correct points of view from their frame of reference. If I say 7DCT to one of my BMW club members they will think 335is or a few other limited production cars & if I say my 440 is an AT they will think its an 8ZF.

Some extra noise

Dec 7, 2015 - That allows quicker gear shifts than manual transmissions. And since the dual-clutch gearbox does not require a torque converter, it's more efficient than an automatic transmission. Supercar makers McLaren, Lamborghini, Ferrari and Porsche all adopted dual- clutch gearboxes, whose rapid shifts rendered ...

One industry term is "automated manual transmission" to separate it from a classic AT

Jul 9, 2015 - Essentially, a DCT is an automated manual transmission which uses two separate clutches, one of each odd and even gear sets. So it almost seems like a DCT is two manual gearboxes stuffed into one housing.

When you say "prove it" to every point you are asking the person making the comment to do the work you might have done on your own. Some of the guys here have very good backgrounds in automotive stuff & have facts in their heads & are not looking to do internet cut & paste to prove answers for some basic questions.

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

Yes, to be a Manual transmission it must have a third pedal; by definition, the transmissions in modern F1 cars are Semi-Automatic transmissions.

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

It doesn't matter what a car maker wants to call something from a marketing perspective, if you refer to any authoritative dictionary you will find the real answer.