Stew4HD

So, we see by the poll that maybe Acura didn't do enough or did too much to the TL to boost sales.

What should have been done? Stayed the same and lived with lackluster sales "blamed" on the looks? Maybe they should have went ahead with a 5G?

This not a pro-con on the '12, per se, just opening up for opinion.

IMO, the economy is more to blame than the aggressive looks for lower than expected sales but not helped by the mags/reviews.

compewterbleu

The path they choose is the right one IMO, many feel the changes were to minor. But my argument would be this is still the same generation, just MMC, how much do you truly change?

Coming out with the 5G this soon would be a major financial undertaking costing them a mint. This is only the 3 year of the change from the 3G. This design will be around at least until late 2012-13. That givens them at least 4 years until they have to retool for a new model. Who knows the 2013 model may boost hp and add a few tweaks here and there. The Ford Taurus is being tweaked with major hp being added and body work.
The economy is a HUGE factor in car sales. Folks may want a $40k car but settle for a $25k vehicle under current conditions.

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

From a businessman's perspective

leave the design alone. cut the # of manufactured units... take the savings made, and invest highly into more R&D on the 5G appearances.

Unfortunately, we all know the Honda Accord 9G will be the basis of the 5G TL... so Acura should partner with Honda and do a demographics check on the current desired market

Problem is, in my opinion

TL was geared for 35+ adults (and for some reason, 65+ year old ladies!!)

younger population took a liking to the cost, value and appeal of the car... so Acura developed "Type-S" models on the 2G... quicker, sportier, sexier.

Same with the 3G, target audience was primarily middle age and up. Given the beautiful and aggressive lines and supreme value, younger crowd became VERY intrigued by the car, and pursued a purchase.. then 3G type-s was one of Acura's flagship models IMO (2nd best to the Legend Coupe)

then the 4G came out.. Acura decided to live up to its reputation of "outside-the box and ahead-of-its-time designing"... They wanted to find a balance between older and younger crowd desires... that moot point, became their downfall... you cant please everybody!!! trying to have an aggressive, yet subtle design is an oxymoron.

Me personally, i LOVE my 4G... looks, value, interior, design... everything from soup to nuts (except the usual , crappy SOHC engine design = less power than competition)

jjsC5

It's an interesting question, and a good one. I didn't like the 4.0 styling. 15 months ago I bought a Lexus GS instead of an Acura. I can say 100% that if the Acura had the 4.5 changes (styling, 6 spd auto, ventilated seats) I would have bought one. I was very close even without those issues, and those were exactly my issues. I would have saved a bunch of money. In a lot of ways I actually like the TL better than the Lexus anyway.

On the other hand, I can see where current owners of the 4.0 are coming from. The restyle is does make it look somewhat bland in the front - although I personally do think it's a big step in the right direction.

If it were my decision, I think I would have spent a little more time tweaking the front end, offer a painted "monochrome" paint treatment (of the grill), and then looked for some other areas to tweak some interest. Horsepower always tweaks my interest, and pulling 330 hp from a direct injected version of the 3.7 could not have been all that hard, could it? This is the company that built it's reputation on engine technology.

Aman

I think MMCs are pretty limiting. There was no way they could change the TL drastically enough for it to get the same acceptance as the 3G TL. I think Acura did what they could, but we'll have to wait for the 5G to see if Acura learned anything significant.

Glashub

Why is no discussing what thew earthquake, etc. will potentially do to pricing, incentives, and avail. The economy and infrastructure are frozen right now and will be for a while.

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

^ Acura is an American car company... although their parent is Honda, I don't see this earthquake effecting our economy or the Acura line-up

jasonwdp10

That's because the title of the thread is "what SHOULD acura have done?"

Not, "how the earthquake is effecting current 4g owners" There are many threads for that and that even isn't directly related to the 4gtl.

Acura threw in crazy incentives to sell the 4gtl, the entire market is still heavily reliant on incentives. Even with the 4.5gtl, it would be foolish to remove incentives completely. I can see there being no incentives for the first few months, but sales will normalize after that, and incentives will continue.

jasonwdp10

What I think they should have done was release the 4gtl with the advanced package and 6 speed auto.

I honestly felt robbed when I bought my TL. Not because it isn't a good value (a good value is exactly why I bought it), but because acura had all those things (6 speed, ventilated seats, BSI) in other vehicles already (for 2010), but failed to release them to TL buyers, who some of their most loyal customers (just see the # of people re-buying the TL year after year)

At the time (just last year), i looked around and saw that acura was the only one that still had a 5 speed, one of the slowest to 60, not even close to being the most quiet. I could not wait, I needed a car, and honestly, acura is still the best bang for your buck, despite the lack of newer tech they already had sitting around.

With the 4.5g restyling, I think they went from too futuristic, to too bland. For example, the grill is about 1/2 the size (or even less) than it was. Will it sell more? probably. I think we all learned from toyota that bland sells. Acura also appears to have learned that quiet cars sell (3db noise reduction) and I hope their cars become more quiet over time.

I am still looking to buy another acura after this, but i feel tricked by acura. What if i buy a 5gtl, then the 5.5gtl comes out and has a 7 speed auto and a new V6? all for $300 more?

Due to this, I will no longer buy the first 3 years of any acura, since they save all the goodies and "fix the mistakes" they made initially. Getting "tricked" 2 gens in a row will probably make me defect from the acura brand completely.]

Regardless, I'm currently waiting to see the 2GRDX and 5GTL, and see how they are. Then proceed to buy the MMC of either of those vehicles.

winstrolvtec

^At the same time buying the MMC usually only gives you two years before you get "robbed" or "tricked" again with a whole new gen. At least the intro year gives you 3 years whether it's a 5 or 6 year cycle. No matter what, it's never ending with any brand.

A major reason I buy Honda/Acura is because I like a new car every few years and they are the least likely to make major changes outside of MMC. Besides this gen TL with it's 4-5 month early MMC of really just the FWD model, their timing and changes are very predictable.

Glashub

You know what I'm tired of getting slammed by forum members. I get slammed for starting threads. I get slammed for asking a reasonable question in the wrong thread according to some resentful person who hates that he bought too much car and an FWD at that.

Acura may be an American company but we live in a global economy. Oil is fluctuating, the stock market is down, all because of Japan and you smug people think Acura and America are immune???

jasonwdp10

hm you're also right about that.

i guess I was thinking of more the body style. Like if you liked this body style, you'd get the more efficient + feature packed one in the 2012-2013 SHAWD Advanced.

Initially, I was going to take a large loss and get back into a 2012 SHAWD Advanced, but after thinking about the money I already put into it, and the additional money it would cost me to not only cover a loss of 5-6k but move up for an additional $4k for SHAWD + $2k for Advanced= $6k Which would make it a $49k TL that I could have gotten for $43-44k with 0.9% financing the way they were throwing out incentives at the time. I'll guess just wait for something else.

jasonwdp10

I'm not "slamming" you. I'm stating simple things you chose to ignore. Here's something from the original post:

" What should have been done? Stayed the same and lived with lackluster sales "blamed" on the looks? Maybe they should have went ahead with a 5G? "

The earthquake happened 3-4 days ago. What does the earthquake have to do with the 4gtl and the 4.5gtl, which were both developed before the earthquake?

Unless you're somehow implying that the earthquake, which happened before the weekend, affected the development of the 4 and 4.5gtl....

jspagna1

jspagna1

Ok can we get back to the subject now?

I think Acura went to far with the 4G TL design. It was a little too daring for the time and people were not ready for what Acura did.They hit a home run with the 3G TL and should have expanded on a proven and successful design. I'm glad they made it bigger, but they should have made it a size between the 3G & the 4G size.
They should have incorporated all the 4G improvements plus the six speed transmission, cooled seats, etc. It's almost as if they should have come out with the 2012 before the 2009?
This is my first Honda/Acura vehicle so I am hoping for a long lasting relationship with troublefree driving.

TL Tech 18

Alrighty then ........ I love my 2010 TL body style, and don't think it needed any changes....

Steven Bell

iTrader: (2)

Guys, let's keep this calm, OK. Please stay on topic too.

This is an opportunity for you to be a car designer and marketer.

sddale

I think that they did a decent job on it without making major/costly updates.

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

Oil isnt "up" because of Japan... its up, because people are fearing that Japan will impact costs... in fact, the way oil works... most of the cost/inflation is based of fears... oil is traded just like stocks. how much of the world's oil comes from Japan???

In fact, from this terrible disaster, i would imagine Japan's consumption of oil is DOWN.

Prayers with the families... but i highly doubt this will impact Acura's 2011 sales figures

so you are basically saying, that because of the Tsunami.... that Acura wont be able to sell the new TL that well? or offer incentives? i'd like to hear your theory and logic behind that...

Mr Marco

Good luck getting that Acura to move off the assembly line without an engine or transmission

Stew4HD

IMO, they should have embraced the "ugliness" by playing it up. The model has been out long enough for people to get used to it, so why not make that your platform?

For those that don't want to be like everyone else, not drive the cookie cutter.. etc. From what I read on here from TL owners, especially the 4G, you all like that you are distinct, unique, well, different!

Acura could have should how the car may seem liek an ugly duckling but a true swan lies beneath.. dare to be different!

Glashub

I'm saying anything. I'm asking on a thread asking what Acura should have done which implies what it should do next. From the LA Times - "Japan quake likely to affect business globally. The disaster could lead to a long-term disruption in the world's supply of automobiles, consumer electronics and machine tools." The dollar is down to an alll time low against the yen. How will that affect sales at a critical time. Even though the car is made in America, the profits are invested by Japanese business men, and converted to yen, right?

I know the thread is about the style but I didn't think my question is that off base considering the melt down of Japan will affect the global economy for years.

Here's the link to the Times article and there are many more like this out thwere by leading economists, http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...,2713425.story

Anyways didn't mean to derail the thread but didn't want to start a new thread. I just wonder what will happen to price of parts, transportation for parts, price of car, and willingness to offer incentives.

CalgaryAWDTL

Good question....

IMHO they should've done nothing with the 4G and waited for the 5G launch in a few years or maybe release it one year sooner.

Sales are down for most manufacturers when comparing successive model generations but that is mainly due to the economic woes. This 4G design was actually starting to grow on people and sometimes with bold designs it does take time to accept. I really don't believe this facelift will amount to much improvement in sales.

CalgaryAWDTL

Good questions and I would recommend starting a new thread with this topic.

Colin

Well that (somewhat) implies that the design and engineering work is 'done' and they're holding it till 2014 when this is not the case. Work on the next gen chassis begins when the previous one is launched, and continues till the first chassis jigs and body panel dies are built. The TL and Accord share the development cycle, and I'm sure its not as easy to 'push it up a year' as it is for us to type and discuss it!

KeithL

Acura did what it coudl do with an MMC. My guess is sales were never what they hoped for so to limit financial risk they did NOT do a Type-S. They also spent as little as possible and fixed the biggest complaints, the nose the tail and the wheels. They offered up a few goodies in the Advance package to entice a few people back that may be looking at the competition that either offeres those options or was a similar value. Anything else needs to wait for the 5G, now let's hope Acura learned a valuable lesson to not screw over a successful formula (3G) too much. They could have evolved the 3G into a larger car with some styling enhancements. What I honestly struggle with is Honda/Acura styling; do they not see what the competition is doing? Look at the styling coming out of Infiniti, Lexus, BMW and even the likes of Volvo and Hyundai.

Glashub

This is all I'm trying to say...you might have to hurry or wait, "About half of all the Japanese-branded vehicles sold in North America are built in North America. But many of those factories still rely on Japanese parts makers for everything from engines and transmissions to the smallest “widgets,” notes analyst Peterson. If there is no additional source available for such components, U.S. car plants like the Nissan facility in Canton, Miss., or the Honda factory in East Liberty, Ohio, could be in trouble, he said.

Japanese factories traditionally rely on a “just-in-time” manufacturing system — where inventory is delivered to the factory by suppliers only when needed for assembly — but there’s a relatively long supply chain from Japan, so Peterson said the impact on those “transplant” assembly plants might not be felt until early April.

The impact of the crisis will likely vary from model to model, analysts say. Early signs suggest Honda could be hit particularly hard. Its Sayama plant, located in one of the regions of Japan hit hardest by the disaster, is a key assembly center, producing models like the Honda CR-V, Accord and Fit, some of them for export to the United States, as well as Acura’s RL and the TSX model. In addition, Honda said the Ogawa Plant, in quake-damaged Saitama, produces automobile engines.

For U.S. consumers, the situation might, at least briefly, repeat some of the product shortages experienced two decades ago when Japanese automakers agreed to so-called “voluntary” restraints on exports to the United States. That led to a sharp run-up in the price of Japanese automobiles."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42087174/ns/business-autos/

compewterbleu

Because some one puts a bow on shit doesn't mean it's something more than shit. BMW does have a few nice design, however the substance of them isn't truly all that. 2 friends where I work have 7 series and both within months of each other dumped them due to the maintenance cost and how often they are off the road to be tweaked. Infiniti, the quality of their top of the line isn't all that, Lexus is like an old folks car to me, designs are so passe', Volvo has that crazy new look and Hyundai doesn't really pack as solid as a punch as thought, I got up on a Sonota and went through it was like...pretty wrapper.

Honda/Acura styling to me, is just centered to those who are more apt to go to a museum of modern art than to a guns show. More folks think in the box than outside the box. I live in Bubbaville where trucks/SUVs and American cars that folks can work on themselves rule.

compewterbleu

Also the 3G was a success I feel they truly honed into what it was, I went to an introduction event in GA before it was available for sale and the reception was lukewarm at best. Even after driving the car folks weren't sure what to make of it. Then I notice the psychological mood of folks...I and one other guy were discussing the aesthetics vs the functions and people were like well yeah it will grow on me or I'm sure they'll tweak it over time and a spoiler and stuff will make it more appealing. To me it wasn't until the Type-S with other design revisions that the car truly took off. Add to this the economy was way different then and the Honda/Acura value, price and reliability factored in.

Mr Marco

I'm stuck paying off this TL for the next 4yrs anyhow, unless gas goes to $6, it's mine for a while.

compewterbleu

HighRevving

I think the 4G look is pretty aggressive and will take some time to settle in – I like it. But I am really disappointed with the performance numbers. 305hp/273ftlbs @ the crank is just not cutting it for ~4k lbs curb weight nowadays IMHO.

JM2010 SH-AWD

Do you think 0-60 in 5.2, 68.4 mph in slalom and 113 feet 60-0 are not good enough for a sub-$40K (actual prices paid) car that is roughly the same size dimensionally as a 5 series? I don't know of many, if any, cars in the class that have materially better numbers.

JAB00

For some people it's not about actual performance numbers. They are a gluten for HP or torque for the sake of it even if there's no real world application. It's like those who get a diamond ring that is colorless vs near colorless. No real-world difference but significantly more expensive. It's a prestige factor.

jasonwdp10

i think hp is fine, it's the TL's weight that is an issue

but of course, there's no reason to improve it because there are heavier vehicles in it's class right?

jspagna1

Not surprised. A lady my wife works with went from a Lexus RX 350 to a BMW 3 Series with XDRIVE and had it for like a year and went to a BMW X5. She said she hated the 3 Series and that it was waay to small.

Mr Marco

Colorless? I think some individuals have thought that they got cubic zirconia when they paid for a diamond. It is what it is (4G). Wife and I really wanted the CTS-V but we couldn't come up with the extra 30K (fucking money-sucking kids), so we settled. Come to think of it I wanted some one who looked like Brittany Snow
But I ended up with this instead

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

^ if thats really with your wife, and your degrading her online... i feel sorry for her!

sorry to be so blunt

HighRevving

That is what I meant. That hp spec is a bit weak for the weight and I was hoping Acura would do a little better. But i personally like the 4G as a total package. The consumer gets plenty for the $$.

HighRevving

Agree, and those are the most disliked consumers in the automotive industry because they demand a scarce commodity (that has no real world application) – engine throughput. It is indeed alot easier to integrate electronics (amenities) than it is to incorporate performance hardware. So yea I would prefer you cut down on the amenities (think relatively easy DYIs) and give me ponies instead but I AM a disliked consumer.

Now please allow to go back and scrutinize Mr Marco's post