p6889k

I'm traditionally a manual transmission person, but with less and less cars offering MT, I may have to eventually give up and start using AT. MT also sometimes seems out of place on large size family cars, such as the TL.

With that said, those of you that have and use the TL-SH paddle shifters, how satisfied are you with their performance and the transmission performance? Does the transmission respond quickly? Can you hold the car in gear up to a readline? Do you feel that shifting the TL yourself is just a gimmick or are you truly able to have a sporty experience?

My wife had Audi A6 AT and now Q7 AT and the manual shifting mode wasn't very satisfying - it was too slow.

How does the TL transmission compare to lets say BMW 335i AT, IS350, Audi's DSG or even the regular Audi AT in the latest A4?

Do you think that the upcoming TL-S will have an upgraded Automatic transmission available (besides the manual)? Could it have more agressive transmission setup?

I haven't driven the TL yet as I'm still trying to get over the looks - it's growing on me. I do like the features, reviews and reliability. I used to have Honda Prelude Si MT and that was very reliable and blast to drive.

Please don't turn this thread into MT vs. AT.

Thank you.

KeithL

If the 4G is like the 3G the shifting is good, but it is no substitute for a real manual. I summarize the paddle shifters like this, the car in semi-manual mode will basically let you deviate by 1 gear where the car would like to be if in Auto mode. I tiwll allow you to rev the car higher, but in the end it will prevent you from doing anything that can harm the tranny. I have not used them extensivly, but in my limtied use that is the way I approach them.

crxb

I get more use out of the paddles than I ever did from the sport mode w/ my 3G 5AT. just the fact than you can use the paddles w/o 1st having to put the tran in sport mode.

KeithL

I thought that was the cae when I first test drove the AWD, but when I tried it last week on a test drive it woudl not shift with paddles in Drive. I must have done something wrong then.

PGSberg

For me the best use of the paddles is in my daily commute to and from work. Traffic flows anywhere from 40 to 80 mph. With the modern transmissions, cars just don't slow down quick enough when lifting off of the throttle. I use the paddles vice constantly using the brakes during the dreaded accordion effect of high-volume traffic. What I don't like is when I shift from "D" to "S" at speed and the transmission kicks down to 3rd gear. I think it should stay in the gear I am in until I choose to shift.
I remember the paddles on the IS250 AWD I had as being taller and easier to operate from the 10-2 position. I have to adjust down to 9:30 and 2:30 to use them without thinking in the TL.
The up shifts on the Lexus were slightly smoother but the downshifts on the Acura are ten times smoother - not abrupt like on the IS.
While I think the paddles are better for daily driving, I do miss the six speed in my S2000 and Cooper "S".

MichiganRich

I have to second crxb's response. I liked having (and did use) the "sportshift" in the 3G, but being able to quickly tap down a gear with the paddles is nicer.

I find them most handy when coming away from a low-ish speed (non-stopping) corner. I can grab the next lower gear very quickly and be in the fun part of the tach instantly.

The trans in my '04 never had any of the real issues, but it liked to lope along in the lower RPM range and as a result, felt sluggish at times. The shift points in the SH-AWD are better.

Anyone else notice how quickly the 4G's snap into gear after shifting out of park (or from R to D) compared to the 3G's? Much better, in my opinion...

hydr0

Yup, because I tried it myself after reading it on here and it works like a charm. I'm waaaaaaay too lazy for manual (and plus, manual in NYC sucks as you barely get out of second gear lol), but doing it this way I love it. If I feel like getting sporty, or just taking off on someone, I just use that and it downshifts all by itself! Great addition by Acura IMO.

Wavehogger

I have to say, I've driven and owned many of your comparison AT's above and Acura did a great job here. It rev matches perfectly. You can hold it until it's bouncing off the rev limiter if you want. In S mode it responds instantly, way faster than the 3G does. It will allow you to downshift into lower gears at almost 6k rpm ensuring you can always make the most out of the powerband. It may be only 5 gears but at least it gives you great control and response. It should have been a 6 or 7 speed so perhaps that will arrive in a year or two but other than that they really can't tweak this tranny much more. Beware, if you go drive one, you're going to fall for it.

NYSH-AWD

Just got back from a night drive to test paddle shifters for the first time in SHAWD, all I have to say is, I'm gonna have so much fun!!!!

p6889k

Thank you everyone for your responses. It seems that most of you really like the paddle shifters and transmission response. I'm going to have to test drive it myself soon.

vinnier6

iTrader: (1)

dont get me wrong, i love the paddle shiffters, but wish they would do more to make it a true clutchless shift and not just an auto with a bump shifter....i find myself hardley ever using the paddles anymore as the car just does a better job shifting then i do, every once in awhile i will use it to hold a gear in a corner or slow down without braking....

the set up on the lexus IS-F is what needs to be on the sh model...its a true double clutch that allows you to select whatever gear you want an anytime...the tl will not let you shortshift the car, ie if your trying to upshift while your on the throttle it will not shift until its at the computer controlled shift point....

PetesTL

I agree!......at the very least, they should've added a true "sport" mode (like in BMW's) where the shift program is tuned for more aggressive driving. To me, it seems Acura threw the paddle shifters in there more like an after-thought. If Subaru can make a dual-clutch for their EVO MR, I don't see why Acura can't do the same for the TL. I had a chance to test drive a M3 with dual-clutch this past fall, and it was very, very sweet! Dual clutch is the trans of the future.

Colin

They are probably getting ready for the next generation transmission. Let's assume it takes 3-4 years to develop an all new transmission in-house. This development was probably delayed because they had to go back to the drawing board for the 5AT when the problems started surfacing in 2001-2003.

Then lets assume that there are patents on the current dual-clutch transmission technology. Honda engineers would have to design around these which probably adds to the development time. Look at VTEC for example. Honda started with it around 1989 on the Japan market SiR, it wasn't till much later (1998?) that Toyota had a system to vary timing and lift (and duration) on intake and exhaust.

I remember in the 80's Mitsubishi developed a dual balance shaft system to minimize vibrations in their huge 2.6 liter Starion engines. Porsche realized it would take too much time and money to make a similar system that didn't infringe on the Mits design. They swallowed their pride and paid for the Mits system for the 944 engine.

Legend2TL

, Yep Mitsubishi had the patent for 2 bearing balance shafts, Porsche did not want to use a 3 bearing design which I believe was a older expired patent. Porsche choose to pay Mitshubishi.

I also wonder about the 3G 6MT TL Torsen-like differential. Torsen (a Detroit differential manufacturer of non-friction based differentials that use gears for controlling the torque) has alot of patents on differentials using helical gears to manage the torque and no friction plates. But either the patents expired or Honda found away around it since the 3G uses a pinion/worm gear since I do not believe the Honda differential is not a Torsen and may use techniques with gears that are not covered with Torsen's differential.

Colin

If A = B and B = C, then A = C.

Does this mean that Honda has more corporate pride the Porsche?

Legend2TL

In some ways yes, apparently the old man didn't like to pay patent and licensing royalties. I did notice on Torsen's website that the S2000 uses a Torsen OEM differential (http://www.torsen.com/files/Torsen%2...on%20Chart.pdf).

One area were Honda and most of the Japanese manufacturers (Toyota, Nissan,...) paid GM was for loss-less foam casting patents. GM invented the technique which drastically cut down the amount of machining post-casting and allowed more complex castings. The Japanese ignored the GM Japanese patents and the case went through the Japanese court system. One of the rare times they ruled in favor of a foreign company for a patent dispute.

bmode

The shifting is really smooth for my uses. I love the fact that you can downshift to 1st gear too, my old TL wouldn't do that until I reach 10MPH or something. The thing that really sucks is that you have to have both hands on the wheel to use them up and down. I miss the "tip tronic" shifter on the gear console. I really only drive with my left hand, so I usually rest the right on the shifter, it's just natural for my usage. It's a great option to have, but here in LA I'm so glad not to be using a clutch. I will NEVER buy a clutch while I live in LA. F' in Forget about it!(Donnie Brasco quote)

Oh, Flawless Finish just detailed the car, and it's so frickin' clean and sick! I just try not to look at the rims...LOL

TSXdawg

Colin, do you know something that we don't about a new 6AT or DSG? I am just waiting for them to come out with something better than their 5AT which I just can't Acura is still using. Even Hyundai has a 6AT now.

Does anyone have any info about when Honda might come out with a new transmission to replace the aging 5AT? Anyone?

Colin

Nobody knows anything at this point and I don't have any inside info. I do (I hope) have some perspective on the situation that some 'chicken littles' seem unwilling to consider.

The way I see it, the 5AT really came out (in finished form) in 2003. It's not that old. Transmissions (and engines) have a very long service life and typically go through several generations of cars because they are expensive to develop and certify (EPA).

In the case of Hyundai, their 6AT is an in house design, but they did use a ZF unit previously. Hmmm, does anyone think they reverse engineered it? Of course they did.

Honestly, 5 vs 6 speeds is a non issue to 90% of the customers on the sales floor. Most don't even know that it has 'gears' and were perplexed with the D3 in the previous sport shift tranny. However, all of them ask me if the car has Bluetooth standard and some even ask if there is a subscription necessary.

TSXdawg

Ya I suppose most people don't care about whether their cars have 5 or 6 speeds. People on these forums usually have more of a technical/performance focus than the average person that walks into the showroom. Too bad though, I'm just waiting for a 6AT before pulling the trigger on a new TL SH-AWD.

dramsey

Actually, the IS-F transmission is pretty much the same 8-speed auto used on the LS460. It's tuned well and shifts fast (like the 7 speed autos on some Mercedes AMGs), but it's definitely not a twin clutch box like the Porsche PDK, Mitsubishi MR, or Volksie's transmission...

GearDriven

I test drove the SH-AWD with the paddle shifters...I found sport to generally be more rewarding than the paddles...as the paddles had too much delay compared to the DSG style that I had driven before. I wish the paddles were mounted to the column instead of the wheel so they would always be in the same place...