jjsC5

Just checked. Ours does not have it. It shows as available on the 2015 site, but Lexus' web site is a joke. I can't find what packages it comes with and can't even find how to "build" a car.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the explanation...I thought I was at the wrong builder or something...it all sounds quite confusing and I guess you just have to do it at the dealership or something.

Now, I understand that there's a $8k difference between the discounted price on a GS350 Luxury and a TLX Advance SH-AWD. But what I'm saying is that the TLX advance is far too well equipped that it's more comparable to the GS350 Tech or Tech Plus.

I just think it's more than just a $8k difference. Jmark will be paying for $8k more while giving up on things such as premium audio, blind spot info, cross traffic info, adaptive cruise control, collision mitigation braking system, lane keep, etc. In return, he gets things like power folding mirrors, the Lexus badge, and a larger, more high end car.

LiQiCE

Hm - do you think perhaps the F-Sport's adaptive variable suspension is giving you the false impression of it being soft? The car does ride very smooth even over rough surfaces - but it is pretty well planted. Bone stock, the AWD is very composed when pushing it hard and I generally feel like I can keep pushing the car despite going pretty damn fast already. Also compared to the 4G SH-AWD TL which had a very stiff suspension - it might feel soft to you comparatively, but I think grip wise they are comparable.

Actually, not the ideal comparison but probably as good as you'll find since there aren't any same article comparisons between the GS and TL.

Motortrend - GS350 - Lateral Accel-0.94g & Slalom-25.4 sec @ 0.71g / TL SH-AWD - Lateral Accel-0.90g & Slalom-26.1 @ 0.78g : Six-Cylinder Midsize Luxury Sedan Comparison - Audi A6, BMW 535i, Lexus GS 350, Infiniti M37 - Motor Trend All Pages
2012 Acura TL SH-AWD First Test - Motor Trend All Pages

Also - Edmunds - GS350 - slalom-69.7mph, skidpad-0.88g / TL SH-AWD - slalom 64.6mpg, Skidpad-0.87g

2013 Lexus GS 350 F Road Test
Track Tested: 2012 Acura TL SH-AWD

I do agree on the wood steering wheel, but to each his own I guess!

Yeah their website is sorely lacking - surprising that a company as big as Toyota can't hire a decent company to build their website.

LiQiCE

Hm - Blind Spot Monitoring is almost "standard" on all US model GS's (it is difficult to find one without it at least in the Northeast). And if you have Blind Spot Monitoring, you also get the Rear Cross Traffic alert. The Mark Levinson system might come with the Luxury model as well (in some regions it comes with it).

Also, the Premium audio system in the GS350 (thats the stock one) is actually a pretty decent system, some people actually prefer it to the Mark Levinson system because it is more punchy while the ML system is more of an audiophile system that has more clarity and a natural and balanced sound. The Premium Audio system has 12 speakers supports 5.1 surround sound and 300 watts. The ML system is 16 speakers, and 835 watts.

Its possible, the Luxury model he's looking at has some extra options, only way to know for sure is for Jmark to tell us and the only good way for him to know is to look at the window sticker.

But agree with you - there are some features he'll likely lose unless he is looking at a fully loaded Luxury model. Typically the features you miss out on are the Adaptive Cruise Control, CMBS and Lane Keep Assist. Some people would rather do without these "nanny" features and just drive.

Its sort of like the conundrum you have when jumping to the next "higher" model - if you get a fully loaded ILX, the price approaches a base TLX and a fully loaded TLX approaches the price of a base RLX. A lot of people say the GS is technically the RLX's competitor, so you're kind of stepping 1 model "up" and getting less features for more money.

Jmark

The GS350 AWD I drove had the technology package which includes AVS. In normal mode it felt very similar to the TLX and in sport plus mode felt a little stiffer than the TLX. I didn't really get a chance to REALLY test the various modes at speed, due to the route the dealer took me.
The steering wheel looked fine to me, the leather where the hand warmers are actually made it look pretty good and wasn't anything that turned me off.

It would be nice to drive both vehicles back to back on the same route. That would make it a lot easier to see and feel the various aspects of the vehicles while the first one is still fresh in ones mind.
The trunk in the GS did SEEM roomier even though they are supposed to be the same size. And I would like the rear seats to fold down as well. Having said that the smallish hole in the folded down TLX seats doesn't seem like it's going to be of much value when stuffing luggage in it. Great for long objects like skis, etc., however once folded down a person could put luggage on top of the folded seats instead of on the leather interior.

Still undecided

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Haha, it really seems like Lexus needs to revamp its website! Its configurator is horrible and it seems like what I see on it might not match what's out there at the dealers....

LiQiCE

Agree - I've complained about it quite a bit over on ClubLexus.com, not sure why they pay so little attention to their website. Maybe since their demographic used to be older they thought they didn't need it

Its been getting younger though so I don't know what they're thinking.

Or maybe they just make it suck so bad so you'll come into the dealership to figure out wtf is going on.

The Edmunds.com or Motortrend.com configurator for the GS is more accurate and that really speaks volumes - although they will let you pick options that are unavailable (ex. I can pick Dynamic Rear Steer on an AWD GS350, and that actually isn't an option on the AWD models) - unfortunately neither handles Canadian spec cars but maybe there is something similar?

Jmark

Couldn't agree more! Their website is not very good, and I'm being polite
Do they put those big window stickers on the Lexus vehicles in the U.S.? As I didn't see them on any of the new vehicles on the lot. One is forced into speaking to a sales person! I figured because it was actually made outside of the continent as I didn't see any on the BMW's either?

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Although I'm not in the market for a car, I always like to go to car websites and configure different cars.....it's hard to do that on the Lexus website...

SSFTSX

Compare the tires before even make comparision.
2013 Lexus GS 350 F Road Test Specs | Edmunds.com

Jmark

Anyone got any tips or advice on buying a demo vehicle that has 4,000 km on it?
I'm a big concerned about how those Km's as were put on the car. I know I go hard as a can when test driving. Obviously the car isn't going to get the nice break in that the manufacture suggests, how much harm could be done to the drive train?

Is it too much of a gamble in order to save $2-3k? Or how much off the sale price should one be going for?

The reason I ask is the only 2014 GS350 in the province with the color I want happens to be a demo.

I'm leaning towards the Lexus because of the seats+ and poor dealer experience I'm having with our local Acura dealer

And speaking about configuration confusion. The Lexus dealer here gives you four choices for the GS350 AWD and doesn't break out the costs in those choices! Couldn't figure out why their sheet showed about a $3k difference from the website. Turns out they include, All those PDI+ costs as well as winter package, full 3m which is standard for this dealer and a couple other small items. But they will break it out if you ask! Guess some people just want a car and it's final price and don't care how the price is derived.

LiQiCE

Honestly with Honda/Toyota and Acura/Lexus I don't really think you'll have anything to worry about. If it were a manual transmission, then maybe there was a risk that someone over-revved the engine (downshifted into a lower gear too early or accidently downshifted into the wrong gear) but there really isn't too much harm you can do to the car when driven in the normal rev range. Some would argue that the break-in period doesn't mean you should baby the car, only vary the revs to ensure that the engine is broken in throughout the all the revs.

If you can get a good deal on the demo - and there isn't anything glaring wrong with it (check for any scratches, curbed rims, etc) I would go for it. Just make sure you're getting a hefty discount off of the price of a brand new car. See if maybe they can give you a real good price on an extended warranty just incase you do have any problems (and since you're losing 4000km off the factory warranty).

I owned a 2011 ES350 that was a demo vehicle bought with 8000 miles on it and I had absolutely no problems with it. We only sold the car because my wife wanted a larger vehicle (we bought a 2014 MDX - would have considered the RX if it had 3rd row seating).

Jmark

Yea, your probably right about hurting the engine or tranny! And for the most part the salesman does go on the ride (at this dealership).
Wish I would have time to really nose drag the demo while I was in Cow Town, but I didn't think the wife would appreciate me being late for my nephews wedding lol
The only thing that stood out was a busted up windshield, as part of there normal test route is on a busy gravel road and a gravel truck threw a rock.
So I'll have to give her the evil eye check over, if I decide to buy it.
I'm hoping to get another $2-3 grand off, as well as the $5000 yr. end incentive.
But maybe that's not enough of a discount? Hard to compare when there are so few used 2014's for sale.
BTW what's your thoughts on of the Gen 7 Infotainment vs the new 2015 Gen 8 system as I can't find a decent comparison and even if I did I don't know how well the Gen 7 worked.

LiQiCE

Yeah I'm not really sure what an appropriate price would be. I would expect them to give you it for invoice price, minus the $5000 rebate and then maybe another $3k off - maybe more. When I leased my 2014 with 25 miles on it the purchase price was about $1500 under invoice then minus the $1750 rebate and first month's lease payment (which for me was $416).

As far as the windshield goes, if it is really messed up, you can ask them to replace it - just make sure they replace it with OEM Lexus glass and not some aftermarket windshield.

As far as the Gen 7 versus Gen 8 Infotainment system - I've never used the Gen 8 system but based on the product info on Gen 8 the way I see it, there are a few major differences:

1. Uses Micro SD card instead of a HDD, meaning you can upgrade the maps by simply popping out the old card and popping in a new one. The Gen7 system requires you goto the dealer and pay for 2 hours of labor to upgrade the maps.
2. "One shot" address input - means you can say "123 Main St, New York, NY" in one sentence rather than inputting the City, then the Street, then the house number.
3. 3D Maps - this has been missing on Lexus navigation for a long time. I think Acura had it on the 3G TL.
4. Subscription free HD Traffic & Weather, the Gen 7 uses XM Traffic and Weather that is not free.
5. MID Data Sharing, this is something Acura has that is pretty cool - Navigation directions (and song information, call information, etc) appear in the MID between the tachometer and speedometer

I think these are all great features, but I don't regret waiting for and probably paying more for a 2015.

dseag2

As the former owner of a '99 TL, '04 TL and '05 RL with SH-AWD, I will have to say that my '13 GS F Sport is one of the best handling cars I have ever owned and has one of the nicest interiors. I wouldn't have even considered the Luxury Package because I still have infinitely adjustable power seats, HUD, and a rear-steer system that allows me to plow through corners (similar to the SH-AWD system on the RL). he Cabernet interior with aluminum accents feels modern and doesn't feel "cavernous" at all to me. Although I am past Acura owner, I would highly recommend the GS in F Sport trim.

Jmark

Thanks for the post. I must be getting old as the F-Sport is just a little too sporty for me Beautiful car and you could clearly see that the F-sport was made specifically for the sports enthusiast !

Jmark

Thanks LiQice, they already told me the windshield was being replaced with a Lexus shield.

I wonder what invoice price would be ? I suppose there are online pay sites that will sell a person that info. As I mentioned before they don't even have window stickers with the build info. and MSRP. Instead they use a one page summary sheet that lists four different packages with very little detail

Sounds like some nice upgrades to the Navi ! In my experience I rarely use my navi as I refuse to spend $300 a year for a new disk, just to be current. Especially when I can get the latest and greatest maps and directions using a cell phone. But it would be nice to have everything in one spot on the info/navi screen
The salesperson I'm dealing with says the 2015 MRSP is exactly the same as 2014 pricing, at least on the GS350 AWD with tech package. I guess our dollar hasn't changed that much when compared to the Yen, unlike the Greenback?

BEAR-AvHistory

Really?

Jmark

LOL !! Noted your personal info. What I should have said is that I can't afford too many toys at my age

I want out of the rat race early, so retirement is also on my list of todo's this year.

That BMW 438i I test drove was truly a hoot ( I got to drive it hard) and if I were single a sports car would be right down my alley. As it is I need to drug my wife just so she doesn't scare the crap out of me when I'm eating up the mountain roads ( shriek,why are you going so fast! Yadda,yadda) So really it's my wife's fault that I'm having to buy something that more practical than sporty

Took my Sister's new Cayman for a spin and stopped by to show the wife. Well she was not impressed when I told her I had just bought it and told her we would just have to pack light for any trips we go on. Well the look on her face!
In all fairness to my wife she has LOTS of health issues with her bones, severe arthritis, scoliosis to name a few. So she really does need a very comfortable vehicle to travel in, else we aren't going anywhere together

So here I am trying to find the perfect car for us, cost effective, sporty but not too sporty, nice looking car inside and out and seats that MUST be very comfortable.

Quandry

Based on your wife's requirements (top priority) and your budget the GS with an extended warranty seems like the best option. Have your wife sit in on a test drive of the GS and TLX and let her make the final decision. This is a win-win proposition.

LiQiCE

There must be some Canadian sites that can give you the invoice price of the car for free. Edmunds.com, TrueCar.com are just 2 free ones in the USA.

A quick google search revealed Best New Car Prices in Canada. Free Dealer Invoice Price. | Unhaggle is free but you may have to provide some personal info - which results in a dealer bugging you.

BEAR-AvHistory

Well that's a lot different reason than just being an Old Fart. There are workarounds.

One to tease you with. The DHS suspension system available on the BMW's ($1000) is a real time fully adjustable unit. It has a number of programs the tell the suspension how 'sporty' or refined to be. Same functionally as the StingRay/Cadillac V system using a different technology. It also modulates throttle, steering & shift programs. Its call having your cake & making the wife happy too with the same car.

Should I forget my wife's internal accelerometer will prompt her to prompt me to switch from one of the performance settings to comfort mode should I "forget" when she is in the car. Just so you know her accelerometer is sensitive enough to know I had changed tires on my old 3 series. She did not know exactly what I had done but she felt the difference in the ride. The good news at the time was she liked the new tires much better than the ones I took off.

That all said I think between your two listed choices based on what you just wrote I would buy the Lexus.

jjsC5

My BMW 550 has that suspension as does my Lexus have the same technology. The Lexus is far better riding and handles better.

Stew4HD

IMO, The TLX still fits your requirements like a glove. The seats are very comfy, is nice looking inside and out (subjective). You'll have the Acura reliability as well.

The TLX deserves a It certainly seems that some folks are pushing you towards the GS.

In the end, it's your $$. I am not in your shoes. I only know my own experience with the GS and the test drives I've taken of the TLX.

Again, good luck with your decision

jjsC5

That is a great response. I've always said its easy to spend other peoples money. I love our GS, but I know it's $15,000 more than a loaded TLX. At the end of the day, it's not just which is the better car, it's whether the GS is worth the extra money or not.

Jmark

Thanks for all your replies guys, you really are a great bunch!
Lots of very valid points and I'm still on the fence.
Somehow I'd like to be able to take the wife on an hour or so drive in both vehicles. Then let her make the decision on which is more comfotable! I have to get her on the open road though as she's a nervous nelly driving in the big city, so she won't really be comfortable no matter what while in the city

LiQiCE

Never hurts to ask the dealer if you can take an extended test drive. I've been offered to take cars home for 24 hours to test drive them to my heart's desire - have never taken them up on the offer since I'm paranoid about what would happen if I got into an accident or something.

I was able to drive my wife's MDX all the way back to my house (about a 20 minute drive each way - mostly highway driving) because I was concerned it wouldn't fit in our garage and told them I would only buy the car if it fit in the garage. Luckily it fit!

jjsC5

I agree. My BMW dealer recently told me I could take a 535 for a day.

Jmark

Well the back to back test of the two vehicles is complete.
Took my wife on a couple hour long rides in both vehicles on a full slate of various driving conditions from gravel, tight bumpy curve, high speed curves, etc.

Finally analysis was.
TLX was a quieter car overall. Not by much and I wonder how much of that is ANC? I liked being able to hear the growl of the engine on the GS.

Ride in TLX was softer. Very little tire slap on tarred roads.

GS350 handled better in tight bumpy curves. Also felt better in high speed on/off ramps. Especially when in sport+, which stiffens up the suspension.

GS seats are more comfortable, softer pan and 18 way adjustable on both sides of car.

GS tranny works as expected all the time, while the TLX ???

GS trunk fit our travel luggage ok, about the same as my TL. The TLX narrows towards the front of the car resulting in jammed in luggage.

Liked the GS info./navi better. No 3d maps but larger screen and controls were more to my liking. HUD is cool and somewhat useful. Entering all those letters manually on the CND TLX is silly, this day and age.

Interior of GS is much more refined, roomier and thus more appealing to me.

TLX has all the bells and whistles in the Elite, the GS lacks adaptive cruise and parking sensors.

Better tires and nicer rims on the GS.

Obviously several of these items are subjective.

The overall value proposition (MSRP) goes to the TLX ELITE at just over $48k with the GS at $68k. With the TLX being a 2015 and the GS being a 2104.

So I ended up buying a Silver GS350 Tech. The dealer knocked off around $11k off MSRP so the GS ended up costing $8k more than the TLX! For only $8k more the GS was the clear winner in my books. I know it's also a year older lol, but I plan to keep the car for 10 years so the model year wasn't a big deal.

A HUGE thank you to all those that helped bring me to this decision.

Although I really did want to like the TLX those last two test drives had me quite concerned about the tranny and high speed handling ( especially out of that dip I've mentioned).
When I put my foot into it, I want to feel and hear the power come on NOW and the TLX, well it just wasn't doing that on a consistent basis. I'm confident Acura will eventually fix this issue. But will it be this year with software, or next year with some sort of upgrade or fix?

Tony Pac

Congrats! enjoy your GS

BEAR-AvHistory

Congrats & best of luck with your new car.

jjsC5

Congrats. We love our GS.

ostrich

Great choice! Congrats!!!

Rocketsfan

Congrats Jmark. Hopefully the car will treat you well during another decade of ownership. It's really a nice car and I was tempted to buy one could I have gotten one a bit cheaper, but in the end, we all value "value" differently and ultimately it's what we want for what price that matters. Enjoy!

Stew4HD

Congrats on your choice! Did you get HUD, Mark Levinson, etc?

Jmark

Yup, you bet everything except parking sensors and adaptive cruise control, which is is the tech+ package. Would have liked the parking sensors, but not worth $2k

Interesting enough the ML stereo didn't want to play my Eagles DTS Disk?
The TLX had problems with it as well, so the salesman is buying me a new disk.

Unhaggle.com was my ticket to getting such a good price. We worked from invoice price instead of MSRP. Which was a different experience!

weather

To me, if the TLX/ILX won't excite me in the, chances are I'll end up with the IS350 F sport which I know is not in the same category but oh well. I think the F will be quite fun to drive too. I will see what the 2016 ILX MMC looks like because I'd hate to get the same model as the one we have (except with the engine/tranny change).

I haven't ruled out the TLX yet, I will give it another chance and styling wise, I prefer the TLX (exterior) but I love the wheels of the IS 350 F - Simply gorgeous. I am a very tiny guy so the interior is roomy enough for me although a little bit cramped at the foot well on the driver side but no car is perfect.

So I guess my homework is now on.....test driving the ILX 2.4, TLX and IS350

LiQiCE

Congrats on your purchase! I really love my GS, I hope you do too.

I recently saw an IS350 F-Sport and personally I really like the look of the car. It definitely stands out but not in a bad way IMHO.

ScottLong

I really love the TLX but I don't think this is a fair comparison. All things being equal, the GS really beats the TLX V6 in almost every single way. But the GS is also much more expensive, so it's not really a apples to apples battle. The Lexus GS 350 F SPORT is widely considered to be 'best in class' or close to the very top of it. Even BMW Magazines have stated the GS is more of a 'driver's car' than the 5 Series.

The bottom line is this:
Is the GS 10,000+USD better than the TLX? No.
But neither is the 5 Series or the E Class or the A6.
If you were to choose between a free fully loaded GS 350 F SPORT or a TLX V6?
I think most of America will choose the Lexus GS.

ScottLong

Nvm......... I did not read the thread(only the title), looks like he already purchased the GS.
lol...