SallyJones

Lexus IS 250
Price: Around 44,000 MSRP F Sport+Navi
I heard about how hot the IS lineup have been selling and made the Lexus Dealership my first stop. This car got a very eye catching design and I really liked it. The new Lexus designs is no longer about conservative soft luxury but now is about a more in your face type of style. It's not for everyone but I definitely appreciate the new direction. Interior of this car was beautiful, all the parts above the steering wheel is covered with leather(something unique that I haven't seen before in BMW/Mercedes cars. In the German cars, that area above the steering wheel is usually plastic). Loved the way Lexus milked their halo LFA car into their IS lineups. I saw a lot of LFA inspired gauges and designs in the IS. The test drives I took in this car was pretty much as expected. Enough power for a daily driver, very good handling and it felt like a driver's car. The sports mode was fun to tinker with but got annoying with the noise. That is the biggest downfall of the IS 250 and 350. The incredible amount of noise from that V6 engine is more suited to a Mustang than a Luxury Sports Sedan. The turns were very easy though and I barely felt the bumps on the roads. Smooth and refined with some sport thrown in. My issue with this car? The price. Even a Base IS 250 Non F Sport will cost you 38,100 MSRP. After taxes and fees, you are looking at paying over 40 Grand for a Base IS 250. People are buying this car due to the Brand,the good reviews, and the unique styling. The price rise of the Lexus Cars is something that I have noticed and the Brand is edging ever closer to the Germans in terms of expenses. For those of you with a 50,000 budget? I will recommand the much better IS 350 F Sport over the 335I.But if you are looking at the 40,000-45,000 range? The IS 250 is probably a bit too expensive for what it offers.



Audi A4 2.0T with Navi: MSRP 39,000
I was pleasantly surprised at just how nice the Audi interior was compared to it's German counterparts. The interior really felt like it was an A6 caliber car as oppose to an A4 caliber.Drove the car for half an hour and it was about as refined as they come. The things I don't like about it is that I really didn't feel the 'sportiness' Audi tried to market with this car. It feels like a smooth luxury sedan that gives you great comfort during a long drive. The turns were fine but lacked the crisp nature of a BMW and I actually didn't like the acceleration feel. A bit too rigid for me when I'm hard pressing the gas pedal. The biggest positive I have to give here is the price. Is the A6 over priced? Yes. Is the A8 over priced? Yes. Is the Audi performance models over priced? Yes. But not the A4. Audi really priced their bread and butter sedan right. For around 39,000 MSRP you can get a pretty decent Audi A4 with full Navi package.(Under cutting their Lexus Navi counter part by a few thousand bucks). Of course if you are looking to lease instead of buy? Than Audi will probably be the worst deal out of the bunch. Audi leases have not yet caught up with BMW/Mercedes/Lexus and their 'best offers' will probably be a Mid Level BMW offer. If you are looking to buy into the A4 Lineup though? It's a great value.



BMW 328 I Sport Line/Navigation System w/Touchpad: Around 45,000 MSRP
The 'King' and undisputed #1 sales giant of this segment. The BMW 328I. As a Mercedes C Class driver, I always had a 'Anti 3 Series' mindset, but I tried my best to be neutral when I test drove the car. The verdict? Better than I expected, but not by much. My parents drive a Lexus LS 460 and a Mercedes C 250. I myself drive a Mercedes C 250, so I'm used to 'interior luxury'. I want to feel like I'm in a comfortable setting when I'm driving. The 3 Series didn't deliver this. Everything felt plastic and watered down. I never once got the feeling that I was sitting in a 45,000 dollar+ car. So how do BMW make up for this? Brand prestige and driver's mentality. I admit it. The 3 Series is a better driver's car than my 2010 Mercedes C 250. No comparison. The 328 give a bigger boost zooming onto the free way, it felt more natural during turns, and the entire ride felt like BMW somehow managed to build an actual sports sedan when every other Luxury Brand just managed to build a Luxury sedan with dashes of sport. Price too high? Forget that stereotype. The car I was interested in is around 45,000 MSRP. But I seen brand new 328 I'S with Navi......at around 42,000. A base one can be found for around 37,000. There really is a price range for everyone(everyone as in people willing to spend 35,000+ on a car.) I liked the 3 Series a lot more than I thought I would.




CADILLAC ATS SEDAN 2.0L I4: Around 40,000 MSRP
This is a wonderful car. I loved the exterior design. It gives off a perfect blend of sports and comfortability . The drive itself was perfect. Good power, great handling, and it felt natural from the get go. Never once did I feel out of place in this sedan and everything just clicked as I was driving this through turns and swerves. The downfall of this sedan is the interior. Cadillac tried their best but still came up short when it comes to making a luxury interior. The screen felt cheap and too small.The steering wheel felt like it came from a lower tier of materials as compared to the Lexus/Audi cars and the overall design just didn't vibe with me. That being said, 40,000 MSRP for a car such as this? It's worth it. There is also a much more affordable lower tier model that basically looks the same(outside and inside) which you can get for closer to 30,000.



I didn't bother with the new Mercedes C 300. It is better than every single one of these above cars. But it also starts at 47,000 MSRP. I don't even consider it in the same 'segment' as the rest of these sedans anymore. Not when a Navi C 300 will cause you 51,000 MSRP. The new C300 is now competing with the Lexus GS and the Audi A6 in my opinion. It have definitely moved up.



Acura TLX I4:Around (31,000-35,000) MSRP
I decided to try out the new TLX. I didn't go with the V6 but with the lower priced I4. Always curious about a car that have gathered so many positive reviews, I was not let down at all. The interior of this TLX I4 can go toe to toe against the much more expensive Lexus and Germans without flinching. Very comfortable seating and dazzling technology. Comparing it to the similar priced CLA is no comparison at all.The TLX make the CLA look like a empty husk of a toy car and that's coming from a Mercedes driver. The ride itself pleased me as well.Easy to handle and was quick when I wanted it to be. No Jerky feelings or lack of control. Everything's just in place and it felt like I can drive this car for 5 hours without tiring. A relaxing yet engaging ride that rarely went off course or gave me a sense of boredom.

Acura finally build a worthy successor to the 3G. Is it enough to take away from the customer base Lexus,BMW, and Mercedes took over 20 years to gather? Yes it enough to steal away from the customer base that is flocking to the new hotshot in town(Audi). Is it enough to steal away from the customer base of Cadillac and Infiniti?
Audi for all it's dash and it's brilliance is still a relatively new upstart in the American market. Cadillac is already showing flaws in the foundation they started building only a few years back. Infiniti is lost right now. I say the iron is hot for Acura to take from those above 3 brands. As for the three headed monster of luxury sales? Maybe one day. But the TLX is definitely a great start in the right direction.

jjsC5

I don't get your comments about pricing. The ATS is worth $40,000, but everything else is overpriced? Can't agree with your pricing comments. And your comment about Audi being a relatively new upstart??? How of are you? I have been looking at Audis in America as worthy competitors for 40 years.

wlkeel

Actually, I think the only car she said seemed to be overpriced was the Lexus IS.

She probably thought the ATS was worth the price because she drove one. What a wonderful driving car!

Glashub

Well, to be fair -- Audi got lost with the sudden acceleration fiasco and only recently has emerged into the consciousness of the mass market which is mostly focused on Mb, BMW, and maybe Lexus. Here in LA I don't see that many Audi's compared to the number of MB's, Lexus, and BMW's. But Audi is gaining brand traction and maybe she meant "upstart" in that way.


Also, I think she feels the IS250 is over priced and most on the Lexus forums agree. The 6 cyl. is a bit of a dog and the car isn't luxury enough to make up for the 204hp engine -- so you're left with a 40K car that gets smoked by other cars but isn't luxurious enough to compete with others. She is spot on -- the IS350 is the only way to go.

g37guy01

Except that Lexus sells it's fair share of IS 250s. The IS250s are not marketed toward the posters on an enthusiast board such as this.


If you really want to see what the pulse of America thinks about cars, vs one individual opinion, sales metrics are the way to go.

Stew4HD

On that note, I'd say not one manufacturer bases it's marketing towards the 100 or posters on many board.

Glashub

g37guy01 I agree. The 250 is a huge hit. I never see the 350. People think 7.7 seconds to 60 and 204hp is quite enough. But as the owner of an IS and a person who drove the 250 extensively -- I can tell you she is spot on -- the IS is a car that should be a 350. I know a woman who bought an IS250 Fsport -- she took a loss so she could upgrade to a 350. She raves as to how it feels like a whole different car. Go figure. Somehow Lexus is a gotta' have brand in LA right there with the Germans. I enjoy my IS but not for a moment do I think it's a good value. The TLX by any sound measure should chip into IS sales BUT don't ever over estimate the wisdom of the masses.

Nedmundo

You're right on about the sudden acceleration issue, and Audi didn't start recovering until the first generation A4 was a huge hit in the mid-1990's. Audi never disappeared from the radar in the Northeast due to quattro's all-weather excellence, but its penetration into the mass luxury market is relatively recent.

As for the IS250, even Consumer Reports finds it an underpowered, poor excuse for a driver's car, so I suspect the OP's description is right on the money.

For handling prowess, I'm very curious how the TLX compares to 3 Series models without the sport suspension (especially the x-Drive models), which are really soft and nowhere close to fulfilling the "Ultimate Driving Machine" slogan. In the past, Acuras have sometimes landed somewhere between base and sport 3 Series models for suspension tuning and agility, and I wouldn't be surprised if the trend has continued with the TLX.

Indeed, after testing an I4 TLX last week, I think the suspension tuning and chassis dynamics are among its greatest strengths, to such an extent that I think it could steal some sales from the 3 Series. It won't grab any hard core enthusiasts looking at RWD Sport and M-Sport 3 Series models, especially those who want MT, but could attract many others.

Glashub

From Truth About Cars


"So the German automaker took it on the chin. Audi sales collapsed, from 74k units in 1984 to 12k by 1991. The timing added insult to injury; sales fell during the same years when Lexus arrived to battle for the hearts and wallets of America’s up-scale consumers. The Japanese autos quickly became the new suburban driveway prestige weapon."


In Defense of: The Audi 5000 | The Truth About Cars

Rocketsfan

I remember reading a couple of years ago someone at Audi admitting they needed to improve their reliability/quality. I think they may have, who knows.

As for the IS 250, I'm no weekend racer or performance enthusiast like many on here, but even I've been saying it's been nuts to pay that much for that anemic engine. It's also why I've said that if Acura could build a good looking car in the segment, they would sell like crazy. Most people buying in this segment aren't looking for "luxury" or "high end performance". They're basically looking for good looks, with some luxury, and some kind of prestige that separates them from a Kia. Throw in some rock-solid reliability and you'd have a winner. Acura lately had been missing on the design part. I think they got everything else. Lexus' IS 250 has always sold insanely well. Most people aren't racing or doing stoplight 0-60's, etc. so that's enough for them, I guess. And I have no problem with that, but to pay $40k for that engine to me is nuts. This is why I'm curious to see how an I4 TLX will sell ... much cheaper, but not as much of a "cool" factor.

BEAR-AvHistory

Nothing is overpriced that sells well.

Quandry

^ Right out of the textbook of Apple marketing.

dysonlu

That's exactly how I interpreted it too and you are absolutely right about Audi.

Ahah, very well put.

dysonlu

At one point in history, tulip was selling very well...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania

Nedmundo

Lexus certainly did some damage to Audi and others, but of course we know Acura accomplished some of this five years earlier. It's no coincidence that Saab's highest U.S. sales were in 1986 -- just as Acura arrived on the scene to provide great handling, all-weather capability, and some luxury at a lower price with Honda reliability. The first gen Integra even offered a hatch, and was much like the Saab 900 16v. Saab just couldn't compete. I suspect Acura hurt Audi as well, especially in the Northeast and Northern Midwest, because the other Japanese premium marques were almost entirely RWD.

BEAR-AvHistory

Not sure what your point is but Eco 101 says "if sales fall improve the product or cut the price".

So far so good on holding onto selling an "overpriced" car. As the market demand slacks off the price will come down.

The RLX is a good example of cut the price if the market perceives it as overpriced. Sales have fallen consistently for the last 6 months or so, down to very low 200's & some very good deals can be made on the car. Improve the product will be the addition of the electric motors. That people will agree $60K+ is not overpriced for the car is a TBD.

The opening price list for the TLX also says the same thing. The 4G could, styling aside, could not sell at the prices being asked so the TLX has come in at a lower base with more attractive pricing across the product line.

For people who get all bent out of shape over the price of some Euro & Asian upmarket cars I am sure that a number of Accord & Civic buyers thing the ILX & TLX are "overpriced".

jjsC5

She sort of said it about the 3 series but then confused the issue by saying they build the 3 at many price points, then said it about A6 and A8s. I personally think the A4 is an overpriced Passat unless you get the S4. I think the A6 is actually a great value compared to its competition, and I own two of its direct competitors.

SallyJones

I tried my best with the reviews. This is just my opinions. My initial thoughts upon driving those. My opinions regarding these cars are worth nothing outside of mild entertainment. Thanks everyone for reading! I want to clarify what I said about the IS 250 F SPORT. When I said it's 'over priced' I mean that if you are getting a Fully Loaded IS 250 F SPORT.....it's around 44,000 MSRP. You can get a IS 350 for 47,000ish MSRP. So in that case a fully loaded IS 250 IS over priced since it's only 3000 or so less than a 350.

Rocket_man

I think when they put the new 2.0L turbo in the base IS it will greatly improve the car. But something tells me they will increase the price at the same time. If I were looking for an IS I'd wait for the 2.0L version next year.

But they only sell because they are heavily discounted. Between 6 and 7K according to True Car. So yes they do sell and like always the market finds the right price for a car. So based on the actual market price for the car it does not seem to be over priced. I drove that car though and it just didn't appeal to me.

internalaudit

People get trapped in the operating system ecosystem, not so much with cars.

jjsC5

First of all, this is all debate, nobody is right or wrong when sharing opinions.

There are many people who are not driven (no pun intended) by horsepower. For them, the $3000 different and better gas mileage is important. But look at this another way. What if they charged a $6,000 difference for just the engine, wouldn't you then think the 350 is overpriced for charging such a big premium for nothing more that a bigger engine?

ceb

he Kawasaki and the Ducati???