TL vs S4 rambings and shoppings (long) *UPDATE* pg 3 BOUGHT AN S4!
08-30-2010, 08:55 AM
#201
Mademoiselle Chanel!!
Nah, it's simple. I believed the advertising/hype and partisans like you, and believed the Acura TL was a 1st Tier luxury sports sedan. But my standards are higher than yours. I'm also less prone to believing in boogeymen than you are - you've made it clear you consider me a troll, and by extrapolation somehow believe that I spent $40+K just to make fun of you. Trust me, you aren't worth it and since you present such a poor public persona, there wouldn't be any point in me trying to worsen it anyhow.
I acknowledged months ago that the TL was a bad choice for me. But to the other poster, no, I didn't spend months analyzing the S4 either. I made a list of about 25 items that my previous Audis had or that I considered essential in any decent luxury car, about 18 of which the TL lacks. By my standards, it's a piss-poor luxury car, but again, I realize that to some of you it's the bee's knees. The S4 is missing about three of the 25 - no electrically folding mirrors or headlight washers anymore, for example. But had the TL been just a bit closer than it was, the rest wouldn't have annoyed me so badly.
Of course, Acura themselves realized the TL isn't a luxury car after I bought it, when they re-positioned it from "luxury" to "smart-luxury", which they qualified as "value", which of course is the opposite of luxury. Some of y'all buy into that, but that's the slope that leads to Kia and Scion being luxury cars.
What the TL is (in my mind) is a great mid-sized (or large) sports-sedan. Just not a luxury one. The S4 is a bit smaller inside, a lot smaller outside, is faster, quieter and more luxurious, and costs 25% more. It's not a direct price-competitor.
I acknowledged months ago that the TL was a bad choice for me. But to the other poster, no, I didn't spend months analyzing the S4 either. I made a list of about 25 items that my previous Audis had or that I considered essential in any decent luxury car, about 18 of which the TL lacks. By my standards, it's a piss-poor luxury car, but again, I realize that to some of you it's the bee's knees. The S4 is missing about three of the 25 - no electrically folding mirrors or headlight washers anymore, for example. But had the TL been just a bit closer than it was, the rest wouldn't have annoyed me so badly.
Of course, Acura themselves realized the TL isn't a luxury car after I bought it, when they re-positioned it from "luxury" to "smart-luxury", which they qualified as "value", which of course is the opposite of luxury. Some of y'all buy into that, but that's the slope that leads to Kia and Scion being luxury cars.
What the TL is (in my mind) is a great mid-sized (or large) sports-sedan. Just not a luxury one. The S4 is a bit smaller inside, a lot smaller outside, is faster, quieter and more luxurious, and costs 25% more. It's not a direct price-competitor.
I'm done with this issue and hopefully you never remark, reply, or address anything I post on here in the future. Hopefully the moderators take firm action when dealing with this issue.
08-30-2010, 12:48 PM
#202
Nah, it's simple. I believed the advertising/hype and partisans like you, and believed the Acura TL was a 1st Tier luxury sports sedan. But my standards are higher than yours.
I made a list of about 25 items that my previous Audis had or that I considered essential in any decent luxury car, about 18 of which the TL lacks. By my standards, it's a piss-poor luxury car, but again, I realize that to some of you it's the bee's knees. The S4 is missing about three of the 25 - no electrically folding mirrors or headlight washers anymore, for example.
S4 is a great car (buddy has a yellow 2006 S4)...I would take it over my TL if I wasn't starting a family and still into the racing/touring scene...I still have my 95 MR2 for that (which I only get to play with about once every other month
).Techno, I'm assuming you're from Seattle area...went to UW and loved the area. Definitely somewhere that you'll get full use of the S4 technology. I guess I can be considered "smart luxury" because I took my position and salary and moved back to Dallas (born and raised) and paying less than half in living expenses. I'm just trying to grasp the notion that you are the only one who can define "luxury" for what it is.
LUXURY - something that is an indulgence rather than a necessity.
When I think of "necessity" car, it's going to be something like a Corolla, Civic, Fit, Sentra, etc. They are made to go to point A to B and do it in a competitive way for it's class. Then you move to a bigger class car for necessity, like Accords, Maximas, Camry, etc. Cars for the 2 adults, 3 kids that has enough hp and standard options for the modern family. You can't tell me that you truly think the TL doesn't contain enough options for indulgence rather than necessity...and if you still think so, then great, can't convince you logically otherwise I guess.
One funny thing I find about some "luxury" cars like BMW is after 5-10 years on the road, they're horrible (unless you totally baby the crap out of it). The luxurious standard LEATHERETTE is ripped, the antique looking stereo system has fried, the engine is now running so rich that it gets maybe 12mpg. I will take standard real leather over folding side mirrors any day of the week. My cousin still has my old 1997 TL, and it's still in great shape compared to most luxury cars in that era. I got out of my 2006 3 series and into the TL before major problems arose.
When I think of "necessity" car, it's going to be something like a Corolla, Civic, Fit, Sentra, etc. They are made to go to point A to B and do it in a competitive way for it's class. Then you move to a bigger class car for necessity, like Accords, Maximas, Camry, etc. Cars for the 2 adults, 3 kids that has enough hp and standard options for the modern family. You can't tell me that you truly think the TL doesn't contain enough options for indulgence rather than necessity...and if you still think so, then great, can't convince you logically otherwise I guess.
One funny thing I find about some "luxury" cars like BMW is after 5-10 years on the road, they're horrible (unless you totally baby the crap out of it). The luxurious standard LEATHERETTE is ripped, the antique looking stereo system has fried, the engine is now running so rich that it gets maybe 12mpg. I will take standard real leather over folding side mirrors any day of the week. My cousin still has my old 1997 TL, and it's still in great shape compared to most luxury cars in that era. I got out of my 2006 3 series and into the TL before major problems arose.
Last edited by ChaChaCharles; 08-30-2010 at 01:02 PM.
08-30-2010, 01:54 PM
#203
I think a number of us have nearly the same amount of "luxury" standards unfortunately we all have different citeria and priorities for our daily drivers. Some of us have a budget, others who don't, feel the premium price tag attached to other brands might not be worth it. Some don't want to sacrifice Honda reliability and Acura safety and resale.
Those Acura highlights sell cars all by themselves and they are another type of "standard". I know I am not willing to scarifice those standards for the sake of a little more luxury and much higher price tag to go with it. Most of us are ok with a cheaper luxury alternative, it is still good enough to be considered luxury in the first place. It comes down to what type of standard you are mostly looking for.
I would have liked a slightly more refined TL or car in general as much the next guy with a few more little features that others offer. I would have gladly paid a few grand more to get that too but the problem is (besides them not yet making that available on the TL) I am not willing to go the alternative route.
Forgoing the power and performance, as well as the other things mentioned above, and getting a similarly priced base mid level or a well equipped base entry instead was not an option. I can't have a car less then moderately loaded with all of today's electronics and technologies either and I prefer the larger mid sized vehicle. I also want AWD and a 6MT combo. I don't think $15-$20k more for the same type of capacity in another luxury sedan, with same level of performance with just a few more features and few added touches is worth it. For me it was never all about the money, my monthly payment is adequate to cover a well equipped mid level lease but I think financing the TL is a much smarter investment. Smart luxury and better value.
I am not losing out on much. The power and performance is there, as is the capacity, I am potentially gaining in the areas of resale and reliability, in most cases an added level of safety and low cost maintenance. So I have to rough it with only an average amount of luxury, big deal. The TL is great on all the other levels as explained and for the price it's no wonder most of us consider the best value for our criteria and is why we are here and are able to overlook so much controversy that surrounds the styling.
We have had this discussion before but it's about what your priorities are and what you are willing to sacrifice to get that. With the TL you sacrifice luxury or refinement and a few features. For me, unless it's a G sedan, you sacrifice so much more only to gain a marginal level of additional luxury, going with any other competitive luxury sedan but I think it is very important to get what makes you happy no matter the citeria.
Those Acura highlights sell cars all by themselves and they are another type of "standard". I know I am not willing to scarifice those standards for the sake of a little more luxury and much higher price tag to go with it. Most of us are ok with a cheaper luxury alternative, it is still good enough to be considered luxury in the first place. It comes down to what type of standard you are mostly looking for.
I would have liked a slightly more refined TL or car in general as much the next guy with a few more little features that others offer. I would have gladly paid a few grand more to get that too but the problem is (besides them not yet making that available on the TL) I am not willing to go the alternative route.
Forgoing the power and performance, as well as the other things mentioned above, and getting a similarly priced base mid level or a well equipped base entry instead was not an option. I can't have a car less then moderately loaded with all of today's electronics and technologies either and I prefer the larger mid sized vehicle. I also want AWD and a 6MT combo. I don't think $15-$20k more for the same type of capacity in another luxury sedan, with same level of performance with just a few more features and few added touches is worth it. For me it was never all about the money, my monthly payment is adequate to cover a well equipped mid level lease but I think financing the TL is a much smarter investment. Smart luxury and better value.
I am not losing out on much. The power and performance is there, as is the capacity, I am potentially gaining in the areas of resale and reliability, in most cases an added level of safety and low cost maintenance. So I have to rough it with only an average amount of luxury, big deal. The TL is great on all the other levels as explained and for the price it's no wonder most of us consider the best value for our criteria and is why we are here and are able to overlook so much controversy that surrounds the styling.
We have had this discussion before but it's about what your priorities are and what you are willing to sacrifice to get that. With the TL you sacrifice luxury or refinement and a few features. For me, unless it's a G sedan, you sacrifice so much more only to gain a marginal level of additional luxury, going with any other competitive luxury sedan but I think it is very important to get what makes you happy no matter the citeria.
Last edited by winstrolvtec; 08-30-2010 at 02:05 PM.
08-30-2010, 03:05 PM
#204
I think a number of us have nearly the same amount of "luxury" standards unfortunately we all have different citeria and priorities for our daily drivers. Some of us have a budget, others who don't, feel the premium price tag attached to other brands might not be worth it. Some don't want to sacrifice Honda reliability and Acura safety and resale.
Those Acura highlights sell cars all by themselves and they are another type of "standard". I know I am not willing to scarifice those standards for the sake of a little more luxury and much higher price tag to go with it. Most of us are ok with a cheaper luxury alternative, it is still good enough to be considered luxury in the first place. It comes down to what type of standard you are mostly looking for.
I would have liked a slightly more refined TL or car in general as much the next guy with a few more little features that others offer. I would have gladly paid a few grand more to get that too but the problem is (besides them not yet making that available on the TL) I am not willing to go the alternative route.
Forgoing the power and performance, as well as the other things mentioned above, and getting a similarly priced base mid level or a well equipped base entry instead was not an option. I can't have a car less then moderately loaded with all of today's electronics and technologies either and I prefer the larger mid sized vehicle. I also want AWD and a 6MT combo. I don't think $15-$20k more for the same type of capacity in another luxury sedan, with same level of performance with just a few more features and few added touches is worth it. For me it was never all about the money, my monthly payment is adequate to cover a well equipped mid level lease but I think financing the TL is a much smarter investment. Smart luxury and better value.
I am not losing out on much. The power and performance is there, as is the capacity, I am potentially gaining in the areas of resale and reliability, in most cases an added level of safety and low cost maintenance. So I have to rough it with only an average amount of luxury, big deal. The TL is great on all the other levels as explained and for the price it's no wonder most of us consider the best value for our criteria and is why we are here and are able to overlook so much controversy that surrounds the styling.
We have had this discussion before but it's about what your priorities are and what you are willing to sacrifice to get that. With the TL you sacrifice luxury or refinement and a few features. For me, unless it's a G sedan, you sacrifice so much more only to gain a marginal level of additional luxury, going with any other competitive luxury sedan but I think it is very important to get what makes you happy no matter the citeria.
Those Acura highlights sell cars all by themselves and they are another type of "standard". I know I am not willing to scarifice those standards for the sake of a little more luxury and much higher price tag to go with it. Most of us are ok with a cheaper luxury alternative, it is still good enough to be considered luxury in the first place. It comes down to what type of standard you are mostly looking for.
I would have liked a slightly more refined TL or car in general as much the next guy with a few more little features that others offer. I would have gladly paid a few grand more to get that too but the problem is (besides them not yet making that available on the TL) I am not willing to go the alternative route.
Forgoing the power and performance, as well as the other things mentioned above, and getting a similarly priced base mid level or a well equipped base entry instead was not an option. I can't have a car less then moderately loaded with all of today's electronics and technologies either and I prefer the larger mid sized vehicle. I also want AWD and a 6MT combo. I don't think $15-$20k more for the same type of capacity in another luxury sedan, with same level of performance with just a few more features and few added touches is worth it. For me it was never all about the money, my monthly payment is adequate to cover a well equipped mid level lease but I think financing the TL is a much smarter investment. Smart luxury and better value.
I am not losing out on much. The power and performance is there, as is the capacity, I am potentially gaining in the areas of resale and reliability, in most cases an added level of safety and low cost maintenance. So I have to rough it with only an average amount of luxury, big deal. The TL is great on all the other levels as explained and for the price it's no wonder most of us consider the best value for our criteria and is why we are here and are able to overlook so much controversy that surrounds the styling.
We have had this discussion before but it's about what your priorities are and what you are willing to sacrifice to get that. With the TL you sacrifice luxury or refinement and a few features. For me, unless it's a G sedan, you sacrifice so much more only to gain a marginal level of additional luxury, going with any other competitive luxury sedan but I think it is very important to get what makes you happy no matter the citeria.
Everyone enjoy their rides!
08-30-2010, 03:41 PM
#205
Drifting
^ - Wow, thoughtful, respectful posts without bashing others' choices or rides! Imagine that. Aren't we about due for a grill bash or "fugly" comment?
Both views above are well stated. There is no right or wrong here - just a lot of options (we should be happy for that) and a lot of owners' opinions/priorities that we all try to match up best with what's out there.
Both views above are well stated. There is no right or wrong here - just a lot of options (we should be happy for that) and a lot of owners' opinions/priorities that we all try to match up best with what's out there.
08-30-2010, 06:27 PM
#206
I've owned BMWs and Audis. The BMW 3 series is too small for my current needs and tastes. The Audi 4 series was too little car for the money when I compared it against the 2010 TL, SH-AWD, Tech, 6 MT.
I'm not saying any of these cars are bad. My modest point is that the 2010 TL was the best sports sedan for my money at the time. Your mileage may vary.
We call the TL "Ugly Betty." She's my wife's car but I enjoy driving and maintaining her. The manual transmission, coupled with the AWD system, is a potent combo. I would have to spend considerably more money for a comparable experience in a BMW 5 series or larger Audi. I'm comfortable with our decision.
I don't buy into the Lincoln/Dodge comparison. Neither have historically competed against Acura. Cadillac's CTS, on the other hand, may prove to be an up-and-comer. We'll see.
Having said all that, I'll probably leave the Acura fold (just as I did with Audi, BMW, etc.) and explore other manufacturers in three-four years. Maybe something Italian...
I'm not saying any of these cars are bad. My modest point is that the 2010 TL was the best sports sedan for my money at the time. Your mileage may vary.
We call the TL "Ugly Betty." She's my wife's car but I enjoy driving and maintaining her. The manual transmission, coupled with the AWD system, is a potent combo. I would have to spend considerably more money for a comparable experience in a BMW 5 series or larger Audi. I'm comfortable with our decision.
I don't buy into the Lincoln/Dodge comparison. Neither have historically competed against Acura. Cadillac's CTS, on the other hand, may prove to be an up-and-comer. We'll see.
Having said all that, I'll probably leave the Acura fold (just as I did with Audi, BMW, etc.) and explore other manufacturers in three-four years. Maybe something Italian...
08-30-2010, 07:23 PM
#207
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Thanks for posting pics! Really sharp car. I freakin love AUDIs!
I sat in an S4 recently, and was taken aback a bit by the cramped cabin. I have many gripes about my TL, but space and interior ergonomics aren't on that list.
I think I'd have to go with the S5 based on its panther-like appearance, 2 doors (don't like kids, don't want 'em), and more spacious interior. I drive 60 miles round trip every day to work, and I like to spread out a bit.
I just think the S4 is a much better value in terms of what you get for the money.
I sat in an S4 recently, and was taken aback a bit by the cramped cabin. I have many gripes about my TL, but space and interior ergonomics aren't on that list.
I think I'd have to go with the S5 based on its panther-like appearance, 2 doors (don't like kids, don't want 'em), and more spacious interior. I drive 60 miles round trip every day to work, and I like to spread out a bit.
I just think the S4 is a much better value in terms of what you get for the money.
08-30-2010, 07:44 PM
#208
I've owned BMWs and Audis. The BMW 3 series is too small for my current needs and tastes. The Audi 4 series was too little car for the money when I compared it against the 2010 TL, SH-AWD, Tech, 6 MT.
I'm not saying any of these cars are bad. My modest point is that the 2010 TL was the best sports sedan for my money at the time. Your mileage may vary.
We call the TL "Ugly Betty." She's my wife's car but I enjoy driving and maintaining her. The manual transmission, coupled with the AWD system, is a potent combo. I would have to spend considerably more money for a comparable experience in a BMW 5 series or larger Audi. I'm comfortable with our decision.
I don't buy into the Lincoln/Dodge comparison. Neither have historically competed against Acura. Cadillac's CTS, on the other hand, may prove to be an up-and-comer. We'll see.
Having said all that, I'll probably leave the Acura fold (just as I did with Audi, BMW, etc.) and explore other manufacturers in three-four years. Maybe something Italian...
I'm not saying any of these cars are bad. My modest point is that the 2010 TL was the best sports sedan for my money at the time. Your mileage may vary.
We call the TL "Ugly Betty." She's my wife's car but I enjoy driving and maintaining her. The manual transmission, coupled with the AWD system, is a potent combo. I would have to spend considerably more money for a comparable experience in a BMW 5 series or larger Audi. I'm comfortable with our decision.
I don't buy into the Lincoln/Dodge comparison. Neither have historically competed against Acura. Cadillac's CTS, on the other hand, may prove to be an up-and-comer. We'll see.
Having said all that, I'll probably leave the Acura fold (just as I did with Audi, BMW, etc.) and explore other manufacturers in three-four years. Maybe something Italian...
08-30-2010, 08:05 PM
#209
Racer
Thread Starter
Pretty sure your list of 25 could've easily been researched and seen that it was lacking 18 items before the purchase. Unless the list of 25 came after you bought the car...then you're just trying to find every negative thing the car lacks and looking at it in a bias viewpoint. I agree with a few of your points though Techno. The TL does lack a few
I drove nothing but Audis for 14 years. Acura was advertised as equivalent. Some partisans in this forum consider the TL to be S4 or even 535-equivalent; it isn't. I foolishly believed that Acura was up to Audi standards, or had caught up, or however you want to phrase it.
Put another way, it didn't occur to me that I had to research it. The cars I'd driven recently (including Audi, Lincoln, BMW, Mercedes) all had so many things in-common that the Acura TL lacked that it simply didn't occur to me the turkeys would leave out.
In several ways, Acura beats Audi; you get a faster car-for-the-dollar and a larger car-for-the-dollar. But both are true with certain Mustang and Camaro models too. And Kia, because the dollars are less. But the ways it fails, I didn't think to check.
Now, of course, I know better. You, having lived with Acuras for longer and not necessarily being used to Audis, have different baseline expectations.
08-30-2010, 08:27 PM
#210
Drifting
We're just a bunch of low-lifes who know no better than to be satisfied with our meager TLs. Someday we can aspire to aim higher.
08-30-2010, 08:46 PM
#211
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^ - Wow, thoughtful, respectful posts without bashing others' choices or rides! Imagine that. Aren't we about due for a grill bash or "fugly" comment?
Both views above are well stated. There is no right or wrong here - just a lot of options (we should be happy for that) and a lot of owners' opinions/priorities that we all try to match up best with what's out there.
Both views above are well stated. There is no right or wrong here - just a lot of options (we should be happy for that) and a lot of owners' opinions/priorities that we all try to match up best with what's out there.
Thankfully those posters don't make up the bulk of Acurazine and we have insightful posters such as you and Smarty, and I give Techno kudos for not allowing his beliefs to get shouted down by some of these select few.
Last edited by MyCarIsntInMyWifesName; 08-30-2010 at 08:50 PM.
08-30-2010, 09:00 PM
#212
I drove nothing but Audis for 14 years. Acura was advertised as equivalent. Some partisans in this forum consider the TL to be S4 or even 535-equivalent; it isn't. I foolishly believed that Acura was up to Audi standards, or had caught up, or however you want to phrase it.
Historically it has always been more of a performance, effeciency, value, reliability approach to luxury never about ultimate refinement, ever. The ads don't really stress anything more than resale, value, and safety, today. In the past their marketing seemed to focus on performance and in general there is a distinction between German and Japanese luxury tendencies, maybe this part you were not overly aware of.
As far as the members here comparing it to more expensive vehicles (including myself), I don't think anyone has ever declared it a luxury equivalent to anything costing $10k-$20k more. That doesn't make sense. Only with that of cars in price range and mostly within the entry level. Perhaps a sports and performance and size equivalent, with other areas that are or might be superior for far less money but never anything to do with your interpretation of ultimate luxury.
To be fair you had one brand for many years, a lot (not all) of what you see missing or as failing in the TL, most members here (even those who have also owned Audi's and many other brands) don't consider to be related to luxury and have made that well known to you, like the whole Celsius thing. Some of your complaints just had to do with Audi or past vehicle tendencies alone and naturally after 15 years I would kind of feel like something was missing in a different brand of car too but that shouldn't necessarily be all on Acura or the TL. They do what they do well as do all brands but if that is not align with one's preferences and priorities then they are not looking that good.
You wanted to try something else, it was cheaper and a relatively good deal. They have a good reputation, the car is powerful and fast and large, so you said why not? How much can I miss the brand I have been happy with for a while now and how much could it hurt? It's only a car, plus I'll be saving a decent amount of money.
That seed continued to grow in your head combined with a few more annoyances in the TL than expected and before you knew it you were back to the car and brand you actually wanted in the first place. I am glad you made the decision, everything else is water under the bridge. Now update your sig and enjoy your new ride.
Last edited by winstrolvtec; 08-30-2010 at 09:09 PM.
08-30-2010, 09:03 PM
#213
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I am not critisizing you but Acura, although technically a luxury division with luxury cars, have never really been known for their luxury, does that make sense?
Historically it has always been more of a performance, effeciency, value, reliability approach to luxury never about ultimate refinement, ever. The ads don't really stress anything more than resale, value, and safety, today. In the past their marketing seemed to focus on performance and in general there is a distinction between German and Japanese luxury tendencies.
As far as the members here comparing it to more expensive vehicles, I don't think anyone has ever declared it a luxury equivalent to anything costing $10k-$20k more. That doesn't make sense. Only with that of cars in price range and mostly within the entry level. Perhaps a sports and performance and size equivalent, with other areas that are or might be superior for far less money but never anything to do with your interpretation of ultimate luxury.
To be fair you had one brand for many years, a lot (not all) of what you see missing or as failing in the TL, most members here (even those who have also owned Audi's and many other brands) don't consider to be related to luxury and have made that well known to you, like the whole Celsius thing. Some of your complaints just had to do with Audi or past vehicle tendencies alone and naturally after 15 years I would kind of feel like something was missing in a different brand of car too but that shouldn't necessarily be all on Acura or the TL.
You wanted to try something else, it was cheaper and a relatively good deal. They have a good reputation, the car is powerful and fast and large, so you said why not? How much can I miss the brand I have been happy with for a while now and how much could it hurt? It's only a car, plus I'll be saving a decent amount of money.
That seed continued to grow in your head combined with a few more annoyances in the TL than expected and before you knew it you were back to the car and brand you actually wanted in the first place. I am glad you made the decision, everything else is water under the bridge. Now update your sig and enjoy your new ride.
Historically it has always been more of a performance, effeciency, value, reliability approach to luxury never about ultimate refinement, ever. The ads don't really stress anything more than resale, value, and safety, today. In the past their marketing seemed to focus on performance and in general there is a distinction between German and Japanese luxury tendencies.
As far as the members here comparing it to more expensive vehicles, I don't think anyone has ever declared it a luxury equivalent to anything costing $10k-$20k more. That doesn't make sense. Only with that of cars in price range and mostly within the entry level. Perhaps a sports and performance and size equivalent, with other areas that are or might be superior for far less money but never anything to do with your interpretation of ultimate luxury.
To be fair you had one brand for many years, a lot (not all) of what you see missing or as failing in the TL, most members here (even those who have also owned Audi's and many other brands) don't consider to be related to luxury and have made that well known to you, like the whole Celsius thing. Some of your complaints just had to do with Audi or past vehicle tendencies alone and naturally after 15 years I would kind of feel like something was missing in a different brand of car too but that shouldn't necessarily be all on Acura or the TL.
You wanted to try something else, it was cheaper and a relatively good deal. They have a good reputation, the car is powerful and fast and large, so you said why not? How much can I miss the brand I have been happy with for a while now and how much could it hurt? It's only a car, plus I'll be saving a decent amount of money.
That seed continued to grow in your head combined with a few more annoyances in the TL than expected and before you knew it you were back to the car and brand you actually wanted in the first place. I am glad you made the decision, everything else is water under the bridge. Now update your sig and enjoy your new ride.
08-31-2010, 08:30 AM
#214
Racer
Thread Starter
I am not critisizing you but Acura, although technically a luxury division with luxury cars, have never really been known for their luxury, does that make sense?
Historically it has always been more of a performance, effeciency, value, reliability approach to luxury never about ultimate refinement, ever. The ads don't really stress anything more than resale, value, and safety, today. In the past their marketing seemed to focus on performance and in general there is a distinction between German and Japanese luxury tendencies, maybe this part you were not overly aware of.
As far as the members here comparing it to more expensive vehicles (including myself), I don't think anyone has ever declared it a luxury equivalent to anything costing $10k-$20k more. That doesn't make sense. Only with that of cars in price range and mostly within the entry level. Perhaps a sports and performance and size equivalent, with other areas that are or might be superior for far less money but never anything to do with your interpretation of ultimate luxury.
To be fair you had one brand for many years, a lot (not all) of what you see missing or as failing in the TL, most members here (even those who have also owned Audi's and many other brands) don't consider to be related to luxury and have made that well known to you, like the whole Celsius thing. Some of your complaints just had to do with Audi or past vehicle tendencies alone and naturally after 15 years I would kind of feel like something was missing in a different brand of car too but that shouldn't necessarily be all on Acura or the TL. They do what they do well as do all brands but if that is not align with one's preferences and priorities then they are not looking that good.
You wanted to try something else, it was cheaper and a relatively good deal. They have a good reputation, the car is powerful and fast and large, so you said why not? How much can I miss the brand I have been happy with for a while now and how much could it hurt? It's only a car, plus I'll be saving a decent amount of money.
That seed continued to grow in your head combined with a few more annoyances in the TL than expected and before you knew it you were back to the car and brand you actually wanted in the first place. I am glad you made the decision, everything else is water under the bridge. Now update your sig and enjoy your new ride.
Historically it has always been more of a performance, effeciency, value, reliability approach to luxury never about ultimate refinement, ever. The ads don't really stress anything more than resale, value, and safety, today. In the past their marketing seemed to focus on performance and in general there is a distinction between German and Japanese luxury tendencies, maybe this part you were not overly aware of.
As far as the members here comparing it to more expensive vehicles (including myself), I don't think anyone has ever declared it a luxury equivalent to anything costing $10k-$20k more. That doesn't make sense. Only with that of cars in price range and mostly within the entry level. Perhaps a sports and performance and size equivalent, with other areas that are or might be superior for far less money but never anything to do with your interpretation of ultimate luxury.
To be fair you had one brand for many years, a lot (not all) of what you see missing or as failing in the TL, most members here (even those who have also owned Audi's and many other brands) don't consider to be related to luxury and have made that well known to you, like the whole Celsius thing. Some of your complaints just had to do with Audi or past vehicle tendencies alone and naturally after 15 years I would kind of feel like something was missing in a different brand of car too but that shouldn't necessarily be all on Acura or the TL. They do what they do well as do all brands but if that is not align with one's preferences and priorities then they are not looking that good.
You wanted to try something else, it was cheaper and a relatively good deal. They have a good reputation, the car is powerful and fast and large, so you said why not? How much can I miss the brand I have been happy with for a while now and how much could it hurt? It's only a car, plus I'll be saving a decent amount of money.
That seed continued to grow in your head combined with a few more annoyances in the TL than expected and before you knew it you were back to the car and brand you actually wanted in the first place. I am glad you made the decision, everything else is water under the bridge. Now update your sig and enjoy your new ride.
My rant was due to the regular posts here saying, "You should have figured out out in a quick test ride" or "Oh, now you do your research." Those are moronic statements; given the positioning and advertising, and my experience with other (admittedly first-tier luxury, but in theory so's Acura) brands, it simply didn't occur to me that I had to check for those features I considered standard. To me, it'd be like buying a car and finding no 12V power outlets. Some posters here would say, "You should have caught that in the test drive!", but of course it's a standard thing so you don't think to.
08-31-2010, 08:43 AM
#215
Mademoiselle Chanel!!
That was well-written, and I agree with most of it, but that's not how Acura is positioning themselves... and it wasn't really cheaper. The TL I bought costs more than a reasonably-loaded A4Q... faster, but more expensive.
My rant was due to the regular posts here saying, "You should have figured out out in a quick test ride" or "Oh, now you do your research." Those are moronic statements; given the positioning and advertising, and my experience with other (admittedly first-tier luxury, but in theory so's Acura) brands, it simply didn't occur to me that I had to check for those features I considered standard. To me, it'd be like buying a car and finding no 12V power outlets. Some posters here would say, "You should have caught that in the test drive!", but of course it's a standard thing so you don't think to.
My rant was due to the regular posts here saying, "You should have figured out out in a quick test ride" or "Oh, now you do your research." Those are moronic statements; given the positioning and advertising, and my experience with other (admittedly first-tier luxury, but in theory so's Acura) brands, it simply didn't occur to me that I had to check for those features I considered standard. To me, it'd be like buying a car and finding no 12V power outlets. Some posters here would say, "You should have caught that in the test drive!", but of course it's a standard thing so you don't think to.
Sounds like a classic case of not accepting fault. You are finding every excuse for a bad choice in your eyesight. Most here are not concerned with what you view as your higher elevated standards that seem to always exceed others. Get over yourself. Your decision required more research which you didn't do. Man up accept it, redo your signature and move on.
08-31-2010, 09:47 AM
#216
There's a reason some seem to despise you. It's not all just about how much you constantly rant over the same points that Acura seems to lack in your eyes. It's that you try to talk down to people and call people morons and whatnot.
I'm not a moron...I am well-educated and a very logical thinker. You have to be in my line of work or you go busto. I try to be civil to everyone I encounter in reality and in forums. You seem to think you are above this civil line for some reason. I've just asked very warranted questions that was unclear on behavioral changes in decently big decisions. A car is the 2nd most expensive purchase a person makes. You would think they do some research on it. You must be one of those that goes and buys a house in a new property zone because it was advertised as the new and upcoming community and after you moved in, you found out it was downwind from a sewage plant. Now that's moronic!
It's true we have totally different positions on what we want out of our daily drivers. I get it & hope you do too. Now go enjoy your S4 and stop bugging us 2nd-3rd tier guys. Hell, go have more fun and try a BMW forum and rant in there how the M3 lacks what the S4 excels in. Good luck in life Techno and may you find your happy place
08-31-2010, 02:26 PM
#217
That was well-written, and I agree with most of it, but that's not how Acura is positioning themselves... and it wasn't really cheaper. The TL I bought costs more than a reasonably-loaded A4Q... faster, but more expensive.
My rant was due to the regular posts here saying, "You should have figured out out in a quick test ride" or "Oh, now you do your research." Those are moronic statements; given the positioning and advertising, and my experience with other (admittedly first-tier luxury, but in theory so's Acura) brands, it simply didn't occur to me that I had to check for those features I considered standard. To me, it'd be like buying a car and finding no 12V power outlets. Some posters here would say, "You should have caught that in the test drive!", but of course it's a standard thing so you don't think to.
My rant was due to the regular posts here saying, "You should have figured out out in a quick test ride" or "Oh, now you do your research." Those are moronic statements; given the positioning and advertising, and my experience with other (admittedly first-tier luxury, but in theory so's Acura) brands, it simply didn't occur to me that I had to check for those features I considered standard. To me, it'd be like buying a car and finding no 12V power outlets. Some posters here would say, "You should have caught that in the test drive!", but of course it's a standard thing so you don't think to.
As for cost, the TL is less when compared to the S4 and is a relatively good deal in many opinions just in general, plus an A4 is not really any cheaper. It can be, but it is really in the same $40k+ range as is the TL SH when you well equip it with either the premium plus or prestige and any similar amount of features that are standard in the TL price. It's actually the same, around $43k-$44k for how you or I would equip it especially coming from the TL. It has a few more features and luxury touches but is smaller and slower and less performance oriented. Two very good cars and although both luxury they still have different approaches for different types of luxury consumers.
I think the time restraint in your initial buying situation was a big problem also and in your defense some issues that you had that arose are not necessarily things that can be researched or found in test drives but I still think the majority of the blame falls on yourself as there are plenty of Acura owners here and none seem to be complaining about what is missing or have come to expect anything more from the product they chose purchased, and for the price they paid.
At this point though it doesn't matter, if anything else it was a learning experience and it made you better value your loyalty to Audi and their product in general.
Last edited by winstrolvtec; 08-31-2010 at 02:41 PM.
08-31-2010, 06:47 PM
#218
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