No argument there. But I lease, so anything beyond 3 years is pointless for me.

 

we notice that the small TLX etc is being pushed harder than the top models. We also notice that when we bought the 1992 Legend back in 1992 Acura treated us like we were royalty. Anything the car needed they fixed without us having to mention. Then in 1998 when we replaced it with a 1995 Legend we noticed that we had to argue a little whether something was or was not in the warranty. Now with the RL we have to take it back twice often before the problem is resolved - especially if it costs Acura money. One of the most recent reports on service rated Acura down with Ford and Chevy*. Hardly where a premium company wants to be. Instead of dealing with those issues the RL turns into the RLX for more money and complexity (rear wheel steering for example.) Acura is on the wrong trajectory plain and simple in my opinion. A new TLX parked next to us last night. Nearby was a new Accord. Hard for me to justify spending $60,000 on a new Acura when it feels like to me the brand is being eroded out from me as an existing owner. Just my opinion.


* Honda was 8th and Acura 11th. http://www.newsday.com/classifieds/c...ota-1.10387053

 

The additional year of warranty is not free, it's included in the higher price of the Acura brand. Historically not much has broken during the warranty period with either Honda or Acura but that may no longer be the case. If someone bought the Honda they could put all the savings in the bank for any potential repairs for that additional year.

 

^

what this guy said.

BMW offer "Free" 4 year maintenance? is it free? Hell No. They made you (me) pay for it and also made you thank them for it.

With Honda, just paid about $1000 and you will get another 3 or 4 or 5 years of extended warranty.

 

It's that kind of thrill

 

Jeez, guys, I didn't say it was free. It was just something that hadn't been mentioned.

 

If it is not free, then you are not really getting anything extra. So no one mentioned it or forgot to mentioned it.

 

I would argue the Touring models of the Accord are the ones that don't make as much sense. My mom (who knows nothing about cars), was a lot more impressed with how the TLX felt to drive than the Accord Touring. She said the TLX felt 'safer' in higher speed cornering, and that it was a lot more refined.


By FAR the Accord Sport is the one that makes sense to buy of all Accords. If only they offered a couple little extra goodies on it.

 

I don't follow your logic, but please don't try to explain it. I'm through with this thread

 

Bingo.

For a very easy example just look at Lexus and Infiniti.

Both Toyota and Nissan have made quite a bit of desirable platforms to differentiate themselves from their baseline models:

Camry/Avalon --> ES/GS/LS (V6/V8 with RWD+AWD available and much different styling)

Maxima --> G35/37/Q50/70 (V6/V8 with RWD+AWD available and much different styling)

Accord --> TLX/RL (V6 with FWD-based AWD and some styling differences)

Halo car wise Honda is of course coming out with NSX 2.0
Toyota had launched its LFA and has the GS sport sedans and the Toyobaru BRZ-FRS86. Upcoming Supra successor in the works I presume.

Nissan of course has the Godzilla. Though I do wish they would make a limited run of GT-R powered sedan the Q50 Eau Rouge. Unfortunately will not see light of day.

There is much more big jump from the top two brands than Honda. And that I think is the weak point in Acura as you pointed out. And with baseline models getting more competitive in terms of more luxury/features/tech so as to have Honda stay competitive to Toyota/Nissan, it may be even harder to differentiate and separate yourself.

Yeah unfortunately that is the case.

Though obviously one does not need to be like a extreme frugal and driving around in a total beater all day long...it is unfortunate that some are too quick to judge a book by its cover. Which in some cases may work to the detriment to the judger.

edit: another somewhat sad trend is you see guys getting out of their 3G TLs (or other TLs for that matter) and just look at the general car talk section or the TL sections...many guys are getting into luxury level RWD platforms or higher powered platforms with RWD and getting totally away from Acura! Can acura retain buyers?

Younger guys who could only afford, maybe, conjecturing here....3G/4G TLs are now wanting newer cars and if you look at the threads around here you see guys getting into: CTS-V/Charger/Mustang/WRX/Audi/Lexus/etc.etc.

 

i wish acura's design would differentiate a bit compares to hondas...

I hate it when people say that my tsx is an accord (which is true) but it sounds like they are saying why did you buy that car when you can get an accord... and I paid thousands more and i don't see why I bought an acura first place... but love my tsx still

 

seems like the grass is always greener somewhere else at acurazine these days.

 

You nailed it. Extra goodies like push button start (I still can't believe this is not standard across all Honda trims), a sunroof, CarPlay and Android Auto. Honda would definitely have a sales winner with this, especially for the buyer who wants all the goodies without leather or a V-6. The Sport would be the way to go.

Now that I think about it, the Accord should only be offered in 3 trims, LX, Sport, and Touring. Or LX, EX, and Touring and make the Sport a Package and not a trim.

 

I like the Accord, it is getting better all the time. Can't say that about the TLX.

 

You're comparing a car that has been there since the pretty much the beginning of Honda's time with a car that was just introduced last year....

 

The RL/RLX was never a viable solution for upward migration from the TL/TLX so most moved on as their buying power increased.

Believe the NSX will be way to much of a price jump to fill that need & will be a stand alone unit. I lived in the UK when the old NSX was being sold & it was badged as a HONDA. Was a hard sell, a red one sat unsold in the HONDA dealers window in Gerrards Cross where I lived for 3 years

 

The Honda marketing strategy is pretty simple and efficient with the Accord:

1) You want an inexpensive car that will be dependable and last for 10 years and hold a decent resale value - get the LX.

2) You're a 20 something and you want a car that looks a little more sporty - the Sport is a killer value and still very affordable.

3) If you want more tech and nicer options then you have to pony up some extra dough for the EX or EX-L.

4) You want the big dog and can afford even more $$ then the Touring is how you need to roll!

It's all about making you climb up the ladder.

 

Actually alot of us are saying is that the grass is looking greener over at Honda. Which is a problem when you have your Acura customers saying that....

 

I am at a point where I've learned my lesson and wouldn't settle for the "close enough" model. Overall, the TLX is the better car...

 

That said, I agree and it certainly SUCKS that it's hard to differentiate!
Although, lowered with a set of wheels...the TLX is by far more sexy in the body lines dept.

 

Yup.

There's no really performance oriented luxury solutions that many on this forum are obviously looking for as I think this forum mainly is probably at least higher than medium middle class and definitely upper-middle class+

So when you are looking as you say for more car...there's just not much that Acura offers when you can buy a lot of car over at lexus/infiniti/audi/cadillac/etc.

I feel like many who stick with Acura are big fans of Honda/Acura in general.


The base V6 TLX starts at around 35k....and I reckon if you can plop down that much there are a good variety of other options (including lightly used cars: GS/G37/et al) that may be more desirable.

 

I see that. acura sales are generally doing pretty well right now, so I think it's mainly an issue on acurazine.

 

Comments like this kill me:


"The one area in which I would like to see Acura differentiate itself from Honda on a grander scale, is performance. Enough of the half-hearted AWD systems and motors and elevate their standing in the performance world. The DCT in the TLX was a nice addition. I would like to see a RWD car from them, or a true AWD system that isn't FWD-biased."


Obviously written by someone who has never driven a SH-AWD vehicle hard or who missed the comparos where the TL AWD out-handled comparable RWD and "proper AWD" cars on road courses. Not to mention the stability Acura's AWD system provides in inclement weather.

 

When were you there? I lived in Gerrards Cross (Morland drive) in the late 80's early 90's. Acura as a brand did not exist then. Sterling partnered with Honda and produced the UK version of what eventually became the TL. But it was a British car and did not have Honda/Acura's reliability. I drove one for a while but moved on to an under powered BMW. (Thanks to the UK tax laws on 2 liter engines.)

 

I'd love to rip a SH-AWD...but can't justify buying one considering Florida weather.

 

I don't know how long they're going to continue offering V6 FWD cars. They completely axed the option of getting FWD with a V6 in Canada for 2016+. It's SH-AWD or GTFO. Looks like V6 FWD is still being offered in the US for now though, although if they start pushing more power they might not. There could come a time when economies of scale make it such that the SH-AWD isn't more expensive relatively than the 2WD model is now.


Were I in charge at Acura, I'd have on offer a turbo 4, an NA V6, and a twin turbo V6 Type S on offer, all with SH-AWD only.


BTW, the nice thing about SH-AWD from FWD based platforms is that the differential hump doesn't take up any room up front like it does on RWD based platforms. That was one of the big reasons I avoided the Lexus IS350 AWD (offered ONLY in AWD in Canada too...) and my right calf kept hitting that stupid hump. It was a massive dealbreaker for me.

 

Well shit, apply for the job, we'll all back you! You can even list me as a character reference.

MMMmmm...twin turbo V6.

 

Haha, they'd never take a geophysicist!

Yup! A tiny one (for covering lag in the lower range) and a big one (for more power that spools up later). I know they're capable of it. I think Acura just needs to show people they CAN do it. Now that upper management has changed for the better, I think they'll be more willing to do more fun stuff.

 

We can only hope...
until then, I can only be grateful that I still don't think my 12 year old car is an outdated piece of shit!

Hey, the earth...everything is cyclical, maybe you'd give a fresh perspective!

 

One only needs to take a look at the annual sales numbers to see the story. I'm not saying the TLX is a bad car, but the numbers speak for themselves:

3G TL sales numbers:
2004 77,895
2005 78,218
2006 71,348
2007 58,545
2008 46,766

TOTAL: 332,772 cars in 5 years.
Avg 66,554 cars/year for the 3G


4G TL sales numbers:
2009 33,620
2010 34,049
2011 31,237
2012 33,572
2013 24,318
2014 10,616
TOTAL: 167,412 cars in 6 years
Avg 27,902 cars/yr for the 4G.

Whopping ~50% decrease in sales since the 3G was left. (of course we all remember the economy crash of 2008/2009. of course remember the other auto makers were in the economy as well and most everyone took a hit but most are either stablizing or trending up and Acura has been slumping so far)

I'm sure Honda has done their share of firing/hirings at management meetings in 2013/2014/etc. Because the sales have fallen off a cliff for the past generation.

Now after some searches here are some comparable competitors to the TL and their sales numbers segmented by the same time frame as the 3G/4G TL time frame (04-08, 09-14)

Lexus ES (another V6 FWD luxury platform, the GS are quite a low volume seller compared to the ES)
2004 75,916
2005 67,577
2006 75,987
2007 82,867
2008 64,135

2009 48,485
2010 48,652
2011 40,873
2012 56,158
2013 72,581
2014 72,508

Lexus IS
2004 9972
2005 15,789
2006 54,267
2007 54,933
2008 49,432

2009 38,077
2010 34,129
2011 29,669
2012 27,708
2013 35,017
2014 51,358

As can be seen the Toyota is crushing it.
Also the IS numbers are very comparable too, selling quite a bit as well in those years.

Now let's move on to the other close competitor the offering from Nissan (Infini G series)
2004 71,177
2005 68,728
2006 60,741
2007 71,809
2008 64,181

2009 47,174
2010 58,143
2011 58,246
2012 59,844
2013 57,878
2014 15,590

Q50 sales:
2013 17,816
2014 36,899

Again some slump in the mid years as seen above but the numbers still crush the TL sales.

BMW 3-series are selling 90k-100k cars each year or so in those same year range. Sales are picking up with whopping 142k sold in 2014.
2004 106,549
2005 106,950
2006 120,180
2007 142,490
2008 112,464

2009 90,960
2010 100,910
2011 94,371
2012 99,602
2013 119,521
2014 142,232

C-Class are 50-80k annual each or so. Sales still strong coming in to the 2010s:
2004 69,251
2005 60,658
2006 50,187
2007 63,701
2008 72,471

2009 52,427
2010 58,785
2011 69,314
2012 81,697
2013 88,251
2014 75,065

Audi A4 fairly steady, not as high numbers but still strong in last 1-2 years:
2004 47,168
2005 48,922
2006 49,862
2007 45,411
2008 43,343

2009 37,070
2010 34,672
2011 35,234
2012 38,530
2013 42,130
2014 38,679

TLX just came out so it will take a while/few years to see how it really stacks up against the other guys.

All data taken from wiki pages and this site: Sales Stats - GOOD CAR BAD CAR

If someone has lots of time on hands maybe can make a graph/chart comparing the TL to other cars in its class.

 

through october over 40,000 tlx's have sold. better than any year of the 4g. they are moving in the right direction. now let's hope we get a tlx type-s or type-r.

Acura Sales 2015 | Acura Connected

 

Doh! You're right, Somehow I didn't notice they have sales figures so far already for 2015..a.nd you're right things are trending up quite a bit:
2014 19,127
2015 YTD 40,585
Source: Acura TLX Sales Figures - GOOD CAR BAD CAR

They may be able to reach 50k TLX this year which would be a much better number than before.

Well looks like they know what they're doing. Guess that's why none of us are in charge of Acura development/marketing/etc.

 

Accords sold 40,931 in August 2015. More in one month than 10 months for the TLX.

 

Cheaper cars move more models - the near luxury segment has never been all that much of a hot selling segment comparatively. I bet you BMW doesn't sell as many 7 series as it does 3 series, for example. Also I bet you Honda and Toyota sell more Civics and Corollas than Accords and Camrys (especially true in Canada). Look at the MB CLA sales, those tell an interesting story. That car is more in line with Touring level Accords in base form, and sells appropriately. Hell, look at the Mercedes-Benz B-Class in Canada, thing sold like hotcakes.


Additionally, SUV sales have been crushing sedan sales for awhile now. Look how many Acura RDXs, MDXs, Lexus NXs, RXs, BMW X3s, etc that manufacturers are selling these days.

 

As a brand, they're headed back in the right direction.

Acura is a lifestyle

 

I believe TL sales tanked in 2009 in large part due to the controversial (aka ugly) styling. The same thing happened to the Accord in 2003 with its ugly remodel. Prior to the 2003 remodel, the Accord had been the best selling car in America for many years. It was passed that year by the Camry, and has never recovered. I believe the TLX was a big improvement over the TL styling wise. However, due to the reliability problems, I do not believe sales are going to reach 3 gen TL levels for some time, if ever.

 

Some of you are handing too much to the Accord. Yes the touring is a nice car, but it still looks and feels much cheaper than the TLX on the inside. It feels like what it is, a nice Honda and nothing more than that. The TLX feels luxurious on the inside as it should. And while some materials could be better, it's still really nice. There are a few pieces on the inside of the TLX that I wish weren't hard plastic but oh well.

The 2016 Accord Sport is a beautiful car that makes me wonder why Acura can't do the same for the TLX. Hell, even Honda makes an Accord "Type-S" or as they call the sport model, but their luxury division competitor can't offer that athleticism?

I think where Acura went wrong was getting owners used to a more premium mid-size sedan (3G and 4G) and then combining a lower end model (TSX) with the TL. The TSX didn't have a place in the Acura lineup so they should have just gotten rid of it and not lower the quality of the TL to make the TLX.

The 2014 TL was really behind in technology and it's obvious that's what Acura really focused on with the TLX. I think since they're all caught up in technology their next step with the TLX is to focus on the exterior (give a sportier option) and hopefully some performance upgrades. Acura's whole design campaign of looking greener and removing the exhaust tips is one of the dumbest things they have ever done, they still do a nice job of designing the back end though. I think a lot can agree that offering a sportier and faster TLX will satisfy most of our wishes?

 

Lived on Manor Lane off Windsor Rd. from the mid 80's to early 90's. Had an XJ 4.0 V8 Sovereign & a MB E class.

Drove a Sterling for a month or so when I first got there. Think it was a V6. Was a nice car; hit 100mph a few times on a long weekend trip to Devon. Stayed in Bourne End till the house was ready & brought the rest of the family over

That was before England became infested with Automatic Number Plate Recognition, and the 1,000 cameras currently being used can be linked so as to monitor a motorist’s whole journey on main roads across the country

 

I agree that the 4G TL felt far more premium than the TLX both in ride and interior feel. Infusing the TSX nimbleness and lights footed was a mistake IMO. to me a luxury sporty sedan should feel planted and solid. The 4G TL felt like a bank vault and planted with materials that felt a bit more supple and soft. Also the crappy Goodyear tires hurt it unless you are cross shopping a Lexus ES. I swapped out the Goodyears for Conti DWS 06 and the ride is night and day better. The car feels more secure on the road, some of the jitteriness is gone since the Goodyears were marshmallows. I wish they would have kept then 4G dimensions inside and out. That said I like the TLX and think Acura is headed in right direction. The tech is good, but the ELS sounds less than that in the 4G and AcuraLink Next Generation is an embarrassment of tech that needs to get redone as all it does it make me crave a CarPlay or Andoid Auto that is blue tooth enabled.

 

No matter how much goodies Honda throughs at Accord, TLX will remain a premium car.

Before, I purchase my 4G TL I was thinking to buy another Accord. I didn't have any intention to buy an Acura. Randomly I sat inside a 4G TL and I was amazed. There is no doubt that no Accord is very advanced and has very similar goodies as TLX but still Acura brand is associated to premium/luxury and has a reputation of performance. I highly doubt if there is any Accord out there to handle the same as a SH-AWD with 300+ ponies

Let's not forget, the car industry is not the same as 2004. Its very competitive, interest rates are all time low. People can afford to buy German cars easily...the CLA, A3 and etc...people have more choices.