TLX vs es350 with UL package - pls help
 

I just drove both cars in their both amazing !! However I need help deciding which one to go with. I'm afraid of the transmission problems in the TLX. The one I distro definitely had some problems with transmission. In the sports mode it was fantastic but in the normal mode there were a lot of hiccups.


I really need help deciding and would appreciate any input you guys him. Of course I understand this is an Acura forum so there are going to be done passionate people...

The purpose of this car is only for me to drive occasionally wife and two kids, but I'll be driving about hundred and 20 miles a day.

By the way I'm considering v6 - most likely fwd but may pick up awd if the deal is good

how often do you change cars, the car is has 5 years warranty and you can buy the extended warranty. No issues so fat with the V6 transmission. Very resposnive. Acura is more sportier more geared toward youngers, Lexus ES350 i see more older people driving it.
Lexus doesnt have nearly as much technology than Acura. I briefly considered IS250 but went with TLX advance . Very happy so far.

I don't change them often.... I most likely will drive it for ~ 150k and then sell it

I drive my TLX V6 SH-AWD Tech primarily in normal mode and have adjusted pretty well to the first two shifts which are not as smooth as the other 6 shifts. However, I feather the throttle usually when starting for good gas mileage and when the car is warmed up don't find it a big deal. I am confident Acura will provide some programming to smooth them out a little, but if not, it's not a major concern to me as I love the car. I suggest determine what you want in terms of features in both cars, then price them out, list the plusses and minuses of each, then make a decision based on the facts AND your gut. Once you do, don't look back!

The TLX will provide more for less compared to the Lexus, but likely will have a few more teething issues. Ultimately, you have to measure that against what you want to spend and any concerns you have. BTW, if you want to go with FWD with the PAWs, you should also drive the 2.4. Lots of pep, and I found the transmission to be very smooth when I drove it, although there are also some concerns about that tranny that have been expressed here. Either version of the TLX is an excellent value, but drive them again before you make your call. Try to drive one that you would actually purchase. Same with the Lexus.

I hope it works out for you and you join the TLX family. Either way, happy motoring.

You might want to check out a review comparing the TLX to the ES.

http://driving.ca/lexus/es-350/revie...-2015-lexus-es

I haven't driven the ES 350, but I did test drive the IS 350 AWD before buying an SH-AWD TLX... I would assume that the TLX falls somewhere between the ES and IS in terms of performance and "driving feel" (with the IS as the best "performer"), but the TLX beats both of them in terms of value (at least in Canada, where the Lexus prices grow higher than Acura as you pile on the options).

The 9AT is not the smoothest transmission, but as others have said you get used to it and it wasn't a deal breaker for me. On the bright side, I am impressed by the fuel economy that I've been getting (while still breaking in my new car) on my V6 AWD car.

My wife's car is a Toyota Venza with the same basic engine (3.5 V6) and transmission (6 speed) combo as both Lexus' and we've been disappointed so far with fuel consumption (even though we recognize it's a bigger vehicle) - that's another reason why I was turned off by the Lexus IS.

in that case i'd take the ES350. that combo of 3.5 V6 motor and 6 speed auto is battle tested and bullet proof, you can get 200k miles on them easily. and the current ES is still built in Japan, the quality is definitely there. if you don't need an AWD and plan to keep the car long term, go with the ES350.

I'd get the TLX over the ES, hands down. The majority of transmission issues are on the 4 cyl version.

You should have been able to tell the difference in handling right away. I found the ES to be very soft and not even close to being as nimble as the TLX.

Try a different TLX and see if you have the same shifting hiccups, what ever they were that you had. I drive mine 100% in Sports mode, sine the first week.

Good luck on your choice!

Welcome to AZ. IMO, the 9AT, "problem" shifts are a little like finding a dead pixel on an LED TV. You can have months of enjoyment, but if someone points it out, you can't NOT see it from then on. I would stop short of saying that it's all in your mind, but clearly some people are more sensitive to the feel of the TLX transmission than others. Only you know if you're that person. I will say this, the TLX transmission does learn and will change its behavior after a period of ownership. As Mapleloaf noted, the driver also gets more acclimated after a few tanks of gas.

Here's a comparison test I stumbled onto:

Car Comparison: 2015 Acura TLX vs. 2015 Lexus ES | Driving

They seemed to prefer the TLX (even the 2.4), especially for the money.

Hope this helps.

What tech does the TLX have that the ES350 does not have at least as an option? LED headlights are the only thing I can think of? Pre-Collision, Dynamic Radar Cruise control, Lane Departure, Rear Cross Traffic, Blind Spot Monitoring are all options on the ES.

The ES350 is intended to serve a different purpose than the TLX - your choice imho should be based on your priorities.

The ES is larger and going to have more space in the rear seat, it is also intended to be a luxury cruiser - handling is not going to be its strong point, comfort is really the strong point. Although the ES's Sport mode makes it feel a little bit sportier than the previous gen ES. The UL package is pretty cool though, the panorama roof is nice.

If you do go the ES route - make sure you talk to the dealer about building one. The Lexus.com Online builder is notoriously bad and you can usually get exactly the options you want if you order one. With the March Lexus Command Performance Event you might be able to get a really good deal on the ES, maybe enough to make it cheaper or more competitive at least with a TLX Advance.

The TLX is smaller - though not too small, and is going to handle a lot better than the ES. Value wise, it is going to be a better value at MSRP for sure - the Advanced Package gives you all of the tech options that the ES has in one package.

If you want to stay Lexus, you could also consider a CPO GS350, which would give you more of the sportiness out of a Lexus but with interior space comparable to the TLX (the IS is smaller than the TLX).

It really comes down to what your priorities are.

I thought the ES was a bit outdated inside and out. I actually like the set up of the tlx interior, looks more futuristic and modern. People are bashing the tlx design but put it next to the ES, and the ES looks very 2002.
The tlx is definitely more sporty, on accord platform. ES is avalon platform now, larger.

I think the TLX has lane keep assist (in addition to lane departure warning) and GPS-linked climate control, hard disk, and LED headlights. The ES has panoramic roof.

The Lexus Build Your Car site is pretty darn confusing. But it seems like a fully loaded ES350 is more $$ than a fully loaded TLX. Feature wise, I don't think there's much difference. But a fully loaded TLX does come with the SH-AWD system, which is a huge bonus. Otherwise if you stick with a fully loaded FWD TLX, then you are looking at $42.6k.

ES350 hands down.

Having owned a 2010 ES and a recent trip in a 2014 ES on the interstate, they are both great cars. Neither UL, but both had luxury package.
The Acura has better road feel, the Lexus has more float and less feel. The new ES are base on Avalon platform, definitely more room in the back of ES. If you are considering the SH-AWD, then you have the AWD advantage. I was very surprised to get nearly 30 mpg on our trip home in the TLX (interstate drive, 180 miles).

If one was to go to the ClubLexus ES350 site and ask the same question.. how many would say to pick the TLX? None?

The tlx hate is real though. Even if it were the better and more worthwhile car, people would still say it's just a upscale accord,etc,etc. Objective people would see that it is a worthwhile car regardless of its under pinnings. Fanboys and haters will come up with any reason though, such as styling, which isn't even that bad anymore.. The ES is probably a better tourer though, and the tlx looks and performs a bit more sporty. Then again the ES average age buyer is probably 50+..

I have to ask, is the Avalon really a platform? It has always been a stretched version of the Camry. Is this not still the case? I mean, we're not taking Toyotas word for it are we? They would have us believe that every MMC for the RX was an all new car.

You are going to drive 120 miles a day? And you keep your vehicles to 150-200k? You are going to have to go with the ES350 on this one. If the TLX had been out for a while, you can probably consider that. But you probably need reliability on your side in this circumstance. That 3.5 liter and 6 speed transmission have been used in many vehicles and have minimal problems.

ES350 - For the more mature crowd, who most likely has substantial investments in other things in life (another car, retirement savings, substantial properties) and are looking for the bullet-proof reliability, reputation, and predictability that only first-class Toyota engineering can provide. Toyota knows its customers well, and their cars never try to do too much, but does what it's designed for extremely well.

TLX - More for younger, single-car people who need a do-everything car. These people value perceived performance and a "younger" image more than absolute quality (as long as the quality is "good enough"). Acura doesn't have the reputation, engineering, and quality that Lexus, or even Toyota, has, so isn't so successful at wooing customers who are seeking the reputation of the "gold standard." The TLX attempts to woo with more electronic gadgets, but one thing that Honda Motor Corporation really sucks at is releasing cars that don't have tons of bugs (in these same gadgets) the first model year.

The demographics of the target customer are completely different. Which one are you? If you don't want aggravation for 150k miles, I too would bet on the Lexus.

Good point:) Perhaps we are a fairer crowd!

Oh hell….don't be a fool….buy the TLX!

Acura has just as good a reputation for quality and reliability as Lexus. It has a higher resale value as well. Yes, the TLX is new but I see no reason to think it will be any less reliable than the Lexus.

Too funny seeing the TLX being called "perceived performance" and a "younger image" by a 4G, non TLX owner (his perception). I do not see the TLX as either, which is why I bought one. The ES350 doesn't come close to me. Just drive them back to back. The TLX feels more connected to the road, the ES is what it is, a cruiser.

Toyota K platform, which first came out in 2000, serves the following cars:
Avalon
Camry
Highlander
RX
Sienna
Venza
ES

So yes, Camry and Avalon and ES are all on the same platform.

Although the present Camry, Avalon and Lexus ES share the same powertrain the Avalon and ES do not share the Camry platform. There is a good explanation at 2013 Lexus ES Swaps Camry for Avalon Platform to Improve Global Appeal » AutoGuide.com News

I think the thread posts are straying a wee bit:)

It's just marketing. But essentially all of them are on the Toyota K platform. Rather than reading what the Lexus Marketing person says, you can read more about it from the Chief Engineer of the Avalon:
U.S. engineering team leads 2013 Avalon program - SAE International

I believe the author was just regurgitating the Toyota presser. The RLX has a longer wheelbase than the Accord, but it doesn't mean its a new platform. Extending the analogy further, the LS and GS are the same platforms with different wheelbases, same for the BMW 5,7 (and 3?). AS they say, it's just a sausage of a different length. Anyway, this is not to say that the Camry chassis is good or bad. Just that its amusing that on AZ the RLX is just a 'glorified Accord' but somehow, the ES is something other than a big Camry.

Having owned 3 Generations of LS, I am pretty sure the LS is on its own chassis, while the GS shares its chassis with the Toyota Crown.

Lets not stray from the OP's question guys.... I vote TLX. For the sheer value and technology its hard to beat the TLX. I may consider ES if needed that huge space frequently such as (having more than 1-2 kids or 2-3 passengers) needing frequent airport runs.
Be mindful that the ES is not the classic "quiet solitude" that Lexus is known for.

Have to disagree with you on the engineering point. I don't think anyone "out-engineers" Honda. VTEC, SH-AWD, etc. are all Honda breakthroughs. If you dig into one of their engines, you will see astonishing quality and elegant engineering touches that no one else has. A German motor looks like a '30s era farm implement in comparison.

More specifically, same wheelbase, stretched platform.(111 inch ES/Avalon vs. Camry 109.3).
The TLX is better all-around for me (particularly road feel) but the ES is a very nice car.

Sorry, but could you clarify that? So the ES isn't as quiet as other Lexuses, as the TLX? Based on sheer noise decibels?

I, too, used to have the perception that Honda was a real engineering company, but that was back in the 90's. They came out with CVCC in their 70's Civics, offered double wishbone suspensions in their cars in the 80's, VTEC in the 90's (in the US), and SH-AWD in the 2000's. However, they've really stagnated in the current decade - their cars have gone back to struts, they've lost their low-cowl interior dashboards due to current safely standards, and VTEC offers only two discrete camshaft profiles. By now, everyone offers some sort of continuous variable valve timing (ok, but maybe not everyone offers variable lift). Everyone also offers some sort of AWD (not SH-AWD); the problem is that SH-AWD is a twist that only real fans of hardware (such as myself) will appreciate, and most entry-level RWD cars handle just as well without SH-AWD.

Toyota, on the other hand, almost single-handedly brought the hybrid drivetrain from science-fiction to the mass-market. They've combined their reputation of solid reliability with technology on a pay-as-you basis, with your bare-bones Toyotas offering solid no-frill engineering, while more expensive Lexus models offering much higher levels of technology while still maintaining the corporate culture of quality. Meanwhile, Honda and Acura are stuck churning one Accord variant after another (with the vanilla Accord being the standard bearer), slapping on a different nameplate like the GM of the past, and struggling with high-profile blunders (2000's V6 auto transmissions, 3G TL dashboard cracking, documented high rate Civic Hybrid battery failures resulting a class-action lawsuits), and completely falling off the hybrid/electric car bandwagon with their failed IMA hybrid approach.

I'm glad to see that Honda still has fans today, but I sincerely don't think I can recommend a Honda over a Toyota for a person who just wants rock-solid and refined transportation, but have zero appetite for trouble and hassle.

Honda over Subaru and Mazda, yes, but not Toyota.

More connected for a family sedan, but not significantly so when considered in the broad spectrum of the $30k to $50k market. Certainly not well-connected enough to be able to claim that the TLX is something that the ES is completely not.

Which is precisely why the target market of the TLX is completely different than the ES. While someone like myself wouldn't mind the stiff nature of the Acura, my wife would gravitate towards the Lexus without a second thought. If I throw kids into the mix, that pushes the pendulum even further towards the Lexus. Face it, you have to really like the particulars of the Acura to select it, while any non-car enthusiast (like most of the market) who wants high-quality transportation might very well prefer the Lexus.

You really don't want to give the TLX any chops do you. I am an enthusiast who likes a quality car with a good value proposition and that's why i drive Acura and have a TLX. I also appreciate the superior AWD system and prefer the looks. It's a very smooth and quite ride while handling very well…in fact a perfect balance. The Mitsubishi like grill on the Lexus is just…well…trying to hard to be young and aggressive. it will be dated real soon….IMHO.

I'm actually quite enjoying playing the devil's advocate and being the dissenting voice. I obviously had an opportunity to choose the Lexus myself, but guess what's in my signature :tongue:? I personally find that the Lexus begins to be really compelling over the Acura (4G) starting with the GS, but not anything below. We can debate ad nauseum until our faces are blue, but I find the TLX much more comparable to the IS, on the other hand.

The original poster sounds like a non-enthusiast who will really appreciate what Lexus has to offer.

Wouldn't that mean that you have to support Acura on this forum... LOL :tongue: :tomato: :wish:

Well put!

It's odd to see the ES350 being pushed as >TLX by anyone, especially by someone that has been vocally down on the TLX yet is a 4G owner... no, no trend there at all. :what:

To some degree you have a point here however one could make the point that the reason why Toyotas are so rock solid isn't due at all to engineering - it's due to the fact that they have a very solid and time tested powertrain (3.5L V6 with 6 Sp auto) that they continue to trot out year after year in many different models. The $45,000 R2015 350 has the same basic powertrain as your 2015 BOLD Camry. That's not a bad thing mind you - it's very safe and offers customers piece of mind - but it's not based on engineering excellence - it's based on trotting out time tested old technology over and over.