(BlaCk)

So I'm at a crossroads and would like some input. My current '05 TL and I aren't necessarily seeing eye to eye. I'm torn between getting back into a Subaru, the 2 previous cars I owned (WRX, Legacy 2.5 GT) were very good to me until the very end. I really want to get back into an AWD vehicle and have been reading some reviews about the quality of Acura's SH-AWD system. Obviously Subaru/Audi have a strangle hold on the AWD market, but Audi repair costs/long term ownership scare me and Subarus are a niche that has really eschewed luxury.

"Why not G37x?" I'm comfortable with the Acura platform for the most part and as such there wouldn't be much of a learning curve. Plus I really hate the Infiniti analog clock...

So what I want to know is what you love/hate about your SH-AWD TL and would you make the same purchase again?

Edward'TLS

Purchase again with the same 4G TL : NO.

Because it is near the end of the model cycle, and most direct competitors have already launched new models. Even the new Honda Accord has more hi-tech features than this 4G TL.

But purchase again with a 5G TL, the answer is a likely YES.

mynameisjacob

The moment you throttle into an off-ramp like Maverick evading a MIG... and see the SH-AWD indicator giving a full boost to your left rear tire via lateral torque vectoring... you never want to go back.

Why would you want a 50/50 full-time all wheel drive (like in Subaru)... especially when your weight distribution is not... it works against you when you don't need it imho. I think the SH-AWD is a superb system... very high tech and kicks in like a raging bull when you decide you want to grab it by the horns and spur it to the limits.

ucf_bronco

iTrader: (1)

I would do it again in a heartbeat. A year and a half after buying my car I still get excited to drive it and find reasons to. I not only love the way this car drives but also how it looks. The icing on the cake is that in the time I've owned the car I've only seen two others (in person) with mods.

TeamAcura

Since you're coming from a 3G to a 4G, that's an upgrade especially if you get the tech pack w/ the sh-awd. Prices on new 4Gs are very good; below invoice most times. The Accord has more standard features than the 4G but it's still a fwd car and the only thing I don't like about the sh-awd system is it's fwd biased. Otherwise, the sh-awd works flawlessly. You can get on the gas sooner on exits. It's like traction control. Test drive all of the cars you're interested in and then go from there. I think you will be pleasantly surprise.

NwTSXmt

Any Acura product..NO...Their service departments needs a major overhaul...liars/crooks...jmho

(BlaCk)

This is kind of missing the essence of what I'm asking, I'm basically saying if you could go back in time. I'm looking to capture your experience as an owner of your 4G and if you still think that of the vehicles you were choosing between, if you'd by the 4G again.

The Subaru comes down to more than just the AWD system, I'm giving the brand an unfair bias based on my experience with them. But the AWD did seem to be very predictable and reliable. In a really bad snow storm I pushed it to see, and this was on a Stage 3 setup, the car let loose, but quickly regained it's composure. It is refreshing to hear these reviews from owners on their cars though.

The styling is actually what gives me some trepidation. I see that paint and a lip kit has gone a long way for many users, including yourself, in overcoming Acura's quirks/miscues with the front/rear bumpers.

I've test driven the Subarus ad nauseum and their interiors have come a long way. They are in no way comparable to the Acura, but it's a lot better than my first foray into a WRX. I really need to make a concerted effort to take a drive in the 4G.

It's disappointing to here that the 4G has sacrificed some trunk space for the SH-AWD. One of the major sells of my 3G was the trunk space. Is the difference that noticeable?

Arcelyte

Welcome to any auto service dept. I'm a senior mod at Club Lexus. I'm friends with the family that owns the dealership where a service writer and his mechanic tried to double dip on a Lexus SSB recall on my car. All car dealers are F'ing snakey people. Sales, service, finance, even the porter kid will beat the crap out of your car and go through your stuff, the moment he gets a chance.




Agreed that this TL-SH being my first high tech AWD car... that is its only saving grace. I am already looking at getting another car. It could be that owning Lexus cars for the past few years have turned me into a princess. I find the TL-SH too rough, too noisy, underpowered, and cheesy feeling.

I know that those last few lines will drive the TL fans nuts with disagreement. I apologize and re-state that It is in my opinion on the car...and what cars I am coming from.

HeartTLs

iTrader: (5)

Thank God I'm not the only one, I think it looks so tacky. Yes I would and I did, I bought my 09' awd/tech in March 2010, and just bought a 12' awd/adv last month. I love this car. I think it does everything REALLY well and for the money you can't beat the package; I don't see it's competitors as competition. The AWD is a beast in good and foul weather, I can't compare it to Subi since I've never driven one though.

Six Shifter

not unless/until they come out with a coupe ... but I have discussed this before

JT4

Yes, I would buy the 4G again and actually might within the next year. I think they're great cars..

And I've been fortunate because my service department has been great. Been dealing with them since 2004 and can't really complain about anything..

I hope I didn't just jinx myself..

Blaze9

I would, there's nothing bad about this car. Only thing I would do different is upgrade to the SH-AWD. I love my FWD, but I drove an AWD as a loaner, and it's just.... pure bliss to drive.

TeamAcura

There's a little hump on the very back of the trunk. It's prolly 2-4 inches high maybe. That's it though. Not much of a difference IMO.

Edward'TLS

If I went back in time to 2011, of course I would buy still the 4G MMC TL, given the level of competitors back then. If I have regretted my purchase, I would not have kept the TL till today.

I don't get it, what are you thinking of ?

You're trying to buy today's car amongst today's car choices, using buying experience and car choices that were made 3-4 years ago ?

JM2010 SH-AWD

I'd buy it again in a minute - not even a question in my mind.

I was reminded why again just last night. I was humming along a little, curvy two-laner home from work, just letting the SH-AWD do its thing. I'm coming up to a hard left uphill followed by a slightly off-camber right (still uphill) at the top. As I charge up the hill preparing for the right hander (which is a blind turn), two large turkeys (I'm not making this up) are hangin' in the middle of the road. Before I can even think, the car is braking into the apex of the turn, no tire squealing or chirping, no chassis unsettling, just a nice controlled stop, short of the two nit-wit turkeys by a few feet, thankfully.

Driving this car fast (but not, of course, unreasonably so) on a nice twisty road reveals the magic that is SH-AWD. Before you decide, make sure you experience that in a test drive. And with SH-AWD, remember that when your brain screams "brakes," that's the time to nudge the go pedal. I think you'll be sold.

jspagna1

For me, yes I would buy another 4G SH-AWD. For my wife no. Made the right choice buying the Maxima for her and I like it as well but I do miss the confidence I had in the TL.
That being said, I do like the Subaru as well. I just wish they did a better job with the redesign. I just don't like the current body style. I actually loved the old one better. Wonder what the next gen Suby will look like?
I do know that my mechanic had a Subaru for a winter car once and he said he could never get that car to break loose in the snow. He loved it. Keep us posted on what you decide.

saturno_v

I would buy it in a heartbeat even now with supposedly better competitors...the TL stil has the most original styling, the road manners are impeccable and the V6 is one of the sweetest in the business.

Right now you can great excellent incentives on the TL because it is on its way out.

By the way the Legacy GT is a solid choice (and you save some coin) and optioned to the max is luxurious enough...but is not TL.

What I hate of the TL?? The non folding rear seats and the smallish trunk.....visibility is not the best on some situations.

My problem is that I may decide to change the car in 2 years or so and frankly i do not see a worthy replacement in that combo (large , torque vectoring AWD sedan with 300+ hp and a manual or at least a dual clutch transmission)

mynameisjacob

http://reviews.cnet.com/2300-31347_7-10016280.html

http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2013...ooks-the-part/

^If it looks like anything like the WRX concept unveiled at the NY Auto Show... I may be conflicted.

012TL-GLM

Yes, I would buy it again, maybe a different color though, the graphite luster is a bitch to keep clean, but damn fine when shining

What I love - handling, seat comfort, sound system, drink holders, steering wheel thickness, cabin refinement

What I dislike - quirky trunk design, MPG, glove compartment

What I hate - silver/chrome grill on a gray car (so I painted mine to match )

Lots of friends with Subs, decent vehicles for the price, but not at the level of comfort/refinement that Acura offers. The STI is damn fast though

amill

underpowered? I agree it could use more power. But compared to any lexus minus the IS-F the more performance oriented SH-AWD model in a proper manual is quicker to 60 than the IS and GS...so I'm not really understanding how it's "underpowered" compared to any of the lexus offerings in the smiliar price ranges. For God's sake the IS250 hits 0-60 in 7.9 seconds.

billyt1963

If I could go back a year and buy this car or another, I would buy this car. I have had it 15 months and have put 22000 miles on the car already. I enjoy driving it every chance I get, but if for some reason I have to drive our other car, it is a 2011 TSX Wagon. Not a bad back up and a very different handling characteristic.

ostrich

I LOVE my 2012 TL SH-AWD and would absolutely buy it again!

I love the handling, the technology features and the ELS sound system. SH-AWD has saved me in a few tight spots during winter.

What do I not like about it? A few rattles here and there sometimes. Also, the rear seats don't fold down!!! Now, those are pretty minor things, right!? :-)

HeartTLs

iTrader: (5)

I had to do a double take as well, what Lexus other than the IS-F is fast for under 100k? If comparing by price point none and if going my vehicle size ES/GS there still isn't a contender. Lexus AWD compared to SH-AWD is like pitting a house cat vs a lion.

Arcelyte

Sigh.... Okay. I'll say it again. It is in MY opinion that the car is underpowered. Reason I say this is my GS450h would eat it alive.
Read that again. My boring 2007 GS450h Hybrid... would kill the 2009 TL-SH I drive now. Off the line. 60-140mph. in a boat, with a goat. I could keep up with an ISf till about 100mph. The GS460 is only slightly slower than the 450h. Please... the TL-SH hits 60 in 6 sec high 5's per many. many car mag/blog tests. My 450h was cracking off 0-60 times in low 5's to 5 flat. 1/4 miles in just over 13 seconds.

Below is In KMH, but Im sure you can figure it out. 100km is about 60mph, 260km is about 160mph.

Ive driven enough IS350s to know that it too will beat a TL-SH. Not the ass handing that the GS450h will give it. But it will win every time. How do I know this... cause my buddy in his 06 IS350 with 120k mi on it. Waxed my ass the other day. I could not pass him.

A IS250 is the most entry level Lexus you can get besides the vanilla diet coke ES line. It would be in more comparison with a TSX. Not the TL-SH.

Again, this is my opinion. Sorry you don't agree. Im not looking to start a debate. If you're offended by my post or think I'm wrong. Sorry. But before you scoff at what I'm saying... Go drive a used GS450h. Then get back in the TL.

Arcelyte

Agreed. The AWD is amazing and totally takes the cake. But as far as noise. comfort. speed. My old GS450h was better.

Again. I owned a NSX 2000-2002, then nothing but Lexus's till now. This is my first Acura in years. I figured it would be the best option for Chicago winter. But, I do miss the Lexus after driving this thing for 7 weeks now.

(BlaCk)

I'm judging the experience that current 4G owners have based upon the term of their ownership. Reason being, I plan to purchase a CPO 4G if I were to give up on the idea of getting back into a Subaru. Using that logic, I would be comparing a CPO vehicle from possibly other brands within the same year range against the idea of a comparatively priced brand new Subaru.

That being said, I was quoted a price of $27,700 on a CPO 2010 39k miles SH-AWD w/Tech. Am I doing ok at this price point? Edmunds is showing 2010 CPOs going for $28.8k and the dealer started at $29.9k.

mynameisjacob

I was lucky enough go find an immaculate 2010 Tech SH-AWD with 21k miles for $26 grand... that's after the dealer dropped the price by $2000 after I bluffed them.

(BlaCk)

Well, you just won that pissing contest. I actually saw a non CPO 2010 SH-AWD w/Tech and 23k miles for $24k, but it wasn't from an Acura dealership. The price had me a little worried and I don't really want to drive 45 mins to see it and be disappointed.

TeamAcura

http://www.zeroto60times.com/Lexus-0-60-mph-Times.html

http://www.zeroto60times.com/Acura-0-60-mph-Times.html

IDK what you smokin but looks identical to me. The manual is actually 2 tenths faster. And you're comparing a v8 against a v6. Not really a fair comparison. And I'll put money on the sh-awd that it will have a faster track time than that gs too. Big HP numbers don't always mean you win. More of a bragging rights thing.

Arcelyte

Wow, I really had no clue the amount of "butt-hurt" my comment would cause here. Holy shit.

Check this out. Again... ITS MY OPINION!!! I must be smoking something. I mean its not like I owned and drove both cars to base my stated OPINION... its not like I know that the GS450h has a 3.5L V6 and not the V8 you think it does. Its not like I said the TL-SH has a amazing awd.

Before the angry mobs type away trying to prove me wrong. "Holy shit... someone is out of line on the internet!!!" click click click...
It is my opinion based on the fact that I owned both cars and I think the TL would be better if it had more power. Like the power my 450h had. I am truly regretting my statement now.


Hold up...my bad.



The TL-SH is amazing and I will never buy another type of car again. Anyone who doesnt own a TL-SH is stupid and should die of herpes.

Steven Bell

iTrader: (2)

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.


And it's OK to state that opinion here.


If you don't agree with that opinion, that's OK too.


But keep it civil-stay on topic too, or you get a vacation and this thread gets closed.

TeamAcura

LOL you need read your post again. You have an opinion, I get that part but you also stated numbers that were incorrect. Your butt dyno does not count. Opinions and facts are 2 different things. Sounds like you are the one that is on butt hurt. I'm only correcting your misleading numbers. And yes you're correct. It is a v6. I was thinking about the 460. So my bad.

HeartTLs

iTrader: (5)

I don't go around racing everyone I see on the road, so I have no experience in the matter, but that's surprising to hear that an IS350 is faster than AT/MT 6spd awd TL. Both cars are stock, did you guys start from a stop or roll, what speed did you get to, when you say you couldn't pass him was your car or his ahead?

As far as noise levels and ride stiffness I can only compare my current 4G to my previous 4G and aunt's 10 GS (I don't know the trim level). My orevious 4G was obnoxiously loud and towards the end of ownership I couldn't stand it. I'd day dream about getting a new TL and doing a sound deadening project. After getting my new TL I was shock at how quiet the car was and haven't thought about the need for sound deadening again. As for stiffness I drove and road as a passanger in the GS as a passanger for a few miles (great car) it felt like I was floating not driving but in a good way. Being that it was not my car I never pushed it to see how it felt when driven aggressively. My previous 4G was lowered on H&R springs somewhat stock feeling but not really, but still live able. My new TL on stock suspension feels so comfy I couldn't imagine riding on anything softer; I'm not a senior citizen with herniated discs unable to withstand a minor jolt.

My aunt is a physician by the way with funds to spare in 2011 she traded in her GS lease and got a FWD 4G. To my surprise I asked her why she changed vehicles (I thought the GS was more fitting), she said I like the TL, the TL does everything the GS did, has all the features and cost me a lot less a month. I just laughed and though to myself, even non enthusiast are conscious about the value of the TL. Her FWD IMO is GS soft.