Test Drove a Challenger
 

Still have 11 months left on my lease but reached out to my local Dodge dealer to look at a 2019 Challenger scat pack Widebody. I have always thought this was a good looking car but once they applied the widebody look to the 392 I had to take a look. Not a practical replacement as a daily for me but definitely desirable and I was set on buying or leasing if the numbers worked out. After about an hours worth of determining trade in value and new car value we were close enough on numbers for me to take a test drive. You think the TLX vibrates? This thing vibrated at all speeds not just between 70 and 80 MPH. Yes it was faster, sounded great, and handled well but for whatever reason there was nothing smooth about the ride. The whole car shook at just about any speed and I'm not talking about engine rumble. I took it for a loop on the strip on interstate I travel often. The plan was to take the car for a test drive then go back and negotiate more on the price. Very quickly I determined this was not the car for me for any price. Could the 305 tires on the 20 X 11 rims be out of balance? That was my guess but there was no way I was buying a brand new car off the lot with that kind of vibration and hood shake. The salesman in the passenger seat understood my concern and didn't try to provide any solution so I thanked him for his time and departed.
This is the second new car I have test driven the last few months and been disappointed with. The other being a 2018 BMW 340i Xdrive with a manual. I have sat as a passenger in a 2.0 Genesis G70 and it was nice but I need to test drive a 3.3 twin turbo version of that car. Of course I like the Type S concept but I need to see it in production guise 1st.

Picture of the exact car I test drove.....


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Maybe try some of the other cars on the lot? I've driven a handful of Challenger and Chargers in R/T, Scatpack, and SRT guises, and I never noticed an issue with vibration.

If they get another Widebody in I may do that.

Totally different rides you're comparing. The TLX is more luxurious on the inside and the ride is set to that as well, with a hint of sporty. I also looked at the Challenger when my last Honda Accord V6 Coupe lease was up, and test drove an RT. It was nice for sure and yes it sounds great. It is a muscle car. The Scat pack with it's 485hp is even more of a muscle car and it will vibrate and be loud. The gas cost will be higher as well as the maintenance such as the need to replace tires. Don't tell me you won't spin the wheels sometimes driving one..lol Also insurance can be higher. When I went in late winter to discuss a lease deal the payments were out of sight. I don't know if they're the best to lease but they lose resale value very quickly. I went back to an Acura because of what you get for the money. I still do have thoughts on getting a Charger or Challenger one day. They are fun for sure.

The problem is that the TLX is not that more luxurious inside compared to a nice optioned Challenger.

I think the vibration issue is something specific to that car.....in general the Challenger 392 will not be as smooth as a luxury car.....

Nice! I think about doing something like that - but, I'm not actually considering trading in the TLX anytime soon, I would just want to test drive for fun. I wish I could test drive a Civic Type R, or a BMW M2 though an ANY American Muscle Car with a big V8 would be a ton of fun!

I wonder if I could do again, what I did so many years ago: I bought a 1981 Formula Firebird for only $150 because the engine had gotten packed with creosote after an engine fire, and friend of mine had a Firebird in his yard that his wife was on his ass about to get rid of it - he let me have the engine free and I swapped the engine, trans, installed new brake lines, etc.

Heh, I don't know if I would notice vibration either, or maybe I would and I would LIKE it - I would feel like a boy in a candy shop with that kind of power to play with again (it's been so long since I've had an unruly RWD V8 beast of a car to drive).

Save yourself some time next time. Always test drive first. You might like the looks but if the car doesn't ride well it's a write off.

Drive another one, those cars should be floating boats. Also bump up to the SRT, worth the extra coin. I had a Charger and a Challenger after a 4G TL - they were every bit as luxurious and better cabin tech than Acura

Interesting, i don't think i'd sit there for an hour discussing pricing without first driving it.

I agree...I would not define them "boats" in the classic meaning of the word but they do have a beautiful ride, even the powerful trims all the way to the Hellcat. The entry level V6 are creamy smooth.

The Scat Pack now is basically the SRT (you can get the six piston Brembo on them and adjustable suspension) the SRT 392 trim no longer exists.

Exactly and now you can get a leather wrapped dash and upper door panels on them.

overinflated tires?

Or not properly balanced......

Yes it is. Pictures don't do it justice. You can tell when you drive it a long way. The Challenger is shit on your back and ergonomics and the Acura is far better.

Have you ever actually drove a recent (MY 2015 and up) Challenger?? I rent Chargers and Challengers all the time and they have some of the most comfortable seats in the business (a very common opinion) especially on long trips, you have to pay thousands of dollars on some brand sport seats packages to get something as comfortable.

They are indeed more luxurious than a TLX, especially a nice optioned Challenger o Charger...the Laguna leather sport seats are phenomenal...also the ergonomics of the new Charger and Challenger are far better than the TLX.

I don't know if I would say they're more luxurious because there's still a fair bit of cheap plastic, but the uConnect infotainment system is about 100x better than the crap you find in Acuras, and the seats are indeed quite comfy. Couch-like is how I would describe it.

You're finding more luxurious options across all brands not just the luxury brands. The gap has closed a bit. Though some features that have trickled down to the standard brands may not be as good of quality. You're also paying for badge prestige for the luxury brands which is also getting to be less with the gap closing. Look at cost of some of these non luxury brand cars on their highest trim options and added packages. $50k for a Honda or a Toyota seemed a world away 10 years ago. It would be nice if manufacturers did less nickel and diming with package options. There are just too many options. Car buying already can be stressful enough. As for the Challenger/Charger interiors, they are not too bad but they too are due for a redesign just like Acura. The dash is a bit too bulky and bubble like in soots. There are definitely some cheap plastic materials for the buttons and center console. I've looked at them before I leased the TLX and I still think about the American muscle car. I find myself still checking the Charger out. I drive over 50 miles a day so a V8 is not very practical..lol I do find my TLX interior to be very nice. Android Auto does modernize it a bit. The car drives really smoothly too. I do like the seats in the tech package as well..

Thius.

The gap between mainstream and luxury has narrowed significantly and there is simply less space for the "almost luxury" brands like Acura especially if they are not at the top of their game like the TLX is.....a practical example, with the Kia Stinger around why buying a TLX?? It is an inferior car pretty much across the board and it has no brand status like the Germans or even Lexus have....

Cheap plastic on the TLX too...and now you can get leather wrapped (with contrast stitching) dashboard and upper door panels in the Charger and Challenger, something you cannot get in a TLX...


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The Laguna Leather seats you can get on the Challenger and Charger they are way better and more comfortable than anything Acura can offer...


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This was predicted as a major hurdle facing the car industry by Maximum Bob Lutz, pretty much the last of the real "Car Guy" auto executives about 8 years ago. Product differentiation among regular & premium cars becoming harder to maintain at the product level as more electronic & other options filter down to the lower priced lines.

He believed at the time it would eventually come down to brand status, reputation & build quality.

Or properly inflated but flat spots from sitting on the lot so long. Probably need to test drive it either longer or another one.

Exactly

It took decades for air conditioning to trickle down from luxury cars to mainstream, in less than 10 we had GPS navigation from Mercedes S Class to relatively ordinary cars, nowadays new technology spread to everyday vehicles in a flash.

I had a chance to ride shortly in a new Toyota Avalon....apart from absence of any sporty dynamics, that thing is as roomy and as comfortable as an S Class costing many times over....

The value proposition of "almost luxury" or "value luxury" typical of Acura it has less and less justification.

Didn't this car come out in 2008?

Both of you are right on. The gap between current TLX base and Accord Touring is razor thin, if it exists at all. All sorts of costly options and creature comforts have trickled down to standard equipment. Defrosters, power steering, windows and locks being the obvious options from the 80s now all standard. I’d be surprised if anyone even offers an econobox without these anymore. Then A/C, CD players and/or CD changers in the 90s. Then there was sort of a lull in major advances through 00s (except auto slushboxes basically replacing standard manuals) until technology ramped up. In the last decade, we’ve seen stuff like GPS, hard disc drive, HUD, adaptive cruise, lane keep assist, proximity sensors, seatbelt pretensioner, self parallel parking, blind spot warning, heated & cooled seats, etc trickling down from only the the highest end ‘01 MDX or 3.5RL down to practically standard ‘19 Civic equipment. The premium brands are literally running out of stuff to offer to stay above their base counterparts.

Yes but it had significant upgrades during the years (interiors, tech, fit and finish, transmission, power, etc...)

And KIA has brand status? LMAO, if you get a KIA you better hold on to it for a LONG time. They have no resale value at all. If your needs change or you are not happy with the car and need to get rid of it you are screwed. KIA is actually targeting smart luxury buyers but let's be honest very few that are in the market for an A5 Sportback which is a lot more $$$ will actually buy a KIA instead.

That is my point...the Kia has no status but on specs the Stinger can hang with the best in the segment for similar prices to the Acura TLX which is inferior pretty much across the board...today the real smart luxury buy is the Stinger and not the TLX IMHO.

Depreciation...I do not know about the Stinger but the Genesis initially depreciate more than the Germans but past the 4th year it comes out at the top because of the long warranty and the potentially very expensive repairs for a German luxury car...this according to Consumer Report where the Genesis actually scores higher than similar German models.

Yeah was a big surprise in car land Genesis, Kia & Hyundai did a 123 sweep of the quality surveys. Kia or hyundai are not going for status they just can't do it. Its like saying FORD is now a luxury car maker. The Hyundai Group is one of the biggest companies in the world & the car divisions 5th largest in the world are just a part of it. They are putting their backing on Genesis to become the luxury division.

FWIW I bought a Genesis coupe for my grandson, well at least till he graduated university & got a job. He pays for it now. Car is the optional 3.8L R-Spec sport version 348bhp, 6MT, brembos, 19" staggered sumer, leather, track pack suspension, LSD, camber plates etc. Full set of electronics, OTD was about $28,000. No issues since new. Looks & runs great. Would like his seats in some of mine. For whats in the car & if you are not big on a low dollar Mustang or Camaro its a very good value buy.

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Expect the car to be replaced by around 2022 by Genesis with a DOHC Twin Turbo or an EV & moved & well upscale to complement the rest of the product line.

Yeah but an SRT as shown is going to cost more than a TLX. It should have more options even though you're mostly buying those cars for the engine. The TLX Tech seats are rather comfortable. So many knock Acura on the Acura site. 🤔 Not saying you are knocking but if it go through the comments you find that.

You can get the leather wrapped dash, the upper door panels and the sport seats on a Charger and Challenger V6 too...nowadays you can pretty much get a Charger RT optioned to look like an Hellcat.

Not bashing Acura, I loved my 4G and the Type S prototype for the 6th gen (or 2nd gen TLX) looks extremely promising but the current TLX is simply a car that IMHO missed its target almost completely, 10 years too late....it simply does not offer anything better than a current good mainstream car and in many case is actually worse. There is simply no space left in the "almost luxury" segment.

The Genny coupe also has a sleek look to it versus the American "box" block look!

The Genesis coupe was a seriously undeappreciated nice RWD coupe....great car!!!

Seems like an apples v oranges discussion to me. However, perhaps the real meaning from this convo is that you'd be cross-shopping a TLX and a Challenger to begin with. I think that says a lot about how far Dodge has come and perhaps where Acura has slipped a bit. In other words, this discussion would never have been brought up in the 80s, 90s, or even the early 2000s.

Not necessarily in regards to how far Dodge may have come, and the reason being if someone is cross shopping both that means the TLX performance can't be that bad. Maybe they're looking at the V6 SXT Challenger. If they're looking at the RT or Scat, then that says something about the V6 TLX. It's definitely not a race car but also no slouch. If anything for muscle and performance one would look towards Dodge and not Acura. Maybe they want true muscle and are thinking there is enough luxury now in the Challenger and Chargers. I've looked at both myself when my last lease was up. Acura just leases better overall, however I'm not opposed to getting into a Charger V8 at some point while they still make them.

Exactly.

The cars are not directly comparable other than price (on lower and mid-spec Charger and Challenger) but these Dodge models value proposition is very hard to beat....they are very nice looking, reasonably well built, can be had full of tech and they are powerful.

Are these Challengers and Chargers FWD or RWD? I’m guessing they can come in AWD flavors too.

They are all RWD, double wishbone with dual pivot up front, five links rear suspension, ZF 8 speed transmission (the same used by BMW and many other luxury brands).
AWD is available only on V6 models unfortunately.

That by itself is worthy of true sport sedan status. By all means the TLX May be better in interior refinement and NVH levels, long term reliability etc, but if you want a true sports car feel and performance, a RWD sedan is hard to beat. These Dodge cars look really mean (and cool) though, especially the wide body or scat pack ones.

If you are going from TLX to a Challenger, the ride quality will be quite different...they are very different types of cars. What I would recommend you consider instead are cars in the same segment if you are looking to have a similar experience in ride experience/quality: So, consider perhaps the Audi A4/S4, Audi A5/S5, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, and possibly Volvo S60...

And sure, give the Kia Stinger a try. But, as comparable on paper as it may be, I'm too shallow to be in a Kia. :teef:

May want to try the Cadillac CT6 too. :ponder: