Probably going to get an Audi A4 instead of TLX
02-02-2018, 09:03 AM
#201
Audi's are very well put together. More often than not, with the newer A4's I have to look twice to see if they are actually an S4 because they come standard with a nice set of wheels and cutting edge design headlights and tails...
That said, the Aspec TLX drives extremely well and in it's own right...looks very cool.
Personally, I think we're still splitting hairs here...you like what you spend your money on and that's that. A brand being better at marketing to it's target audience and convincing THEM to go spend $40K+ to upgrade to that doesn't make it a win or loss, period.
You like what you bought...you won.
As long as the auto manufacturer convinced enough people to buy it to stay lucrative enough to stay in production...they probably consider it a win. Neither Honda nor Audi are going anywhere...even if one of their models gets the ax.
That said, the Aspec TLX drives extremely well and in it's own right...looks very cool.
Personally, I think we're still splitting hairs here...you like what you spend your money on and that's that. A brand being better at marketing to it's target audience and convincing THEM to go spend $40K+ to upgrade to that doesn't make it a win or loss, period.
You like what you bought...you won.
As long as the auto manufacturer convinced enough people to buy it to stay lucrative enough to stay in production...they probably consider it a win. Neither Honda nor Audi are going anywhere...even if one of their models gets the ax.
02-02-2018, 09:21 AM
#202
Team Owner
The TLX is on the downward slope of it's generational cycle, yet, it's able to maintain sales figures still, even after an MMC. An MMC is not intended to increase sales. They rarely, do. They're done to continue sales, and that's what the TLX was able to accomplish. It might not be selling as much as it potentially could, but, it's far from being a sales disaster.
02-02-2018, 10:35 AM
#204
Burning Brakes
02-02-2018, 12:23 PM
#206
Burning Brakes
The quattro version not only drives better, but has more power since they use different engines. I honestly do not miss my TLX's V6, plenty of power. A4's quattro has no torque vectoring in rear, but so far not a major problem. To use that in SHAWD, you have to floor it in corners which some people don't like to do.
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niray9 (02-02-2018)
02-02-2018, 12:24 PM
#207
best car I've ever driven was an S5 with the sport diff...manual, of course.
The 2.0t can be a potent little bitch though...
my close friend got the blue with red interior aspec...drove it around the block and it felt fuckin nice.
The 2.0t can be a potent little bitch though...
my close friend got the blue with red interior aspec...drove it around the block and it felt fuckin nice.
02-02-2018, 01:22 PM
#208
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niray9 (02-02-2018)
02-02-2018, 01:30 PM
#209
There are 2 guys on my 2 shoulders now. 
Shoulder 1: Practical guy - "I'll probably save @$12K-$14K if I buy a CPO A4(1 year old) 2 years from now when my TLX will be 5 years old vs buying a 2017 CPO A4 today" [ ROI on the $18K (inludes loss - due to sales tax) + better pricing on CPO when the A4 is no longer 1st or 2nd year + lower/year depreciation on the TLX after 5 years vs 3 years]
Shoulder 2: Life experience guy - "I want to drive a car that touches my heart NOWWW!!"
However - Too much Analysis can lead to paralysis
Frankly, I never had this dilemma when I was driving my noisier,plasticky, harsher riding 1st car, which brought a smile to my face every time I drove it.
Shoulder 1: Practical guy - "I'll probably save @$12K-$14K if I buy a CPO A4(1 year old) 2 years from now when my TLX will be 5 years old vs buying a 2017 CPO A4 today" [ ROI on the $18K (inludes loss - due to sales tax) + better pricing on CPO when the A4 is no longer 1st or 2nd year + lower/year depreciation on the TLX after 5 years vs 3 years]
Shoulder 2: Life experience guy - "I want to drive a car that touches my heart NOWWW!!"
However - Too much Analysis can lead to paralysis
Frankly, I never had this dilemma when I was driving my noisier,plasticky, harsher riding 1st car, which brought a smile to my face every time I drove it.
Last edited by niray9; 02-02-2018 at 01:38 PM.
02-02-2018, 02:10 PM
#211
Azine Jabroni
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02-02-2018, 02:36 PM
#213
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My bad, brain fart. Was trying to remember the generation when they shifted the engine back behind the centerline of the front wheels. This brought the balance down to a not bad 55/45 while the older systems with part of the engine infront of the wheel center line had a typical FWD weight bias of 62/38 which is similar to the TLX with SHAWD. This weigh shift all other things being equal, Quattro/SHAWD, is why the Audi will handle better
Slightly tail heavy is optimal for agility. Most BMW's in the 51/49-50/50 range. Mid engine cars, front mid engine & rear midengined, all have a rearward weight bias.
Slightly tail heavy is optimal for agility. Most BMW's in the 51/49-50/50 range. Mid engine cars, front mid engine & rear midengined, all have a rearward weight bias.
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niray9 (02-02-2018)
02-02-2018, 02:56 PM
#215
Azine Jabroni
I can't find a solid number but I think that's right. The thing to worry about with Audis is the overhang. The weight is very far forward. At least it's a longitudinal engine mount, though.
02-02-2018, 03:07 PM
#216
CTSV,TL, Audi Q7 & A5SB
I don;t know if I could agree with that to be fair....I mean, is Audi really a small player? As far as I know, Audi has been gaining market share in the luxury market for the past decade or so in the US. Its Q5 in particular is a strong seller. The Q7 does quite well too. It's also part of the 3rd largest car maker in the world....unlike Honda, Acura. Subaru, etc.
My understanding from some of the members here is that Audi doesn't have the same aggressive lease deals like BMW.
Not sure if there's much point of comparing the TLX...when it's one of the oldest cars in the segment and it wasn't exactly groundbreaking when new....based on the new RDX, I think the 2nd gen TLX would be more interesting.
My understanding from some of the members here is that Audi doesn't have the same aggressive lease deals like BMW.
Not sure if there's much point of comparing the TLX...when it's one of the oldest cars in the segment and it wasn't exactly groundbreaking when new....based on the new RDX, I think the 2nd gen TLX would be more interesting.
But there are a couple of other factors also. BMW has free scheduled maintenance for 3/36K and although BMW has cut back on what they cover on 2016 or 2017+ models they take care of the basic's free of charge. Audi doesn't offer any type of free maintenance, only prepaid maintenance is offered..
Another factor are insurance costs, when I rec'd a quote the Q7 was more to insure than a comparably priced X5, F-Pace and ML. It was explained to me that since Audi uses a lot of aluminum they are more expensive to repair..
I love the Q7 and wouldn't change a thing, but these factors definitely play into a persons decision making process..
Last edited by JT4; 02-02-2018 at 03:10 PM.
02-02-2018, 03:33 PM
#217
Senior Moderator
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One of the reasons why I'm not driving an A4 right now (Quattro & 6MT) is because of their horrible lease deals (Acura was the same way with the TLX MMC ASPEC SHAWD) at the time I was in the market.
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rockstar143 (02-02-2018)
02-02-2018, 03:48 PM
#218
02-02-2018, 03:56 PM
#219
Banned
2017 Audi A4 First Drive Review - Motor Trend
Now, on a test track or racetrack, the 2017 A4 (chassis code: B9) may very well slip into unpleasant, unfortunate understeer.
02-02-2018, 04:46 PM
#220
Azine Jabroni
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02-02-2018, 04:52 PM
#222
Azine Jabroni
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niray9 (02-02-2018)
02-02-2018, 04:56 PM
#223
Team Owner
For the record , the sport diff is offered only in a $2500 package on the S4/S5, not available on the A4 and same concept standard on the TLX AWD. If someone wants absolutely an AWD, this is a very desirable feature - unless you love A4's understeer when ultimately pushed.
2017 Audi A4 First Drive Review - Motor Trend
2017 Audi A4 First Drive Review - Motor Trend
And yeah, as always, German cars are more expensive than Japanese cars. Not sure what point you're trying to make, besides beating the "Acura's are better value" horse to death. No one argued that here. No one cares about value if they're looking at an A4, either. If they did, they'd be in a TLX and complaining about the shit transmission, even in Sport+ mode, with reduced fuel economy.
Last edited by TacoBello; 02-02-2018 at 04:59 PM.
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BEAR-AvHistory (02-03-2018)
02-02-2018, 05:22 PM
#225
Team Owner
Right, so why am I still understeering with a limited slip differential in my car? Oh wait, because it's no cure for understeer.
Face it- the front wheels will eventually slip when cornering, if pushing hard enough. And if they're slipping, they're not putting any traction down, and plowing straight for the wall. As I said- a sport differential will push the limit at which understeer occurs. But it doesn't fix it. The only way to fix it is by driving the rear wheels. There literally is no two ways about it.
Face it- the front wheels will eventually slip when cornering, if pushing hard enough. And if they're slipping, they're not putting any traction down, and plowing straight for the wall. As I said- a sport differential will push the limit at which understeer occurs. But it doesn't fix it. The only way to fix it is by driving the rear wheels. There literally is no two ways about it.
02-02-2018, 05:26 PM
#226
Banned
Right, so why am I still understeering with a limited slip differential in my car?
Last edited by Saintor; 02-02-2018 at 05:32 PM.
02-02-2018, 05:36 PM
#227
Azine Jabroni
Right, so why am I still understeering with a limited slip differential in my car? Oh wait, because it's no cure for understeer.
Face it- the front wheels will eventually slip when cornering, if pushing hard enough. And if they're slipping, they're not putting any traction down, and plowing straight for the wall. As I said- a sport differential will push the limit at which understeer occurs. But it doesn't fix it. The only way to fix it is by driving the rear wheels. There literally is no two ways about it.
Face it- the front wheels will eventually slip when cornering, if pushing hard enough. And if they're slipping, they're not putting any traction down, and plowing straight for the wall. As I said- a sport differential will push the limit at which understeer occurs. But it doesn't fix it. The only way to fix it is by driving the rear wheels. There literally is no two ways about it.
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BEAR-AvHistory (02-03-2018)
02-02-2018, 05:49 PM
#229
Azine Jabroni
02-02-2018, 05:53 PM
#230
There are four lights!
I don't have to floor it in my TLX. I think it's only true in the first generation unit. I can feel the torque vectoring and see it via the MID with gentle throttle around the bendys.
02-02-2018, 09:36 PM
#231
Burning Brakes
Maybe flooring was exaggerating but you need to be accelerating through a corner, where most people naturally slow down. Had to slightly change my driving habit with the A4 for the winter since it doesn't feel the same lol
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ZipSpeed (02-02-2018)
02-02-2018, 10:17 PM
#232
Well, the sport diff is layman's terms for torque vectoring flux capacitor or something.
In reality, the Audi and Acura system works relatively similarly...but Audi has been fuckin with Quattro since 1980 so they're gonna be pretty good at it!
I don't know for sure for myself...I live in Florida where a sport differential is probably a waste anyway...BUT, I was told if you ever go S4 or S5 that that is an option to look for.
Used market, if that wasn't clear...I'm not bout that automatic transmission life anyway.
In reality, the Audi and Acura system works relatively similarly...but Audi has been fuckin with Quattro since 1980 so they're gonna be pretty good at it!
I don't know for sure for myself...I live in Florida where a sport differential is probably a waste anyway...BUT, I was told if you ever go S4 or S5 that that is an option to look for.
Used market, if that wasn't clear...I'm not bout that automatic transmission life anyway.
02-03-2018, 01:24 AM
#234
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Right, so why am I still understeering with a limited slip differential in my car? Oh wait, because it's no cure for understeer.
Face it- the front wheels will eventually slip when cornering, if pushing hard enough. And if they're slipping, they're not putting any traction down, and plowing straight for the wall. As I said- a sport differential will push the limit at which understeer occurs. But it doesn't fix it. The only way to fix it is by driving the rear wheels. There literally is no two ways about it.
Face it- the front wheels will eventually slip when cornering, if pushing hard enough. And if they're slipping, they're not putting any traction down, and plowing straight for the wall. As I said- a sport differential will push the limit at which understeer occurs. But it doesn't fix it. The only way to fix it is by driving the rear wheels. There literally is no two ways about it.
02-03-2018, 02:15 AM
#235
Team Owner
Ok, well that's a modified car on a race track. Ain't no one gonna sell you a car like that, right from the factory. I'm guessing he had a really beefed up rear sway bar? The car is still prone to want to understeer. You can fuck with the suspension to make it oversteer, but, that's not for everyone. Your average driver would kill themselves.
I put my rear sway bar on my TL to the stiffest setting and it shows signs of wanting to oversteer when going into a corner, hammering the throttle and then lifting off the gas. But I did that purposely in that car. I love how it feels but it's something I have to be extra cautious with in the winter. Not that it loses control that easily, but, it can send the car out of control if you're not used to it, or don't expect it. Let's be honest- your average stock fwd vehicle isn't doing that. If I stay on the throttle through a corner and I'm hauling some serious ass, it will still understeer. Front wheels lose traction, and they just end up going straight.
I put my rear sway bar on my TL to the stiffest setting and it shows signs of wanting to oversteer when going into a corner, hammering the throttle and then lifting off the gas. But I did that purposely in that car. I love how it feels but it's something I have to be extra cautious with in the winter. Not that it loses control that easily, but, it can send the car out of control if you're not used to it, or don't expect it. Let's be honest- your average stock fwd vehicle isn't doing that. If I stay on the throttle through a corner and I'm hauling some serious ass, it will still understeer. Front wheels lose traction, and they just end up going straight.
02-03-2018, 02:22 AM
#236
Team Owner
02-03-2018, 11:37 AM
#238
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Ok, well that's a modified car on a race track. Ain't no one gonna sell you a car like that, right from the factory. I'm guessing he had a really beefed up rear sway bar? The car is still prone to want to understeer. You can fuck with the suspension to make it oversteer, but, that's not for everyone. Your average driver would kill themselves.
Yery, yery big important point. Even civilian cars with perfect 50/50 balance (BMW) have understeer forced into the handling package by the manufactures to keep the customers on the road & from killing themselves. For a typical unskilled driver its was easier to correct an understeering car than an oversteering car especially a FWD or nose heavy one. Get off the gas, brake & unload the steering wheel all natural instinctive things you will do are correct for getting out of an understeering condition.
Some cars with track packages even include replacement camber plates &/or bolts to restore the normal steering geometry that the factory dials out of the cars.
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TacoBello (02-04-2018)
02-04-2018, 11:17 AM
#239
Azine Jabroni
Yery, yery big important point. Even civilian cars with perfect 50/50 balance (BMW) have understeer forced into the handling package by the manufactures to keep the customers on the road & from killing themselves. For a typical unskilled driver its was easier to correct an understeering car than an oversteering car especially a FWD or nose heavy one. Get off the gas, brake & unload the steering wheel all natural instinctive things you will do are correct for getting out of an understeering condition.
Some cars with track packages even include replacement camber plates &/or bolts to restore the normal steering geometry that the factory dials out of the cars.
Some cars with track packages even include replacement camber plates &/or bolts to restore the normal steering geometry that the factory dials out of the cars.
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02-04-2018, 11:24 AM
#240
Banned
https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...e-test-feature