AutoWeek First Drive Review
08-05-2014, 08:32 AM
#81
The target customer probably would own a Lexus (I would love the GS350 F-Sport), but might find it insensible to actually pay the premium when an Acura TL SHAWD is 90% the car for 75% the money.
I think it's also safe to say that the target customer is someone who probably doesn't put much weight into the prestige of the badge (I certainly don't), but simply wants a well-executed car with a good reputation for quality and resale value. As such, the fact that most Acuras are based on either the Accord or Civic is actually a strength, instead of a weakness. In fact, I would venture that the target owner is probably somewhat low-key, and would not be comfortable flaunting their wealth by buying a flashy car.
I would also love to own a 6-speed manual, but am too practically-minded to actually buy one, since I'm stuck in 90 minutes of commute stop-and-go traffic every day.
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08-05-2014, 09:18 AM
#82
There's mention that Acura engineers were able to convince management NOT to go with a CVT. OMG could you imagine that? They can hardly get regular trannys right. A lot of other cars with CVTs have issues (like Maximas) Another do or die decision that Acura got right, thank God.
BTW that review was very ambiguous, didn't even seem to be written by a typical automotive journalist/enthusiast. Almost like some editor from Rolling Stones or Reader's Digest wrote it.
BTW that review was very ambiguous, didn't even seem to be written by a typical automotive journalist/enthusiast. Almost like some editor from Rolling Stones or Reader's Digest wrote it.
Last edited by rockyfeller; 08-05-2014 at 09:23 AM.
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BEAR-AvHistory (08-05-2014)
08-05-2014, 03:41 PM
#83
Racer
I would put the Vigor, in the appealing area. it was a unique car at the time.
08-05-2014, 04:14 PM
#84
AcurAdmirer
For example, the NSX sold all of 8,997 units in the U . S. in its 14-year run, and only 18,685 worldwide. That's not even a blip on the radar screen of any other production vehicle, so it obviously didn't appeal to many people.
Your "less-appealing" RDX is on target to sell close to 50,000 units in the U. S. this year alone, and it and the MDX are leading the sales charts for Acura.
I personally wouldn't have an "appealing" Integra, although they sold almost 795,000 of them in its 16-year run. So it was popular with a lot of people.
I've had both an RL and my current RLX, and I find both of them appealing.
So "appealing" is obviously in the eye of the beholder. :wink:
.
.
08-05-2014, 07:08 PM
#85
Drifting
My dealer called when they got them in (this past weekend). I couldn't get there until last night. They had sold the 5 they had, but Acura gave them 2 for demo purposes only at launch.
One was a 4 cyl, the othe the V6 FWD Advance. Both were fun.
Coming from my '13 SH AWD, the FWD Advance felt faster by my "buttometer". I didn't feel any hesitation, at all. My guess is 0-60 on the 6 at around low to mid 5s. Add a second to that with the 4. Maybe press cars weren't production tuned, yet?
I looks much nicer in person than the pics I've seen. Particularly nice was the CBP with the "coffee:" interior....very classy looking. Transmissions were exemplary. Both will let you hit redline....in every gear if you want.
The suspension is where you feel the upgrade from the 4G. It's as good as anything I've driven....that includes A4/S4/A6, BMW 3 (and certainly better than a 5), Mercedes CLA/C/E.
Shutting the doors gives the "thunk" Mercedes is known for. High quality materials.
Seats are the same (which is a good thing). Didn't get a chance to play with the stereo. Assume it's still as good as the ELS in the 4G.
The 4 and 6 like to be wrung out, that's for sure.
Not sure what can touch the Advance.....with lane keeping, intelligent cruise, color OSD, remote start, sunroof, V6 (which sounds/feels butter smooth) for $42K. Similar performance, build, features, would cost $10K -$15K more in a comparable Audi, BMW, Infiniti, Benz or Lexus. Acura launching with $500 in accessory credits and $1,000 payment forgiveness. I seem to remember the sales person saying there was another $500 available through Honda Credit, too.
My dealer sold out of his 1st shipment within 24 hours. 2nd shipment due mid month is sold out, too.
He said he can sell the demos, but not for another few weeks.
Really nice car.
One was a 4 cyl, the othe the V6 FWD Advance. Both were fun.
Coming from my '13 SH AWD, the FWD Advance felt faster by my "buttometer". I didn't feel any hesitation, at all. My guess is 0-60 on the 6 at around low to mid 5s. Add a second to that with the 4. Maybe press cars weren't production tuned, yet?
I looks much nicer in person than the pics I've seen. Particularly nice was the CBP with the "coffee:" interior....very classy looking. Transmissions were exemplary. Both will let you hit redline....in every gear if you want.
The suspension is where you feel the upgrade from the 4G. It's as good as anything I've driven....that includes A4/S4/A6, BMW 3 (and certainly better than a 5), Mercedes CLA/C/E.
Shutting the doors gives the "thunk" Mercedes is known for. High quality materials.
Seats are the same (which is a good thing). Didn't get a chance to play with the stereo. Assume it's still as good as the ELS in the 4G.
The 4 and 6 like to be wrung out, that's for sure.
Not sure what can touch the Advance.....with lane keeping, intelligent cruise, color OSD, remote start, sunroof, V6 (which sounds/feels butter smooth) for $42K. Similar performance, build, features, would cost $10K -$15K more in a comparable Audi, BMW, Infiniti, Benz or Lexus. Acura launching with $500 in accessory credits and $1,000 payment forgiveness. I seem to remember the sales person saying there was another $500 available through Honda Credit, too.
My dealer sold out of his 1st shipment within 24 hours. 2nd shipment due mid month is sold out, too.
He said he can sell the demos, but not for another few weeks.
Really nice car.
Thanks. Sounds like a car designed for non-enthusiasts.
08-05-2014, 07:12 PM
#86
Drifting
There's mention that Acura engineers were able to convince management NOT to go with a CVT. OMG could you imagine that? They can hardly get regular trannys right. A lot of other cars with CVTs have issues (like Maximas) Another do or die decision that Acura got right, thank God.
BTW that review was very ambiguous, didn't even seem to be written by a typical automotive journalist/enthusiast. Almost like some editor from Rolling Stones or Reader's Digest wrote it.
BTW that review was very ambiguous, didn't even seem to be written by a typical automotive journalist/enthusiast. Almost like some editor from Rolling Stones or Reader's Digest wrote it.
I agree that it would have been a mistake to release this car with a CVT, but the CVT in the Accord has been very well-received. No big issues in the (almost) 2 years it's been out.
08-05-2014, 07:27 PM
#88
Drifting
^^ Right. That's the extent of it to my knowledge. All that said, however, I'm still not a fan of the CVTs.
08-06-2014, 08:50 PM
#90
Racer
Honda and Acura appear to target financially conservative (sensible) working-class individuals who heavily weigh practicality and reliability versus driving feel, styling, and subtlety. I would imagine that the target customer would probably like to drive an Audi or BMW (I love the BMW 5-series, but not the 3-series), but would probably find it insensible to actually own one, due to perceived unreliability and high cost of ownership.
The target customer probably would own a Lexus (I would love the GS350 F-Sport), but might find it insensible to actually pay the premium when an Acura TL SHAWD is 90% the car for 75% the money.
I think it's also safe to say that the target customer is someone who probably doesn't put much weight into the prestige of the badge (I certainly don't), but simply wants a well-executed car with a good reputation for quality and resale value. As such, the fact that most Acuras are based on either the Accord or Civic is actually a strength, instead of a weakness. In fact, I would venture that the target owner is probably somewhat low-key, and would not be comfortable flaunting their wealth by buying a flashy car.
I would also love to own a 6-speed manual, but am too practically-minded to actually buy one, since I'm stuck in 90 minutes of commute stop-and-go traffic every day.
The target customer probably would own a Lexus (I would love the GS350 F-Sport), but might find it insensible to actually pay the premium when an Acura TL SHAWD is 90% the car for 75% the money.
I think it's also safe to say that the target customer is someone who probably doesn't put much weight into the prestige of the badge (I certainly don't), but simply wants a well-executed car with a good reputation for quality and resale value. As such, the fact that most Acuras are based on either the Accord or Civic is actually a strength, instead of a weakness. In fact, I would venture that the target owner is probably somewhat low-key, and would not be comfortable flaunting their wealth by buying a flashy car.
I would also love to own a 6-speed manual, but am too practically-minded to actually buy one, since I'm stuck in 90 minutes of commute stop-and-go traffic every day.
Then I get 110% value of a Lexus for 75% of the price.
08-07-2014, 04:12 PM
#91
Racer
But we Really need the comparison test against the competition: BMW 335i,
ATS 3.6, IS350, A4 and Q50 to really see how it stacked up. The 4G didnt fair so well in the past.
The value of standard features and pricing is always a big plus for Acura, so I agree in part.
08-07-2014, 04:25 PM
#92
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There's mention that Acura engineers were able to convince management NOT to go with a CVT. OMG could you imagine that? They can hardly get regular trannys right. A lot of other cars with CVTs have issues (like Maximas) Another do or die decision that Acura got right, thank God.
BTW that review was very ambiguous, didn't even seem to be written by a typical automotive journalist/enthusiast. Almost like some editor from Rolling Stones or Reader's Digest wrote it.
BTW that review was very ambiguous, didn't even seem to be written by a typical automotive journalist/enthusiast. Almost like some editor from Rolling Stones or Reader's Digest wrote it.
My S2000 cures me of the 'boredom' though.
08-07-2014, 05:11 PM
#93
Drifting
The Lexus IS350 F sport knocked off the BMW F30 series, that was true feat in C&D. A Type S version of the TLX would be the best match.
But we Really need the comparison test against the competition: BMW 335i,
ATS 3.6, IS350, A4 and Q50 to really see how it stacked up. The 4G didnt fair so well in the past.
The value of standard features and pricing is always a big plus for Acura, so I agree in part.
But we Really need the comparison test against the competition: BMW 335i,
ATS 3.6, IS350, A4 and Q50 to really see how it stacked up. The 4G didnt fair so well in the past.
The value of standard features and pricing is always a big plus for Acura, so I agree in part.
The 4G 6MT tested very well against some of those (or similar) cars in several tests, especially on objective measures. Automobile, for example, ran the S4 (not the much lesser A4) against the 4G 6MT. On the road course, they ran essentially identical lap times. R&T ran a 4 car comparo and of course (as I recall) picked the 335 and did some mild bashing of the TL. (E.g., brake size on TL too small). But then checking the stats, the TL out-braked most, if not all, of the cars. It will be interesting to see if the TLX (SHAWD) can hang with the cars you mention, especially given the absence of an MT.
08-08-2014, 02:10 PM
#94
Racer
08-08-2014, 03:26 PM
#95
Racer
The 4G 6MT tested very well against some of those (or similar) cars in several tests, especially on objective measures. Automobile, for example, ran the S4 (not the much lesser A4) against the 4G 6MT. On the road course, they ran essentially identical lap times. R&T ran a 4 car comparo and of course (as I recall) picked the 335 and did some mild bashing of the TL. (E.g., brake size on TL too small). But then checking the stats, the TL out-braked most, if not all, of the cars. It will be interesting to see if the TLX (SHAWD) can hang with the cars you mention, especially given the absence of an MT.
looks like the TLX has taking a step back vs the 4G braking wise...
08-08-2014, 05:30 PM
#96
Drifting
Yes, the 4G stops NOW, especially with summer tires. It would be a shame if they have gone backwards on braking performance. From the reviews of the TLX, it seems like it will be a sales winner. But it seems Acura went more "mainstream" with it compared to the 4G (skinnier tires, no HPT option (yet), etc.). When the 4G MT came out, Acura set up a comparo at a race track with the 3 series (RWD and AWD), G37, and a couple others. No track comparos for this introduction, evidently.
08-08-2014, 05:49 PM
#97
Burning Brakes
The Lexus IS350 F sport knocked off the BMW F30 series, that was true feat in C&D. A Type S version of the TLX would be the best match.
But we Really need the comparison test against the competition: BMW 335i,
ATS 3.6, IS350, A4 and Q50 to really see how it stacked up. The 4G didnt fair so well in the past.
The value of standard features and pricing is always a big plus for Acura, so I agree in part.
But we Really need the comparison test against the competition: BMW 335i,
ATS 3.6, IS350, A4 and Q50 to really see how it stacked up. The 4G didnt fair so well in the past.
The value of standard features and pricing is always a big plus for Acura, so I agree in part.
08-08-2014, 06:42 PM
#98
Suzuka Master
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About the small brakes. IIRC the sidebar or a response to the letters to the editor on the brakes was it stopped very well, better than everybody else, one time. On the road course segments of the test the Acura brakes caused them to have to rest the car to cool the brakes when the others kept going.
Most likely does not matter on the street in normal driving.
Still it did well on a very set of tight courses designed for low speed handling taking away the faster cars natural advantage on a road course. C&D said they did not want the faster cars to run away with the test & were trying to create a lot of Forum fodder.
Which they did.
Most likely does not matter on the street in normal driving.
Still it did well on a very set of tight courses designed for low speed handling taking away the faster cars natural advantage on a road course. C&D said they did not want the faster cars to run away with the test & were trying to create a lot of Forum fodder.
Which they did.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 08-08-2014 at 06:47 PM.
08-09-2014, 12:07 AM
#99
Yes, the 4G stops NOW, especially with summer tires. It would be a shame if they have gone backwards on braking performance. From the reviews of the TLX, it seems like it will be a sales winner. But it seems Acura went more "mainstream" with it compared to the 4G (skinnier tires, no HPT option (yet), etc.). When the 4G MT came out, Acura set up a comparo at a race track with the 3 series (RWD and AWD), G37, and a couple others. No track comparos for this introduction, evidently.
4G TL: 12.6" Front, 13.2" Rear
TLX: 12.6" Front, 12.2" Rear
Why are the rear brakes on the TLX 1" smaller than the 4G TL? Cost cutting? Anyhow, I wouldn't be surprised if lots of TLX owners start to complain about pulsating brakes due to warped rotors, which is, unfortunately, a Honda signature.
08-09-2014, 12:12 AM
#100
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I totally agree. Brake specs straight from Acura:
4G TL: 12.6" Front, 13.2" Rear
TLX: 12.6" Front, 12.2" Rear
Why are the rear brakes on the TLX 1" smaller than the 4G TL? Cost cutting? Anyhow, I wouldn't be surprised if lots of TLX owners start to complain about pulsating brakes due to warped rotors, which is, unfortunately, a Honda signature.
4G TL: 12.6" Front, 13.2" Rear
TLX: 12.6" Front, 12.2" Rear
Why are the rear brakes on the TLX 1" smaller than the 4G TL? Cost cutting? Anyhow, I wouldn't be surprised if lots of TLX owners start to complain about pulsating brakes due to warped rotors, which is, unfortunately, a Honda signature.
08-09-2014, 06:43 AM
#101
Three Wheelin'
Honda and Acura appear to target financially conservative (sensible) working-class individuals who heavily weigh practicality and reliability versus driving feel, styling, and subtlety. I would imagine that the target customer would probably like to drive an Audi or BMW (I love the BMW 5-series, but not the 3-series), but would probably find it insensible to actually own one, due to perceived unreliability and high cost of ownership.
The target customer probably would own a Lexus (I would love the GS350 F-Sport), but might find it insensible to actually pay the premium when an Acura TL SHAWD is 90% the car for 75% the money.
I think it's also safe to say that the target customer is someone who probably doesn't put much weight into the prestige of the badge (I certainly don't), but simply wants a well-executed car with a good reputation for quality and resale value. As such, the fact that most Acuras are based on either the Accord or Civic is actually a strength, instead of a weakness. In fact, I would venture that the target owner is probably somewhat low-key, and would not be comfortable flaunting their wealth by buying a flashy car.
I would also love to own a 6-speed manual, but am too practically-minded to actually buy one, since I'm stuck in 90 minutes of commute stop-and-go traffic every day.
The target customer probably would own a Lexus (I would love the GS350 F-Sport), but might find it insensible to actually pay the premium when an Acura TL SHAWD is 90% the car for 75% the money.
I think it's also safe to say that the target customer is someone who probably doesn't put much weight into the prestige of the badge (I certainly don't), but simply wants a well-executed car with a good reputation for quality and resale value. As such, the fact that most Acuras are based on either the Accord or Civic is actually a strength, instead of a weakness. In fact, I would venture that the target owner is probably somewhat low-key, and would not be comfortable flaunting their wealth by buying a flashy car.
I would also love to own a 6-speed manual, but am too practically-minded to actually buy one, since I'm stuck in 90 minutes of commute stop-and-go traffic every day.
If Acura is happy with that model and it works for them I can't blame them. Unfortunately, their business model just doesn't work for me any more because other cars offer more interesting and exiting cars for enthusiasts like myself. At this point if I could not afford the cars I'm driving I might be comparing a new Acura to a used something else. But I still will give the new TLX a look as I'm only going by pictures and other peoples input right now.
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BEAR-AvHistory (08-09-2014)
08-09-2014, 07:25 AM
#102
Racer
08-09-2014, 08:52 AM
#104
4G TL SHAWD 6AT w/ Tech: 3982 lbs
TLX SHAWD 9AT w/ Tech: 3748 lbs.
So, we talking about a 234 lbs difference here, or a 5.8% weight reduction from the 4G. The difference does not sound like a notable weight reduction, despite being equal to about 1 person.
08-09-2014, 10:22 AM
#105
Burning Brakes
08-09-2014, 10:30 AM
#106
Burning Brakes
Still, I congratulate the engineers for winning one... Acura needs to be distinct from Honda.
S2000 <-- awesome. It, or any car with a good manual, will cure anything!
08-09-2014, 11:42 AM
#107
08-09-2014, 02:01 PM
#108
IMO, that's a lot of weight saved considering the car is also stronger (21% stiffer?) albeit a little smaller. There are other factors that influence this (gearing etc), but isn't it roughly 9 pounds saved equals one horsepower? If so, thats like getting 25 extra ponies.
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JTRADAR61 (08-09-2014)
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