PsychDoc

Read 'em and weep:

TL - 1986

G Sedan - 2609
G coupe - 900

A4 - 2763
A5 - 1051

ES - 4346

C-class - 4028

3 - 6844 (how the hell do they keep pulling these numbers...amazing!!!)

CG2PROJECT

Well.. the 3 series are pretty damn sexy looking, I can't deny that fact and a sweet engine to boot!

Pete2010

Not really amazing on the 3 Series, that is going to be their entire 3 - Line, 328i/xi, 335i/xi, wagon, diesel, M.

It's not too far behind the G sedan and the A4 - both the closest comparables. I'm totally starting to see more in my neck of the woods. I had only seen one or two for a long time, then all of a sudden I've seen maybe 10 or so in the past week, all diff colors, some AWD some FWD.

But if I wanted a car that everyone else had, I'd get a 3-series...too small for my tastes.

DrewSRX

January 2010 Entry-Level Sales

1. 3 - 5,418
2. C - 4,028
3. A4/5 - 3,814
4. G - 3,763
5. ES - 2,923
6. CTS - 2,565
7. IS - 2,203
8. TL - 1,986
9. MKZ - 1,340
10. 9-3 - 429
11. S60 - 6

PetesTL

Anyway you look at it....it all comes down to the polarizing design and higher price tag. Yeah, to us owners it's a non-issue, but in order for Acura's bread-N'-butter car to succeed in the long-term, they have to go back to the drawing board and put out a design with a much broader appeal and less "shock and awe." (or "shock and disgust" in this case)l

JAB00

Agreed. The TL should be selling in the low to mid 3K monthly. The design is what is turning off a lot of buyers. If I were in the market for a new car, I don't know if I would choose the TL despite knowing what a great value it is. At certain angles the car looks good but in others it looks, well bad. Unfortunately, I would care what others (friends/family) think of my car. Yes I know it's shallow but it's true. I also bet that a majority of people feel that way.

If the shield is toned down during the MMC, that would boost sales by several 100 at least. Make it more like the TSX.

jspagna1

If I were to choose another car it would be the G37X.
The 3 Series to me is just a fad. It's for the I only wear Polo shirts crowd. Nobody seems to hold onto their BMW's for any long period of time! I wonder why?
And I agree it's too small inside.

The A4 is also too small and I don't care what anyone says, Audi's are just very expensive to own because Audi parts are expensive. Audi parts are more expensive than BMW & Mercedes parts.

Lets just think of it as belonging to an exclusive club!

docboy

I admit, I was a little curious/skeptical about 4G TL sales numbers a year ago prior to my purchase of the 4G TL 6MT. Now that I have one and it's a blast to drive, the numbers personally neither don't bother me me nor does it interest me (as much).

More sales does NOT necessarily equate a "better" vehicle. Conversely, lower sales does NOT equate a "worse" vehicle.

I had a 09 IS 250 AWD that I hated so much, I traded it in for the 4G TL 6MT at 4k miles. The TL is superior to the IS in every way IMHO.

The 4G TL is distinctively different from the 3G obviously, and has a different target buyer in mind (ie. older age, higher income). Higher price, larger dimensions, SH-AWD, etc...

I personally like I do not see a 4G TL at every corner.

ESHBG

I think what shoots Acura in the foot in the long run is that there is always a catch in the model line up: for example, I can get a 6MT, but I can't get one in the color I want. I can get all of the features I want but ONLY if I get Navi also, which I may not want...

Yes, Acura's formula makes shopping much simpler but in the long run, I think just a wee bit more choice and flexibility with some of the more major options would not be a bad thing at all, ESPECIALLY in this category.

Ac Man

I don't know about you guys, but for me, not seeing a 4G TL everytime I turn around is not a bad thing. So what if the sales are not at the top of the class, it doesn't mean it's a bad car. I like to stand out in the crowd, and that's exactly what the TL does. I hated it when I had my '03 Accord and everyone and their momma had one too. That was the main reason why I traded it in and bought my '05 TL, because I knew not many had TLs at the time. But then I went away for a year, and when I returned in '06 3G TLs were EVERYWHERE. Don't get me wrong, I want Acura to do well, but a part of me doesn't mind seeing the numbers where they are. I don't like being a part of the "Me too" crowd, I like being a member of the small 4G crowd.

KES

The 3 Series sells because most poeple lease them. BMW makes it easy for them with good lease rates and full maintenace for 4yrs / 50K. Reliability is not an issue since everything is covered under warranty and you are into a new car before you even hit 50K. BMW has a loyal following that just sign up for another 3 year lease. It works and it sells cars as evidenced by the sales numbers.

jangkai

I think it's pretty clear now that the sales figure won't go up unless some change is made. Acura has given dealer incentives and low APR, but so have others.

I really like my car and could care less about the sales figures, but I hope that the low sales won't lead to uh.. future cutbacks? in Acura as a whole. More sales would mean more profit and more money to play around with for Honda/Acura.
Of course Honda is a big company and a few thousand TL sales may have no adverse effect at all.

KeithL

If Acura were smart and they are going to make the styling a little less polarizing they should do it fast, introduce the 2011 early say June or July and get these sales up. The G Sedan never used to outsell the 3G. AS it has been said I feel the huge price increase and styling are killing them. That being said I can live with the price seeing how rock solid and good the car is, they need to get styling that attracts people in the door.

kingofire

I hope Acura never listens to you and your logic I believe in KISS-Keep It Simple Stupid

George Knighton

I agree completely.

But...the TL is just...edgy. It's not for everybody. Even if you changed the way it looks, the way it drives is edgy.

I love my car, too. But unfortunately that doesn't put money in Acura's bank.

YetiTL

Win thread! I think you're dead on!

Do you work in the automobile industry??

Joe5.0

How the hell is it possible that Volvo sold 6 S60's the entire month???? That seems absurd.

And watch out TL, MKZ is comin for you.


And btw, January sales for the TL are ugly.........because so is the car. Its pretty simple to me.

George Knighton

The same way Acura only sold 110 RL the entire month.

The people are a fickle and changeable thing.

jspagna1

You hit the nail on the head. We have a local BMW dealer here in CT and every Sunday they have an hour spot and all they show are BMW's that are only a few years old with low miledge. And I mean a good size inventory.

wutaguy

Anybody has TSX sales number?

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

My opinion

Everybody and their mother has a 3 Series. Of those 6k+ sold.... i bet 2,000 were on Long Island, 2,000 in Major LA area, and the other 2,000 in Miami/So. Florida

Also, like somebody else mentioned...

The 3 Series Line consists of

328i Coupe
328i Sedan
328i Wagon
328xi Coupe
328xi Sedan
328xi Wagon
335i Coupe
335i Sedan
335xi Coupe
335xi Sedan
335ci Convertible
335d Sedan
M3 Sedan
M3 Coupe
M3 Convertible

Thats alot of 3's....Also, BMWs are frequently used as "fleet" (corporate lease) vehicles.

The TL, only consists of 3.5L FWD & 3.7L AWD

I personally dont mind NOT seeing a million 4Gs on the road. makes my car more special....



and Volvo....6 S60's??? Really??? thats terrible

GrigioTL

You are right! 56% of BMW's were leased in 2008. BMW leases are very appealing due to heavily subsidized financing programs and they allow flexibility for lease transfers. On the other hand, Honda/Acura leases do not allow for easy lease transfers and are considered one of the most restrictive in the industry.

http://www.edmunds.com/advice/leasin...1/article.html

jspagna1

You want to talk about an ugly car. The MKZ is just that. Talk about a HUGE grill and the car has absolutely no style. It's boring and bland imo and the only people that drive them are old.

And by the way, your 1995 Mustang Cobra sounds pretty sick and looks like it runs pretty good too!

George Knighton

Here is a JPG of the January sales chart. Both TSX and TL were down substantially from the same month last year, making the MDX the sales leader.

TechnoCat

I've got to agree that the numbers are skewed by model aggregation. I'm not really a fan of my TL SH-AWD 6MT, but you can't compare TL to A4 on sales; the A4 includes a station wagon model (Avant) which sells well, and that number probably also includes the S4 which is considered a trim-line by Audi. The BMW numbers are a whole line of cars too.

And then there is the question of value. That's been a real debate here, but I don't think the style is the biggest polarizer for the TL; I think it's that it costs about $5K more than people expect to pay for an upscale Honda compared to nearly-equivalent German brands. Audi is not considered an upscale VW; most people who think of them at all know that the tech trickles into the Passat rather than up into the Audi, and regardless, Audi is considered a luxury brand. So is Lexus. Acura never fully got that image, so should cost a bit less. (Whether it does depends on how you measure features. Lots of posters here discount things like folding seats, flat trunk, headlight washers, quietness, nice sunroof controls, etc.)

DrewSRX

The S60 has been out of production since March 31, 2009.

Volvo can't sell cars they don't have.

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/04/10/v...tion-in-ghent/

frugalguy

While it is true that it is not a "fair" comparison because the new TL does not have coupe/wagon/diesel/ variations, but that's been always the case.

The 3G TL outsold many of these competitors despite also not having any of these variations in its lineup either.

For example, as mentioned earlier by KeithL, (did you really own all those TLs !!!), the 3G TL always outsold the G despite having no coupe variation either.

It is very troubling when the new TL actually sold 7% fewer last month than in 1/09 when the US was in the midst of the financial meltdown. Remember this is for a relatively new car with SHAWD coming online only recently and while many of its competitors have positive year-to-year comparisons.

To go from the 3G's average monthly sales of more than 6000 cars in its first 3 years to less than 2000 last month for the 4G is yikes indeed!

It may be good for the 4G owners to have exclusivity as a result but it is certainly not good for Acura and it's dealers.

Joe5.0

I see mostly middle aged people in MKZ's, and IMHO it looks better than the TL. Now, interior the nod goes to the TL, but the MKZ now has Ecoboost, so 'd have to give the edge to the Linc.

And thanks for the compliment on my Cobra, its now 99% done with its swap back to N/A and will be ready to rip as soon as spring breaks.

Joe5.0

Gotcha, that makes more sense lol

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

I saw an MKZ... White, Chrome OEM wheels, factory lip/aero kit. thing was sweet as hell!!

I would definitely love to own one.... BBBUUUTTTT.... you can never compare Acura reliability, durability and resale value to a fancy ford Taurus.

Actually, the MKS is the Taurus..., which is comparable to the TL SH-AWD

So the MKZ, technically should be racked against the TSX

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

Acura is slowly trying to bring the TL up a class....

It used to be, that the...


TL = 3 Series = Audi A4 = Benz C = Lexus ES = Infiniti G35/37
RL = 5 Series = Audi A6 = Benz E = Lexus GS = Infiniti M35/45
?? = 7 Series = Audi A8 = Benz S = Lexus LS = Infiniti Q45

Acura is trying to go for this

TSX = 3 Series = Audi A4 = Benz C = Lexus ES = Infiniti G35/37
TL = 5 Series = Audi A6 = Benz E = Lexus GS = Infiniti M35/45
RL = 7 Series = Audi A8 = Benz S = Lexus LS = Infiniti Q45


They have to make baby steps, so not to disturb the current customer loyalty/preferences.

Thats why a fully loaded TL is now $45k .... when the 06 TL was $36k
Thats why Acura put a V6 option in the TSX
Thats how Acura got away with putting a $60k Price Tag on the ZDX.. and STILL charging MSRP or over for this new taboo car/truck hybrid


They are trying to up their reputation and become known as a more elite vehicle, then simply a fancy Honda.



Also, you can almost ensure that towards the end of the 2G TSX or the beginning of the 3G TSX, there will be SH-AWD

In fact, the 2G USDM TSX / JDM Accord Euro R already has the necessary holes in the chassis for a rear differential to be added in the future.... Any Acura Tech can confirm this.... the AWD may only go on the JDM Euro R, but since they share the same platform, I am sure Acura will follow in its parent companies foot steps

ESHBG

Well that's what YOU may believe, but what about a majority of shoppers? I am not saying make it as confusing as a Nissan purchase (for example), but I don't think segmenting out a few of the bigger options would be a bad idea at all. Also, this way you will spread out the price point gap a little wider and in turn make the car more accessible.

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

^ problem with that, becomes production costs and availability...

I completely understand your perspective... but have you ever priced out a BMW online....

Say you wanted a

Blue 335i, Tan Interior. Cold Weather package. No Sport package. Convenience package, but no Xenon headlights. with Navigation, but no Sunroof....

It becomes hard for the shopper to locate their car, and generally need to order it directly from Germany, or settle with whats readily available or at a local dealer

Also, it drives up production costs. Then Acura will most likely reflect some of that, in the MSRP of the car. Maybe this is one of the key features that always kept acura's fairly priced

But again, the company is changing....

I remember with the 3G, the only options were navigation or not and summer tires Now acura is trying to test out the waters with "Advanced Package", "Technology Package" and CMBS and PAX for the RL

Hell, Acura might one day add "Convience Package" as an option, so you'll have to pay more for the Homelink, HandsFree link and other amenities.

KeithL

Yes I did! On TL #6

I twice sold my 3G TL looking for a change, but never could find anything that made me as happy so wound up re-buying a new TL.

KeithL

No matter what they wanted to do they failed at doing good market research. Clearly their change missed the mark, or they thought the TSX woudl fill the old TL slot. Problem is the TSX was not going to fill the TL void without a V6 and they introduced that late and then practially at the same price as a TL Tech! One problem they have is all their modles seem to be on the same life cycle dates so they get this clutter of cars being intorduced back to back and in this case with the move upscale it confused people, add to that the styling and you have the perfect storm against Acura.
The Power Plenum is missing the mark, they wanted a signature look, but it sticks out rather than accentuate the car it screams look at my nose! And while there are more family resemblences witht he rest of Acura the TL share little if any styling lines with any other Acura. The back of the TSX, RL RDX, MDX and ZDX share similar styled tail lights and lines. The MDX is picking up some of the ZDX frint fascia styling as does the RDX. But the TL does not have a look of shared heritage.

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

^ Good point.... but.... try one other look at it... (and its just my opinion)

Did they "miss" their mark?? OOORRRR are they so far ahead of their mark, that we dont know yet???


Honda, sold 23,000 Accords last month. The #1 Selling "car" in American in January 2010

The Ford F150 was #1 selling vehicle, and the Silverado Pick up was #2

Honda (Acura) knows what they're doing... We may not all agree, but i see the intelligence behind it at all... again, in my opinion

The hideous grille, has become more and more tolerable to the general public... not everybody is a fan, but people are warming up to it.

Acura, has re-branded it self has a Luxury Car.... Not a fancy Honda.... They put a version of a bold grille on ALL their vehicles... so to distinguish their car, from anybody elses


BMW's have their Grille, that has made a lasting impression from the 1970's BMW 2002... all the way to the 2010 BMW full line up.. with alterations, but all a variation of the original

Acura began this with their Pentagon idea on their past few models... now, instead of having the grille we are familiar with on the 2G CL/TL 3G TL... they "filled" in the empty pentagon shape, to form a solid "Beak" that looks like NO OTHER CAR on the road


Maybe I am biased... because i absolutely love these cars, as i think they are the best cars for the money with plenty of comfort and technology.

VTEC Racer

Sounds about right, especially considering that Acura will be introducing the new car below the TSX. It will be positioned correctly to compete with the A3, 1-series, C30, and the Toyota/Lexus hatch thats coming out.

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

Also, dont forget... Accord sold better then Camry (Lexus ES350) & Altima/Maxima (G37)

Acura TL is essentially the Honda Accord

Now, Did Acura pick a TERRIBLE economic time, to make a drastic change to their "bread & butter" selling vehicle... ABSOLUTELY... but, they probably planned this change about 3-4 years ago, when the TL sold tremendous numbers, people had dispensable income... and their profit margin far exceeded their competitive companies.... Unfortunately, once they started the events leading up to the 4G and their new "distinctive design" , they couldn't put a "hold" on this drastic change, as they would lose a lot of their invested monies.

Maybe, using the TL as the guinea pig in this new design, was a good idea... since some people bought the TL based solely on previous experiences....

When i purchased my 4G, i DID NOT like the exterior styling one bit.... but, i also didnt like the 3G when i first saw it at the 2003 NY Auto Show.... I knew, with a few quirky mods (headlights, underbody, grille replacement) that my car would look sweet

In fact, all the friends, family members and "forum buddies" who trashed me for buying the 4G, went back on their statements after i had the car for a few weeks



I guess Acura figured, that their "advanced" and "technological" marketing aspect would help drive new sales, well their reliability and value would keep existing customers loyal and intrigued by the new 4th Gen.


damn. i should be selling these cars.

MIKEYDRED

Have to respectively disagree, the front of the TL looks just like the MDX and ZDX,especially with the cut outs in the bumper. The back I will agree is dfifferent but the ZDX is close and the taillights I think took some homage from the Accord.

ostrich

If they do, then you have the answer as to how BMW gets these numbers for the 3 series. Their lease programs are very aggressive, with very low monthly payments. Hey, if you monthly payment for a financed Corolla will be similar to the monthly lease payments of a 3 series, what would you rather have!? LOL