Gibbs

When I bought my new 2014 TL W/Tech package I let the Dealer talk me into buying their oil and filter change for life contract for $599.00. The dealer made it sound like a great deal. Up to 2 oil changes in any calendar year, 5,000 miles or 6 months which ever comes first, full synthetic oil. For as long as I own the car.... Sound too good to be true? It was! The dealer was not changing the oil and filter every time I took the car in for an oil change! In the spring of 2016 I first suspected the dealer was not changing the oil and I confronted the service advisor about it. Fool me once.

In April of 2017, after the car had sit in the garage pretty much through the winter after 6 months since the previous oil change Oct 2016, I again took the car in for an oil change. This spring I took the car to the dealer May 1 of this year (2018) for an oil change. I had bought the wife a new Audi Q5 in march of 2017 and through the year of 2017 the Acura TL pretty much sit in the garage. When I took the car to the dealer this May, (2018), the oil supposedly only had 800 miles on it. Note the last oil change had a year on it, (April 2017 to May 2018). As per the oil change contract 6 months had well passed.

When the dealer's service advisor said the car was done I was bit surprised. Oil and filter change and multi point inspection all in about 15 minutes. I drove the car to the Audi dealer's lot next door, popped the hood and pulled out the oil dipstick to check the oil level. The oil was brown in color. And not light brown in color. Clean fresh full synthetic 0-20W Mobil One oil will show clear on a dipstick. I knew it would be a waste of time taking the car immediately back to the dealer. I did that before in the spring of 2016.

I drove the car home at tops 6 miles from the dealer's. I drove my F150, (my regular driver) to the Honda dealer near me and bought a new oil filter and a half dozen drain plug washers. I asked the guy at the parts counter who makes Honda's oil? He replied it's full synthetic 0-20W Mobil One. I went to Walmart and bought a 5 quarts container of the oil.

I changed the oil and filter myself.
When I pulled the oil pan plug I couldn't believe how dark the oil was as it drained from the oil pan! Was I pissed? You bet. I had trusted the dealer's service garage to preform the work I had paid for.

When I checked the oil level on the dipstick the new fresh oil was clear in color as it should be......

I took a clean dry empty drinking water bottle and filled it 3/4 the way full with the oil I drained from the oil pan. I took the bottle of oil, the receipt for the Honda oil filter, and Mobil One oil, and drove the Acura TL to the dealer. I asked to speak to the General Manager. I was told he was busy but I could speak to his assistant manager. I sit the bottle of dirty oil on the desk along with the receipts. I then proceeded to tell the guy my story. Not once did he interrupt me or try to defend the service garage. Even when I said if the garage was screwing me, by not changing the oil in my car, I would bet I was not the only one they were screwing. The guy still didn't try to defend the garage... (Just to be clear I am not that naive to believe the fraud didn't go higher than the service garage. The holder of the oil for live oil and filter change contract is held by the parent company that owns the dealership. There may have been two counts of fraud being committed. The dealer bills a company owned by the parent company, (same name as the parent company), for the service rendered.



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TacoBello

So what did the assistant manager say? I can't imagine you told him the story and he just walked away after... curious to know how he handled it.

Are they going to do anything about it? Are you going to take it any higher? That certainly at least sounds like they were defrauding you... you paid for a service that they are not completing now, and go as far as to pretend they do, but don't actually.

losiglow

iTrader: (1)

Wow. I'd expect that from some corner lube shop but not the dealer. It's amazing how the dealer is supposed to be the experts on their cars and do everything by the book. Yet you hear story after story of things like this, as well as incorrect oil, wrong parts or incorrect diagnosis again and again and again.

I know we're not all gearheads. And even those of us that are, don't necessarily want to get under the car and get all messy with an oil change. But with stories like these, that are all too common, I don't see myself resorting to having another shop (even the dealer apparently....) perform an oil change on my car. Not until my knees give out and I can't physically get under a car. Then I'll probably have my son do it.

Here's an interesting vid. I love the brake flush claim. It takes at least a half hour or longer (probably closer to a good hour) to do a brake system bleed. Somehow they did it as well as power steering and oil in 15 minutes.....

thoiboi

So at what point are you getting a lawyer involved

TacoBello

I tend to do all my fluid changes myself... for the sole reason that I don't trust the dealerships, or any shop, for that matter. I'm sure plenty of them do good work, but I don't want to potentially deal with a headache of having to go back and fight with them about something that they should have done in the first place.

I remember about 25 years ago, my old man took his car to a quick lube place. He would always change oil himself, but for some reason that one time he had to go in. He drove a few blocks away afterwards and thought something was strange... checked the dipstick and there was zero oil showing up on it. Great. Wonder how much damage was done. What did the quick lube place say? "Drive back and we'll fix it"... and that's about the moment he lost his $hit on them, telling them they were out of their minds if he thought he was going to drive another meter without oil in the engine.

I don't overly enjoy doing fluid changes, but it keeps my pocket book happy and it gives me peace of mind the work was done right.

TacoBello

Is it even worth the trouble? I mean, OP paid $600 bucks for the service, a few years ago. I can't imagine going the lawyer route would be any cheaper than that... and you have no guarantee of winning either... you might end up being out double out of pocket... and maybe that's exactly what the dealership is expecting to happen.

Greasy tactic. I wonder if it's worth calling Acura Customer Relations, or whatever it's called. I can't imagine they'd do much about the dealership ripping people off, but who knows.

thoiboi

IANAL but you'd be suing on the premise of "breach of contract" not just for the 600 bucks.. Contacting ACS is a good call, bad yelp reviews,etc. to show everyone that greasy dealer is greasy... But I'd probably do it in this order if it were me ACS > Lawyer > Yelp.

losiglow

iTrader: (1)

I think ACS would be a good option. I'd bet they'd offer some type of compensation for the issue. I mean, Acura is supposed to be a luxury brand with exceptional customer service and premium facilities and staff. Occurrences like this aren't acceptable at any dealership, let alone a luxury brand. I'd never expect this to happen at a Lexus, Audi or BMW dealership. It's not that you necessarily want to get someone in trouble, but you'd be doing others a service by reporting a dodgy dealership that's likely screwing other people over as well.

Gibbs

The manager said he wanted talk to the service manager. I said don't waste your time. The service manager is quite aware of what goes on in his garage. In fact, jmho, the General Manager does too.

I drove the TL to the Dealer in hopes the manager I talked with would ask to see the color of the oil on the dipstick. He did not, nor did I really expect him to. The guy knew I had him dead to right.

At the end of our meeting I told him I would not be back. I would never buy another vehicle from the Dealer. I would tell my story to anyone that would listen. The guy just looked down at the table and said nothing.

What's next? Tell my story to anyone that wants to listen.
Hopefully anyone reading my thread will avoid buying an oil and filter change for life contract.
If you have your oil changed check the color of the oil on the dipstick. New fresh full synthetic Mobil One oil will not be brown in color.
If you have a TL it is easy to put an identifying mark on the oil filter before taking the car in for an oil change. (I now know it can be easily seen by turning the front wheels to the right. It can be seen on the passenger right side between the tire and wheel well. Can't miss that blue oil filter.)

As for taking it higher? To who? Not a lawyer for sure. Not over $599.00.

For what it's worth the parent company that owns the Acura dealership also owns the Audi Dealership next door, and the Volkswagen dealership next to it. They also own the BMW Dealership in my area. They own dealerships all across the country. At the very least they are a Billion dollar company.

At my aged I have learned long ago to lick my wounds and move on...... But remember, and not make the same mistake again. I did not let the Audi dealer talk me into buying the oil & filter change for life contract when I bought the new Q5 in 2017. The Q5 is a great vehicle and fun to drive. It beats the Acura TL hands down. With all that said I will not buy another new one from the Audi dealer in my area. Not as long as the same parent company owns them.

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TacoBello

Thoiboi brought up a good point- you aren't suing to get your $599 back. You're suing them for unethical and fraudulent business practices. You have a chance to walk away with a lot more than just the $599.

csmeance

^ Agree, report it to your local FBI branch too since it's considered fraud and on a federal level if the parent company is in another state. You might not be the only one as you stated.

losiglow

iTrader: (1)

I still say bring it up with ACS. No money spent. The only outcome for you would be positive or neutral.

frankjnjr

I'm thinking, losiglow has the best action. Unless, one has little better to do, and unlimited free time, a legal action, could be expensive, time consuming, and wrought with frustration. The Dealer Group, in question, would most likely claim, ( One time anomaly ), apologize, and offer a one time adjustment, on the service package. Conversely, Hopefully, ACS would take the issue SERIOUSLY, investigate, and level appropriate action! Unfortunately, this type of "TRADE " practice, is all too common, as witnessed in the video, previously posted! If, I take my Acura, to an Acura Dealer, for service, and pay a PREMIUM to do so, I have a right to expect the highest level of service integrity, in the industry!

TacoBello

OP is 70 years old, apparently (According to his profile/avatar/whatever)... I get the feeling he's not working 9-5 and raising young children and driving to soccer practice and music lessons after. I see my old man at over 70 years of age, and I dunno... seems he has plenty of time these days

I too think starting with ACS is a good idea... but.. I'm not sure how far it will go. Each dealership is individually owned. I highly doubt Acura will do an in depth investigation and send undercover agents in to see what kind of business practices are being implemented at the dealership... and also.. there's two sides to every story. I'm not saying OP isn't be honest and forth coming.. but... we are hearing only one side of the argument... it's not the first time someone tried throwing another business under the bus. (again, not implying this is happening here, but it might be a stance that Acura takes.. alienating it's dealership network isn't in its best interests)

And also, let's be honest. Dealerships are greasy. Lots of dealerships, of whatever brand, are greasy. It's a greasy business and the greasiest dealerships rake in the most cash. I'm sure Acura is well aware some of their dealerships are greasy... but I doubt they're about to slap them around...

I disagree with Frank. He suggests Acura would do whatever possible... I'm not sure if I believe that. That $599 package, if not actually offered by Acura, but rather by the dealership, is an in house business/marketing move. Acura likely has zero say for something like service pricing (again, if not implemented by Acura itself). All the dealer really has to say is "oh, yeah. That was a super busy day for us. Something must've been missed in the service bay. We apologize. We'll do the oil change now and throw in a free car wash!"


Now if anything, I could see ACS do something along the lines of:

• extend engine warranty for that particular VIN.
• Refund the $599 to OP (this would be interesting... I wonder if Acura would then go after the dealer to recoup costs, or if they would just eat the claim)
• tell you they're very sorry and would love to keep you as a customer and maybe offer you something else, going forward, to keep OP with the brand.

But a lawsuit... especially if crossing state lines... and has the potential to turn into a class action lawsuit with a number of people coming forward... that would be fun.

JM2010 SH-AWD

Write a letter to the dealer's general manager and include documentation and photos. Ask them to refund your $600. I'll bet they do. If they don't, send all the documentation to ACS. I have a feeling you will be made whole. This is really outrageous. I wonder how much engine damage was caused by these crooks misleading people into thinking they were maintaining their cars properly only to find out that they'd been running the same old oil far in excess of the maintenance schedule. I certainly would never deal again with any of this outfit's dealerships, but I would also not let them off so easy. They are crooks - pure and simple. Acura needs to know this.

dregsfan

And if ACS won't do anything, contact the consumer advocate at your local TV station and tell your story. If it makes the news I bet you get the $600 back pronto.

losiglow

iTrader: (1)

I think the primary purpose in raising a stink (with whatever method you choose) would be to discourage the dealership from their dishonest practice. Yeah, if you get something out of it, great. I'm not pretending to be a high and mighty altruist, but I think if this happened to me I'd just want to be the pain-in-the-ass customer enough to motivate them to do what's right for the next customer that comes through the door.

No offense, but you made the mistake of purchasing the maintenance contract. Nearly ANY maintenance contract, extended warranty or service plan is a scam. Or at the very least, an insurance policy which statistically pays the seller more than the anticipated costs they'll incur. Yes, you'll find the occasional individual who had some really expensive repair that was covered or enough service that mathematically made sense when you crunch the numbers. But the vast majority end up paying more than the service or repair (if ever needed or actually honored by the seller) would have cost without the plan.

I have literally (I don't use that word lightly BTW, unlike the 22 year old girls at the club that say things like "I literally died when I saw her outfit") NEVER incurred a cost with an extended warranty or service contract that was higher than the warranty or service itself. In fact, most of the time, the cost was $0. In other words, nothing ever went wrong. Microwaves, headphones, laptops, cars, vacuums, almost any electronic gadget at Walmart or Best Buy, refrigerator, garage door opener, plumbing services, tankless water heater, TV, pressure washer, electric impact gun, electric drill, washing machine and dryer, ---takes a breath---, carpet cleaner, carpet cleaning service, trampoline (wtf?), piano, kids trumpet, tires, lawnmower, chainsaw, generator and roof (yes, a new roof). NEVER purchased the stupid extended warranty or service control. 90% have never had any problems within the time frame the warranty or contract would have covered them OR didn't cost anywhere near what the warranty or contract would have cost when they did have a minor repair.

Sorry for the rant and derail of the thread. But that crap is all designed to make money. Anyone in the financial advice or planning profession will tell you to always skip the extended warranty and service plans. They're no different than gambling; you might come out ahead but the odds are stacked against you.

TacoBello

Do you not have car insurance? Because that's how insurance works. And that's what maintenance plans are modelled after. Ah, statistics... so you're upset these companies are in the business of making money?

All people are buying is peace of mind, whether supposed or actual.

Gibbs

Guys,

Had the dealer not have turned out to be a crook I would have been ahead of the game.

2014, 2 oil changes
2015, 2 oil changes
2016, 2 oil changes
2017, 1 oil change (April of 2017. Only put 800 miles on the car in 2017)
2018, 1 oil change. (May 1, 2018)
2018, and so on.......

Again the wording in the contract.
"Synthetic Standard"
Oil and filter change
Every 6 months or 5,000 miles, up to 2 times in any calendar year.

I could care less about getting any of the $599.00 back from the crooks. What pisses me off is the A-holes were not changing the oil every 6 months when I took the car in for service. (The garage knew I was anal about the car. The underneath of the car still looks new as the day I bought it. The car has never seen snow since I bought it new. The only rain it has ever seen was if I got caught in the rain while driving it.

As for contacting Honda/Acura it would be a waste of time, imo. I would be willing to bet LITHIA is one of Acura's biggest customers.
Besides, Honda has had it's share of class action lawsuits against them. They are not saints by any means. It's all about money and the bottom line.
https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-...ction-lawsuit/
The 2014 Acura TL does not have the variable cylinder management system.

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.My experience with Dealer oil change for life contract.

I posted this thread to alert others that have purchased an oil for life contract. DON"T ASSUME the dealer is changing the oil every time you take the car in for an oil change.

If you have such a contract, before you take the vehicle in for an oil change.
1) Use a marker and put an identifying mark on the oil filter. Check the filter after the completed service.
2) Check the color of the oil on the dipstick. Fresh synthetic oil will be clear in color. NOT BROWN!

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losiglow

iTrader: (1)

Most of your comments are relatively well thought out. But you must have skipped your morning coffee on this one. It's totally apples and oranges here. Most insurance is legally required such as auto and home so the point is moot right away. But if you had the choice, and also considering medical and life insurance, you'd have the added variable of high risk which isn't a factor with extended warranties. Extended warranties are for lower risk issues like your microwave breaking or getting a tire puncture. Insurance is for things like your house burning down and getting cancer. The two are on completely different levels. Yes, the principle is the same. Insurance companies align themselves to be able to make money based on all the statistics. There's no argument there. But the risk is completely different which changes the game.

And no, certainly not against companies making money. I'm a capitalist through and through. But that's as dumb as saying you should buy something simply to allow a company to make money.

dregsfan

The OP purchased a service contract, which guaranteed up to 2 oil and filter changes per year, after 6 months or 5k miles whichever came first. If he met the mileage and time requirements specified in the contract, and the service wasn't done but the dealership says it was, THAT'S FRAUD. Pure and simple. He paid for a service and didn't get it. No different than if I bring my car to the dealer and request they change the oil & filter, but they don't perform the service, but say they did and charge me. The service contract isn't an extended warranty, where the warranty benefits may never be needed. Two entirely different things. I agree that many extended warranties turn out to be a waste of money, but that's not the issue here.

losiglow

iTrader: (1)

I agree that it's not quite the same thing. But I still don't think there are many service plans/contracts that are worth it. Granted, if you're going to get the work done anyways, and the service contract allows that work to be done at a lower price (per service), someone may opt for it. I'm guessing the price he paid was less than what all the oil changes would have cost individually.

Regardless, I'll never purchase one nor would I ever recommend someone purchase one. Whether it's pest control, automotive maintenance, window cleaning or lawn care. I rarely see the value in them and they're often things that you can easily do yourself. The exceptions are services that are "constant" or necessary. Phone and internet service for example. Or if you weren't hooked up to gas or sewer and needed propane or septic system service. I believe the others are designed to make money not just by selling the service itself (which is certainly legitimate) but also with the assumption (based on statistics) that the very least amount of service will be done and/or the customer won't request or remember the service is available and thus they're paying for nothing. Many of these plans are contingent on the customer remembering to request the service. This oil change thing for example - if the OP didn't need the change or only remembered to bring the car in one time that year, the 2nd one would have likely been forfeited. In other words, it probably wouldn't' be rolled into next year (eg. getting 1 one year and 3 the next). Statistically, that type of occurrence is common and makes that much more profit for the seller without doing the service.

If you're the type that doesn't want to bother with those things, and will follow up and stick to your guns with service contracts, it could definitely be worth it. If you're a "normal" individual with a busy life, any degree of technical skill and a bit of time, chances are you'll either overpay for a relatively simple service or fall into the category of what I've described above.

thoiboi

I agree.

I think I understand your point losiglow but you're off base here

Gibbs

Dealer retail price for the oil and filter change + multipoint inspection is $89.95. The Dealer bills the contract holder $40.00 for the service. (From Customer invoice sheet.)

Labor .................................$12.00
Honda 15400-PLM-A02 oil filter $4.40
Drain pan plug washer............. $0.30
Full Synthetic Motor Oil......... $23.30
........................................_______
............................................$40.00

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revray

I am curious about the 5K oil change interval. I have a 2012 TL Tech. Oil change interval is 10K miles. My maintenance minder comes on about 8500 miles. I generally do at 9500 just for peace of mind.
For oil changes, I bring to local Walmart and do the pit crew service (since I bought tires there, lifetime rotation). I purchase the Mobile 1 - 0W20 and a Fram filter. They replace the oil, filter, and rotate my tires. I also receive the remainder of the oil back in a nice zip lock baggie around the 5 Qt jug. IMHO, I can only speak for my experience there. I always do my transmission flush at the dealer when that maintenance is due. Only maintenance I have done at dealer is the transmission service (I am lazy), and I had the 105K (Timing belt, water pump, serpentine belt, etc...) done at the dealer. Good for another 105K.