BEAR-AvHistory

Then why all the anguish over the AutoWeek report & just wait till C&D gets the car etc? Go back to the 4G release numbers & its Deja vu all over again.

The exact same cases were made, tester suck, car was starting in 2nd gear & so on. Immediate defense within a few posts of the times & so on & on. Just because a few are not interested should not suggest its an unimportant number for a majority of the members.

Talk about any magazine test & the common thread with car that have performance pretentions is 0-60 & 1/4 mile, those numbers keep the magazines in business.

I would suggest you & Stew are in the minority on 0-60 etc, but a number of others do move to the not interested category when the numbers are not so good.

Plenty of posts about the car having only 290BHP in the past few months.

Just track all the pre-test posts on the TXL being quicker than the 4G even though it has less power because its lighter. No interest would equal no threads.

Stew4HD

I still believe that the number of people that think that is the most important factor is quite small. I am not talking about the people that frequent this site (or other car forums). I am talking about the general population, which makes up the much larger car buying audience than here.

I am not knocking those that find it important just wondering why it's so important for a cruiser sedan to be .5 seconds faster or slower. Who's racing these cars?

BEAR-AvHistory

^^^^^
Agree about the general public but I was talking about the people here. Take out the 8 posts by you, Dysonlu & me of the remaining 34 about 50%, (17) quick count, are about the acceleration numbers. Might not be the most important thing but its not a non-issue either.

weather

...well put me down as one that is not overly worried about hp, straight line acceleration or numbers of g's when cornering. I just want a car that has great looks, feels quick, handles well and is well priced.

WheelMcCoy

That was the old Consumer Reports. Check out their video of the FR-S:


CR also buys their own vehicles and can claim an independence Car and Driver cannot.

WheelMcCoy

Maybe that's the real reason why Autoweek pulled the story. It's not the embargo. It's not that the preview was poorly written (even though it was). It's that the tests for the 0-60 times weren't done correctly.

I'd wait for C&D. Or Edmunds. They do 0-60 test from a standing start and another with a 1 foot rollout.

For me, these numbers are for fun. 0 to 60 is is just one measure of many and, alone, does not define a car.

WheelMcCoy

I think SilverJ was saying the line separating luxury division from its parent company needs to be clear. Aside from being quieter, having leather, having more tech, that means Acuras are expected to be faster than Hondas.

EE4Life

Google cache of the original article:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...&client=safari

bbergero1181

the delay in hard acceleration could be from the brake lock feature they have. When you come to a stop you can take your foot off the brake and not roll. wouldn't be surprised if this confuses the computers when stomping the gas from a stop. Hope that is fixed on production models.

Rocket_man

The car is plenty fast for me, especially if I get the V6. But I'm more concerned about the 'up to 1 sec' delay when you step on the gas. When I step on the gas I want the car to move, not stare at me asking 'are you sure?' Not sure if it is the brake hold, or the new transmission, or was the car in Eco mode? I'll have to check it out myself but it sounds a little disappointing.

Yeah driving on the freeways here can be a little hectic, especially Beltway 8. But this place is so big, I'm just happy if traffic is moving. It sounds like the TLX might be a nice car for these freeways.

vbx

All 10 of them.

Stew4HD

WOW.. hate on!

You can't be serious to think that but I am guessing you actually do

Stew4HD

I drive the west I-10, Beltway 8 to 59 Southwest Speedway (from the beltway towards Sugar Land). I get off early enough that the traffic is usually flying

Glashub

This is like deja vu' all over again for me. I was one of the very 1st to buy the Lexus IS 350 (Fsport). Everyone hollering about what a mistake Lexus made. BMW, Audi, Infiniti all had batter acceleration numbers. They had better torque. The grill is ugly. The materials aren't weren't as nice.


Well, Lexus is crushing IS sales numbers. The IS is all over LA now. It is a hit. And irony of irony? I's say 95% of them are 250"s with the 204hp engine. I think most people, myself included, want a well balanced car. If I wanted kick ass straight line numbers I'd go all in on a Hemi.

BEAR-AvHistory

I think "crushing" is a little strong. Most things Lexus will sell well because its a Lexus. The rebadged Toyota Avalon - Lexus ES does very well at 6300 a month.

June 2014

Lexus IS - 4500
Audi A4 - 3000
3 series - 12,400

The TLX will sell better than the TL regardless of performance because its a much nicer looking car at a good price point. My original point was after all the hyping of performance on this site the TLX's first unattractive review has all the "performance does not matter" posts coming out. Funny thing is it was not even a quality review. Wonder if performance will get to matter again once C&D floggs the car for better numbers?

BEAR-AvHistory

IIRC most of the other cars are pretty well balanced just quicker overall.

Be interesting to see how the IS does at C&D/VIR Lightning Laps this year. It has been already been run but the info is embargoed till the release of the October C&D. Very good test of all round balanced performance.

Being a new model I am sure the IS will have been invited to attend.

LiQiCE

Should we start calling the TL/TLX, "the rebadged Honda Accord"?

The ES, being based on the same platform as the Avalon doesn't equate to being rebadged anymore than the TL or TLX should be called a rebadged Accord.

Glashub

@kevin, with all due respect, it could be argued that LA is the car capital of America. I'm not going to take the time to look up the numbers but anecdotally I see 2014 IS's all over now. I don't see too many 3 series anymore but I do see a growing number of 4 series. I would argue that the IS is a better balanced machine than the 3 series is today. I know you're a big German fan and my opinion matters little so I'll let just a few pros chime in --


http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...omparison-test


http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-revi...n-65-3-roa1013


Matt Farah at the Smoking Tire,

If the TLX does for Acura what the IS has done for Lexus has done then they'll have a winner. Also, do note that an intrinsic part of Japanese culture is "wa" harmony in all things -- including cars. The IS Fsport achieves that as a driving experience. Enough of everything to be a stellar driving experience on all surfaces.


Lexus is turning the tide and it is my hope Acura will too.

BEAR-AvHistory

Good tests, the Lexus did well. Have the magazines. Looks like BMW won all the actually measured ones starting, stopping, cornering, fuel economy etc & the Lexus did well enough the "feely" ones to get a good overall score, with the * at the final C&D score saying:

These objective scores are calculated from the vehicle's dimensions, capacities, rebates and extras, and/or test results. Actually with an "and/or test results" objective should say subjective.

Lightning Laps will be interesting to see how it stacks up in real life against the other 3 cars. As for the sales numbers believe what you want from the view in LA but the IS is not "crushing" the competition. Its in second place but lapped 3 times.

krichter1

Test Drive first impressions:

Being an owner of an '05 TL I've been waiting for the release in Chicagoland since it was announced. I took a test drive yesterday and IMO here are the highlights (and lowlights), as well trying to address some of the earlier comments or concerns read in this thread…

The seats are excellent and more comfortable & "contoury" than my '05 TL Navi (like they incorporated a top layer of memory foam). The new Espresso color with the burl wood accents (was told only avail in the Black or Copper models BTW), gave it a very sophisticated & elegant look.

The display in all white is very easy on the road during bright sunlight, but I still prefer my blue/white highlights on my '05. The added navigation display between the main dials is a very nice addition so as to not take your eyes of the center area (and road!). The Navi screen inset is very nice with crisp rez details (much better than my '05 which washes out at time during the day. As well the new thumb "wheel mouse" on each side of the steering wheel take a bit of getting used to but very cool and easy to use.

The drive is a dream and IMO very quiet… nearing Hybrid levels when cruising around town. Smooth as glass on rough surfaces and corning appeared to be top notch (we took a corner at about 40mph as best I could tell looking down real quick, and it handled it like I do with a 10 sack of White castles!). The different driving modes were very cool and very noticeable in changing the driving characteristics real time (but IMO what contributes to the

All in all the interior seems to be a winner IMO (except… for the back seat which now being a split fold down feel like every other rear seat… very upright and "benchy").

Now to my negative impressions…

#1 - There is a terrible unavoidable reflection in the side view mirrors of the side interior air ducts which are wrapped in a silver stainless. That surround is seen every time you look into the side mirror. The dealer acknowledged seeing it too and said his opinion it could only be corrected by making the air duct trim flat black. As well on the subject of side view mirrors… also found it difficult to see traffic behind because the top design is sloped (not a straight eye line I'm used to with my '05… annoying). The inner side attached to the vehicle is angled at 45 degrees which also cuts down on your view.

#2 - The talked about "lag" or 1sec delay of acceleration is definitely noticeable and a tad disappointing. I'm not sure it would preclude my from moving forward for purchase but something you should take note of if 0-60 is your main priority. The salesman said it could be the mode we chose in that some of the cylinders shut down to improve fuel economy and it may lag a bit to get them all going again (sounded reasonable to me although different than my "ballzy" '05 which would give me what I needed when needed it!). We didn't highway test so I can't speak about how it felt or if the delay was present at higher speeds.

#3 - I was part of the owner loyalty discount program so I went there with the knowledge & intention that I would be wanting an AWD V6 w/ tech pkg. The rules are to get the $500 accessory discount & up to two payments of $500 that you can't purchase an in stock vehicle and you must submit your certificate by 9/2/14 and take delivery by no later than 10/31/14 (see details below)… All good so far right??… Wrong… I was informed by the salesman that Acura said the AWD models will not be ready until AFTER this deal below expires! What is up with that!? I said to the dealer… "You mean to tell me if I do this deal today and want the AWD V6 w/ Tech that I am not going to get these discounts"?! The sales manage came over and said… "that is our understanding, but we'll contact corporate office and express your concern". Just thought it should be something I should pass along for those in the same category.

That is all for now… hope it helps you!


Important information
Valid only toward the purchase or lease of a new 2015 TLX through AFS.
2015 Acura TLX must be unavailable at time of certificate issuance.
Must obtain certificate from authorized Acura dealer and certificate must be presented at time of delivery. Certificate only valid at issuing dealer and for the client named on certificate.
Certificate not valid for cash sale and is non-transferrable. Excludes prior purchases and subject to credit approval.
Offer void where prohibited. Other eligibility requirements apply.
Date of certificate issuance must be prior to September 2, 2014.
2015 TLX must be delivered to the client no later than October 31, 2014.
Offer is valid for only one vehicle per client and certificate can be redeemed only once.
Lease extension only for the term noted on certificate. Clients living in Alabama, Georgia and New York will be required to sign paperwork to process an extension. If the extension exceeds original maturity date by more than 6 months, the client will be required to sign extension agreement.
Terms and conditions based on final negotiations with dealer and contract with AFS.
Offers available at participating dealers only.
While supplies last.

2015 TLX Pricing
MODEL
TLX 2.4 8-DCT P-AWS
TLX 2.4 8-DCT P-AWS with Technology Package
TLX 3.5 V-6 9-AT P-AWS
TLX 3.5 V-6 9-AT P-AWS with Technology Package
TLX 3.5 V-6 9-AT P-AWS with Advance Package
TLX 3.5 V-6 9-AT SH-AWD with Technology Package
TLX 3.5 V-6 9-AT SH-AWD with Advance Package

Starting at:
$30,995†
$35,025†
$35,220†
$39,250†
$42,500†
$41,450†
$44,700†
†MSRP excludes tax, license, registration, vehicle options and destination charge of $895.00. Dealer prices may vary.

[1] LEASE EXAMPLE: 2015 TLX Base Automatic Transmission (Model UB1F3FJW) for $299.00 per month for 36 months with a $2,200.00 capitalized cost reduction available to customers who qualify for the Acura Financial Services Super Preferred or Preferred credit tier. $2,499.00 total due at lease signing (Includes down payment with no security deposit. Excludes taxes, titles and fees). Not all lessees will qualify. Higher lease rates apply for lessees with lower credit ratings. MSRP $31,890.00 (Includes destination, excludes tax, license, title, registration, documentation fees, options, insurance and the like). Actual net capitalized cost $29,361.58. Net capitalized cost includes $595 acquisition fee. Dealer contribution may vary and could affect actual lease payment. Total monthly payments $10,764.00. Option to purchase at lease end $21,047.40. Lessee responsible for maintenance, excessive wear/tear and 15 cents/mile over 10,000 miles/year for vehicles with MSRP less than $30,000, but for vehicles with MSRP of $30,000 or more, mileage cost is 20 cents/mile over 10,000 miles/year. See deale

Rocketsfan

Actually, most people that are buying this car don't care if it's not the fastest at anything. I don't want to have the fastest and be worried about getting rid of it after 3 years because the warranty is almost up. I believe Rocket_man has stated many times he would rather have the 4 cylinder, but seeing as it doesn't offer the Advanced package, he's thinking of getting the 6 cylinder. I've said many times that I don't care if the car has 300 horsepower. If it has 290 hp and does around 5.9, that's plenty fast for me. Who the hell is looking in this class for "the best performance out there"? I'm looking for as complete a package as possible - quick enough, good looking enough, reliable, without paying an arm and a leg. It's why I haven't seriously considered German cars or moving up a class, although that damn C-Class tempts me. But after you put in what you want on that car, you're probably going to be upwards of $60k. Oh you silly German makes.

BEAR-AvHistory

That’s always been a point of contention, that the Acura is a tarted up Accord. The Honda president to offset this perception has come out & said the only common part now is the Accord floor pan stamping they both use & that all the upper sheet metal is now unique to the TLX.

The ES-350 & Avalon being the same car might be decided by placing the two nose to tail. Its obvious they are using the same body shell. Engines are identical 60* 3.5 V6 with 268HP @ 6200rpm & 248ftlbs of torque producing 31mpg highway.

Looks exactly the same accept for the logo on the engine cover. Overall specs are identical with the Avalon being 2 inches longer & an inch wider.

IMHO its easier to make a case for a rebadge than it being a different car.

BEAR-AvHistory

I already said a number of times I agree with the "most people" thing & that it would sell well. I also said a number of times one bad review on the cars 0-60 & on this forum its to the barricades.

Any number like you have stepped up & said they don't care. You don't care if its about a 5.9 time (is 6.3 OK?). Again in the AutoWeek thread 50% of the posters were have an issue with something people are saying they don't care about.

Why was that?

Glashub

I didn't say crushing the competition -- I said "crushing it". Specifically I was thinking YoY compared to the 2IS. Nobody is catching BMW but as Dan Neil once wrote about BMW easy lease plans -- "Anybody with a big enough welfare check can get into a BMW". They've been doing this easy lease thing for years.

BEAR-AvHistory

My bad misunderstood on what was getting crushed Everybody want to be the 3 series killer.

Have no idea how hard it is to get a BMW lease but after the first 6000 3 series leases each month the next 6000 are outright purchases. According to BMW Financial they have a 50% take rate on their lease packages.

I just made the 50/50 split up on the 3 series as a worse case scenario. I would expect there are more buys than leases in the lower 1,2,3,4 series. A higher percentage of leases should occur in the 5, 6, 7 & M series by virtue of who buys them & what the price tags are.

Personally as a retired international banker I don't see any real problems with leasing if the advantages work for you & I believe Acura agrees with me since leasing is very prevalent in their advertising.

One thing I can say for certain is I have never seen an Acura add in my paper that does anything but list the purchase price in the fine print at the bottom because by law they need to tell you what the monthly lease payment in the headline of the add is based on. Drive a new TLX for $299 a month for 36 months*

Good news is in anticipation of the new model buying rush Leith has 0.9 & 1.9% loan money.

Our two local dealers:

Lieth Acura "get the new TLX $299 a month, 36 month lease".

Performance Acura, guy in full racing suit, helmet in hand walking up to the TLX

Glashub

BMW knows how to build a brand. #11. Far and away the most valuable auto brand, http://www.forbes.com/powerful-brands/list/

Rocketsfan

Common sense would indicate most people who don't have an issue with something wouldn't participate in a thread about that something? It's like people gathering and harping on "no exposed tailpipes". Yes, those people care. What are the ones who don't supposed to do? Start a thread saying they don't care? lol.


And for the record, a 6.3 0-60 time would bother me. At that point, I'd prefer an Accord.

Terragotti

here is the Motor Trend review, i dont know if its been posted yet

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...x_first_drive/

deepen03

Just read a few solid reviews of the TLX! Looks like we have our first winner at Acura since the first-gen TSX!

deepen03

dysonlu

This little side discussion stems from that comment about this car being a failure if it was slower than expected (assuming Autoweek numbers were valid), which basically implied that it was a crucial factor to enthusiasts and non-enthusiasts alike. This is very far from the truth. Furthermore, with many reviews published now, very few reviewers even mentionned about the 0-60 times but they gave their verdict on the car. So this aspect is not that important.

Also, lots of people frequent this board but doesn't care to comment about this subject.

compewterbleu

Really, LOL, 1st gen TSX? Wow, LOL!

compewterbleu

Not totally sold on that. 0-60 comes in handy when entering a highway or getting the *bleep* out of the way! LOL It's not the omega to everything, but whew, for a brand that is supposedly built on engineering prowess it should come in to play. I wasn't stoked by it. Actually a 40-70 time would be useful as well.

Hugh9269

Actually the Cadillac did prove the best in the chassis dept and won by 2 points per C&D.

History would suggest that Cadillac is not supposed to build cars like this, indeed, that few companies other than BMW know how. Delightfully neutral handling and hefty steering make this the most engaging car for a run through the hills; the rear end’s willingness to contribute to directional changes is both thrilling and a little nerve-racking. The Cadillac is the lightest candidate here, with a weight distribution closest to 50/50. It stopped the shortest, circled the skidpad the fastest, and beat the Bavarian in the slalom.

all these cars are excellent and the winner and loser was decided by 1-7 points.

I look forward to a Acura TLX comparsion to the competition soon!

dysonlu

I'm sure you can still get the *bleep" out of the way with a car that does 6.0s instead of 5.6s. :grin:

Rocketsfan

The AutoWeek review is live again with this added blurb :


(Editors Note: Some of you were tipped off to this article last Friday only to get an error when trying to click through. We screwed up and published it before it was supposed to go live; when we took it down the link no longer worked, leading you to an error message. We apologize for the tease, and we'll do our best to make sure it doesn't happen again.)

hddnav

Good one! Actually, I didn't realize that the first gen TSX was a winner, haha, thanks for pointing that out.

To me, here are the Acura winners:

Legend
NSX
Integra
TL
MDX

Less appealing Acuras:
RDX
TSX
ZDX
ILX
RL
RLX

jjsC5

Most Acura drivers are not looking for driving excitement is the key phrase. Most manufactures try to build cars that appeal to various crowds. Acura seems content with only the non enthusiasts. It's a shame because I have been an enthusiast for 50 years, and they used to build excellent cars that were more or less on par with the competition for enthusiasts. But many other manufactures have taken a step forward which means that by default Acura (and Honda, including motorcycles) has taken a step back.

I had really hoped the TLX would allow me to save some money on my next car as I am nearing retirement, but it's not looking good.

BEAR-AvHistory

They might be correct about who to cater to. This is based on the 2% take rate on the 4G 6MT that the Honda guy said in the interview. Was less than half of what I had guessed.

graphicguy

My dealer called when they got them in (this past weekend). I couldn't get there until last night. They had sold the 5 they had, but Acura gave them 2 for demo purposes only at launch.

One was a 4 cyl, the othe the V6 FWD Advance. Both were fun.

Coming from my '13 SH AWD, the FWD Advance felt faster by my "buttometer". I didn't feel any hesitation, at all. My guess is 0-60 on the 6 at around low to mid 5s. Add a second to that with the 4. Maybe press cars weren't production tuned, yet?

I looks much nicer in person than the pics I've seen. Particularly nice was the CBP with the "coffee:" interior....very classy looking. Transmissions were exemplary. Both will let you hit redline....in every gear if you want.

The suspension is where you feel the upgrade from the 4G. It's as good as anything I've driven....that includes A4/S4/A6, BMW 3 (and certainly better than a 5), Mercedes CLA/C/E.

Shutting the doors gives the "thunk" Mercedes is known for. High quality materials.

Seats are the same (which is a good thing). Didn't get a chance to play with the stereo. Assume it's still as good as the ELS in the 4G.

The 4 and 6 like to be wrung out, that's for sure.

Not sure what can touch the Advance.....with lane keeping, intelligent cruise, color OSD, remote start, sunroof, V6 (which sounds/feels butter smooth) for $42K. Similar performance, build, features, would cost $10K -$15K more in a comparable Audi, BMW, Infiniti, Benz or Lexus. Acura launching with $500 in accessory credits and $1,000 payment forgiveness. I seem to remember the sales person saying there was another $500 available through Honda Credit, too.

My dealer sold out of his 1st shipment within 24 hours. 2nd shipment due mid month is sold out, too.

He said he can sell the demos, but not for another few weeks.

Really nice car.