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I recently purchased new wheels (Advance wheels) and tires (Continental DWS Extreme) and have been experiencing vibrations at highway around speeds 65 - 80 mph on the highway. I decided to get a road force balance to let me know if there are any issues with the wheel or tires so that I can get them exchange if needed. I found a shop that offers road force balancing and called them, they explained the road force process, and said they would allow me to take pics of the measurements of the before and after measurements since they couldn't provide a printout. So, I take my car to the shop to get this done. While I’m waiting, I remind them that he said I could take pics. He then said, he’ll have his tech take the pics. 1st bad sign, but didn’t really think anything of it. The first wheel he tells me had 27lbs of road force for the tire and that it may need to be replaced. A few minutes later he said, oh we got it down to .015. I was like wow that is amazing. Come to find out later when I receive the pics that his measurement was inches vs pounds. I’m not sure if this was intentional but it seemed pretty deceptive. So second wheel he tells me that it has 11lbs, but then I don’t get any updates after that. They finish the road force balance and they tell me that all the wheels got down to low values (e.g. .015, .012 etc) again kind of deceptive as these measurements were in inches. The tech then text me the pics. I noticed right away that the pics only included the before measurements for 1 wheel (rim and tire). The manager then tells me the tech only took before pics of the 1 wheel that had a high reading, and only took the after RF measurements of the other wheels. Not what I asked for, but ok as long as they resolved my issues. I go outside to look at the car, the 2 front wheels are marked for where they matched the rim to tire. No marks on my back wheels. Next thing I noticed excessive weights on the rear driver side wheel, but no mention of any problems with the tire or rim for that particular wheel. The other rear wheel had the same exact weights that I came in with (WTF!!!). It seems like they only road forced maybe my 2 front wheels (at the most), the rear driver side just a regular balance, and the other wheel doesn’t seem like anything was done. I get on the road to drive back home and still feel the vibrations at around 65 – 75 mark. It’s better than before, but still there. I immediately call them back and the manager tells me I should get the tire replaced that had the high initial reading. I feel this shop did some half ass job of road force balancing, as I went there on a Saturday and they were pretty busy. Spent over 3 hrs there of which they probably just spent 30 mins doing the road force balance. I’m really annoyed at this point as I felt I just wasted my time and money. Below are pics of some of the measurements as well as the weights that were used on the wheels. So here are my questions:
1. Conversion of inches to pounds for road force measurements. From my research, .001 inches equals 1 lb of road force. So, there low reading of .015 is actually 15lbs of road force. Can someone please confirm. It seems pretty deceptive that he would start off with giving me measurements in pounds and then the end results in inches.
2. The excessive weights (2 long strips) on the rear driver side wheel, isn’t that a sign of a bad rim or tire? And no this is not the wheel that measured 27lbs of road force originally.
3. The passenger rear wheel with the same weights I came in with. Does that mean they did not do any balancing at all to this wheel??
4. Last, is the type of weights that were used. I’ve never seen these in my life. They are like long strips of metal with no markings. See pic below. Anyone familiar with these types of weights? Are they any good?
TLDR: New wheels and tires (Advance wheels, Continental DWS Extreme) and having vibration issues. Got a road force balance to let me know if there are any issues with rims and tires and still getting vibrations. One wheel had a before measurement of 27lbs got it down to .015 (15 lbs). Readings I received seem a little high (.015, .012). I’ve been told that they should try to get them under 10 lbs. 2 Front wheels marked for matching rim and tire. 1 rear wheel excessive weights. Other rear wheel has original weights (doesn’t look it was touched). Please see questions above.
Ok, I think I found an answer to one of my questions. The weights used seems to be 3M lead free weights (see link below). It's a lead free composite material that is flexible. It's a cut to length weight where you cut it to the specific weight needed. Anyone familiar with these weights? I can't find any info on user experience with these.
Before the tire is balanced, all prior weights need to be removed!
The DWS tires have soft sidewalls need to be HIGH PRESSURE MOUNTED to ensure the tire seals properly on the rim. If the tire is not properly sealed to the rim it will cause vibrations such as what you are getting. The way to fix it is to take off the tire and remount it.
Also I would have you check the inside of the rims (portion that is filled with air) to make sure there's no fix a flat or grease or anything inside that could also be causing the issue.
Third, are the wheels you bough hub centric? If not, you need adapter rings, but you'd probably start feeling the vibration around 40 MPH.
The company pulling the tire replacement stunt on your is clear BS. They gave you the run around on it when they told you they sucessfully balanced it. Either way, the tire is brand new and it should be covered by Continental's Warranty at any Continental Tire dealer.
Excessive wheel weights are a sign that the tire was not mounted properly (specific area where the TPMS sensor should be in relation to the tire to prevent vibrations). As well it can signify that the rims might have a bend or might be out of round or poorly made.
Here is an update. Received a replacement tire for the one with the high RF measurement. Went back to the shop to get the new tire mounted and to road force balance all 4 wheels again. This time stayed and watched them do it. The wheel that measured a high road force before still was high at 23 lbs of road force. Mounted the replacement tire and now it’s down to 2 lbs. The wheel that came back with the original weights went from 17 lbs down to 7 and was re-balanced. There is still one wheel that is still kind of high (14 lbs). Threw that on the back of the car. The car feels much better, I'm still receiving slight vibrations, but much better than before. I think some of it is a result of the wheel in the rear. Thinking about having that replaced as well. I’m not sure if anything else is could be causing the vibrations (i.e. bearings, propeller shaft, etc). It's a weird vibration that can be slightly felt in the steering wheel and pedal when going around 65 - 75. I got a wheel alignment done at another shop who initially did the install of the wheels and tires. I will go back to them and get a copy of the results maybe that will give me some clue if anything else is going on.
Before the tire is balanced, all prior weights need to be removed!
The DWS tires have soft sidewalls need to be HIGH PRESSURE MOUNTED to ensure the tire seals properly on the rim. If the tire is not properly sealed to the rim it will cause vibrations such as what you are getting. The way to fix it is to take off the tire and remount it.
Also I would have you check the inside of the rims (portion that is filled with air) to make sure there's no fix a flat or grease or anything inside that could also be causing the issue.
Third, are the wheels you bough hub centric? If not, you need adapter rings, but you'd probably start feeling the vibration around 40 MPH.
The company pulling the tire replacement stunt on your is clear BS. They gave you the run around on it when they told you they sucessfully balanced it. Either way, the tire is brand new and it should be covered by Continental's Warranty at any Continental Tire dealer.
Excessive wheel weights are a sign that the tire was not mounted properly (specific area where the TPMS sensor should be in relation to the tire to prevent vibrations). As well it can signify that the rims might have a bend or might be out of round or poorly made.
Thanks csmeance for the response. I figured they didn’t do anything with the wheel that came back with the original weights. When questioned about this, they said they check the wheels first and it’s possible the wheel had a low RF measurement and was balanced so nothing was needed to be done. Whatever, I had them RF and re-balanced.
The wheels are OEM wheels (19” advance wheels) so there no adapters needed. I didn’t have them check the rims for stuff that could be inside there. These are new rims but I guess it’s possible something is there.
I’ve tried researching about this high pressure mounting. Couldn’t find anything except comments from you on here and other boards. I asked the tech doing the RF about this as he has the same tires. He told me he never heard of such a thing. He showed me some warning on the tire not to exceed 40 psi when mounting. Is there some kind of documentation from Continental about this?
I still can't figure out why one wheel has excessive weights. It took about 4.25 oz on one side to balance. The RF as an assembly (tire and wheel) is only 2 lbs. They took measurements of the rim but I don't think it was accurate. From researching, it looks like you can’t measure rim run out for these types of rims without taking off the tires. This is due to not having anywhere to measure the outside of the rim due to its design. The guy taking the measurements placed the data arm on the outer edge of the wheel (wheel flange ??) which is not correct. I’m not sure if it’s worth the hassle to research further.
As for your comment about the shop suggestion of replacement tire being BS. I’m not sure if that was BS. I’ve read that there are some tires that come bad from the manufacture. Whether it’s out of round or variation in stiffness. This particular wheel went from 23 lbs to 2 lbs of RF after the tire replacement. So, I think there is proof that some tires are worse than others.
Thanks csmeance for the response. I figured they didn’t do anything with the wheel that came back with the original weights. When questioned about this, they said they check the wheels first and it’s possible the wheel had a low RF measurement and was balanced so nothing was needed to be done. Whatever, I had them RF and re-balanced.
The wheels are OEM wheels (19” advance wheels) so there no adapters needed. I didn’t have them check the rims for stuff that could be inside there. These are new rims but I guess it’s possible something is there.
I’ve tried researching about this high pressure mounting. Couldn’t find anything except comments from you on here and other boards. I asked the tech doing the RF about this as he has the same tires. He told me he never heard of such a thing. He showed me some warning on the tire not to exceed 40 psi when mounting. Is there some kind of documentation from Continental about this?
I still can't figure out why one wheel has excessive weights. It took about 4.25 oz on one side to balance. The RF as an assembly (tire and wheel) is only 2 lbs. They took measurements of the rim but I don't think it was accurate. From researching, it looks like you can’t measure rim run out for these types of rims without taking off the tires. This is due to not having anywhere to measure the outside of the rim due to its design. The guy taking the measurements placed the data arm on the outer edge of the wheel (wheel flange ??) which is not correct. I’m not sure if it’s worth the hassle to research further.
As for your comment about the shop suggestion of replacement tire being BS. I’m not sure if that was BS. I’ve read that there are some tires that come bad from the manufacture. Whether it’s out of round or variation in stiffness. This particular wheel went from 23 lbs to 2 lbs of RF after the tire replacement. So, I think there is proof that some tires are worse than others.
I was saying that the tire should have been replaced for free from the get-go despite where you purchased the tire! It would have been covered under the continental new tire warranty! They tried to get you to pay for a new tire when you didn't have to.
Discount Tire in Ormond Beach FL which works on numerous Porsches, ferraris, etc's manager told me this after I had to come back 3x with my 760 after having continental DW's installed.
I was getting a vibration in the seat so they took the tire off the rim, checked my rim for bends, replaced the tires, etc. Finally the manager popped out and said it needs to be high pressure mounted due to the soft sidewalls.
To check the rim for bends/issues the tire was removed and the balance was checked. Also they put this rod near the edge of the rim and "balanced" it to see if the rod moved at all indicating a bend or out of round spot. Neither was found.
Yes the tire states do not exceed 40 PSI but that's for a loaded tire on a car that you are going to travel on. During mounting there is no weight on the tire so you don't have to worry about it popping.
Discount Tire has done this method to mount the tires on 3 sets of Continental DWS tires on my 3G TL, 4 sets of Continental DW's on my 760 as well and all have balanced out without needing a road force machine either! They used the COATS machines first to prove it to me and I was impressed!
Like I said earlier, the tires have arrows indicating where it should be mounted in relation to the air valve as the TPMS sensors weight a bit and cause vibration issues. If the tire isn't mounted on the right spot, the weight will be all over the place causing more weights and more vibrations.
BTW, you can get print outs. I just had a RFB on my MDX for front end vibration at highway speeds at my dealer. The tech showed me the before and after print outs of what he did and explained everything to me. Normally the techs at dealerships don't interact with customers first hand. Mine does with me. I don't have copies of the print outs, but the tech did have them for each tire. I had one tire and wheel attempted to balance 4 times but was still just out of spec for acceptable range. Now mind you I have 20k miles on these tires already and the vibration had worsened since install and several rotations later. The tech even told me that even the "good" tires were slightly out of balance (within spec, but could be better), which he balanced out into the low single digits. He put the wheel and tire that was just out of spec on the back which has all but gotten rid of my vibration so far (and the MDX is AWD). WHile the tech was in there, he checked the axles and the suspension components and found nothing out of the ordinary. So... we'll see if my MDX stays happy.
I have continentals and when they were installed, they were RFB (apparently not as well as they could have been) at my dealer. It comes down to the guy working on the install/mounting of tires/wheels and whether they actually have any pride in their own work.
06-10-2015, 10:37 AM
Mounted the replacement tire and now it’s down to 2 lbs. 
The wheel that came back with the original weights went from 17 lbs down to 7 and was re-balanced. There is still one wheel that is still kind of high (14 lbs). Threw that on the back of the car. The car feels much better, I'm still receiving slight vibrations, but much better than before. I think some of it is a result of the wheel in the rear. Thinking about having that replaced as well. I’m not sure if anything else is could be causing the vibrations (i.e. bearings, propeller shaft, etc). It's a weird vibration that can be slightly felt in the steering wheel and pedal when going around 65 - 75. I got a wheel alignment done at another shop who initially did the install of the wheels and tires. I will go back to them and get a copy of the results maybe that will give me some clue if anything else is going on.
