sarge_in

I hear you. Giving an option to erase and reimport the phonebook when required would meet everyone's needs, I would imagine. I know I will get irritated after a few times if I have to sit through a reimport every single time. Hope they fix this!

draph

Made the TL SH-AWD 6MT choice in 2010 over G37 S 6MT for following reasons (based on test drive of G37 Coupe 6MT since sedan 6MT not available at the time).

1. G37 seemed less tractable around town. TL felt like it had more torque in lower revs (or had quicker gearing in the first 4 gears than the G). To enjoy the extra hp in the G, you have to rev the snot out of it (I think their marketing gurus tried to label that "acceleration swell" - I just call it a peaky engine). Checking the discussion boards of enthusiast sites seems to indicate that as well - G gas mileage in the teens for those who drive G "spiritedly" vs. low to mid 20s for those who drive the TL the same way in similar hwy/city ratios. Another argument - the G needs 7 auto gears to get roughly the same acceleration numbers as the TL with 6 gears - seems to imply the TL engine with less *peak* hp may actually have more total power under the full rpm curve. IMHO, *peak* is for advertising and bragging only - the real comparison requires looking at the torque and hp numbers across the entire rev range. Ward's auto seems to be one of the few publications that give you that level of detail to compare true engine performance. But I will admit, there is no doubt you can feel the extra 23 hp when you get the G37 around 6000 rpm compared to the TL (the key question is how often do you want to feel that extra power, and how much gas money are you willing to spend to get it). ...and yes, the SOHC Acura engine seems much less coarse than the DOHC Infiniti.

2. G 6MT rwd and summer tires only. The rwd wasn't a problem (had a BMW 335 that did fine in snow with 4 winter tires), but I learned that there was no way to re-set the TPMS whenever switching between summer/winter tires twice per year without dealer intervention (ie $150 per year if I didn't want to observe a TPMS malfunction indicator light half the year). The BMW let you reset from the drivers seat. The TL automatically detects the sensors in either set of tires, so no dealer or owner intervention required to reset (or so I was told - I opted for the 18" with all-seasons - didn't like the look of the 19s - still wearing out the MXMs until I start switching - and looking forward to quieter rubber which is the bigger part of the TL's road noise issue, IMHO).

3. 1 Infiniti dealer in my local area vs. 3 Acura. Infiniti dealer enjoying his regional monopoly wasn't dealing on a car he'd have to order (Sedan S 6MT). Acura SH-AWD 6MT stickered for nearly 5K more than the G 37 S 6MT optioned out at the time, but ended up getting nearly the same price as the Infiniti dealer was asking. I did try making some internet deals on the G37 - but no one in a 300 mi radius wanted to get serious, either.

4. Got MBM/Umber TL within 6 weeks of ordering. G37 was available as long is it was one of 3 shades of gray, white, black, or fire engine red. No deep reds, blues, greens, or bronzes. ..told me at least 8 wk wait as well.

5. From a patriotic/traditionalist point of view, buying the TL gives more blue collar Americans jobs since it's built mostly in the US (tranny comes from Japan).

6. Really wanted a G8 GXP 6MT (yeah, I know that one was Australian) but the 'tards at GM killed the wrong division before I was ready for a new car. That car was impressive - the rear seat leg room was another 2-3" more than the TL. That was a poor man's BMW M5 and a great family sedan to boot. I test drove when the MTs came out and decided that was it in 2009; but the BMW lease was up in 2010...

sarge_in

Yep, I am thinking very much on the same lines. Just to save the upgrade cost and ongoing costs as well due to better mileage. Yes, handling was superior on a winding road but I usually drive on straight roads. Cornering will also be superior, but coming from a mini-van I am thinking I will be fine.

I think my mind is pretty much made up for the FWD, graphite with taupe interior. How do folks with Advance package like it? The BSI and cooled seats look interesting. The A4 I drove had the BSI on the indicator lights - I found them more distracting than useful. Are the ones on Acura any better?

Stew4HD

I live in the Houston area and there is no "need" for AWD but, I am glad I have it and I love it. It just IS a different driving experience from the FWD.

shappy

I have cooled seats on my Maxima, and I love them. I wish Acura would offer them in combination with the manual tranny, but sadly they don't. In fact, no manufacturer currently offers cooled seats with a manual transmission in a car under $50K (IS250 doesn't count and their seats are merely ventilated and not actively cooled).

jasonwdp10

The TL's seats are also only ventilated, not cooled. I think its mainly the higher end cars (or i guess just select cars like the max) have truly cooled seats (Lexus LS?) most of the rest just have a fan to circulate.

shappy

Oh, I thought they were actively cooled. My Maxima seat is actively cooled and there are a number of Ford and Kia products that also use actively cooled seats. They are made by a company called Amerigon. A truly fantastic product that I will miss once I get rid of my Maxima.

JM2010 SH-AWD

Shappy - one thing. It seems you may be interested in the 6MT if you go for the TL. You may already know this, but unfortunately Acura only offers the 6MT on the AWD cars. It's not available with the 3.5 FWD.

jasonwdp10

When you say actively cooled, does it turn on your a/c compressor when it cools? or is there a mini compressor somewhere in the car?

I'm curious to see what it's like

slick316

I remember seeing the cooled seats in a G37 taken apart at my friends mobile electronics shop. Apparently, its similar to a ventilated seat in that it has a fan that blows air through the perforations of the seat. However, unlike ventilated seats, there is an electric thermal device between the fan and seat. So when you set it cool, this device cools down, and the fan blows the cool air up your butt. Same device is used for the heater also.

I don't have vented seats in my TL, but I've sat in a few that had them, and they work just as well as actively cooled seats, but with less crap that can break down after the warranty is up.

Also, I remember seeing a filter for the seats in the G37. I'm not sure if all cars with cooled/vented seats have them, but it would make sense since there is a fan being used (like a computer case fan).

I liked the idea of the vented seats, I was just too cheap to pay for the advanced model to get them

shappy

And a mighty fine AWD system it is at that!

shappy

It takes advantage of the Peltier effect.

It is amazingly effective at cooling down the seat, and your backside, in hot weather. Some people don't like the result, which can sometimes make it feel as if your seat is cold and wet, but for someone who gets hot easily, it is fantastic.

MyT6MT

For me the AWD in the TL was more a performance perk than anything. It changes ever aspect of the car and is a must have if you can afford the price difference. To me the added bonus was also being able to cut through the NY winter snow.

Make no mistake, just because you don't get foul weather is no reason to not consider the SHAWD. It is worth the price difference.

sarge_in

Btw, I noticed many people are reporting HFL on their older (4-5 yrs) Acuras going out and requiring about $875 for a fix. Anyone here experienced the issue, esp with the 4G?

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX?14@@.f1265a4/160

lji

These kinds of electronic gremlins are bound to happen, so best bet would be an extended warranty (AcuraCare) if you're planning on keeping it long term (I am with mine). A friend has an 07 base TL w/Tech which has an issue with the auto dim on the rear view mirror. It no longer dims the glare. This happened right after the original warranty ran out, so he's bummed about it. A 7yr/100k AcuraCare warranty with $0 deductible should run about $1k.

sarge_in

^^Completely agree. Cars these days are complicated computers with a lot going on, and therefore a lot more to go wrong with time. Another reason why I am not leaning towards the Advance package. I certainly plan to get the AcuraCare from one of the online folks, as I plan to keep it for a while. Did the same with my 2009 Odyssey.

On another note, trying to decide between the Taupe and Ebony interiors. Taupe may be better to keep the car seats a bit cooler, make interior look a bit more spacious. Black may be easier to keep/look clean. Recommendations? Which one will show more use with time?

diddy_nyc

iTrader: (1)

I notice that the dye from my jeans gets onto the taupe interior easily when i am given a loaner from the dealer.

JM2010 SH-AWD

Sarge, as to interior choices, I have the Ebony but was also considering the Taupe for the reasons you've listed. I've been pretty happy with the Ebony (first black interior I've owned). It is easier to keep clean and I've noticed no real issues with it being hotter than lighter-colored interiors of cars I've owned. If you come out on a hot day, just hit the remote to open all four windows and the sunroof. Once you're underway, the A/C does a fantastic job of cooling the car quickly - much better than my last Acura and several Hondas we've owned.

sarge_in

Wow, really?! The seats take the jeans color?! Did it look like a temporary thing or with more lasting effect? That may just decide the issue for me.

Any others with taupe interiors have this issue?

shappy

I have had beige leather in all my recent vehicles ('01 Jetta, '03 Passat, '04 A4, '06 Murano, '07 A4, '09 Maxima, '10 Murano). While the lighter color does show dirt more, I have never had a problem keeping it clean with a damp rag or leather cleaner.

However, I suspect that my next car will have black leather, simply because 2 out of 3 of my candidates only offer black in the trim that I want (TL SH-AWD 6MT and Regal GS). The other car, the A4, gives me the choice of black, grey or beige. I can live with black, as long as the A, B, C pillars and headliner are grey. Otherwise, for me, the interior just looks too dark and dreary.

4GTL

Having had the black interior and now the taupe interior the TL, I personally like the taupe better. I had 34k miles on the previous TL (black leather) when I traded it in, and the leather was starting to show a little wear even though I cleaned and polished it religiously. The taupe does get dirtier quicker, it just doesn't show the wrinkles in the leather as much as the black. Use Lexol Leather Cleaner followed by the Conditioner, it works really well. Just my two cents...

Acura2010

Sarge_in,

Given my last post was not MUCH help, lol......hopefully my input will help you this time. I live just outside of Toronto, and have lots of family in NYC & NJ, so do lots of road trips. atleast 3 times a summer. Now, for the past year that i've owned both cars, i've taken the TL twice and the G once. From Toronto to NYC it's about 9 hours. Just from long drives, i will tell you that if i wasn't fortunate enough to own both cars, if i had to choose one, it would be the TL. The G is great for short sprints, having some fun with the throttle etc. But if you want the best of Performance and Comfort, TL all the way. I could seat in the seats for hours and hours without wanting to get out. I drove about 650km on 1 full tank before fill up. So Fuel economy is great. The G also has great fuel economy, but it lacks comfort. After a few hours i needed to get out of the seat to stretch. Back felt strained, and i'm about 5'10, so my knees started to hurt a bit.

Like everyone can agree, both cars are superb and both have their pros and cons. But if chosing just 1 of them, i would go with the TL simply because it's larger, more comfy, has ample power, handling is great. After all, i did buy the TL first before buying the G, so that i guess is proof that i went with the TL over the G.

Happy shopping!

sarge_in

Now THAT is more helpful! And just in line with what I suspected for longer drives.


Btw, in case folks are curious about what the G37 guys have to say about this - or for others who may be at similar crossroads - here is the link to that thread:

http://www.myg37.com/forums/g37-seda...g37-vs-tl.html

I do plan to do another test drive with G37 today evening, just to be doubly sure..

diddy_nyc

iTrader: (1)

I read through the G37 forum and the majority says the TL is pretty ugly. Haters!

sarge_in

LOL. But a few people still recommended the TL there for its merits.

Some interesting numbers:

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/09...hicles-in.html

diddy_nyc

iTrader: (1)

So which vehicle are you leaning towards?

sarge_in

If I had to buy RIGHT NOW...it would be the TL w/ Tech - just suits my overall requirements a bit better.

The G37 and SHAWD are still in the running though. Hopefully I will know about the G tonight. In any case, I will be buying mid next week only, so still some time to think and more drives. It's fun!

diddy_nyc

iTrader: (1)

Give us your final impressions of the G at the conclusion of your test drive.

shappy

I have driven the G37 6MT and my wife has a G25. I prefer the interior layout and materials of the G over the TL (although the leather on the TL Tech I drove was of higher quality). The TL has more passenger room all around.

The drivetrain on the TL is much smoother than the G37 and about equal to the G25 (power difference not withstanding). The manual transmission on the G was dreadful. I found the shifter very notchy and the clutch engagement was not very progressive. This combination resulted in the G being very hard to drive smoothly. The fact that having the manual deletes the rear A/C vents and results in an unusable abbreviated center armrest, along with the poor mileage (as reported by most owners) and the staggered sized tires/wheels (which would preclude tire rotations) made it undesirable for me.

The G37 automatic doesn't have many of these issues. However, it is the same transmission as in my wife's G25 and I find its shift programming problematic as it seems to hunt gears more than I would like, and the manual shifting is very slow.

jayhawk815

The G37 members are not alone in this assertion. You don't have to go far, just go to any other forum on acurazine and you'll find the same sentiments. Heck even Acura admits it.

sarge_in

OK, so after 2 more rounds of back-to-back driving and comparison between all 3 - the TL base, TL SHAWD and G37, I have at least narrowed it down to the TL.

Impressions didn't change a whole lot from prior tests. Based just on performance, G37 certainly scores better than TL base, but wasn't as different from SHAWD. The difference between them is stark esp on winding roads that I made sure to explore more this time - really gave an appreciation of what the G37 and the SHAWD offer over the TL base. But in the end, space, seat (I like TL much better as G37 is quite firm), interior feel, high-res screen, buttons etc pulled me over to the TL side. Also, I am not sure how to describe it, but the G37 engine felt somewhat 'coarse'?! The TL was very smooth.

To be fair, I enjoyed the G37 as well a lot. Esp the option to use it like a manual from the stick rather than paddle shifters was fun. If the objective was pure performance, G37 would still be contending against the SHAWD. I also like the NAV views that G37 offers a bit more.

Now it's down to TL base vs SHAWD. Like i said, this time round really showed the advantages SHAWD offers on winding roads. I have grown to like it - a lot. I still need to rationalize to myself why I would need it when my most driving is on straight streets - and so the only advantage is on cornering, freeway ramps, traction and during infrequent bad weather. I will explore old posts on the forum for more discussion of this that I am sure is out there. But I can see why so many people state that once they drove RWD/AWD, it is very difficult to go back to FWD.

shappy

Here is a post I made in another forum, where we were talking about the Audi Quattro vs Acura SH-AWD, that addresses this issue:

Quote:

If you know of any curvy country roads near Palm Beach County, please share (As in I personally wouldn't necessarily go for an Audi over an Acura, or vice versa, or either at all, for the AWD system in that climate).

I like to try to make lemonade from lemons as much as possible. No question that there are few good "driver's roads" around here. However, my daily drive includes several roundabouts



which I like to take at excessive, but responsible, speeds. The same goes for highway on/off ramps and cloverleafs. Even during more mundane driving I will take turns enthusiastically. So a good handing car is important to me, even more so than straight-line speed.


My whole point is that if you want to take advantage of the capabilities of your car, there are times and places where you can do so. It just depends on how much you enjoy doing that vs the cost of paying for that capability.

lji

I noticed the same "coarseness" at high rpms on the G37. The TL, meanwhile revs nicely without this "coarseness" all the way to the redline. And you definitely notice when v-tech kicks in, although much subdued than when vtech kicks in on say, a Civic SI.

I, too am not a fan of the way Acura has implemented sport shifting. This implementation may have its merits, albeit being different from what everyone's accustomed to. I agree that Nissan/Infiniti's NAV may have better graphics, but the implementation in Honda/Acura's is downright user friendly. It doesn't take long to pick up and run with it.

I drove both and the FWD TL didn't sway me much performance wise (it may have been because I drove it right after I drove the G37...lol), but the SH version in both AT and MT form were appealing and I ended up with the MT.

compewterbleu

Use the correct tool to complete the task properly. Or as others would prefer don't take a knife to a gun fight...the SH-AWD system by Acura is phenomenal. For my preference the overall built and quality of Infiniti still isn't quiet on par with Acura's fit and finish. I like to look at cars after they've been owned and on the road for a while...Acura's appear to have better wear and tear. RWD vs AWD there are trade offs...I'm always geeked when I slip behind the wheel of my ride and don't regret not getting the 370z Nissmo or G37X, now if the cash flow changes, I'd still like to pick one up

sarge_in

Damn, you guys are a convincing lot! LOL

While OC does not have roundabouts, I agree there are always ways to have fun if you want to.

lji - Yes, the TL NAV is very intuitive (as are the other controls) and I esp like the high-res screen. Makes a big diff when I am going to be looking at it every single time I drive the car, IMO.

compewterbleu - I have actually read about TL seats getting worn soon (esp the driver, of course). I just hope its not too bad.

winstrolvtec

OP, I noticed you test drove a 6MT G37, any interest in a 6MT TL? Only saying because the manual really helps in justifying the extra cost and lower mpg of the SH IMO. It also has it's own set of little tweaks and enhancements in addition to being slightly lighter and faster but OTOH, it is a little worse in gas mileage but 17/25 should not be a real issue from the 18/26 in the AT SH.

IMO the 6MT version is having it both ways. It gives up virtually nothing in acceleration even compared to a 6MT G37 and is the better handling vehicle with comparable tires. Same mileage too despite being larger, heavier, and having AWD. It is the same and arguably better in meeting the same overall performance objective and obviously it has the advantages of size, space, comfort, and just about everything else that you already prefer.

Much of that applies to the AT as well but it favors the 6MT especially. Understandably, a manual is not all that practical today but I am just throwing it out there.

jasonwdp10

Another thing to assist you in deciding between SHAWD vs Base is.. are you an aggressive driver? Do you like to stomp the gas pedal through the floor often?

The reason I ask this is.. I am one of those drivers. Not necessarily aggressive, but when i'm in a rush (or having fun) I tend to be a bit more aggressive with my pedal modulation.

In those situations, the Base will make screeching noises often as the front tires either slip or are slowed by the traction control, there's also torque steer that only shows itself during spirited driving. You will not notice much (if any) screeching with the SHAWD model, and it will feel more neutral through turns as it will "rotate" the car through. It was also pretty fun just hammering the throttle when making some turns as you will "power through" the turn.

Though when driving normally, at normal speeds, you won't notice a difference. You might even notice that the Base is slightly more "tossable" when you make tight turns because, while it doesn't actually handle better, it's much lighter, and you feel it when you're driving.

so basically:
Aggressive driver = SHAWD
Normal driver = Base

It will cost more in the long run (larger tires, 20% worse FE in my case, rear differential changes), not to mention the small possibility that something goes wrong with the SHAWD system. If you're an aggressive driver (like me), you may appreciate the SHAWD more.

As for the Tech pkg vs Advance pkg, I live in socal (abt 15 min from DTLA) and I know the ventilated seats would be very useful in socal weather. When I test drove the Advance models, i had them at full blast until it cooled down, then I turned them down to "low" because the fans were actually pretty noisy on the high or medium setting. I wouldn't say they cool much, they appeared to give you the feeling that you're sitting on a cool seat that hasn't been sat on yet (do you know what I mean?). It will also keep you cool and/or dry if you get back from the gym or something.

Let us know what you pick!

JM2010 SH-AWD

I agree with the suggestion above of considering the 6MT AWD (I believe you said earlier you were in fact thinking about the MT). It really adds to the fun factor of the SH-AWD system. And, I think Acura's EPA mileage ratings for this car are pretty conservative.

I don't baby my car; when I get on it, I get on it. But if I'm just driving to work or something like that, I try to follow sound MPG behavior. My MT is now showing a running average since new of 25.4 MPG in 50/50 urban-suburban/highway driving (the MID shows an average speed over that time of 35-39 depending on which side of the 50/50 split gets more time in a given week). Therefore, while your in-town MPG with the 6MT would likely be close to the EPA's 17 number, I think you can well exceed 25 mpg on the highway with the 6MT. Depending on your driving habits and the type of driving you do, an overall MPG in the range of 20-25 is what you should expect with the 6MT AWD.

Be sure to let us know which car you pick.

sarge_in

winstrolvtec, JM2010 - I am not really interested in the MT, and neither have I driven it. I was referring to the option that G37 has in its AT model to use the stick to change gears manually (there's a + and - position) rather than paddle shifters. MT is way more fun no doubt, but most times I don't want to deal with clutch etc - which is why I liked the G37 implementation for occasional fun. Good suggestion for others who may be considering it though!

jasonwdp10 - Agree with your approach. Currently, I am more aggressive than normal, but dont screech my tires (so not overly aggressive). That is probably in part due to not having a car up for the fun - Honda Odyssey and 1998 Nissan Altima - you get the idea!

A better question may be what I will be once I have this car?! I know my test drives have been much more aggressive than my 'regular' driving, but that is probably typical of most car buyers. I still expect to be more aggressive than I was with my older cars, which is why I am now leaning more towards the SHAWD than the FWD.

As for Advance, it certainly is useful and I like the BIS much more on TL than the equivalent one on Audi. But like my wife says, we have been doing fine for last 12 years in the area, so we will probably be fine going forward too. Or put another way, those $2200 can get me an excellent amp/pre-amp upgrade for my home theater that I have had my eyes on for some time.

04avalon

I am also in the same boat as the OP. by the end of winter i want to be driving a new car.I have test drove both the g37x as well as the tl-sh. The first time i pushed the button to start the car on the g37, i fell in love with the exhaust note. after driving the car a bit and getting it up past 6k RPMS the engine sounded a bit harsh or raspy.
When i test drove the tl-sh i was impressed with the acceleration and blown away by the feel when you v-tec kicks in. it felt like a whole different car.

The other car I test drove and also liked a lot was the maxima. the interior quality was on par with the g37.....actually looks like it was taken right out of the infiniti. the vq35 in the nissan sounded much better than the g37. the only thing that is holding me back from the maxima is the CVT transmission. I prefer an automatic but im not sure i could ever get used to the CVT and never shifting. I do have to say that the maxima was faster than the tl-sh until about 90mph where the cvt kills the power from the engine.

the maxima was also about 6,000 dollars cheaper than the tl-sh.

these are all things i have to weigh out before i purchase.