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All I can add to the above is a concern about the glass roof in Texas summer heat, and some question about the big ugly 15" screen in the middle of the dash.
I'd imagine you'd have to limo tint the entire roof to keep from either frying or getting skin cancer on your noggin (or MORE skin cancer in my case). And the lack of instrumentation in front of me would take some getting used to. Yeah, I know people with Mini's mange to survive, but I don't like central gauge displays.
The worst part, though, is the range. Looking at the supercharger location map, I wouldn't even get started on the trip I'm taking next week ... leave out of the Dallas/Ft. Worth area heading west and you're on the side of the road after 200 miles.
I'm headed to Phoenix, and the first charging station is in Casa Grande, AZ ... 1001.4 miles from me. I'd say that's a problem.
All I can add to the above is a concern about the glass roof in Texas summer heat, and some question about the big ugly 15" screen in the middle of the dash.
I'd imagine you'd have to limo tint the entire roof to keep from either frying or getting skin cancer on your noggin (or MORE skin cancer in my case). And the lack of instrumentation in front of me would take some getting used to. Yeah, I know people with Mini's mange to survive, but I don't like central gauge displays.
The worst part, though, is the range. Looking at the supercharger location map, I wouldn't even get started on the trip I'm taking next week ... leave out of the Dallas/Ft. Worth area heading west and you're on the side of the road after 200 miles.
I'm headed to Phoenix, and the first charging station is in Casa Grande, AZ ... 1001.4 miles from me. I'd say that's a problem.
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And Tesla's in a bit of a pickle. They are promised "billions" in backlog by their preorders, and they need to leverage that to build more power stations. If they don't, expect a ton of cancellations. I seriously wonder how many of these 250,000 orders become Tesla owners.
More importantly, i wonder how Tesla's service infrastructure can handle the car's horrible reliability.
Its usage & how the miles per charge is calculated for the company adds vs real life numbrs. Think the poster who said city use has it right about its best place to perform.
Rumor has it lots of Taxi fleets are looking at it.
Its hard to define "Normal Use" What was normal for me when I lived in Jersey & worked on Wall Street is not what my normal useage is now living in Raleigh. So normal use is personal to each one of us depending on rela life use pattern.
On the highway IIRC the best Tesla numbers are below the general flow of interstate traffic at least here. The more load (speed, Hills, A/C Heat) you put on the battery the faster it will deplete.
The T3 is smaller than the existing model but so will be the battery. Very little info is actually in the publics hands about the new T3 to make any real judgement about the car.
For range Goggle "Tesla real life range" It will drop out Tesla customer message boards which have pretty good info on the current crs range & what effects it.
Thanks for the good points. I appreciate the good response. I hope to someday be wealthy enough to be able to buy a tesla and have it as a third car just for the heck of it.
I've found the best forums to learn about car tint are the Tesla forums. All that glass and running A/C off the battery drives owners to get the best tint. Here in Houston good tint is a matter of survival. Having a huge glass sunroof is nothing I want. On my wife's Mini we got it without a sunroof and it is great. More headroom and less heat in the car. Don't miss the sunroof for a second.
Mini moved away from the central dash to one in front of the driver. They still have a center display but now it is the infotainment system. Maybe the Model 3 has a HUD for common driver info????
Researching Model S actual range numbers... and they vary by driving style and temperature of course.... about 135 to 140 actual driven miles for a 240mi range car. Good for most daily commuting circumstances, but not a good car for moderate distances. Personally I like to get in my car and go. I never have to worry about where a charging station is. There is always a place to buy gas and be fully fueled in 10 minutes. But for work commuting, a Tesla would be fine for me.
I've found the best forums to learn about car tint are the Tesla forums. All that glass and running A/C off the battery drives owners to get the best tint. Here in Houston good tint is a matter of survival. Having a huge glass sunroof is nothing I want. On my wife's Mini we got it without a sunroof and it is great. More headroom and less heat in the car. Don't miss the sunroof for a second.
Mini moved away from the central dash to one in front of the driver. They still have a center display but now it is the infotainment system. Maybe the Model 3 has a HUD for common driver info????
Researching Model S actual range numbers... and they vary by driving style and temperature of course.... about 135 to 140 actual driven miles for a 240mi range car. Good for most daily commuting circumstances, but not a good car for moderate distances. Personally I like to get in my car and go. I never have to worry about where a charging station is. There is always a place to buy gas and be fully fueled in 10 minutes. But for work commuting, a Tesla would be fine for me.
The 1000lb gorilla that all EV's are looking at fighting to become general use cars.
All I can add to the above is a concern about the glass roof in Texas summer heat, and some question about the big ugly 15" screen in the middle of the dash.
I'd imagine you'd have to limo tint the entire roof to keep from either frying or getting skin cancer on your noggin (or MORE skin cancer in my case). And the lack of instrumentation in front of me would take some getting used to. Yeah, I know people with Mini's mange to survive, but I don't like central gauge displays.
The worst part, though, is the range. Looking at the supercharger location map, I wouldn't even get started on the trip I'm taking next week ... leave out of the Dallas/Ft. Worth area heading west and you're on the side of the road after 200 miles.
I'm headed to Phoenix, and the first charging station is in Casa Grande, AZ ... 1001.4 miles from me. I'd say that's a problem.
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Look at Canada. Holy fuck.
That's one reason I won't even begin to consider Tesla. Sometimes you have to drive up to 300 km between GAS STATIONS, especially west of Ontario, nevermind finding a supercharger station.
That's one reason I won't even begin to consider Tesla. Sometimes you have to drive up to 300 km between GAS STATIONS, especially west of Ontario, nevermind finding a supercharger station.
Only way to drive to either central Canada or its West Coast from Ontario is to drive deep into the US.
Was debating a guy from Toronto on the Tesla range & mentioned that fact. He said he had no interest in driving west & bailed on the thread.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 04-03-2016 at 08:29 PM.
They hate it out here, in general, or forget we exist.
And yeah, with that range, even a Saskatoon to Edmonton drive is not going to be possible (it's about 5 hours at highway speeds through a pretty sparse area).
They hate it out here, in general, or forget we exist.
And yeah, with that range, even a Saskatoon to Edmonton drive is not going to be possible (it's about 5 hours at highway speeds through a pretty sparse area).
I quoted that one too. They need a lot more stations in Canada.
Even here in NC it would be hard to move around due to lack of stations in range of others & we have 10,000,000 people here. That is almost a third of Canada's entire population.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 04-04-2016 at 12:17 AM.
If Tesla could have another major auto brand in tow using the same charging technology, I believe they significantly increase their chances at success.
If you look at their charger station density looks like the think their major markets are East Coast of New York up through Central New England (NYC/Boston corridor), Florida & California.
I quoted that one too. They need a lot more stations in Canada.
Even here in NC it would be hard to move around due to lack of stations in range of others & we have 10,000,000 people here. That is almost a third of Canada's entire population.
I think we're fucked for the foreseeable future on charging stations (unless one lives in Vancouver or Toronto).
Looks like there's a charging station in Banff of all places?! In fact, it kind of looks like the charging station route was designed for west coasters (Vancouver, Seattle, and especially Silicon Valley denizens) to get to Banff for vacation!
I think we're fucked for the foreseeable future on charging stations (unless one lives in Vancouver or Toronto).
Looks like there's a charging station in Banff of all places?! In fact, it kind of looks like the charging station route was designed for west coasters (Vancouver, Seattle, and especially Silicon Valley denizens) to get to Banff for vacation!
If all the Model 3s get sold in a timely manner, we're all screwed.
I think we're fucked for the foreseeable future on charging stations (unless one lives in Vancouver or Toronto).
Looks like there's a charging station in Banff of all places?! In fact, it kind of looks like the charging station route was designed for west coasters (Vancouver, Seattle, and especially Silicon Valley denizens) to get to Banff for vacation!
If you saw all the Tesla's in California you would understand why there are so many chargers on the west coast and even Banff. There are not as many Teslas in Montana or North Dakota and that might explain the reason for no super chargers there. Tesla needs to build the chargers where the cars are and perhaps there aren't that many cars in Canada yet? Tesla will eventually get out there too- it takes time building a network of super chargers and there are still gaps even now.
If you saw all the Tesla's in California you would understand why there are so many chargers on the west coast and even Banff. There are not as many Teslas in Montana or North Dakota and that might explain the reason for no super chargers there. Tesla needs to build the chargers where the cars are and perhaps there aren't that many cars in Canada yet? Tesla will eventually get out there too- it takes time building a network of super chargers and there are still gaps even now.
I was on a business trip last year in LA. Used to live there. But I stayed at a hotel that had a super charger station in the parking lot. The place was right off a highway exit and the hotel offered Tesla owners some amenities while their cars charged. There was always a Model S charging at any given time. Often several. Mostly young males... looked like sales guys... on their phones while charging. At least they weren't on the phone while driving. But hey.. free battery charging, can't complain. I wonder if Model 3 owners get this same treatment?
^ With 300k model 3 cars on the road in the next 5 years, I really doubt the M3 drivers will have all the perks of the ModelS owners.
My guess is Tesla will go with a pay as you go model for M3's where you can use the supercharger but you'll need to pay per use. If charging was free there would be long waits at the super chargers. Tesla has almost 3x the cars under reservation than what they have been able to produce and that ignores the future ModelS sales between now and M3 rollout. The pay per use model would also factor in future price hikes so Tesla can continue to invest in super charger infrastructure going forward.
Tesla sells an adapter kit which allows you to charge a Tesla with many of the standard charger types; however, it has a proprietary plug format so you must use an adapter to charge you Tesla with non-tesla chargers. I have a J1772 plug for my home charger for our Leaf and Tesla has an adapter for it. The Tesla super chargers are proprietary so I can't use a super charger to charge my Leaf.
I placed my reservation before the official unveiling. I plan on getting the dual motor AWD version with basic battery or the larger battery if it's not more than a few grand. Personally I drive on average 20-25 miles per day and for longer trips I can swap cars with my wife, so I have no range anxiety. My 3G TL will hold me over for the next two years while I'm saving for the down payment on Model 3, then it's most likely bye-bye Acura for at least a while, or until it has a more compelling car in the lineup.
Placed my reservation right after the unveiling. Will most likely opt for the bigger battery and dual motor, maybe an insane mode... Long trips should not be an issue since we got the mdx.
Ouch... personally I think they could have built their factory anywhere but where they did. Hard to sustain a car factory in the most expensive part of the country to live in. If these production cost are similar for the Model 3, it almost looks impossible to sell one for a profit. I don't see what production cost savings they realize just because the Model 3 is a little smaller than the Model S. They are actually simple cars to build compared to an internal combustion car.
The $12.6 billion in pre-orders for the Tesla Model 3 on Mar. 31 demonstrates that Tesla Motors Inc. can produce incredible hype. But a day later, the company filed disclosure with the SEC admitting that it missed first quarter vehicle deliveries by almost 10 percent.
Breitbart News revealed Tuesday revealed that Tesla was in a working capital crisis in the first quarter of 2016, and likely used pre-orders to rescue its financial position. Tesla loses $19,810 on each car it sells, and hemorrhages $51,344 in negative cash flow on each vehicle at the start of the year.
Tesla’s annual report stated, “Sources of cash are predominately from our deliveries of vehicles, as well as customer deposits, sales of regulatory credits, proceeds from financing activities.” Tesla’s “biggest source of cash” has been those customer deposits.
Despite holding $283.4 million in customer deposits at year end, Tesla was technically cash-flow insolvent. The company’s working capital (= current assets – current liabilities) was a negative $24.7 million. Without those deposits, Tesla’s working capital deficit would have ballooned to a stunning negative $301.8 million.
About $156.5 million of Tesla’s $283.4 million in customer deposits were recently generated from the 31,300 Model X preorders the company booked during the vehicle’s star-studded-launch on September 29, 2015.
Tesla just admitted in its special SEC disclosure filing that despite promising to produce 16,000 vehicles, first quarter deliveries consisted of only 12,420 Model S and 2,400 Model X vehicles. With negative working capital, Tesla’s lack of cash may explain why the company’s production fell short by almost 10 percent.
But with 300,000 customers putting down $1,000 each for the privilege of waiting until at least the end of 2017 for the first Model 3 deliveries, Tesla generated $300 million in customer deposits to continue to fund operations.
Still, with negative cash flow running at about $121 million a quarter, Tesla will burn through its Model 3 cash and be insolvent again in the next 7 months. If the company speeds up production from 60,000 cars a year to 80,000, as promised, Tesla will burn through its Model 3 cash by the end of August.
Either way, Tesla will have burned through its Model 3 cash deposits at least a year before the first Model 3 is scheduled to roll off the assembly line.
Ouch... personally I think they could have built their factory anywhere but where they did. Hard to sustain a car factory in the most expensive part of the country to live in. If these production cost are similar for the Model 3, it almost looks impossible to sell one for a profit. I don't see what production cost savings they realize just because the Model 3 is a little smaller than the Model S. They are actually simple cars to build compared to an internal combustion car.
The $12.6 billion in pre-orders for the Tesla Model 3 on Mar. 31 demonstrates that Tesla Motors Inc. can produce incredible hype. But a day later, the company filed disclosure with the SEC admitting that it missed first quarter vehicle deliveries by almost 10 percent.
Breitbart News revealed Tuesday revealed that Tesla was in a working capital crisis in the first quarter of 2016, and likely used pre-orders to rescue its financial position. Tesla loses $19,810 on each car it sells, and hemorrhages $51,344 in negative cash flow on each vehicle at the start of the year.
Tesla’s annual report stated, “Sources of cash are predominately from our deliveries of vehicles, as well as customer deposits, sales of regulatory credits, proceeds from financing activities.” Tesla’s “biggest source of cash” has been those customer deposits.
Despite holding $283.4 million in customer deposits at year end, Tesla was technically cash-flow insolvent. The company’s working capital (= current assets – current liabilities) was a negative $24.7 million. Without those deposits, Tesla’s working capital deficit would have ballooned to a stunning negative $301.8 million.
About $156.5 million of Tesla’s $283.4 million in customer deposits were recently generated from the 31,300 Model X preorders the company booked during the vehicle’s star-studded-launch on September 29, 2015.
Tesla just admitted in its special SEC disclosure filing that despite promising to produce 16,000 vehicles, first quarter deliveries consisted of only 12,420 Model S and 2,400 Model X vehicles. With negative working capital, Tesla’s lack of cash may explain why the company’s production fell short by almost 10 percent.
But with 300,000 customers putting down $1,000 each for the privilege of waiting until at least the end of 2017 for the first Model 3 deliveries, Tesla generated $300 million in customer deposits to continue to fund operations.
Still, with negative cash flow running at about $121 million a quarter, Tesla will burn through its Model 3 cash and be insolvent again in the next 7 months. If the company speeds up production from 60,000 cars a year to 80,000, as promised, Tesla will burn through its Model 3 cash by the end of August.
Either way, Tesla will have burned through its Model 3 cash deposits at least a year before the first Model 3 is scheduled to roll off the assembly line.
Wow. Financing current operations with deposits for future deliveries sounds suspiciously like a Ponzi scheme. Wonder how long Tesla can keep the musical chairs going?
Wow. Financing current operations with deposits for future deliveries sounds suspiciously like a Ponzi scheme. Wonder how long Tesla can keep the musical chairs going?
YEAH. The P word jumped right into my mind when I looked at the deposit agreement & it said the deposits were going into the general fund & not into escrow. Raises all the red flags with a former banker. People are effectively investing in the company without getting anything back.
The government might consider Tesla a to big to fail deal & keep the subsidies flowing.
YEAH. The P word jumped right into my mind when I looked at the deposit agreement & it said the deposits were going into the general fund & not into escrow. Raises all the red flags with a former banker. People are effectively investing in the company without getting anything back.
The government might consider Tesla a to big to fail deal & keep the subsidies flowing.
They are now over 400,000 pre-orders for the Model 3. I think they have made less than 80,000 cars in their entire history. Something is going to have to change pretty quickly in their production capacity.
Here's a recent article from The Car Pro, nationally-syndicated radio host:
Tesla Model 3: More Questions Than Answers
People stand in lines for days to get the latest, greatest version of a new iPhone...they camp out even. Some people get to department stores in the middle of the night on Thanksgiving to grab a bargain on Black Friday and there are always news crews there to cover it.
We saw this phenomenon again recently when people stood in long lines to plop down $1000 for a chance to purchase a Tesla Model 3. Did I say a chance to buy one? Yes, essentially that is what all these folks did. They got caught up in the frenzy, largely avoiding and ignoring, unknown facts.
According to Tesla, 325,000 people gave them possibly the biggest interest-free loan in American history. They needed it, too. They have yet to turn a profit, and according to sources, go into the hole, cash flow-wise, every month.
People put up a deposit on a car that is supposed to be $35,000 with no options. What do you get for that? Nobody knows. Range is supposed to be 215-miles, but since the first car is still a long way from being built, do we really know? Launch is supposed to be in 2017, but given the track record of Tesla launches, 2019 is a much safer bet.
How long does it take to charge the Model 3? Oh yes, we don't know. Will you need to buy an expensive charger to get a quicker charge to get you back on the road sooner? Probably. What are the crash test ratings? Again, all is unknown given VIN #00001 is still a long way away from reality.
One has to wonder why all those people stood in line to give up a $1000 of their hard-earned money when you could do it all online at the Tesla website. You can go to the website,www.tesla.comto try to find answers, but you'll only find evasive answers, not unlike a used car salesman in the '60s.
For instance, at their website under Q&A, there is the question "what more can you tell me about the Model 3?" Answer: "it will be awesome.
We'll continue to share more about Model 3 with you over the coming months, as we get closer to production. Stay tuned!"
Other interesting tidbits from the Tesla website: "By making your ($1000) reservation, you have secured the approximate priority within your region for taking delivery of your Model 3". HUH? This is interesting, too: "While this reservation secures the approximate delivery priority within your region, it does not constitute the purchase or order of a vehicle." Which begs the question, why did I give you my thousand bucks? This deal seems to have more hooks than a trotline.
I also love this from their website: "designed to achieve (then in bold type) 5-Star Safety Rating." So was the Pinto, but we know how that turned out.
Look, I like Tesla and have strongly considered buying one myself. It is also good to know that America has an appetite for a $35,000 electric car that seats five, has 215-miles of range, and has 5-star safety ratings. The big question is: which car company will eventually build such a car? Time will tell, and I may eat these words, but I doubt it will be Tesla, and can almost guarantee you it won't be in 2017, or even 2018, and most likely never. I just sincerely hope the company does not go bankrupt and stiff the adoring fans who handed over ten one hundred dollar bills on blind faith.
In the meantime, standing ovation to super-marketer Elon Musk for selling the sizzle with no steak, and pulling off a 325-million dollar cash grab.
^ Nope- cars are made in Fremont CA. Tesla's talking about manufacturing abroad though- possibly with the Model3 or future models. Tesla's losing money so no need to move out of U.S. until they make a profit.
Hmmm, I could have sworn I read that a few years back.. *shrug*
You might be thinking about Fisker. They were recently bought by a Chinese company. So these cars will look great under the Christmas tree and your kids will have a blast riding in it, until you plug it in to recharge and it catches fire and burns your house down.
04-02-2016, 02:26 PM
