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Anybody out there opt for 5W30 in their TL?
I am considering giving it a try. Ive learned that a thicker oil can help with padding knocks and pings,
in addition to greater engine protection.
Ive had Valve Adjustment, Have ONLY used 91 Octane fuel...and still there is a knock and ping more often than not.
I have also Used fuel Cleaner which works like a charm, but when i stop using it, the knock returns.
now I know people will say Acura has researched and the recommended 5W20 for our TL'S shouldn't be switched.
I am aware that it is reccomended, however Acura says its perfectly fine to use Acura 5w30 in the TL.
I would suggest if you're going to go with a "thicker" oil (it isn't really thicker, but that's a different discussion), then go with a 0W-20 or 0W-30; these oils are superior in every respect compared to their 5W-xx counterparts.
I would suggest if you're going to go with a "thicker" oil (it isn't really thicker, but that's a different discussion), then go with a 0W-20 or 0W-30; these oils are superior in every respect compared to their 5W-xx counterparts.
you lost me. You mean Ste OUTSIDE of teh "5" series oil to "0" Series oil?
you lost me. You mean Ste OUTSIDE of teh "5" series oil to "0" Series oil?
Here's the thing about oil, 5W-20, 5W-30, and 5W-40 are all effectively 5-weight oils; said another way, one isn't any "thicker" than the next. The difference is how much the oils thin as they get hot; there are two ways of preventing oils from thinning too much, 1) Viscosity Improvers (VIs), and 2) greater purity in the carbon chains. Conventional 5W-xx oils typically rely exclusively on VIs, high end synthetic oils primarily rely on pure carbon chains with some VIs added in when necessary (say when building a grade 0W-40 oil), synthetic blends rely on a combination of the two.
Here's the thing about oil, 5W-20, 5W-30, and 5W-40 are all effectively 5-weight oils; said another way, one isn't any "thicker" than the next. The difference is how much the oils thin as they get hot; there are two ways of preventing oils from thinning too much, 1) Viscosity Improvers (VIs), and 2) greater purity in the carbon chains. Conventional 5W-xx oils typically rely exclusively on VIs, high end synthetic oils primarily rely on pure carbon chains with some VIs added in when necessary (say when building a grade 0W-40 oil), synthetic blends rely on a combination of the two.
Is 93 octane available near you? Maybe worth giving it a try. I think it's a slight improvement for me over the 91. I know what you mean though. Typically with seafoam I have no knock or ping and smooths everything out, but it makes for an expensive tank of gas.
Not to derail the thread but have you considered Lucas oil stabilizer? I never read much about it on this forum, but I'm wondering if it would help address the pinging as well as peoples oil consumption woes.
Is 93 octane available near you? Maybe worth giving it a try. I think it's a slight improvement for me over the 91. I know what you mean though. Typically with seafoam I have no knock or ping and smooths everything out, but it makes for an expensive tank of gas.
Not to derail the thread but have you considered Lucas oil stabilizer? I never read much about it on this forum, but I'm wondering if it would help address the pinging as well as peoples oil consumption woes.
A lot of additives have positive or neutral feedback. Either it works (or is perceived to work) or it doesn't. But there's a lot of polarity with Lucas oil stabilizer on sites like bobistheoilguy.com where folks have claimed that it's not much more than a viscosity improver and reduces oil-foaming. If you wanted more viscosity, just buy a heavier weight oil And motor oil already has plenty of anti-foam additives. Some have claimed it sticks to everything and gums up the engine. Others say just to use it to quiet down the engine if you're looking to sell the car and want to hide the defects
It's bad enough to find out an additive doesn't do anything. It's worse to find out it can cause problems.
Is 93 octane available near you? Maybe worth giving it a try. I think it's a slight improvement for me over the 91. I know what you mean though. Typically with seafoam I have no knock or ping and smooths everything out, but it makes for an expensive tank of gas.
Not to derail the thread but have you considered Lucas oil stabilizer? I never read much about it on this forum, but I'm wondering if it would help address the pinging as well as peoples oil consumption woes.
As a fairly well traveled native Californian, I've never actually seen 93 Octane to my recollection ever...
Lucas Oil Deep CleanFuel System Cleaner works, and so does Lucas Oil Synthetic oil Stabilizer works as well, but when I stop using, the ping returns. And That makes for an expensive tank of gas after a while.
At least i can handle it with an oil switch instead perpetually treating oil and fuel in my car.
Last edited by mrphilipanderson; 04-24-2018 at 02:16 PM.
Reason: afterthought
Fuel labeled as 93 Octane isn't sold anywhere in the U.S., neither is 91, 89, or 87 for that matter.
Fuel sold in the U.S. is based upon AKI which is (RON+MON)/2; said another way, you can generally buy 87 AKI and 89 AKI in most localities, and then either 91 AKI or 93 AKI.
Lucas Deep CleanFuel System Cleaner does not work for any number of reasons. First and foremost, modern fuel has more than enough additives to keep all fuel systems perfectly clean; so clean there is nothing more for the Lucas stuff to clean. Second, if as you say, your engine pings when you don't used it, then there is something very-VERY wrong with your engine. Oddly enough, for many decades now it has been a truism the folks who swear most by fuel additives are folks who've used them to the point where they have caused deposits to form inside the combustion chamber causing hot spots which can encourage detonation (pinging). Said another way, using such additives become a self-fulfilling prophecy; once you start using them for any length of time, you cannot stop.
As for using Lucas oil stabilizer, what proof do you have it works; certainly not the pinging as the oil will have no impact on pinging.
Long story short, using Lucas products on these cars is just a fast way to drain your wallet.
Fuel labeled as 93 Octane isn't sold anywhere in the U.S., neither is 91, 89, or 87 for that matter.
Fuel sold in the U.S. is based upon AKI which is (RON+MON)/2; said another way, you can generally buy 87 AKI and 89 AKI in most localities, and then either 91 AKI or 93 AKI.
Lucas Deep CleanFuel System Cleaner does not work for any number of reasons. First and foremost, modern fuel has more than enough additives to keep all fuel systems perfectly clean; so clean there is nothing more for the Lucas stuff to clean. Second, if as you say, your engine pings when you don't used it, then there is something very-VERY wrong with your engine. Oddly enough, for many decades now it has been a truism the folks who swear most by fuel additives are folks who've used them to the point where they have caused deposits to form inside the combustion chamber causing hot spots which can encourage detonation (pinging). Said another way, using such additives become a self-fulfilling prophecy; once you start using them for any length of time, you cannot stop.
As for using Lucas oil stabilizer, what proof do you have it works; certainly not the pinging as the oil will have no impact on pinging.
Long story short, using Lucas products on these cars is just a fast way to drain your wallet.
Of Course lucas Oil works! I am entitled to my authentic experience. I added it, the pings went away...I stopped using it, they returned. To me, that is working. Who cares if its just a thickener, or magic or whatever...my needs were met when i used the product.
however, I am seeking a longer term fix or seeking routes that dont require additives at all. I need to be clear, for me, lucas oil quieted my engine and made it velvet smooth. And this is not mere perception (for me). This is the opinion of the driver, quite familiar with the feel of his car. no amount of scientific jargon will make me change my opinion of my personal experience in using it.
On another note, I have a green light from Acura Client relations stating there is no damage recorded switching to this oil, however I can expect a decrease in fuel economy. I asked ho w much, he wouldn't say. He simply assured me it was highly likely.
I am okay with that. I just want the engine to purr, how its supposed to.
You missed the point; something is very wrong with your engine; there shouldn't be any audible pinging in your engine even if you run 87 AKI. All you're doing is making the issue worse with the extra deposits the Lucas stuff is causing to form inside your engine; sooner or later even Lucas sill not be able to stop detonation, and when that happens thing can rapidly go down hill from there, first mild detonation, then heavy detonation, then engine damage, pre-ignition, and then new engine.
If you want to prolong the life of your engine, get it fixed and don't use that stuff any longer.
You missed the point; something is very wrong with your engine; there shouldn't be any audible pinging in your engine even if you run 87 AKI. All you're doing is making the issue worse with the extra deposits the Lucas stuff is causing to form inside your engine; sooner or later even Lucas sill not be able to stop detonation, and when that happens thing can rapidly go down hill from there, first mild detonation, then heavy detonation, then engine damage, pre-ignition, and then new engine.
If you want to prolong the life of your engine, get it fixed and don't use that stuff any longer.
Can you tell this to the 3 acura Dealers oive taken it to that keep telling me nothing is wrong. Even you can see and you have never met my car, just from my story.
Ive had two valve adjustemnts...so yes I have resorted to finding solutions on my own. Lucas Oil is the FIRST Thing thats worked. So Whatever lucas oil does to the car, thats my problem that needs fixing.
I've never looked at the 3.7's oil spec; if 5W-20 is on the recommended list, then by definition a 0W-20 is not only okay, it is superior in every aspect.
I've never looked at the 3.7's oil spec; if 5W-20 is on the recommended list, then by definition a 0W-20 is not only okay, it is superior in every aspect.
i live in califnira. In a city that never seen snow. It pretty warm. Lets say I used 0-30. What keeps it form thinning. Im an agressive driver and I live in a warm climate.
Oil will ALWAYS thin as it gets warm; nature of the beast.
If you are using a 0W-30; you are talking exclusively about a synthetic oil; the better synthetics use a very pure carbon chain to build up a 0-weight oil. The more pure the carbon chain, the less the oil will thin as it gets warm; if the carbon chains are not pure enough to meet the 30 grade oil specification when hot, then "Viscosity Improvers" (VIs) will be required to maintain oil viscosity.
Regardless of how warm it gets in California, 0W-20 is more than sufficient for the J-Series engines; I rather doubt 0W-30 would provide any additional benefit.
I've never looked at the 3.7's oil spec; if 5W-20 is on the recommended list, then by definition a 0W-20 is not only okay, it is superior in every aspect.
as per the manual it says 5w20. I noticed in one specific oil brand that I prefer Eneos Sustina their 0w20 Viscocity Index is 229 vs 5w30 Viscocity Index is 194. In this case would it be right to say the 0w20 is indeed superior as compared to the 5w30?
as per the manual it says 5w20. I noticed in one specific oil brand that I prefer Eneos Sustina their 0w20 Viscocity Index is 229 vs 5w30 Viscocity Index is 194. In this case would it be right to say the 0w20 is indeed superior as compared to the 5w30?
It all depends upon which 5W-30 you're talking about. The thing is, 5W-30 typically uses the cheapest/lowest quality base stocks where as 0W-20 typically use the highest; that said, there are some 5W-30s which are pretty good. Personally, I use 0W-20 regardless of weather conditions or where I'll be driving.
It all depends upon which 5W-30 you're talking about. The thing is, 5W-30 typically uses the cheapest/lowest quality base stocks where as 0W-20 typically use the highest; that said, there are some 5W-30s which are pretty good. Personally, I use 0W-20 regardless of weather conditions or where I'll be driving.
I'll add one thing. Dealers don't know everything, actually they usually know jack shit. So if you took the car to three different dealers, and they all said "yeah sure go ahead and use Lucas oil additives", then they are doing two things. 1. being nice to a new customer to gain their business, and 2. purposely telling you to use Lucas oil knowing it will cause more harm than anything - in an attempt for you to pay them for services afterwards (highly unlikely). I believe you have a 4G TL, and if your experiencing pinging, your engine is fucked man. My brother owns a 2012 TL and that thing is rock solid, he also switched to using 87 octane and has had no issues (he's a cheap ass)
good luck to you in your quest to cure the pinging, cuz that shits a dark road downhill man
Geez, no kidding. I went into our Acura dealer recently to get some ATF. I had an online parts coupon which made it cheaper than the Honda dealership. Anyway, they're a good dealership. Very helpful and friendly. But one of the guys was suggesting I upgrade to the TLX. I asked him a few questions about the ZF transmission change from 2015/16 to the 2018 A-spec models. He had absolutely no idea what the heck I was even talking about. I also asked whether the TLX engine was direct injection or standard port injection. I believe I heard they were direct injection but didn't know for sure. I could understand on the transmission but damn, DI vs PFI is a pretty big deal. Again, no idea. I looked on the window sticker and sure enough, the very first line under Standard Equipment: "290 hp Direct Injection 3.5L".
Salespeople are there to sell cars. If you want information on anything technical, it seems you have to find out on the interwebs.
Geez, no kidding. I went into our Acura dealer recently to get some ATF. I had an online parts coupon which made it cheaper than the Honda dealership. Anyway, they're a good dealership. Very helpful and friendly. But one of the guys was suggesting I upgrade to the TLX. I asked him a few questions about the ZF transmission change from 2015/16 to the 2018 A-spec models. He had absolutely no idea what the heck I was even talking about. I also asked whether the TLX engine was direct injection or standard port injection. I believe I heard they were direct injection but didn't know for sure. I could understand on the transmission but damn, DI vs PFI is a pretty big deal. Again, no idea. I looked on the window sticker and sure enough, the very first line: "290 hp Direct Injection 3.5L".
Salespeople are there to sell cars. If you want information on anything technical, it seems you have to find out on the interwebs.
To that I'll add, service people are often some of the worst sources of information about your car. I love to bait clueless service agents when they tell me something needs to be done to my car. When I challenge them they often hemm and haww, and when I ask them to show me in official Honda/Acura documentation such a service is required, they typically bail and refuse to answer.
Okay Guys, as the original Poster of the thread here are the immediate results of changing the oil in my car from 5W20 to 5W30 FULL SYNTHETIC.
This is the first 300 miles.
• Smoother Shifts. Both in Sound and Feeling
• A more Quiet Engine overall. It honestly sounds more refined.
• It feels more refined. The revs now seem to come on like velvet
• Not a single Knock or ping.
• Piston Slap: gone.
• The throttle seems more responsive to pedal. It seems to jump into action instantly with ease, as opposed to previously while it would respond you could feel the every effort. now its seems almost effortless merging on freeway.
• I did notice about 1-3 MPG Loss in City Driving
• Start ups Sound Different. Shorter. more instant.
• The Low end torque is most present than its ever been.
I go back just at 1k miles to do ANOTHER oil consumption text to be sure the switch has helped.
As I understand it, thinner oils gets too thin with LONG drives, lots of idles and consistently high engine temps in Warm climates. i drive A LOT. I idle A LOT. Im also a "spirited" driver.
And With this, its just not enough padding to protect the engines moving parts but provide sufficient lubrication for the engine to respond at peak performance. So Changing to 5w30
so far has eliminated my issues 300 miles in.
Last edited by mrphilipanderson; 05-17-2018 at 11:57 AM.
I go back just at 1k miles to do ANOTHER oil consumption test to be sure the switch has helped.
As I understand it, thinner oils gets too thin with LONG drives, lots of idles and consistently high engine temps in Warm climates. i drive A LOT. I idle A LOT. Im also a "spirited" driver.
And With this, its just not enough padding to protect the engines moving parts but provide sufficient lubrication for the engine to respond at peak performance. So Changing to 5w30
so far has eliminated my issues 300 miles in.
I'm glad to hear it seemed to help. I've been a proponent of slightly thicker oil in the past but I may be changing my mind.
There's a YouTube guy, Scotty Kilmer, who I listen to on occasion. He's kind of a goofy guy and I'm not sure I agree with everything he says, but he's spot on for at least 90% of things as far as I can tell. There was a discussion about oil viscosity for different applications and engines and the takeaway was that you should simply use the oil prescribed by the manufacturer. There's the argument that the manufacturer is prescribing thinner oil than it should, for reasons of economy, but that it might reduce the lifespan of the engine due to lesser protection. He doesn't buy this. According to his logic (which I can't argue with), reliability is such a huge factor in todays vehicles that there's no way a manufacturer is going to prescribe an inappropriate oil. On the contrary, they'll likely test the engine with a variety of oils then pick the one that shows the least amount of wear when the test engine is torn down. Also, economy isn't a great argument. I've made it before but in reality, the mileage difference between a given oil and one grade up is so miniscule that it's very unlikely to make any real difference. I certainly haven't seen any difference when using 5W-30 vs 0W-20.
I think a good example of this is the different oil prescribed in the 3.7 SH-AWD TL vs the 3.5 FWD. Acura indicates a 5W-20 for the 3.7L and a 0W-20 for the 3.5L. There could be a variety of reasons for this but what it shows is that they're prescribing a slightly thicker oil for the 3.7 (when cold anyways) likely because after extensive testing, they found it to be better than the 0W-20 used in the 3.5L in terms of wear or engine operation.
The guy that was initially asking the question about oil viscosity drove a Honda Civic Si. Scotty strongly recommended using the thinner prescribed oil rather than a thicker oil since the VTEC solenoids are specifically designed for the thinner oil, and contain various valves and passages that, if used with a thicker oil, will not work as efficiently, and potentially even become damaged over time. Another note he made is that while thinner oil may seem inferior, it actually uses a better base oil than thicker oils. Horseshoez made this point earlier. I had no idea this was the case.
Based on all that information, I switched from 5W-30 to the Mobil 1 Annual Protection 0W-20 on my last change. Walmart had it discounted to $34 so I figured I'd give it a try. I don't hit VTEC very often and even so, I doubt there'd be a night and day difference when switching oil viscosity. However, I've been doing 3rd and 4th gear pulls to about 130MPH for my Etuner once a week or so, and I swear I noticed a decent increase in response when VTEC kicked in around 4700 RPM. Again, not night and day. Just a bit more "pronounced". At first I thought it was the last tune iteration, which it might have been - though doubtful since performance increases diminish as the tune progresses since smaller and smaller changes are made as opposed to the first few iterations which are large changes that take into account all of your modifications. Then I realized a few days later when I was thinking about it, that it was after I went to the thinner oil. I'd say it would be a placebo effect but since I didn't think about it at the time, it could only be my perception at the most. I wouldn't go changing oil because it helped VTEC. And I can't definitively say it even did. That's pretty ricey and about as scientific as putting on a cold air intake and saying "it's pulling way harder now!!". But at the very least it's a double positive. Potentially a better oil with the added effect of better VTEC response.
To continue my ramble - Scotty agreed that there is value in going with higher viscosity in the case of older engines. An old Ford Windsor V8 is going to be a lot less "picky" about oil since older engines have considerably larger tolerances and aren't nearly as sophisticated as todays engine. Also, if your engine is burning oil, going one viscosity grade higher can help reduce oil consumption. It's still not necessarily "good" for the engine but gunking up your combustion chamber and exhaust valves by burning oil is a whole lot worse than running a thicker oil. He also said to never run that STP or any other oil conditioner in modern cars, again, unless they're burning oil like a chainsaw. The only additive he suggests, even in the case of a car burning oil, is that Lucas oil conditioner. He also mentioned that if your add thicker oil and your engine because quieter, you likely have a problem that you should either take care of, or live with if it's too expensive to fix. But that an engine with no problems shouldn't make any more noise with a thinner oil than a thicker oil. Again, going back to the manufacturer. They're not going to want an engine to make all sorts of noise with the thinner oil they prescribe. However, over time it's understandable that an engine may start to make noise as wear occurs and tolerances increase. Another reason to go to thicker oil if you want. Naturally, tearing down an engine and rebuilding it isn't very efficient when you can throw in thicker oil.
I'll add one thing. Dealers don't know everything, actually they usually know jack shit. So if you took the car to three different dealers, and they all said "yeah sure go ahead and use Lucas oil additives", then they are doing two things. 1. being nice to a new customer to gain their business, and 2. purposely telling you to use Lucas oil knowing it will cause more harm than anything - in an attempt for you to pay them for services afterwards (highly unlikely). I believe you have a 4G TL, and if your experiencing pinging, your engine is fucked man. My brother owns a 2012 TL and that thing is rock solid, he also switched to using 87 octane and has had no issues (he's a cheap ass)
good luck to you in your quest to cure the pinging, cuz that shits a dark road downhill man
That's interesting to know, I was going to try a lower octane in my 12TL to see if it knocked or not, at least in the cooler weather. But will probably run the 93 in hotter weather. I have only had mine for 5 months but it seems to be a very solid motor.
HTHS is the measure of how the oil will shear over time and it's resistance to shearing. Using an oil with a higher HTHS may help if you are worried about oil getting thin. German brands highly recommend higher HTHS oils.
Did you guys hear years back about some guy who was a well known J series engine builder named Paul who did engine tear downs of j30’s that ran 20wt oil and supposedly they were worn out prematurely? I have the link to the forums but it seems down. There’s this one that kinda talks about it -
Would a 30wt be good enough for stop and go and short trips where oil doesn’t get fully warmed up? Obviously a 20wt would be better but would a 30wt be significantly worse in any way?
Did you guys hear years back about some guy who was a well known J series engine builder named Paul who did engine tear downs of j30’s that ran 20wt oil and supposedly they were worn out prematurely? I have the link to the forums but it seems down. There’s this one that kinda talks about it -
Would a 30wt be good enough for stop and go and short trips where oil doesn’t get fully warmed up? Obviously a 20wt would be better but would a 30wt be significantly worse in any way?
Meh, not buying "supposedly", I ran 0W-20 in my 2001 J30 equipped Accord for well over 200,000 miles and the engine barely used any oil when the rest of the car rusted away around it. My TL has had a steady diet of 5W-20 (previous owner) and 0W-20 since 114,000 miles, and now at 170,000 miles, it only uses about a half quart during oil changes, and I only change oil every 10,000 miles. Furthermore, some of the oil loss in my engine is what is leaking out from the front cam seals.
Meh, not buying "supposedly", I ran 0W-20 in my 2001 J30 equipped Accord for well over 200,000 miles and the engine barely used any oil when the rest of the car rusted away around it. My TL has had a steady diet of 5W-20 (previous owner) and 0W-20 since 114,000 miles, and now at 170,000 miles, it only uses about a half quart during oil changes, and I only change oil every 10,000 miles. Furthermore, some of the oil loss in my engine is what is leaking out from the front cam seals.
Well pictures were posted of a engine he tore apart showing premature wear. The engine allegedly was fed 5w20 synthetic and only had about 80k miles if I recall correctly. Also the claim wasn’t just the lighter grade of oil wearing things out but that also synthetic oil was compounding the problem because it runs thinner supposedly. I know sounds crazy but all in all a heavier grade of oil and dino juice was being suggested as the better option. Another variable they brought up was oil pressure and how with a 20wt oil at idle oil pressure was only at 7psi. So idk. Keep in mind also this was a old thread so maybe back then 20wt oils were not as stout as 20wt oils of today?
Do you also not buy into the narrative of 20wt was adopted by manufacturers to meet CAFE standards and not necessarily with least amount of engine wear in mind? It does seem odd that for all of America a 20wt is recommended but other countries where CAFE is not a factor heavier grade oils are used in the same engine.
Also if one has some leaks would they benefit from a 30wt or 40wt over a 20wt? Doesn’t conventional leak less?
Do you also not buy into the narrative of 20wt was adopted by manufacturers to meet CAFE standards and not necessarily with least amount of engine wear in mind? It does seem odd that for all of America a 20wt is recommended but other countries where CAFE is not a factor heavier grade oils are used in the same engine.
While I may buy into the narrative the xW-20 oils were developed for fuel economy, I have also done extensive research and have found exactly zero evidence said oils contribute to premature engine wear.
Originally Posted by E39
Also if one has some leaks would they benefit from a 30wt or 40wt over a 20wt? Doesn’t conventional leak less?
This one I do not buy at all; when oil is up to temperature, xW-20, xW-30, or xW-40, it matters not, if the engine is a leaker, it will leak. The difference between the hot 0W-20 I run in my Acura and the hot 0W-40 I run in my 530i is decidedly minimal. Yes, you can detect the difference in viscosity in a lab under controlled conditions, but the fact is, even the hot oil coming out of my son's M3 which runs (Castrol 10W-60) is virtually indistinguishable from 0W-20.
Got to love oil threats. Just throwing some info here:
Every engine builder will recommend thinker oil especially if car is spirited driven. Thicker oils will offer more protection in severe conditions(towing,high rpms,overheating, short trips)
I have spend couple hundred $ of my own money testing oils with Blackstone and after results (thicker oils less metals in samples) will never put anything lighter than 5w-30 in my engine. 5w-20, 0w-16 etc.is for fuel economy and CAFE standards but not good for engine wear.
Here is a sample of 0w-40 Castroil oil +MOA in J37 engine:
04-23-2018, 01:35 PM
You can thank @cu2wagon for that artistic masterpiece.
And motor oil already has plenty of anti-foam additives. Some have claimed it sticks to everything and gums up the engine. Others say just to use it to quiet down the engine if you're looking to sell the car and want to hide the defects 
