Jmark

Had a chance to test drive all the cars that appealed to me. RLX, TLX, A6, 435i, and GS350. All were AWD's except the Acura's.

I've narrowed it down to the Lexus GS350 AWD or TLX AWD, mainly because none of them said "this is absolutely the one". I still like my low mileage 05' 3G TL, but it's time to sell it while I can still get a decent price for it.

One of my key criteria was to be able to get the vehicle serviced locally.
We have an Acura dealer in town and was told by Lexus that I can service my car locally at the Toyota dealership (which I verfied).

The top of line Lexus (Techonogly Plus Pkg.) is about $18k more than the TLX, and I can drop that $5k if I get a 2014 model ( CND ).

So is the Lexus worth $18k more? That's the question I'm trying to resolve.

Thoughts?

Stew4HD

Weeeeeeeell, I traded a '12 TL for a GS350 F-Sport. I loved it at first but when the shine wore off, so to speak, I had buyer's remorse. I don't normally get that but I did with that car. it is very nice car, no doubt. In the end, to me, having HUD was not worth the extra price. I was expecting the TLX to be out at that time but was pulled back. I find that the TLX is a better value and has most of the same goodies as the GS350.

So, when I was offered a chance to hand over my lease to another, I waved bye bye.

I understand your dilemma. Good luck with your decision making. You can't go wrong either way

ttribe

All else being equal, I prefer the GS to the TLX. That being said, I don't know that it's $13k-$18k better. In fact, I'm pretty sure it isn't.

Jmark

Thanks Stew, funny you bring up the HUD as the Acura DUDE I'm dealing with tells me today the TLX has a HUD! Well I never saw it on any of my test drives and didn't have the time nor patience to speak to this dork today, but did notice a slot in the dash where one would expect a HUD.
Does the TLX Elite have a HUD? (I don't think so)
So what brought on your buyers remorse? Was it just the difference in price?
What did you like better on the GS350?

I didn't get to spend a lot of time in the GS350, but my first impression was that I like the interior better(more refined IMO), the stereo system (multi CD) as I've been an Audiophile for a lot of years and do not like listening to compressed sound. The DVD-A in my 3G is absolutely FANTASTIC sounding. Also the seats were more comfortable, I think they were 18 way, with bolster adjustment and nice 4 way adjustable lumbar support.

But the Acura TLX does seem to have a lot more value to it.And when you get to the point in life where you pay cash and see retirement on the horizon, value is important!

BEAR-AvHistory

Tough call but I don't think you are comparing Apples to Apples in this case. Its value for the dollar vs luxury. If we were sensible we would all be driving Civics & Corollas.

LiQiCE

I think you need to test drive both back to back and see which you prefer.

I have a 2014 GS350 AWD F-Sport, and I really love the car.

I've test driven the TLX V6 FWD (Tech) - I won't try to compare the AWD GS350 to the FWD TLX in terms of driving since I haven't driven the SH-AWD, but I think I can speak to the infotainment and things like that since I do also own a 2014 MDX Tech w/Ent, and the infotainment systems are virtually the same if not identical, so some of my comments come from experience with the MDX infotainment system.

A few pro's / con's for the GS350 (features the TLX doesn't have or where it is better than the TLX imho ):
Pros -
1. Adjustable side bolstering - you can adjust the side bolstering how you like - for me, I like the seat to hug me so when I'm going around corners I'm not sliding around.

2. The voice input for navigation (2015 GSs supposedly get a new navigation unit which will allow you to speak the entire address at once) - the GS350 is more accurate at address input and less annoying. The Acura system requires you to press the voice button, say the word "city" then press it again and tell it the city of the address you want to goto. The GS350 has a defeatable voice prompt to tell you what it is looking for, but if you turn it off, you just say the city, then the street, then the house number then set as destination. It works better, plain and simple. Both the Acura and Lexus infotainment systems disable input via the touchscreen (Acura) or remote touch (Lexus). With Lexus you can install an inexpensive mod to defeat the lockout for remote touch and enable DVD playback while driving on the large part of that nice big 12" screen, one does not yet exist for Acura's but that could change).

Oh the MDX Infotainment system lags like crazy too - I'm not going to tell you the TLX one will do this too, because they may have fixed it, but there are times when you are simply trying to change from one radio source to another and the touchscreen simply stops responding for a good 30 seconds - really annoying.

3. Power folding side view mirrors are available on the GS350, I think this is available for you in the CDN spec TLX, but it is not available in USDM spec TLX's - so maybe a moot point for you.

4. The knob selector for Eco/Normal/Sport/Sport+ mode is a lot better than the TLX's single IDS button.

5. Overall, the GS has more buttons for the most important features, the TLX went from way too many buttons (in the 4G TL) to too few. I feel like the GS is a good balance. For example, there is no knob to tune the radio and Heated / Ventilated seats are controlled by the touchscreen on the TLX (while they are a buttons on the GS). The GS also has an auto mode for the heated / ventilated seats which will turn on the heat / ventilation based on the temperature setting and will dynamically adjust as it reaches the desired temp.

6. Others may disagree, but I will say the interior materials used in the GS are at least a notch or two above the TLX's materials. There are tons of little things that as you use the car you will learn to appreciate, the metal knobs when you turn up the volume on the radio, the piece between the seats and the center console - so if you drop something, it doesn't disappear forever, there is a soft cushion to the bottom of the storage compartments on the side of the doors. There are some areas where things aren't as nice as they could be - like some of the steering wheel controls don't feel as nice.

7. The "IDS" system in the Lexus GS350 can alter steering response, throttle response and also suspension (Adaptive Variable Suspension) - the TLX does not have this. This allows the GS to dynamically adjust the suspension as you're driving.

8. You can control the gear you're in through both paddle shifters and the stick.

9. We don't know performance numbers on the TLX SH-AWD yet, but the GS350 has been highly regarded in terms of its performance. I will say I really enjoy putting the car into Sport+ and taking the car around some bends. For example: Six-Cylinder Midsize Luxury Sedan Comparison - Audi A6, BMW 535i, Lexus GS 350, Infiniti M37 - Motor Trend

And here is a video from SpeedTV - this is the kind of thing I don't think you'll see them doing with a TLX.:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7z3ZMbeUgdU#t=862

Cons:
1. Gas mileage - gas mileage on the GS350 AWD is not very good - I average around 20-22mpg in mixed driving, you'll likely see better gas mileage in the TLX.

2. The price of course, it seems in Canada the price difference is even greater.

3. No sunglass holder where the map lights are in the GS.

I know I don't have a lot of cons here, but I don't think the GS leaves a lot to be desired in comparison to the TLX - unless of course you're going with a less than fully loaded GS (like mine), then there are features you're missing compared to the TLX. A lot of them are nanny features though, do you really need them? LKAS and CMBS are cool - but not necessary in my opinion.

Styling wise, you've really got to decide on your own. Acura's power plenum, or Lexus's Spindle Grill? Personally for me, the Spindle Grill grew on me over time, while Acura's power plenum - even in its more toned down styling on the TLX is still not for me.

Overall - if we're going down the value path, it probably isn't worth the extra money - but along those same lines then the TLX probably isn't worth the extra money over a more economical car like a Civic or Accord.

Ignoring price for a second - I think a lot of people would take the GS over the TLX.

I will say you will miss out on part of the Lexus experience if you service the car at Toyota - you won't in the TLX. My Lexus dealer has 3 different lounge areas - one is a home movie theater style setup, its pretty cool and you always get a loaner at Lexus for longer service which you probably won't get at Toyota.

As an aside - Stew's opinion will likely be on the other side of the fence from mine.

Sorry for the long post - hope you find it useful.

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

LiQiCE

Oh, one other nitpick - and TLX owners can confirm if this is true on the TLX but it has happened to me a lot on the MDX -

The keyless entry requires you to touch the door handle to unlock the door before you pull the handle to open the door. If I try to open the door immediately, the door isn't unlocked yet and I have to try to open it again.

On my GS, I can simply open the door and it unlocks immediately and opens. This was also true on my 2011 ES, and my parent's 2012 Toyota Avalon. I don't have another Acura with keyless entry to compare with.

Stew4HD

You need only touch the inside of the door handle for it to unlock

LiQiCE

Right - but there is a delay at least on my MDX, so if I grab the door handle and pull right away, on the MDX it isn't unlocked yet. It has beeped to indicate that it unlocked, but it isn't open at the time I pull the door handle. I have to pull a second time while the GS always is open when I pull the handle.

It is like the response time to unlock the doors on the GS is faster than the MDX. If I hesitate an extra 1/2 second before pulling the door on the MDX then it is open, but if I do the same thing I do with the GS and just grab the handle and open it, it doesn't work.

I'd be interested to see if any TLX owners have experienced something similar.

Stew4HD

I'd say it will do it immediately 95% of the time.. every once in a while it'll have that delay and f-me up.

blacktsxwagon

As a small nitpick, the TLX actually has an auto function for the seat heat/ventilation

Jmark

LiQice, thanks for the very thought out and well written response!

And you have a point about the dealership experience! The price of all that pampering is included in the car, might as well use it.

The TLX Elite does have some nice features. Heated windshield, heated rear seats, folding mirrors, heated steering wheel ( US as well?),two remote start fobs.
And there is no doubt the TLX provides excellent value! The price on the SH-AWD Elite I looked at today was $47,490 (CND) and without any charges. Destination charge adds another $2000 to the car.

jjsC5

We have a 2014 GS with the luxury and ML stereo. It is an incredibly refined car that has impeccable manners. It is my wife's car. An F Sport for myself is actually on my short list to replace my BMW. I have a preference for RWD, so that is a plus for me. I admit though that much of the difference is subjective. But as a 50 year car nut (almost 62 years old) I reserve the right to make subjective decisions!

Rocketsfan

First of all, if you're asking "is it worth the extra $" to you, you probably already know the answer. I somewhat considered a GS with the way they were dealing on them, but, from what I recall, it was still more than I wanted to spend by the time I added what I wanted as options.
I believe the RLX has a HUD, but they may also be referring to a flashing light/lens combo located right where the dash joins the windshield in front of the passenger. CMBS uses it to flash lights at the driver to wake them up and hit the brakes. lol. I think they refer to it as a "head-up warning". I wouldn't really call that a HUD. Like I said, maybe the guy is confusing the TLX with the RLX.

ostrich

I loved the GS 350 AWD F Sport too! In fact, I loved it so much that I almost got one. I particularly loved the interior which was absolutely beautiful. However, the driving experience, while nice, was not all that special. What really was the deal breaker was the fact that it did not have fold-down rear seats. I found the lack of fold-down rear seat to be the biggest issue with my 4G TL SH-AWD Elite. So it would make no sense to get another sedan without that feature. At that point, I just didn't look at it anymore.

I am sure that the overall Lexus dealership/service experience would probably be superior to Acura's. If money is not a problem and you do not mind not having the fold down rear seat, go with the GS. I am pretty sure that the GS/TLX difference is not worth $13K myself but that is a very personal decision.

BTW, I forgot to mention one thing - the F Sport version of the GS 350 AWD does NOT have some luxury features that the other GS trims or the TLX SH-AWD Elite do have. It's a bit of an issue for me personally, as I would not go with anything but the F Sport (and even the F Sport is a little bit on the soft side for me) but that also means that I would not be able to have some other luxury features that I had wanted.

Jmark

Thank You all for your valuable input! And in such a civil manner

I think you hit the nail on the head BEAR! If I were being totally sensible I'd keep my current '05 3G TL that runs like a top and only has 76,000 miles on it.

But here I am looking at a new vehicle? Hmmm.....

jjsC5

So does the GS.

Glashub

There is some serious nitpicking going on here. For me, it comes down to psychology. Let me explain. I fell in love with the TX because it gave me a luxury feeling car with a cockpit. I loved the cockpit feel which created a "drivers" experience. Like even though I had some luxury -- I could go toss the TL around. I was debating between the GS and the IS. The GS is very nice but the interior feels cavernous. Maybe not but it felt that way. I came from a 2012 Genesis which mimics the GS in a lot of ways and it was more oriented towards luxury than driving. Once you own a TL -- you get used to everything being right at hand -- no leaning -- no taking the eyes off the road and searching. The TLX looks a lot like the TL interior except for the wild card -- the dual screens. Although the GS is just a wee bit slower than the IS -- it felt a lot slower psychologically. A car that size needs a V8 like the Tau. Finally, the minute the IS hit the showroom floor -- love it or hate it -- the cohesive styling of the IS made very apparent the flaws in the GS design. It looks like a staid car with some wildness bolted on the rear and front. To me. This is my opinion. I mean no disrespect to GS owners. I chose the IS because it mimics the TL cockpit drivers oriented cockpit of the TL. It seems the TLX has hit a fine balance where you feel like you can have some fun, feel like you're driving a "sports" car and get a lot of goodies to boot.

shaymasdaddy

Don't get the GS. It is a nice car but it won't be as engaging to drive as the TLX SH-AWD or the 4G TL SH-AWD.

TeamAcura

I'd take the GS over the TLX if pricing was not an issue. Better comparison would be the IS 350 F-Sport AWD vs. the TLX SH-AWD. The pricing is similiar and they're in the same class. I love the new IS though. It's a sweet looking car. Design is very radical compared to the TLX which is bland by comparison.

jjsC5

Have you driven the current generation GS with either F Sport or Luxury Package? The car is now a true "drivers car". We replaced a 2102 SH AWD with 19 inch wheels with our 2014 GS. I agree the TL felt a little sportier than the new GS, but not buy much. But the GS also doesn't feel as harsh and noisy as that car did.

The GS feels like what I wish my BMW M Sport would feel like. Lexus has come a very long way with that car, and I know the at because I had a 2010 GS.

LiQiCE

I really have to laugh here - because the GS is not a big car by any means. A car "that size" needs a V8? It is nowhere near the size of the Genesis. In fact if you look at the dimensions, the GS and the TLX are not that far apart, in fact they're less than an inch apart in exterior dimensions:

Length (GS / TLX) - 190.7" / 190.3"
Width (GS / TLX) - 72.4" / 73"
Height (GS / TLX) - 57.3" / 57"
Interior Volume (GS / TLX) - 113 cu. ft. / 107.6 cu. ft.

I'm not going to go all the way through all the interior dimensions - but they are all close. You can look here if you want to see them all, they are all roughly within 1" of each other (except for 2nd row legroom): 2014 Lexus GS 350 Sedan vs 2015 Acura TLX Advance Package 4dr Sedan (3.5L 6cyl 9...

I'm pretty sure the GS AWD's 0-60 of 5.7 seconds is going to be competitive if not better than the TLX's SH-AWD 0-60.

I'm also sure if you owned a GS, you would get used to the interior and where everything is. I never find myself having to reach or search for anything.

I really think the problem may be with comparing the IS and the GS, because the IS really is smaller than both the TLX and GS - and coming from an IS and sitting in a GS - you might feel it is "cavernous". I would also argue that while the IS is probably "sportier" than the GS, the GS is not geared more towards luxury like the Genesis. The GS may have more luxury features than the IS but the GS is more of a Luxury Sports Sedan than the Genesis.

@Jmark - One other thing I thought of, the GS has double paned glass when you get the Luxury or the Cold Weather package, which I assume you would get being in Canada. The double paned glass prevents the windows from fogging but also adds a bit more isolation (reduces wind noise).

If you get the Luxury package you get Adaptive Front lighting, so the headlights turn the direction you are going.

16-way power adjustable seats in the F-Sport, 18-way in the Luxury model.

Finally, these last points may simply be for bragging rights or in your head and in normal day to day driving may not make a huge difference - but the GS is a RWD biased and Double Wishbone suspension car, while the TLX is FWD and uses MacPherson struts. To some people these are big differentiators, to others it may not mean jack.

You can say that all of these things are nit-picks and insignificant, but as you start to put them all together - you need to decide whether it is worth the money.

Ultimately from a strictly value standpoint, it probably doesn't add up - but everything together might become important to you (I bet for some, the added adjustability of the seats on long drives might be a life saver).

saturno_v

I did drive a FWD TLX V6, since the SH-AWD is still not around.

We did buy this month my wife new car and the choice was ultimately between a Lexus GS 350 F-Sport (the IS was just too small) and the Infiniti Q50 Sport AWD...we did eventually go with the Infiniti.


I had the chance to drive the GS extensively.

You are comparing two completely different cars, possibly 2 whole segments apart from each other.

The TLX cannot touch the GS in terms of luxury and refinement (not even close) or sportiness..the SH-AWD may close the gap on the sportiness side though.

Obviously there is a significant price difference between the two even considering the recent aggressive pricing for the GS from Lexus (in September you could get incredible deals on the GS).

Glashub

I had to laugh (dig) when I started reading your post because I didn't have to read very much to to see that you missed or failed to comprehend what I was trying to say. As far as owning the GS -- I had the opportunity -- and passed. Owning a GS ain't no big thang -- ain't like it confers some special status.

Hey, have you ever owned a TL?

I went in my Genesis to test drive the GS first. The GS felt as big as the Genesis. Clearly you didn't read my whole post prior to deciding to laugh at me. Contempt prior to investigation is the surest path to ongoing ignorance.

I stand by what I wrote which was a very fair post. I even go out of my way to write that it's my opinion and I mean no offense to GS owners.

I drove a 2013 GS for an hour all over LA. It feels big. The dash layout requires leaning to reach some controls. It is not ergonomically friendly like a TL or IS. That's the point. So much of it is perception and psychology.

jjsC5

What neither of you addressed is the weight difference between the current GS and the new (2015) Genesis. The GS is about 3800 lbs - several hundred pounds less than the GS. The IS is only 100lbs lighter than a GS.

I don't have any problem with anyone not liking a car for whatever reason, but as the owner of a 2014 GS and having owned quite a few other nice sedans - such as TLs, my current BMW 550 and several others, I can tell you that the GS is the most refined car I have ever driven, including my $75,000 BMW. What a car is worth to someone is their business whether it be for features, performance or just subjective reasons.

LiQiCE

Sorry didn't mean I was laughing at you, just that I thought it was funny you saying the GS is the size of the Genesis, despite you feeling it is big, dimensionally it isn't. That was my point, obviously we have differing opinions on how big it 'feels'.

I have actually owned a TL but it was a 2g TL Type S.

JDMaccord3.5

If money is not an issue... I'll go with the GS

saturno_v

I have to agree with you...the GS is incredibly refined, the fit and finish it's just superb.
I just come back this week from Europe where I rented a BMW 520d...granted this was a rental so pretty bare bone in terms of equipment but the fit and finish was quite disappointing...I believe the BMWs built for the US have a bit higher grade plastic or at least this is my impression after 2 weeks with this Bimmer rental...frankly the new Impala cabin, a common rental here in North America, felt maybe even more luxurious.

shaymasdaddy

Excellent point. Totally agree.

Jmark

Another great reply!
A couple of points that caught my attention. In the comparison link you posted they call the TLX a compact luxury vehicle and the GS midsize. The cars are almost identical in size so I'm not sure how they arrived at that?

From a pure hardware value proposition the TLX seems to be a clear winner. Oh and the TLX has a triple pane windshield !
From an interior and styling point of view I like the GS. But for $20k more in CND$ I'm finding it tough to justify. Although the seats in the GS are much more comfortable, in large part due to all the settings available only in the Luxury Package. Seating is a key element for me as both the wife and I have back issues I'm paying now for all those crazy stunts that didn't work out well as as teenager lol
If the TLX had an upgraded seating option I belive I would have put my money down already on the TLX SH-AWD. But that's not the case, so I'm still contemplating...

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

The TLX is usually pitched against the IS, Q50, A4, 3 series, C Class. The GS is a competitor against RLX, E Class, A6, 5 series, etc.

LiQiCE

So compact versus midsize is defined by EPA ratings on interior volume.

You can find the definitions here: Vehicle size class - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Compact is 100-109.9 cu. ft. of interior volume, Midsize is 110-119.9 cu.ft.

So the TLX with 107.6 cu ft. of interior space falls below 109.9 cu ft - therefore it is considered a compact car. The GS350 with 113 cu ft falls into the Midsize category.

I agree with you that $20k CDN is a tough pill to swallow. For me, the price difference was ~$45K US for the TLX SH-AWD (MSRP) if I pre-ordered one versus ~52K US for the GS350 F-Sport AWD (not fully loaded though). Still a $7K difference, but that is an easier pill to swallow than $20K.

Have you tried negotiating yet on the GS? Lexus in the USA has had some really good deals on the GS350. When I bought, I got a $1750 rebate (on leases) and dealers were willing to go below invoice price since it is technically last year's model. I leased only because it will cost me less thanks to the rebate to lease the car for 27 months and buy the car after the lease than it would have to buy the car and finance it for 60 months @ 0.9%.

Right now, the 2014 GS has a $2200 rebate in the US (on leases). I'm not sure if CDN dealers are dealing at all on price - but I wouldn't be surprised if they are as well.

Interesting about the triple paned glass on the TLX - I didn't know that was the case. That is a great feature, especially on a ~$30K TLX.

Do you have anymore info on that? I tried doing a quick google search but couldn't find anything about it. I know it has an "acoustic glass" windshield, but I don't know if that means it is triple paned?

I equally cannot find much (except on ClubLexus) about the Double Paned glass on the GS350 - so maybe it just isn't an important feature to tout, although I'm surprised about this since having Double Paned glass means the glass won't fog up and it also adds to the sound insulation / helps eliminate wind noise.

Maybe you're thinking triple sealed doors on the TLX - that comes from the expanding foam they put into the doors which gives the TLX its quiet ride.

Jmark

LiQice, Canadian Lexus dealers are offering some good discounts right now on the 2014's
$5k off the GS350 and $6k off the F-Sport. There's a lot of stock and choice of colours in the Fsport, but sadly only a couple colors left on the GS350 Luxury. They do have a demo car in silver with 3500km on it and it will be for sale as soon as a 2015 arrives ( second wk Oct.)
I searched for the article that mentioned triple pane glass, and couldn't find anything either? Maybe it was my imagination or could be just the CND model with heated windshield?
If I could get the Demo for $3k less then the current offer that would bring the car to around $8k delta, all in. Which makes it much more palatable !

LiQiCE

Definitely agree - $8k in my opinion would be worth it - especially for the Luxury model. The Luxury model has some great extra features too including heated rear seats (which the TLX has too in Canada), and rear audio / HVAC controls (which the TLX does not have I don't think).

Notably, the 2015 GS is now showing up on the Lexus.com website and adds Atomic Silver as a color, and HD Traffic and Weather (totally free) instead of XM Traffic and Weather (requires a subscription). I suspect - since every other Lexus with HD Traffic & Weather has it - that this also means the Infotainment system has been upgraded and uses an SD Card for map updates (which hopefully means no trips to the dealer for map updates) and most importantly natural language voice recognition for address input (say the entire address at once and the navigation system will figure it out).

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Are you looking at the GS350 AWD with Luxury package ($56k with $5k discount)? If so, then you based on what I see in the feature list, wouldn't that be more comparable to the TLX SH-AWD ($40k)?

Looking at the Lexus Canada website, I'm a bit confused as to whether the luxury package incldues navi or not. If so, then that would be more comparable to the TLX SH-AWD Tech ($44k).

We are looking at $12-$16k difference here.

I think the TLX Advance AWD would be more comparable to the GS350 Tech pkg.

LiQiCE

Not sure how Canada does it, but in the USA, you cannot find a GS350 w/o Navigation despite it being an option on the website. Every GS350, even the Premium model has navigation. The Luxury Package definitely has Navigation.

If Lexus.ca's website is anything like the Lexus.com website, the custom build & price is horrible and it doesn't represent the way you actually can configure the car. For example, Lexus.com's website says you cannot get an F-Sport model with the Mark Levinson upgraded radio - but you can, the website just doesn't offer it as an option.

Finding a car with the exact options you want on the lot is difficult and ordering one from the factory is the only way to get everything you want unless you just want the standard Blind Spot Monitoring and Park Assist w/Rear Cross Traffic Alert. The GS350 is also configured differently based on region. In the Northeast US for example, we don't get the RWD model at all only the AWD model.

Looks like in Canada you have a bunch of different packages on the website - but like Lexus USA, not sure if thats the way you would actually order it / buy it.

From a price perspective though - I think Jmark is saying the $8k difference is his discounted price on a GS350 versus likely having to pay MSRP on a TLX SH-AWD since they're so new (and even at invoice price there is not a lot of discount off MSRP).

jjsC5

I'm going to have to go check ours. If it has heated rear seats I didn't know it.

LiQiCE

You know what - it might only come with the Luxury Package IF you also have the Cold Weather Package.

I know the cold weather package alone doesn't give you the rear heated seats because I have it on my F-Sport.

According to this though it only requires the Luxury Package:
http://pressroom.toyota.com/releases...specs.download

Ah - according to this it only can come with the Luxury package - hence the requirement, but it was an option on the Luxury package, so you might not have it if you have the Luxury package.

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/2014/...kages_options/

Confusing!

BTW- Here is the link to the 2015 GS350 product info - http://pressroom.toyota.com/releases...specs.download

New for 2015 -
- New 18x8 rims standard with 235/45R18 tires
- Support for Lexus Enform Remote (allows you to start/stop engine and HVAC remotely, remote door lock/unlock, Valet mode monitoring, vehicle finder, etc)
- Completely new (Gen 8) Infotainment system that supports "One shot" address input via voice, 3D Maps, Free HD Traffic & Weather updates

ostrich

Jmark, I am just curious about the GS350 Luxury trim - do you find the ride to be too soft? I even found the GS350 AWD F Sport to be a bit on the soft side for the ride, so I am wondering if the Luxury trim will be even much softer?

Also, this is just my personal opinion - the wood steering wheel in the Luxury trim is one of the biggest turn offs for me - I strongly dislike wood steering wheels as they look so OLD!!! LOL! It makes me feel like I am driving grand dad's car.... LOL!