jim_c

Instead of just saying the tires are crap, which is a very vague and general statement, how about being a little more specific?
What qualities of the HX MXM4 do you think are sub-standard?
Do you have personal experience with these tires?
It would be helpful to have more useful information, preferably based on facts and experience.
I am not defending the tires.
But I have the Michelins being dissed here and so far I have no issues with them. I do not drive hard and I have not had many opportunities to drive in bad conditions.

docboy

Agreed. Funny thing is Costco/D.T. still sell the A/S+ and at a higher price than the A/S 3s.

Yup. Looking forward to winter (at least winter mountain snow driving).

dswasserman

Just had four new A/S 3s put on our 2009 SH-AWD TL today. Fantastic handling. However, I immediately noticed increased road noise (whirling) over the OE Pilot MXM4s. Not sure if this due to the design of the A/S or if it's because the tires are brand new. Any thoughts?

Edward'TLS

^^^^^

The OEM MXM4 is just a plain-O Touring All-Season (A/S) tire, and is only good in offering super-quiet and easy/comfortable ride, PERIOD. It is no good in any spirited driving, and will squeal like crazy if pushed. Definitely not the right tire of choice especially on the higher performance AWD TL.

On the other hand, the A/S-3 is a High Performance A/S tire, which, of course, places more emphasis on superior handling capability rather than super-quiet and easy ride.

So, don't expect the A/S-3 to be as quiet, but expect the A/S-3 to be much better in handling performance.

jim_c

Oh, sorry, I feel so inferior not having a high performance AWD!
LOL.

Edward'TLS

^^^^^

Don't be. Lots of others are driving a lowly Honda Accord or Civic, too.

The SH-AWD trim IS the higher performance tune of the 4G FWD TL, and there is just nothing you or me can do about it.

jim_c

That should be "you or I" actually.
I guess your command of grammar is similar to your knowledge about cars. LOL.

Edward'TLS

When you've to resort to pick on my grammar, I guess you've got nothing better to say.

But being a 3-month old newbie, I don't blame you.

If you are competent enough to do searches, check out on my 6,700+ posts, especially those inside the 2G TL sub-forum.

There you'll find not only my knowledge about Honda/Acura vehicles, but also my contributions in vehicle modifications, suspension tunings, new tire reviews, problem troubleshooting, etc., etc. to all fellow AZ members since year 2000.

I don't gain my "thanked" count for nothing.

Just wonder, what have you contributed so far to AZ, besides picking on veteran members' grammar ?

docboy

Ok, back on topic:

Just went through 2 major rain storms that dumped nearly 2" rain per day this past weekend, so I had a chance to test out wet traction. The A/S 3s handled the rain with ease. Traction during acceleration remained grippy, as if the rain didn't even affect the tires at all.

Braking held up as well, same grippy feeling as in the dry, no slipping.

Ride quality remains confident and stable, and still IMHO less road noise the A/S+.

So far, SH-AWD and the A/S 3s are an excellent match. I'll have a chance to test out snow traction in the upcoming winter months as I head up to the mountains for skiing. I suspect the A/S 3s will do just fine in the snow/ice.

Only thing need to continue to monitor is thread wear.

Edward'TLS

^^^^^

Please keep us all updated on how the A/S 3 will perform in the snow/ice, when the white stuff comes later on.

jnguyen87

Just got my AS3s put on last week. Our shop down here was offering michelins at wholesale cost. Had 4 AS3s mounted and balanced and installed on the car for $760+tax. At first I thought they were a little on the loud side and maybe a little rough but after a few days they broke or something because now I think they are awesome.

docboy

I had a chance to take the TL up to a ski resort today up in the mountains. Winter has come early, and thought I post a quick review of the A/S 3s in the snow/ice/slush, as I've been eager test out these tires in the snow.

RAIN GRIP - Excellent grip. Seattle has a reputation for horrendous rainfall, and these past few weeks the rain hasn't caused the tires to slip or cause.

SNOW GRIP - AWESOME. I was driving 40-50mph through slush, snow/ice in inclines/curves/incline curves, and the grip was definitely there. I could feel the meaty tires grip the cold stuff with severe adhesion. Extremely confident and grippy, almost glue like.

TRACTION - During declines on the way home, the tires also gripped quite well. Very confident and again, lots of grip on the wet/slush/ice. Excellent stopping ability.

NOISE - I didn't pay too much attention b/c I was focused on safety and making it to the ski resort alive; it must have not been much of a factor b/c I didn't notice anything major in the noise compartment.

Overall, the A/S 3s and SH-AWD are excellent together in the icy snow/slush/powdery stuff. I realize the A/S 3s are not winter tires but my experience could have had me fooled.

I can definitely recommended the A/3s for the winters!

Mr Marco

Nice work! Where's this shop?

HeartTLs

iTrader: (5)

^^

+1, what's the shops number and person you spoke with?

Edward'TLS

^^^^^

What was the wholesale cost ?

TERRY A KHAN

My 2011 RL was equipped with factory stock Michelins HX MXM4 which had app 18k.
My 2005 RL was fitted with HX and replaced within the first 100 miles with Pilot A/S.
Just fitted the new A/S 3 on my 2011 RL and the noise level has truly reduced as in the case with the older A/S +
This new A/S 3 really drive nice and my acceptance is as good as using the older A/S +.
One of my hopes is that this A/S 3 will last a bit longer than the A/S + in thread wear and noise level.
I am so much impressed with my new A/S 3 that I will be Christmas gifting my daughters 07 Civic to a set of A/S 3's replacing Exalto.
I trust Michelin with my life and have been extremely happy with their tires, not a blow out or flat in 30 years.

TERRY A KHAN

Both my 05 and 2011 RL's were fitted with these tires.
I found them to be very loud on concrete roads, poor traction on wet and snow roads. Ride is not to die for.
For a car like RL this tire is a really poor match, perhaps on different cars it may be acceptable.

TERRY A KHAN

All correct about snow and ice.
Just finished our first snow fall in Toronto with temp between 20-28 F
The A/S 3s had no problem on my 2011 RL driving in this icy condition.

Mr Marco

Almost a dozen posts since this one and no answer on our request for info...

Thaaaaaaanks jnguyen87.

Pics or it never happened.

WolfieRules

Just thread I was looking for. Glad to know the AS3 work on TL. I bought my Christmas present on Black Friday, '13 TL Tech with few extras.


I had put A/S 3s on (to be soon when licensed) my son's 05 TSX back in October, truly amazing for AS perf tire. Went to Street Survival driving school and kept up with a lot quicker cars. Transformed ride as well, far improved. Wet traction is amazing. Car handles amazingly well, if it only had a turbo.


Like so much, I snagged set of new 18s (OE ones from SE) just so I could put AS3 on, can't live with MXVs that came stock. I've had RE960s, Conti DWS, and various others, these are truly amazing.

mynameisjacob

Awesome thread guys... I am getting ready to purchase my set of A/S 3s.

Quick question tho... I see two different A/S 3s on Tirerack... a more expensive set with W or Y speed rating and a less expensive set with H or V speed rating.

I read that W or Y rated tires are better performance but lead to quicker tread wear. Which tires do you recommend? W/Y or H/V??

thePearl

^^^ i was researching TireRack too and was ??? the same thing.

WolfieRules

Deals with Load rating, TLs can use the V rated, are cheaper by about $30 each, the V are limited availability on Michelin's website, but found few places that have them....I use Costco, the can special order by part number.

Edward'TLS

In order to support the higher W/Y top speed, the sidewalls of W/Y-rated tires are heavily reinforced, and the resulting stiffer sidewalls will provide better cornering performance than V-rated tires.

docboy

Update on the my A/S 3s: Recent snow storm and 20 degree F weather have allowed me to further test out the snow/icy capabilities.

Generally snow/slush traction ok, but 2 occurrences have me wondering:
1) I went down a mild/mod decline on a icy/frosty surface one morning in 15 F weather, and I felt some slippage.
2) Yesterday in the snow/slush, while making a slow turn at a stoplight I also felt some slippage.

I don't recall this happening to me when I had my A/S+, so I decided to go to Tirerack and check out some of the reviews. Sure enough, dry/rain traction rated highly; snow traction review is surprisingly low, and people are giving the A/S 3s low ratings on the snow, and comparably much lower than the A/S+. Some are quite disappointed, and this is based on their experiences with other UHP All Seasons.

What are other people experiences like in the snow with said tires?

TERRY A KHAN

Mine has no more than 500 miles so far and snow traction is extremely good.
So far in Toronto we had 3 snow falls ranging from 15 F and up to 8 inches of snow.
Perhaps the RL's SHWD has something to do with this, non-slip, non-sway just driving through the snow covered roads like normal.
Last nite was all ice rain and driving at 5.30 am was problem free for me. The car just seems to glide over the snow covered surfaces.
Also at 15 F my tire pressures are 30-32 psi.

Devil Dog 21

Had our first snow of the season over the last couple days. It started with half a day of sleet leading to thick ice over most side streets, then 2-3 inches of snow on top of the ice. My SH-AWD with A/S3's handled the snow covered roads like a champ. I had no issues getting traction or moving along quickly as several other cars were sliding everywhere. That being said, I took it to an empty parking lot to test out acceleration and braking and I felt like the car slid significantly further than with my stock Michelin's, but could just be that the parking lot hadn't had much work done so there was probably a good layer of ice that I couldn't see.

Hope this helps guys!

WolfieRules

For those of you who by choice or by fate live in the 'great white north' and have extended winters, I'm curious as to how you expect an all-season tire to provide the traction required by far below freezing temps and ice or heavy snow.


All season tires, especially Ultra High Perf ones, all compromise to some extent...given the performance of A/S 3 in dry and wet, if expect not too 'slip or slide' then do like most owners of premium cars do and buy a set of 4 snows mounted on separate smaller steel rims then you can go anywhere all winter, then when Spring finally arrives, go back to your Summer or UHP A/S tires.....I'm just saying, as a former Bridgestone Sales Engineer I know a bit more than the average consumer about this.

docboy

From prior experience, that's where I get my expectations from.

Previously I had Michelin Pilot A/S+ and they were awesome year round: dry, wet, snow, ice. I had NO/ZERO issues in wet/winter with A/S+ until the thread was worn down to crap at ~40,000 miles.

I picked up the A/S 3s b/c they were newer and supposedly "rumored" to be better than the A/S+. When I bought the A/S 3s after its introduction in the summer/early fall, it was too new for most consumers in the US to test it on the snow. So I bought it with the assumption that the A/S 3s winter performance would be the same or better than the A/S+.

So far, in the dry and wet rain, the A/S 3s have been awesome. No slippage and no sliding.

In the snow/ice/slush, after the recent snow storm I feel the A/S 3s have a tendency to slip/slide when braking on snow/ice. This again, is compared to my experience with the A/S+, which did not occur when braking.

tl08rocks

Great thread! Looking to replace my 38K RE970 Pole Position tires mainly because they are horrible in the snow. They were the best tire I have owned for wet or dry conditions and I bought them when they first came out based on the reviews/tests. There were no snow reviews at the time though and I don't want to be surprised again. I don't expect them to snow tires, but I want the best all around performance that includes snowy conditions.

I was ready to purchase the A/S 3 at Costco on Jan. 2 since they will offer $70 rebate, but just saw the poorer than expected survey ratings for snow or ice on Tire Rack. Tire Rack also noted their performance in snow was lower than the A/S +. Ugh.

I was equally surprised to see high ratings for the Hankook Ventus S1 noble. Anybody try these out in snow?

Finally, I don't really push my TL (I just changed the OEM front brake pads at 94K) and I need it to be quiet as I am on the phone all the time. Anyone have experience with the Pirelli Cinturato P7 All Season Plus? The snow ratings on tire rack look almost to good to be true. The one thing that concerns me is the V speed rating. I never drive that fast but once bought V rated tires for a car with a W rating, and the tires broke down at 20K miles.

mynameisjacob

Hmmm so docboy... are you saying that you prefer A/S Plus over the A/S 3? Do you see an improvement in dry & wet traction or is it the same as A/S Plus?

Anyone have a good comparison between A/S 3 and TL's stock tires (Michelin Primacy MXM4) in regards to sidewall stiffness? I live in NYC and roads are rough... and I think the MXM4 are pretty harsh. I may think twice about the A/S 3 if they add even more ride stiffness than MXM4.

Is A/S 3 smoother than stock OEM tires?

MardiGras

I could be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure the TL's OEM tires are Michelin Pilot HX MXM4, which are pure garbage. The excellent Michelin Primacy MXM4 is in another league and has positive reviews.

Unfortunately, due to the naming convention, many folks confuse the Pilot HX MXM4 with the Primacy MXM4 on this forum and many other forums.

mynameisjacob

You are correct MardiGras. Thanks for the correction. Yeah the stock Michelins are pretty terrible... so its safe to assume the A/S 3s will be a marked improvement in all aspects? Ride/comfort, road noise and dry/wet traction...

MardiGras

I cannot imagine any tire, especially from a top-tier brand like Michelin, that is not magnitudes better than the Pilot HX MXM4.

You may want to seriously consider the Primacy MXM4, which exhibits less noise, better ride/comfort, improved traction, and a higher mileage warranty versus the Pilot HX MXM4. Do a search on tirerack.com

mynameisjacob

But how will A/S-3 compare with Primacy MXM4? I mean the price difference is insignificant. They are both all-seasons... but I guess the difference lies in the fact that one is ultra high performance and the other (primacy) is listed as grand touring.

docboy

Compared to the A/S+, dry traction is much better with the A/S 3.
Compared to the A/S+, wet traction is better with the A/S 3.
Compared to the A/S+, snow traction during braking and turning seems worse off in the A/S 3; once the car is in forward motion, the A/S 3 seems do well in the snow. Otherwise during braking/turning I've encountered slippage with the A/S 3.

So I'm not sure if the A/3s questionable snow traction is b/c my A/S 3s are still fairly new or if due to design or compound material. I'll wait for the next snow storm or when I head off to the ski resorts again and provide more feedback on the A/S 3s snow/ice traction.

But at this point, I would say yes, I would prefer the A/S+ over the A/S 3 at this time due to the A/S+ better performance in the snow/ice. IMHO.

Oddly enough, the older A/S+ costs more than the newer A/S 3 at both Discount Tires and Costco in my area.

WolfieRules

Found this link on TireRack, winter testing update video of A/S + compared with RE970, Conti DWS, and some Pirelli.


http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....ort+A%2FS+Plus


They haven't tested AS3 in snow yet, but interesting to note, for the A/S +, for non winter driving, they said they'd improve Wet Handling and Traction, which the AS3 does by leaps and bounds....


Once again, when it comes to tire design, everything is a balancing act, aka compromise.

WolfieRules

Found this, pretty interesting comparison of MXM, Pilot Sport A/S and 'real' winter tires, curiously, the MXM compared favorably with Pilot A/S in winter driving,
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...mparison-tests

gdcwatt

Here's my review of the A/S 3, comparing these tires on a 2012 Focus SE with Sport Pkg, 6AT (215/55-16) vs a Mazda P5 4AT (newer struts, brakes, it works well) with new Conti DWS tires (195/55-15) in light snow. I thought the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3 tires were completely useless, and potentially dangerous, in any amount of snow. And if AWD lets your car go, I'd still be concerned about that car's ability to turn, or stop - and they're not even any fun.

https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-tires-wheels-suspension-97/anyone-have-new-michelin-pilot-sport-s-3-tires-899806/

Oh, btw, Michelin Canada suggested that I have the dealer check that the tire pressure, and everything else, is ok.

lowchef

Just picked up a set at my local sears. The drive home on wet roads was great.. Once they break in ill report back with any findings.