Rugel

Maybe it's not the car, it's you guys....I still can't believe some of the complaints we get here.

MurkyRiversTL

Congrats on the purchase Techno. I checked out an S5 before we bought the TL, I just couldnt get into the Audi MMI, one knob to control everything means there is a lot of "going back" to get to another menu...

Post a pic of your ride in the general chat section. I love Audi's, despite the huge problems I have mentioned in previous threads I would still take one lol.

TechnoCat

That is an adjustment. The MMI/computer has a LOT more functionality; you can play your iPod by genre, for example, that is completely missing from the TL, and tell it which data to put in the display between the odometer and speedometer, which seems completely disconnected from the TL's nav (and the phonebook talks to the nav - another bizarre thing missing in the TL), but it took us probably four minutes to figure out how why it was playing the same tracks every time the car started and how to engage shuffle. There are so many options that it can be a challenge, at least initially, to figure out how to do something.

But it is oh so much quieter and more comfortable!

PenguinTL

I still can't believe some of the complaints *I* have about this car compared to the 2 other Acuras I've owned, and 3 Hondas since 2004. Believe me, it upsets me more than anyone else here.

Not all of us are "trolls" just here to bash Acura. We just have high expectations, and these cars just keep getting more expensive So if there are slips in quality, you're gonna hear us whine

But, I'm going to use the warranty for what it's for, and have them try and fix the rattles. I'm just annoyed that at 3,900 miles, I have to take it back for anyone other than an oil change...

PenguinTL

Who cares, they can mind their own business. Put it in another section, and those of us that love everything automotive will enjoy them

compewterbleu

...damn Rugel, you read my mind!

PenguinTL

Okay. Uncle.

Yes, it's just me. I'm imagining the sounds my car with less then 4,000 miles is making I'll be complacent with its defects every month when I make my payment, too.

This is a board for discussions pertaining to the TL - some good, some bad. I have many nice things to say as well, but I'm not going to censor myself so everyone thinks all is well when sometimes, it's NOT. I've given enough business to Acura that I think I've earned the right to whine a bit

docboy

Eh?? If you are referring to me as one of the "guys" FYI I'm a big time Honda/Acura fan (having owned an Accord, Integra, TSX). And yes, my leg is the problem here (esp when I've noted that I have ZERO problems with my prior cars, with my wife's current RX330, and with the MDX loaner I had).

I was one of the very first on AZ to purchase the 2010 TL 6MT, and if I spend $44k on a car, I have some expectations. If they are not met, a few complaints (no matter how big or small they may seem) are in order :wink:

By posting on the forum, perhaps one can help one another to find a resolution (if possible).

FWIW, I think the TL 6MT is an overall top notch vehicle in terms of performance, AWD traction, overall comfort, and reliability.

Back on topic, the S4 is a monster in its own right.

TechnoCat

Me too, excepting the comfort bit. The TL has amazing dry-performance, adequate (but not Audi) bad-weather performance, is large and mostly comfortable. They really nailed sports-car and mid-sized sedan. It's what they missed that I couldn't get past.

MurkyRiversTL

Meaning..... Acura is better than Audi for bad weather performance.... right?

compewterbleu

I'm not touching the argument of Audi vs Acura. I was such a S4 -S5 guy...

MurkyRiversTL

Dont get me wrong, I love Audi. But you cannot say that their bad-weather performance is better than the Acura TL SH-AWD.... I mean you can, but you would be lying. There are videos to prove it..... but maybe they are fake videos.......????

docboy

Gotta clarify, overall comfort (in the rear) for the family and kid For driver comfort, it's OKAY and INCONCLUSIVE at this point (at least for me) due to the leg thing. I think for you, it was the headrests?

Technocat is saying Audi's Quattro is better than Acura's SH-AWD for inclement weather. I have no long term experience with Quattro so I cannot respond, but I will venture to say that either Quattro or SH-AWD is better than soley FWD or RWD during inclement weather. I can personally attest the TL's SH-AWD (and the MDX for that matter) is leaps and bounds better than the 1G TSX FWD during rain/ice/snow.

MurkyRiversTL

^ yeah I got that.... there are videos just for that comparison. Surely, any AWD car is going to handle the bad weather better than an FWD or RWD car. But have you not seen the comparison videos where the audi cant make it up the icy hill and the acura does with ease? I'm pretty sure I wasn't dreaming.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJZxVefta68

docboy

^
Yes, I've those videos. It's a great one to showcase Acura's SH-AWD at work in the winter. As I said before in some of the older threads, Acura would be smart to use some of those clips in their ads to show off their SH-AWD system.

I just wanted to clarify what TechnoCat meant wrt to Audi's Quattro. Which one is the "better" system, a tossup IMHO

MurkyRiversTL

I give credit where credit is due. Audi makes beautiful cars, however they are underpowered unless its an s model. Acura makes beautiful cars (a different beautiful lol) and aslo have underpowered cars. But the AWD system in the TL and all other Acura models is superior to Audi's.... in every way.

cp3117

There are many threads on this when it came out last winter. I believe Acura has this driving event every winter. When Jeff at TOV took the video you posted, even he admitted he showed up late and was unsure what the test critera was, ie: Traction control on/off etc etc. Video can be decieving or manipulating at any time if we dont know the whole story. I could easily post this video of a RL and claim how bad SH-AWD must be in a very simple "Real World" driving situation where the driver is struggling to reach dry ground. where as vehicles from Audi, Subaru etc would blast right out of this, but again maybe the whole story isnt exactly what you see.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSGr-IzrP8k

A couple years ago at the same event with the same vehicles I posted a link in another thread where the driver lost control and buried the MDX into a snowbank after losing control going through a snow packed high speed maneuver course. The same driver/journalist in the Q7 at the same speed and same course/event handled it flawlessly.

The SH-AWD is very good and a well engineered system but if you do some research other than just a video you will see that its not "superior to Audi's.... in every way". IMO I would take a Torsen Quattro system with Torque Vectoring over the SH-AWD. After hearing reviews and reading up on the next generation of Quattro (currently being used only in the RS5) IMO the Quattro system is still the benchmark in the AWD world and cant wait for it to be released to the rest of their models.


To get back on topic....."Techno" its your thread. Let's see some photo's.

MurkyRiversTL

Considering current cars in production and issued on more than one model the TL-SHAWD is better. Unless of course you can prove it isnt? Ive driven a 2010 audi a4 quattro, was it fun? hell yes it was, but it did not handle as well as the TL, completely different feel.

Perhaps a discussion for another thread......

TechnoCat

The A4Q base costs significantly less than the TL SH-AWD Base and is aimed at a different demographic. The S4 Quattro base lists for about $3K more than the TL SH-AWD base and, while lacking torque vectoring without a $1600 or so option, still is the faster track car and superior in bad weather. And a different feel still - more composed on the road, much quieter, but doesn't feel as brutal nor as fast as the TL.

They're very different beasts.

My new S4 has the torque-vectoring sports-diff, but more importantly, it has gobs of low end torque relative to the TL so it drives much more relaxed and quiet in-town. Which is my preference, but many people prefer the BMW/Honda high-revving engine experience. It's largely an issue of taste.

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

Isn't that done by Acura? It didn't appear to be a comparable test, with the others not even being able to hold themselves on the hill often. Looks like the Acura's ESP is still on too. And why do they oddly switch the camera angle so we can barely see wheel movement when the MDX and only the MDX first makes its attempt uphill?

I highly suspect its ESP was engaged while the others were very clearly shut off, and maybe even tires weren't comparable.

SH-AWD is one of the finest in the industry, despite that video or their potential manipulation.

legend74

Of course it was held by Acura but there were numerous auto journalists there to drive the vehicles themselves not just sit and watch Acura employees do it.

legend74

Blast right through ??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSC_n...eature=related

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

Well I haven't read whatever they had to say. I'm just commenting on the video that had multiple oddities.

Which I could put my conspiracy hat on and say they could've rigged that shit too.

Either way, a video and/or review hardly proves SH-AWD is superior or inferior to other systems. Other REAL AWD systems, I should say, not the pretender systems like the RX uses.

Six Shifter

Any test comparo can be stacked. Remember when the G37 coupe was introduced ... in the Arizona desert? Infiniti knew exactly what they were doing when they brought out the 'target' 335i for side-by-side testing ... and it couldn't have been better scripted as enough of the 335's went into "limp mode" as the early run cars were all prone to do. How good did that make the new coupe look to the reading public!

compewterbleu

News flash. I lived in Nebraska, just outside of the Poconos, and Korea...4 wheel drive, all wheel drive...driving on ice is a no go.

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

Exactly.

RIneuron

The first video is a testament to the system, in my view. The car is plowed in with densely packed snow, and looks like it bottoms out when the driver first moves forward. He then wisely turns the wheel to move onto the sidewalk and get traction, then successfully extricates the car. Many vehicles would have been there til Spring.

The second video is a testment to the stupidity of young male drivers ;-)

SebringSilver

That is the dumbest statement I've ever seen on Acurazine, and I've seen a lot of them.

chaiwala

+1

MurkyRiversTL

TechnoCat

I've had the 2011 S4 (Prestige) for six days now. Moving from the 2010 TL SH-AWD 6MT, even at the rather substantial financial hit, was the right
move for me. The TL is a great sports-car in a sedan package, but I was trying to buy a luxury sports sedan, and the TL missed that
target for me. So, at the risk of being called a troll by partisans again, after nearly a week, here's my comparison. The TL does win in some categories.

• Audio/Nav
  • Both have great sound systems.
  • Audi has better iPod integration: Can search, can browse by Genre
  • TL has better inputs: both iPod/USB and Aux. In S4, you can get a cable for Aux, but it plugs into the same place as the iPod.
  • TL remembers where you were last time you were in the car, including shuffle mode. S4 forgets shuffle mode and sometimes restarts playlist on restart.
  • TL phone interface was a bit spotty with my Android phone. S4 connects more reliably, AND can dial any number by name without training!
  • TL's nav is okay, but the search function is annoying due to the categories (see my past posts on finding a Costco, for example) and it doesn't
    integrate with the phone book. The S4 system searches better, has more displays, and does integrate with the phone book, but somehow never
    finds the street address. Haven't figured that out yet.
  • Satellite Radio: Both have it. The S4 has a better unified preset system, but the TL has a more intuitive genre-search capability. (If the S4
    can jump to the next station in a genre/classification, I haven't found it.) The TL also had fewer drop-outs; perhaps the antenna was better.
• Storage
  • TL is larger (but doesn't really feel more useful on the inside.)
  • S4 has a larger trunk with a flat floor. TL SH-AWD does not have a flat trunk floor.
  • S4 rear seats fold, nearly flat. TL can't fold seats.
  • S4 cubbies are quiet. TL cubbies, even for metal/glass sunglasses, are hard plastic, designed to amplify rattles. (My theory is that this
    was intentional to hide road noise and other rattles.
  • TL glovebox is bizarrely divided into useless thin shelves; S4 has a big useful glovebox.
  • S4 comes with a cargo net. Acura wants you to pay $100 for a cargo net. Huh?
• Noise
  • TL sounds like a sports-car. Throaty slightly-raspy engine.
  • S4 engine sounds like motor, very quiet.
  • TL lets in more road and wind noise. (This never bothered me, but apparently bugged my SO)
  • S4 is very quiet.
  • S4 doors thunk, TL doors clink.
  • TL annoys me with verbal seatbelt warnings when I remove seatbelt to reverse. That's pure evil right there.
• Performance
  • TL feels faster. The acceleration is visceral, even jerky.
  • S4 is much smoother, and while technically faster, doesn't feel as impressive.
  • Both corner amazingly well. (I have the S4 Sports Diff, which has torque vectoring just like SH-AWD.)
  • S4 handles slick starts far better; TL spins for a sec. See my posts in early December on this.
  • S4 drives around town better due to gobs of low-end torque. TL needs more shifting (and is funner that way.)
  • TL provides more road-feel through the steering wheel.
  • Shifting: Despite the reviews, I quite liked the TL transmission. It was sometimes balky, but my only real gripe was that the clutch was too
    sudden, coupled with an engine that was also sudden, making smooth driving nearly impossible. The S4 has a great transmission too, and is
    smoother, but that doesn't count for so much for me.
• Luxury
  • Both have most of the check-list of features. But on a scale of 0-100, with 100 being super-expensive luxo-car level, the TL often stops around
    75 while the S4 makes it into the 90s. Examples:
  • S4 is quieter with sun/moonroof open. (It's also quieter with them closed.)
  • The TL bounces around more, has a less composed suspension.
  • The TL seats hurt both my and my SO, especially due to the head restraints. The S4 seats are more comfortable, and also adjust higher (she cares
    as she is pretty tiny), and also have adjustable bolsters. (You can make the seat cushion longer or shorter easily.)
  • Shift Positions: The TL has a nearly-short-throw shifter. Good ergonomics, but I would have liked the center armrest more adjustable. The S4
    shifter is in a slightly strange location, but because the center armrest is fully adjustable (up/down/back/forth) and due to how my SO likes to
    have her hand on mine, it's a better position for us.
  • Configurability. The TL has a decent amount of configurability in the trip computer interface. The S4 has probably three times as much configurability.
    Some of it is really nice, some I'll never touch or perhaps never even understand.
  • Rear Proximity Sensor. I like these, and looked into having one installed in the TL. It's not as redundant with a camera as you might think;
    if you park in tight spaces, and use the mirrors and rear-window, the sensor is invaluable especially when, as I found out a few days ago,
    a dog runs right behind your car. The S4 started beeping suddenly so I looked forward into the video, and saw him having just gotten there
    watching (stalking?) skateboarders. He wasn't visible in mirrors or the window, and wouldn't be in the TL either. I like the proximity
    sensor!
  • The TL looks more electronic and high tech. Buttons everywhere! The S4 looks more refined and luxurious. Women seem to prefer the inside of
    the S4, many men prefer the TL.
  • Adjustable suspension - The S4 has it, the TL doesn't. I have no idea if it matters; I've left it on automatic. (I haven't put 100 miles on the car yet.)
• Features on the S4 that are not on the TL.
  Some posters claim that the S4 is $10K more than the TL when comparably equipped. This is
  not true; you cannot comparably equip them.
  • Rear proximity sensor
  • Rear-door entry sensors
  • Front LED accents, directional headlights. (Maybe not useful, but they are kinda-cool.)
  • Interval signals.
  • Extendable seat bolsters.
  • Quiet sun/moon roof, suspension, engine
  • Folding seats
  • Useful voice control system. (I preferred the voice control in the Lincoln mkZ over the TL's; see my posts from circa late April.)
  • iPod search.
  • Compass in the Mirror. (Yeah, you've got the Nav system. Look up "luxury." )
  • All metal door-jamb. (No styrofoam showing as you look forward with the door open.)

It is true that the S4 I purchased was $10K over the TL SH-AWD. You can get less-loaded S4s for about $3K over the TL SH-AWD 6MT price, but do
sacrifice features at that point. But the TL is an amazing high-speed sports car with sedan-space. It's better at the sports-car thing than the S4. I just wanted a more luxury-oriented car, and the S4 is better at that.

YetiTL

Great comparison, thank you kind sir!

I'm happy to see you enjoy your new ride!

compewterbleu

Add another $7K to the TL design budget and they could be had. Once again, apples to pears.

flyromeo3

those that bash S4's have never owned one. Also, their transmissions seem bullet proof.

Unlike honda/acura that cant seem to properly design or buy problematic free transmissions.

Wonder how long before this AWD system in the TL needs to be recalled.

flyromeo3

meanwhile, I was able to pull my neighbors car out of his driveway when I had my a4 2.8. Mind you I had summer tires on that car in the winter and lowered about 3.0 inches.

The shock on their face as well as mind was priceless.

every car has its advantages and disadvantages. I like Audi because it's never left me stranded on the side of the road.

Honda/ Acura...ehhh...

compewterbleu

here, here, all hail almighty Audi!

winstrolvtec

Congrats and thanks for the well written more objective than usual comparison.

I found a link with an 09 A4 owner complaining about some issues he has with the MMI. I don't know exactly how it relates to some that you mentioned but maybe it could be of use. Personally I find it kind of amusing, he's like the TechnoCat of Audiforums. My idea of a joke.

http://audiforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=134652

Enjoy your ride best of luck.

TLNV

Techno, Glad that you are enjoying your new ride! also "ditto" I always enjoy reading a well thought out real world comparison by someone who has owned both.. Thanks

flyromeo3

It's THE almighty Audi.

btw...sarcasim sounds better when written correctly.

Ramrodthrusterpuppy

^ Oh, sweet irony.

TC...post pix...love the S4! Congrats!