BEAR-AvHistory

I believe there are two worlds of Acura now.....The real green leaning product that they are actually selling & the one off Race Car as a enthusiasm suppository teaser for the sport sedan fans.

fsttyms1

Maybe Acura needs to move its headquarters out of Cali

vbx

I dont know, auto are only popular in the americas. Everywhere else, the majority drives standards. Try renting a car in europe. Most american would be stuck since they cant drive stick.

But autos will be forced upon the rest of the world slowly but surely.

Technology doesnt mean better. Look at the remote control steering on the q50.....

draph

In America, the "standard" is now AT. Your choice of terminology dates you to a time when the MT was "standard", and the AT was "optional".

I can't blame the car companies for scrapping the MT for business reasons. Instead, I blame the EPA for requiring expensive tests to certify each drive train combo, resulting in a less palatable business model. An AT or DCT is all computer controlled (yes, there is a computer between the paddle shifter and the gear box), and thus easier to maintain control for emissions purposes. Us dumb MT drivers are unpredictable and are more apt to over rev, lug the engine, and do other stupid things that are hard to anticipate for emissions controls. Honda's most obvious emission control work-around is hanging the engine speed for that half a second after engaging the clutch between gear shifts (presumably to burn off that unneeded fuel that's still there after unloading the engine, rather than send out the tail pipe as unburned hydrocarbons)...As emission laws get tougher, I wouldn't be surprised if it simply becomes impossible to meet them for all scenarios of how an MT car can be driven, or just that much more expensive for the Software Engineer to write code for another variant, but with a low take rate. Also, as more and more people don't know how to drive or want an MT, more and more of those same people are automotive engineers. When even the engineers or automotive executives who chose car design for a career can't drive an MT, you can definitely say good bye to that option.

To the person who claimed Honda/Acura has to make 16 cars per trim level, I cry "BS". Interior trim involved with the shift lever was the same color in every car. Exterior color has nothing to do with whether it could have an AT or MT inside. Honda seems to always be bragging about their highly automated, flexible manufacturing facilities. If they were that good, custom orders wouldn't be a major headache or cost adder. The last factory tour I took was the Corvette plant in Bowling Green. I did not see several white cars, then several red cars coming down the line, nor several ATs, then several MTs, nor several base, then several convertibles, then several with Z51, etc. It is a mix - they are not making combos in identical lots by any stretch of the imagination - even international configurations are mixed in with US. This is about a dealership business model that wants to limit choice so people are more apt to buy off the lot. When I bought my 2010 TL 6MT in Mayan Bronze with umber interior, I "ordered" rather than take the black, white, or silver 6MTs that were on the lots in the local area at the time. Dealers hate that, especially when they are fearful of being "stuck" with MTs they can't sell. They really didn't like it when I insisted my price for the "ordered" car be the same as what they were offering me for a lot car. I put "ordered" in quotes, because, in the end, I believe they were going to be getting another MT car anyway, and they still had time to spec it out the way I wanted it.

draph

I believe most people who realize that end up buying the Si. I prefer more room with my 6MT, but I'm always staying tuned in to what sedans one can get with an MT and their relative prices. In 2014, the ILX is a poor value over the Si sedan with navigation. With the 2014 interior upgrade of the Civic line, including an iPhone like interface on the dash, I'd be willing to give up leather, HIDs, and a more conventional dash layout in return for helical limited slip differential, navigation, and $5K more in my pocket. The ILX 6MT at its price point really needs to include the Tech Package (if not an Advance package) along with the LSD to make it worth the price premium over the Si, IMHO.

Colin

I mentioned it, but was repeating what someone mentioned who is a supplier to H/A. I can say for certain that we have ordered 'odd' combinations and though they get a production date, sometime it slips. They tell us it's because they're waiting till they have enough orders to make the run. How many cars this means, I do not know. Regardless, it could easily be a situation where the 'could' make one car in a specific color/trim, but refuse to do so for internal policy reasons (ie it's not efficient)?

Anyway, flexible manufacturing for H/A means they can change a line from making one car, to an entirely different model (Civic to RDX for example), not that they can (or will) make a car that is not already on the order sheet amongst these models. I don't believe it has anything to do with a lack of ability to make a custom Accord or TLX, just a lack of willingness to change the entire process from dealer orders, financing/leasing policies, to assembly line techniques. IMO, there is more to it than you think.

And, who is to say that making 'one' unique car for GM doesn't add cost? Maybe this method of construction is BUILT INTO the cost of a Corvette, thus making all of them more expensive?

CoquiTSX

Excellent point.

JM2010 SH-AWD

There's no way I can text, shave and eat my mega-burger/drink my humongo gulp while trying to shift some MT.

Colin

Of course you can, you just can't steer.

jshaw

That one extra feature isn't just R&D work + certification. You also have to produce extra pieces and keep additional inventory for inevitable repair/mantainance work.




On another note, Honda has stated in videos related to the Marysville plant, in each batch (~30) powertrains must be the same, however, colors + trim can vary.




Honda limiting colors in NA (when it comes to 6MT or even certain trim levels) seems to have no technical limitation (and I don't have a non-conspiracy-style answer).




I am somewhat curious that Canada gets power folding (not the plain old "manual folding; power adjustment") mirrors on their tech package. Something that seems omitted from the US spec model.

Spirited Driver

Due to the TLX not having a MT, along with the piss poor customer service I've encountered since owning the ILX, I am looking towards leaving Acura and getting into the 2016 V6 (mt) Honda Accord Sedan that's coming out this fall

vbx

I'll wait til late 2015. Infiniti should have a Q60 coupe refresh by then.

If not, the M coupe looks pretty sweet. I thought about Audi but to many horror stories.

TeamAcura

All signs point to NO but I wouldn't be surprised if they do offer it a year or two from now. It's a shame because it really makes driving fun and more engaging for the enthusiasts out there. The problem I have with DCT is the driver can get lazy and not use it in manual mode at all. Just better off with an AT instead. DCT is great on the track but pointless IMO on the streets. It's just not as engaging and quite simply boring IMHO.

H_CAR

Honda hasn't confirmed anything like that on the Accord.

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

This is news to me ( that V6 Accord is getting a MT). I think if the Accord gets it, there's a better chance of it trickling into the TLX at some point.

vbx

I know how you feel. I went from a G coupe to a Q50 sedan. BORING!

And the infotainment system is overrated. Haven't even used it besides bluetooth for pandora.

And the 360 degrees camera. LOL, so many people nicked their rims bumpers etc etc. I myself ruined the bottom of my bumper while pulling out of a parking lot. All that sensor and cameras..

On my G Coupe, never hit a curb or even touched my bumper to anything. I guess the MT made me more careful and aware. I don't know. Had it for 7 years and it was still mint.

My Q50, already has a curbed rim and scraped bumper.

BEAR-AvHistory

At the risk of bringing fire down from the sky I would say that Honda has figured out that most enthusiasts will not buy an Acura regardless of transmission. They do all the requisite attention getting things in the adds but do not build the car that backs the the adds up.

You can go to any 10 track days & a single Acura will be hard to find. At the same times the brands that have accepted enthusiast product lines are all over the place. Some of the more high profile brands even support amateur club racing in a big way. Honda is there but not Acura.

Colin

No fire from the sky, just a suggestion that there are degrees of 'enthusiasm'. I attend no track days (our one and only racetrack closed years ago), but this doesn't mean that I (still) don't prefer a stick.

BEAR-AvHistory

You like to drive stick, I like to stick, but I would suggest there are not enough "stick enthusiasts" buying Acura TL/TLX MT equipped cars to make it a viable option for the manufacturer. You sell them so you should know the % of cars equipped with a stick.

On the outside looking in IIMO I would guess 5%. I had a hard time finding one when I bought my TL. Dealer traded for one 600 miles away & that's when they were selling 60,000+ cars a year.

That all being said I don't believe Acura has a real enthusiasts car image. C&D even called it the Official Car of the Real-Estate Agents in a review. It performs well but it just not a car that comes to mind in the performance car demographic

Colin

This is true, but it's not what you wrote. I replied to what you wrote. I even voiced something similar a little earlier:

BEAR-AvHistory

Sure it is. You elected to divide "enthusiast" into classes (there are degrees of 'enthusiasm'), I am just working on the group that buys a TL.

We should agree to disagree about what is the makeup of an enthusiast is. Their are a pretty good number of people that are very enthusiastic about the Prius.

My definition is toward people who for lack of a better term drive hard or aggressively, like back roads & a smaller percentage of them who track cars. Some TL drivers fit but I expect not many or they would have moved more MT's when they were available.

My TL MT was bought first as a kid hauler then as something a little more sporty than an Accord. If I wanted to drive for fun I took one of the smaller cars out.

vbx

This is true. Nothing in the current lineup impresses me. The TLX to me was a let down.

But it shouldn't be too much of an effort to add a 6mt option. Even if its only available as a "special order".

winstrolvtec

Too many variables, personal definitions, and interpretations to really have these types of discussions IMO. Everyone probably views themselves as an enthusiast, while Acura and each one of us has our own definition. Then to some, a TL might be plenty sporty, to others it's a family sedan, so there is also that matter.

Furthermore, a stick and the enthusiast, are not, or perhaps are no loner, mutually inclusive. Also, one can subscribe to the idea that the demand of 6MT is independent of the supply or the opposite in that it's also possible that the more they build, the more they can actually sell and promote and whether those two points are mutually "exclusive".

It could be a cost and production cycle concern as well as the overall uncertainty of having to commit to building one and then of course which one do you build, the I4, V6, or SH? Not sure it's necessarily numbers concern because between the 6MT 3G guys that never caught on to the 4G be it price or style, the 4G 6MT and the TSX 6MT market just killed off by the combing of the models, there should be enough in theory, it's how you go about executing the version that might be of concern or not, maybe a bit of everything.

Again, I really have no idea, just throwing stuff out there. Ultimately, they will or won't make one and who knows what really warrants the decision one way or another in this case besides Acura. However, if any rumors of a 6MT V6 Accord sedan are true with enough I4 6MT models around between Acura and Honda, that could leave enough room for a 6MT SH.

liquidneon

sure you can - knees. all good until you need to make a turn, at which point you put down one of the items you're holding.

Colin

I...cant'....do....it.....

kurtatx

CVTs for all.

Seriously, though, manuals are dying fast in the US because DCTs are faster. There's a reason meatheads call it "granny shifting"