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Update on 3.7 SH-AWD Oil Burning and Screech On Start
Good Afternoon Everyone,
I wanted to make a separate thread to update everyone.
To make a long story short, my car had been experiencing a screech on cold starts. Well, yesterday morning I dropped the vehicle off at my Acura dealer.
I receive a call about twenty minutes ago. They advised me the starter is shot and will be replacing that. I'm cool with that. No issues.
However, the next issue will blow your mind.
**ALL 3.7L SH-AWD OWNERS PLEASE READ**
I had experienced a loss/burning of oil (2 quarts /1000 miles a few weeks prior).
They added back 2-quarts on my last visit and would do a oil consumption test in 1000 miles.
Anyway, when I had started the car yesterday to take her in to the dealer, the car gave off blue smoke and REEKED of burning oil. I was shocked, as I never had seen the blue smoke. It burned your eyes it was so bad.
I advised the dealer about the smoke and odor and he immediately took the car back and gave me a loaner.
I got the call twenty minutes ago that the engine is a complete loss.
The oil was leaking heavily past the piston seals. It is going to be at the least $8k for the engine alone. Not including labor or anything else.
Anyway, Acura tried to BS around and try to not fix it.
They tried blaming me (the driver), not doing oil changes, and other BS stuff.
Turns out, I've always had the car serviced at the dealer, done all my required services, and babied the car. (never beat on her)
My dealership went to bat for me and fought. They proved I did EVERYTHING to keep the car in optimal condition. They presented all the records and Acura had no choice but to APPROVE the claim.
My dealer advised me it will be about a week until he can get the starter and engine in.
Acura is NOW taking this very, very seriously.
I guess they want to inspect and figure out why the engine failed.
Acura is now kissing my ass and advising me to keep the issue quiet.
I couldn't do that to my Acurazine friends.
It will be another week or so until all the parts are in.
I'm stuck in this terrible ILX for a while until my car is fixed.
I will really miss my baby.
Here's the kicker, the car lost a quart in 250 miles. (since my last appointment a few weeks ago!)
I'm glad I bought the AcuraCare extended policy! It has truly paid off!
For those with oil burning issues, get it in to the dealer and FIGHT!
If anyone has any questions, please feel free to PM me or reply to this post!
the piston rings are no good and your oil consumption woes will continue with the brand new engine.
This is most likely the reason why they moved back to 3.5l engines in all of Acura's current line up. because the ringlands on the J37 pistons keep having trouble sealing.
Yes, we do know the cause.
Shitty piston rings. Hasn't Acura fixed the piston rings on the J37?
I assume they're pretty serious if they're flying in engineers...
Hey, I can't complain right now. It's better than nothing.
That is good news for you OP,luckily your dealer stood by your side.Shame on Acura for trying to deny your claim despite evidence showing the car was maintained as required.
I don't understand how some 3.7 have this issue and some don't, perhaps there was a bad batch of rings ?
To date i have not had to add any oil to my car between oil changes, keeping my fingers crossed that it stays that way.
That is good news for you OP,luckily your dealer stood by your side.Shame on Acura for trying to deny your claim despite evidence showing the car was maintained as required.
I don't understand how some 3.7 have this issue and some don't, perhaps there was a bad batch of rings ?
To date i have not had to add any oil to my car between oil changes, keeping my fingers crossed that it stays that way.
Yeah, my dealer is awesome.
He went to bat for a good customer.
I do every service there. (except engine/cabin filters)
Even then, I still purchase the part from him and do it myself.
Yeah, my dealer thru all the service records in Acura's face.
They had no choice but to make good on their engine.
I spoke to my dealer again, he thinks it was a bad batch of rings.
He advised me this is the THIRD 3.7 TL that he's had to replace the engine.
However, he does checkups for 1-2 years after and those cars haven't had a problem since engine replacement.
Does anyone know if I need to drive the car a certain way?
Considering it's a new engine/short block...
Please let me know!
I know that i has been repeatedly said that no break in period is required.However it won't hurt to take it easy for the first 500 miles or so.Better to err of the side of caution lol.
From new our cars has a "break in " oil which is supposed to help seat and bed engine components.I drove my car easy ie under 4k rpm for approx 2k kms when i purchased it.
I know that i has been repeatedly said that no break in period is required.However it won't hurt to take it easy for the first 500 miles or so.Better to err of the side of caution lol.
From new our cars has a "break in " oil which is supposed to help seat and bed engine components.I drove my car easy ie under 4k rpm for approx 2k kms when i purchased it.
Yeah, I think I will take it easy the first 500.
Would they put the "break in oil" in my new engine/shortblock?
If not, should it be okay? I ALWAYS use full synthetic if that helps..
When I recently changed the timing belt, I notice a lot of oil deposits just below the valve cover rubber gaskets on the outside of the cylinder heads. Notorious in all J engines, I guess. The same thing happen on my older 3G TL and the '03 Accord v6. After I re-installed the valve covers with new OEM rubber gaskets and cleaned up everything down there, just below the valve covers, it doesn't seem to accumulate any more dirt around that area. 2k miles later I see no incredible levels of oil consumption as before the timing belt and valve adjustment. Also for some reason oil is at 90% after 2k miles. Should have been at 80%.
Maybe a fraction of a millimeter adjustment on the exhaust valves that got a bit tight after 100k miles did the trick? Maybe the OEM rubber gaskets that came with the car were crap too? Maybe the fresh coolant helps keep things a bit more cool? Maybe the new spark plugs improved things in general? I don't know.
I do understand that there is evidence out there about the piston rings, either not installed properly or poor/defective material... but I think the oil consumption of J engines may be the result of a combination of issues and not just one issue.
In any case, check for excessive oil deposits around the valve cover rubber gaskets, front and rear banks...
PS. OP: yep, if you scream loud enough to Honda they'll listen. LOL.
When I recently changed the timing belt, I notice a lot of oil deposits just below the valve cover rubber gaskets on the outside of the cylinder heads. Notorious in all J engines, I guess. The same thing happen on my older 3G TL and the '03 Accord v6. After I re-installed the valve covers with new OEM rubber gaskets and cleaned up everything down there, just below the valve covers, it doesn't seem to accumulate any more dirt around that area. 2k miles later I see no incredible levels of oil consumption as before the timing belt and valve adjustment. Also for some reason oil is at 90% after 2k miles. Should have been at 80%.
Maybe a fraction of a millimeter adjustment on the exhaust valves that got a bit tight after 100k miles did the trick? Maybe the OEM rubber gaskets that came with the car were crap too? Maybe the fresh coolant helps keep things a bit more cool? Maybe the new spark plugs improved things in general? I don't know.
I do understand that there is evidence out there about the piston rings, either not installed properly or poor/defective material... but I think the oil consumption of J engines may be the result of a combination of issues and not just one issue.
In any case, check for excessive oil deposits around the valve cover rubber gaskets, front and rear banks...
PS. OP: yep, if you scream loud enough to Honda they'll listen. LOL.
Thanks for your two cents! It really made me think.
I'm thinking that definitely bad piston rings play a major part. No doubt.
I also agree that there may be other factors that play into the engine essentially failing, as it did in my case. I'm sure they will know (hopefully) a bit more once they take it apart and reps from the factory get a look at it.
If I find anything else out from them, I'll be posting it here.
The engine and starter should be in around Tuesday. Appt for Wednesday.
I'm hoping that they will take their time and install everything correctly.
Yes, lol my poor service advisor had to duke it out with Acura.
It goes to show there is still people out there dedicated to customer service.
For the commitment they've shown to me, I would have no problem picking up a SH-AWD RLX. (hoping for a refresh design wise) *Aluminum Trim and Exhaust* lol
^ also after losing/buring all this oil... inquire the dealer about the health of the catalytic converters and O2 sensors on them. Unless you are getting new ones too. Hopefuly they haven't suffered any damage from all that burned oil, but you never know.
^ also after losing/buring all this oil... inquire the dealer about the health of the catalytic converters and O2 sensors on them. Unless you are getting new ones too. Hopefuly they haven't suffered any damage from all that burned oil, but you never know.
Thank you so much!
I didn't even think of it!
I will certainly inquire about those two things.
I want the car fixed well.
Considering I'll be selling it next year for a RLX or most likely a M5.
I wanted to update everyone regarding the engine replacement.
I dropped my vehicle off yesterday morning and was given a loaner.
They got the engine apart and called me to notify me the timing belt tensioner is leaking/failed. I'm working with Acura to get this part covered. It shouldn't have failed this soon. (50k)
I wanted to share some pics from my SA.
The picture shows the subframe and engine separated from the vehicle.
I will update everyone as I know more!
This has been an issue ever since the 6th gen V6 Accords actually.
My J30A1 showed blow by at around 90k miles. I bought my 2001 Accord V6 used from a 1 owner @ 44k miles who used synthetic. I used conventional from then on.
When I had the J35A3 litre swapped in we looked at the cylinders and inspected the rings. Yep, rings rings showed signs of going bad.
I also know of a 7th gen Accord V6 owner on V-6-P that had the piston rings going bad at around 50k miles, causing oil blow by. And the same goes for a 7th Gen Accord 4 cylinder owner on V-6-P. Can't remember his mileage actually.
For some reason the problem appears to be sporatic and Honda never acknowledge the issue. Perhaps from bad batches of rings, or they were installed incorrectly?
I guess they stayed with a shitty design and now it is beginning to bite them in the ass.
All I can recommend is use Conventional oil from the start. 10w30.
The screech/oil consumption has me thinking of ditching the car to be honest.
This is insane. Between potential catastrophic transmission failure or catastrophic engine failure, I don't see how this particular model is offering that comfort of long run dependability. Do we have members on here that have put like 200,000 miles on their 3.7's with no issues? I put an easy 150,000 miles on my CLS6 and never an engine issue. Ever. And those were hard driven miles.
Is it like 1% of TL SH's affected, in which case, acceptable I guess. I think because we are on this forum, we are vocal so issues are magnified.
For what its worth,
- I have a screech on very cold starts (i.e. under 0 degrees celsius)
- My oil life is at 50% but dipstick shows full
- Car has 64,000km (40,000 miles).
The screech/oil consumption has me thinking of ditching the car to be honest.
This is insane. Between potential catastrophic transmission failure or catastrophic engine failure, I don't see how this particular model is offering that comfort of long run dependability. Do we have members on here that have put like 200,000 miles on their 3.7's with no issues? I put an easy 150,000 miles on my CLS6 and never an engine issue. Ever. And those were hard driven miles.
Is it like 1% of TL SH's affected, in which case, acceptable I guess. I think because we are on this forum, we are vocal so issues are magnified.
For what its worth,
- I have a screech on very cold starts (i.e. under 0 degrees celsius)
- My oil life is at 50% but dipstick shows full
- Car has 64,000km (40,000 miles).
I find my 4G TL to be very reliable.
I haven't had any major issues except for the engine burning oil.
My SA advised me the replacement engine I received is brand new (not reman) and has the revised piston rings.
1. The Screech - Have Dealer Check and/or replace starter motor or timing belt tensioner.
2. The oil life saying 50% is on the MID, correct?
The MID tells you how long until oil change is needed.
It won't reflect the level shown on your dipstick.
I wanted to update everyone on the progress on my vehicle since I dropped it off on Monday.
I finally picked up the vehicle tonight.
The engine runs smooth as butter.
The dealer replaced the engine with a brand new engine from the factory.
I've been told the new engine is NOT a reman, it is NEW.
I was told the engine features Acura's revised rings..hopefully that will fix the issue from this point on...
They also replaced the starter motor due to the screech I had experienced on cold starts. (30 degrees and below)
The timing belt was replaced with a new belt for the new engine.
The timing belt tensioner was leaking, so that was also replaced.
Since getting the car back, I haven't encountered any squeaks, bangs, rattles, or odd noises. They did an excellent job getting the new engine installed in under a week.
However, I did notice a serious issue upon driving off the lot.
The car is torque steering to the right. My dealer's service dept. was closed when I picked up the vehicle, or it would have been rectified right then and there. The car is pulling very hard to the right, so maybe an alignment issue or something. I booked an appointment for this coming Tuesday, so we'll see why it's pulling.
Also, I'm getting the odor of burnt antifreeze coming from the engine bay. That will also be investigated at the appt. on Tuesday.
Other than those two issues, I'm very pleased with the repair.
They also sent the car out to be clay barred and three stage waxed.
I've never seen the car look this good. Damn!
Here's some pics of the repair for those who are curious
The old engine short block removed.
The tech rebuilding the J37 beast!
New Starter Motor Installed on the New Engine
The new engine installed, finishing touches and final assembly.
The TL waxed and detailed. <br/>Look at that shine!
Well, I have an appointment at Acura today at 1pm for: the screech on startup, radio buttons not working, and the harsh shifting from between gears 1, 2 & 3. Hopefully the service guys will be good to me and not dismiss anything as "normal". Will update when I come back. I gotta drive an hour so it better be worth it, lol.
I find my 4G TL to be very reliable.
I haven't had any major issues except for the engine burning oil.
My SA advised me the replacement engine I received is brand new (not reman) and has the revised piston rings.
1. The Screech - Have Dealer Check and/or replace starter motor or timing belt tensioner.
2. The oil life saying 50% is on the MID, correct?
The MID tells you how long until oil change is needed.
It won't reflect the level shown on your dipstick.
Hope this helped.
I agree with everything you've said here. My TL's been rock solid as well except for the oil burning issue, but it's not been excessive. Did they ever give you a p/n for those revised piston rings?
I agree with everything you've said here. My TL's been rock solid as well except for the oil burning issue, but it's not been excessive. Did they ever give you a p/n for those revised piston rings?
Sorry for the late reply, been super busy since I got the TL back.
I can look up my service info online and see if there is a part number there.
I doubt it considering since they replaced the engine as a whole.
I wanted to update everyone since I got the car back.
I haven't had the chance to update everyone since I've been swamped starting my own business.
Anyway, the issue with the car was resolved by the dealer.
Apparently, the alignment was rung in the system, but the tech forgot to perform it.
The tech did the alignment, no issues since.
Also, the odor of burnt antifreeze was simply residual.
Since my engine replacement, the car has run perfectly.
I no longer have the dreaded "screech" at cold start or the smell of burning oil.
My guys at Acura did an amazing job on the vehicle. No squeaks or rattles.
If your TL is burning oil, don't accept the excuses.
If you push hard enough, you too shall get a new engine
Well, I have an appointment at Acura today at 1pm for: the screech on startup, radio buttons not working, and the harsh shifting from between gears 1, 2 & 3. Hopefully the service guys will be good to me and not dismiss anything as "normal". Will update when I come back. I gotta drive an hour so it better be worth it, lol.
Be sure they check the timing belt tensioner and the starter.
I'd have to guarantee the screech on start is a burnt out starter.
My 3.7 use to burn oil. After the major timing belt/valve lash adjustment/spark plug/ etc service... it doesn't. I am at 30% and the dip stick is in the middle. Not barely below the bottom as before.
So what happened here? Did the valve adjustment do the trick?
(unless the dealership switched engines on me and didn't tell me LOL LOL)
My 3.7 use to burn oil. After the major timing belt/valve lash adjustment/spark plug/ etc service... it doesn't. I am at 30% and the dip stick is in the middle. Not barely below the bottom as before.
So what happened here? Did the valve adjustment do the trick?
(unless the dealership switched engines on me and didn't tell me LOL LOL)
I find my 4G TL to be very reliable.
I haven't had any major issues except for the engine burning oil.
My SA advised me the replacement engine I received is brand new (not reman) and has the revised piston rings.
1. The Screech - Have Dealer Check and/or replace starter motor or timing belt tensioner.
2. The oil life saying 50% is on the MID, correct?
The MID tells you how long until oil change is needed.
It won't reflect the level shown on your dipstick.
Hope this helped.
Congrats on the new engine and you're perseverance. I'm interested in your comment about revised piston rings - Could you find out why Acura revised the piston rings and what would be the difference between the original ones and the revised ones?
I got a letter from Acura today (02/19/2019) that they're extending the 6 yr/70k mile warranty to 8 yr/125k miles to cover 2010-13 MDX, 2011-12 RL, 2009-14 TL, and 2010-13 ZDX for the oil control rings that cause excessive oil consumption due to them becoming clogged and restricting oil from returning to the crank case.
I got a letter from Acura today (02/19/2019) that they're extending the 6 yr/70k mile warranty to 8 yr/125k miles to cover 2010-13 MDX, 2011-12 RL, 2009-14 TL, and 2010-13 ZDX for the oil control rings that cause excessive oil consumption due to them becoming clogged and restricting oil from returning to the crank case.
Also got the letter. Already working with the dealer to perform oil burning test. we got another appointment tomorrow to do the 3rd test. Hopefully, they will approve the repairs.
Also received my letter today. For the people who have started the oil consumption test, is "normal" still 1 quart per 1k miles? I've read a few different responses from different dealers. One person in Canada said the dealer said 1 liter per 3k km is eligible for the replacement.
Also received my letter today. For the people who have started the oil consumption test, is "normal" still 1 quart per 1k miles? I've read a few different responses from different dealers. One person in Canada said the dealer said 1 liter per 3k km is eligible for the replacement.
I was told by the dealer a couple years back that they won't do anything unless I'm burning at least 1qt per 1k miles. Mathematically that doesn't make sense of course. The oil tank holds 4.5 quarts and the oil change light doesn't come on until after 5k miles. Someone in that situation would blow up the engine before their next oil change.
11-19-2014, 02:16 PM
Update on 3.7 SH-AWD Oil Burning and Screech On Start
It really made me think. 
