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I don't think it would be that "easy". You don't just throw on a couple of turbos & have an engine live long term.
Unless the current engine was designed to be boosted at some point in its development it would not be reliable at the boost level required to get it to 400HP. It takes some heavy duty parts to support that level of boost.
More boost = more expensive engine, transmission, axles & final drive
My 3.0 was running 18.5PSI to get 410WHP on 96.5 octane gas. With more displacement the Honda engine would use less boost but it would not be a nominal amount.
He said 400hp, not whp, so that really is like 360whp (for the AWD). a 3.5L could make those numbers without much. If Honda had a really solid tune that didn't just dump extra fuel in to be safe, they could likely keep the engine stock and hit 400hp. They wouldn't. But they could. And I dunno, I don't think 0.5L of displacement is that nominal...
My 3.0 took 12psi for 320whp. Would have to look up some old dynos but IIRC 365/370WHP was about 14/15psi.
For a point of comparison the 3G CT Engineering supercharged TL's were running 4/5 psi for 40/60 HP. Don't know if the was WHP OR BHP its what CT advertised.
Best listed runs TL/CT were 13.3 @ 107 by a guy named Brett. Pretty close to my 335is when it was stock.
The TL did not show any dynos but mine was 319/321WHP for 13.0 @ 110mph. with your factor that would be about 358BHP
370WHP netted me 12.5 @ 114.5mph which is listed at Drag Times
Think the current engine is the same as 3G with different heads? & not a new design. That said a boost is possible that the engine can live with & still would give the TLX a nice overall performance envelope.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 02-02-2016 at 03:22 PM.
Honda engineers said that the J-series with turbo can make 400hp reliability. No idea how smooth or efficient it is though.
I'd love to see this information. Was it something that someone asked directly in a letter or some other way?
I bet their hesitance to introduce a turbo J-series is probably based on the fact that it would have notable turbo lag to get 400 hp. They are probably still sore from the 1G RDX which got lambasted for its turbo lag.
I'd love to see this information. Was it something that someone asked directly in a letter or some other way?
I bet their hesitance to introduce a turbo J-series is probably based on the fact that it would have notable turbo lag to get 400 hp. They are probably still sore from the 1G RDX which got lambasted for its turbo lag.
Jeff from Temple of VTEC attended a media event back in 2012 and he spoke with some of the Honda engineers. It's nothing official.
I'm not sure about the reasons for not having such engine yet. I agree that the 1G RDX is quite laggy, but the latest Civic 1.5T has been receiving great reviews. You know, at 3.5L, you probably don't need that much more boost to get 400hp, sort of like how BMW is getting 320hp with 3.0L, or Mercedes getting 369hp from 3.0L.
The main goal of the J series was compactness. Perhaps adding turbo to it may present some packaging issues that will be costly to fix?
It's also possible that Honda is working on a 2.5L I5 turbo engine instead. That may make more sense since it will be a brand new design, while the J series turbo engine would be based on a dated design.
Honda engineers said that the J-series with turbo can make 400hp reliability. No idea how smooth or efficient it is though.
Would not bet any money on it. Definitions can be stretched quite a bit in performance land when its not official & there is no money on the line. They tend to be laggy but are built for 1/2 mile & 1 mile airport races that start from a 40MPH roll so the lag does not matter since its already spooled up.
By the way depending on engine size it takes more boost than you think to get to 400HP. My 3.0 took 18.5 to get over 400whp. At 15/16psi it was making 370WHP which could be factored up to 402BPH.
The 2.0 liter 4's are in the 20+PSI range to get 240BHP.
In tuner land there are a number of 700WHP+ 3.0 N54's running around with oversized turbos & no internal modifications. Not sure I would want to spend my money on one.
See the 2016 Civic engine stop sell order & recall.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 02-03-2016 at 02:36 PM.
Someone forgot to put the snap rings or mis-installed on them on the wrist pins. Not sure what beside the 2016 Civic is effected but it will be a major pain in the butt for anyone effected.
Be interesting to see how they approach the fix. Usually you need to pull the pistons to see if the snap rings are in there. Bunch of effected cars are on the dealers lots. Do they get torn down then rebuilt? If they rebuild the engine is it still a new car? Do they get a new engine if the snap rings are found to be missing?
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 02-03-2016 at 02:57 PM.
I am not saying Fusion is a better car. It does not handle as well as TLX. But in the report, this 2017 may be a lot better than the 2014 model I drove before!
"Fusion V6 Sport adds continuously controlled damping for real-time suspension tuning based on setup and road inputs. The system features pothole detection technology that, in less than the blink of an eye, adjusts the shock absorbers to greatly reduce the severity of impact transmitted to occupants. Power and handling are complemented by unique, performance-inspired style inside and out. The look is distinguished by an aggressive exterior with deeper air intakes and a gloss black-finish mesh grille, 19-inch wheels, rear spoiler and dual twin exhaust outlets."
Frankly the Fusion is a much quieter car! And you can get a heated steering wheel too. We rented the Fusion 4 Cyl Turbo for a 6000 mile vacation out west and it was a top performer. I believe it would wipe a 290 hp Acura TLX easy enough
Frankly the Fusion is a much quieter car! And you can get a heated steering wheel too. We rented the Fusion 4 Cyl Turbo for a 6000 mile vacation out west and it was a top performer. I believe it would wipe a 290 hp Acura TLX easy enough
Having test drove a similar Fusion back to back with the TLX since my man is a Ford fanatic, I respectfully disagree. The TLX was notably quieter inside with less NVH and less body roll around corners. I have a sound level meter that I can borrow from work and brought it along for all my test drives. From quietest to loudest at cruising speed, these are the results I wrote down from my test drives, music off at 110 km/h:
Mercedes-Benz C450: 62.8 dB
Acura TLX: 63.2 dB
Infiniti Q50: 63.5 dB
BMW 340i: 64.9 dB
Ford Fusion: 65.5 dB
Lexus IS350: 67.0 dB
I was surprised that the IS350 had the worst noise levels of the bunch.
It certainly felt slower to me than the TLX as well. Out of all the cars I test drove it was last on my list (the IS350 was 2nd by a narrow margin). But the Fusion also has price going for it. The TLX is substantially faster. For reference, Car and Driver got a 0-60 of 5.8 sec for the TLX and 7.3 sec for the Fusion. The results are worse for 0-100 mph. That was 14.1 sec for the TLX and a whopping 21.1 sec for the Fusion! TLX 1/4 mile was 14.2 sec @ 100 mph while the Fusion was 15.7 sec @ 88 mph. Looking at those numbers, that seems substantially slower to me.
I much rather have the 290 HP TLX put out rather than a piece of junk with breaking buttons, poor customer service and 300+ HP.
Also just remember, V6 TLX is getting 30+ MPG on the highway, I'd like to see the new fusion do that. Last but not least, More HP means larger insurance payments...
Well the two Turbo Fusion Titanium's I have rented and put on over 11 thousand miles in two separate vacations yielded 31 MPG at 70 mph! I would agree that the mileage dropped to around 28 MPG is you drive any faster. This car was far quieter than our 2013 Acura ILX .
Having test drove a similar Fusion back to back with the TLX since my man is a Ford fanatic, I respectfully disagree. The TLX was notably quieter inside with less NVH and less body roll around corners. I have a sound level meter that I can borrow from work and brought it along for all my test drives. From quietest to loudest at cruising speed, these are the results I wrote down from my test drives, music off at 110 km/h:
Mercedes-Benz C450: 62.8 dB
Acura TLX: 63.2 dB
Infiniti Q50: 63.5 dB
BMW 340i: 64.9 dB
Ford Fusion: 65.5 dB
Lexus IS350: 67.0 dB
I was surprised that the IS350 had the worst noise levels of the bunch.
It certainly felt slower to me than the TLX as well. Out of all the cars I test drove it was last on my list (the IS350 was 2nd by a narrow margin). But the Fusion also has price going for it. The TLX is substantially faster. For reference, Car and Driver got a 0-60 of 5.8 sec for the TLX and 7.3 sec for the Fusion. The results are worse for 0-100 mph. That was 14.1 sec for the TLX and a whopping 21.1 sec for the Fusion! TLX 1/4 mile was 14.2 sec @ 100 mph while the Fusion was 15.7 sec @ 88 mph. Looking at those numbers, that seems substantially slower to me.
Would not bet any money on it. Definitions can be stretched quite a bit in performance land when its not official & there is no money on the line. They tend to be laggy but are built for 1/2 mile & 1 mile airport races that start from a 40MPH roll so the lag does not matter since its already spooled up.
By the way depending on engine size it takes more boost than you think to get to 400HP. My 3.0 took 18.5 to get over 400whp. At 15/16psi it was making 370WHP which could be factored up to 402BPH.
The 2.0 liter 4's are in the 20+PSI range to get 240BHP.
In tuner land there are a number of 700WHP+ 3.0 N54's running around with oversized turbos & no internal modifications. Not sure I would want to spend my money on one.
See the 2016 Civic engine stop sell order & recall.
I'd not think 400hp is that hard to get to. There's no point of the Honda engineers to make any crazy claims as it's not being advertised to any one anyway...lol...just a private discussion of what's been done.
Based on your info, 400whp with a 3.0L at 18.5psi, that's not too bad. The J series is 3.5L, and is said to make 400hp, not 400whp. So, it's more like 3.5L to get 350whp, I don't know, may be 14-15psi? That's less than the new Civic, at 16.5psi.
For reference, Infinti has a new VR turbo engine that is based on the VQ series with 3.0L at 400hp.
The CLA45 AMG with 360-370hp is at 26psi.
The 2016 Civic engine recall is for the 2.0L NA engine, not the 1.5T engine.
I'd not think 400hp is that hard to get to. There's no point of the Honda engineers to make any crazy claims as it's not being advertised to any one anyway...lol...just a private discussion of what's been done.
Based on your info, 400whp with a 3.0L at 18.5psi, that's not too bad. The J series is 3.5L, and is said to make 400hp, not 400whp. So, it's more like 3.5L to get 350whp, I don't know, may be 14-15psi? That's less than the new Civic, at 16.5psi.
For reference, Infinti has a new VR turbo engine that is based on the VQ series with 3.0L at 400hp.
The CLA45 AMG with 360-370hp is at 26psi.
The 2016 Civic engine recall is for the 2.0L NA engine, not the 1.5T engine.
Can honda supercharge J35 instead of turbocharge? That will not have problem of lag and add torque in low rpm. Since it has good fuel economy already, penalty on mileage should not be a problem. I think Audi/Jaguar uses supercharger in variety of models and people like those..
I'm Canadian. I can assure you my TLX has a heated steering wheel, and it's VERY nice. Also heated rear seats. Also heated windshield element for the wiper area. And a washer fluid tank that can take a whole bottle no problem.
Can honda supercharge J35 instead of turbocharge? That will not have problem of lag and add torque in low rpm. Since it has good fuel economy already, penalty on mileage should not be a problem. I think Audi/Jaguar uses supercharger in variety of models and people like those..
They can do anything they decide to do That said given available room a supercharger is a much easier addition than a Turbo.
Should the spirit move me any forced air addition to my fun car would be a supercharger rather then a turbo despite the fact I have 2 cars with turbos.
Can honda supercharge J35 instead of turbocharge? That will not have problem of lag and add torque in low rpm. Since it has good fuel economy already, penalty on mileage should not be a problem. I think Audi/Jaguar uses supercharger in variety of models and people like those..
I'm not sure if Honda did any testing with that, but I don't see why this wouldn't work.
There's the Comptech supercharger kit for the 3G TL that is advertised to produced an additional 60-65whp: Supercharger Kit (04-07 TL)
That's about 70-80hp more at the crank. Assuming Honda adds a similar S/C system to the RLX's J35, that would be around 380-390hp.
If Honda wants to get into the hp war with the German brands and the new Infiniti Q50, then boost is needed. It's not like they will make a V8 NA engine anyways...
It does not do much....this is the only Comptech one at Drag Times that has a dyno sheet posted.
Quickest one was 13.1. All are around the same speed so the WHP is pretty much the same across the cars with some having better traction. ET varied 13.7 to 13.1
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 02-05-2016 at 12:46 PM.
It does not do much....this is the only Comptech one at Drag Times that has a dyno sheet posted.
Quickest one was 13.1. All are around the same speed so the WHP is pretty much the same across the cars with some having better traction. ET varied 13.7 to 13.1
That's as advertised then. The 3G TL with its J32 in stock form makes roughly 200whp in 5AT form, and 220whp with 6MT. Remember, the J32 was rated at 258hp only. Since Comptech says the S/C kit is good for 60-65whp, that brings us to 260-285whp, depends on tranny. The S/C kit comes with an intake too, so part of that 60-65whp gain is from the intake. I'd imagine that car from the dyno you posted probably has a few other mods to be at close to 300whp.
13.1@107mph is pretty much what I'd expect from a 295whp FWD at 3500lb.
For comparison, Car and Driver got 14.3@99mph in a stock 3G TL 6MT A-spec (with summer tires).
02-02-2016 | 09:54 AM
Only Canadian models have the heated steering wheel option.
