TriFeMan

OK, I will rephrase it. Does anybody know what the status of the 2012 TL production is?

Pseudomaniac

iTrader: (1)

Well that depends.

If your inquiry is sincere, I'd suggest calling them and asking:
By Phone: (800) 382-2238
Monday through Friday, 6:00am to 5:00pm Pacific Standard time a

If this is a thread flame starter, then:

As inversely proportioned to the cross-vertices average per model daily output of (insert Audi, BMW, Infiniti, Lexus) brand production of their (A4, 3.35, G37, IS350) model and how it's (more efficient, less efficient) than the aforementioned manufacturer which (enables, prevents) them to bring a (superior, inferior) product to market?

Pete2010

I don't know exactly if they are up to full production. While the cars are built in Ohio, they obviously depend on parts from Japan.

I helped a friend buy a Honda a few weeks ago, and at a few dealers, I got the whole "well, supplies are down due to the tsunami". Which is code for, we're not going to deal on the car you want.

For what it's worth, i got that at Subaru and Infiniti as well as Honda/Acura.

BT9

A local dealer told me a few days ago that they currently have about half the inventory they would normally expect, and that's part of the reason for their lack of AWD TL's (at this dealership, FWD TL's outsell AWD about 10:1). When I asked when he expected it to be back to normal all he could say is hopefully before the end of the year. I take that to mean it's more likely in Q4, since I would think (if it were to get back to normal within a month or two) they'd have that level of short-term visibility.

TriFeMan

I saw somewhere in the forum that they thought they hoped to be back up to 100% by sometime in August. I was just wondering if they are on track for that or if it has slipped. I am hoping to order a FWD Advance but just not seeing many of them anywhere.

acurator99

Dude it don't matter cause even with production cut down to half due the crisis in Japan ... the supply is still more than twice the demand.

Stew4HD

That is BS! If that were the case, then you would not have people looking high and low for SH-AWD Advanced models. maybe there is plenty of FWDs around to be had but that does not match your statement.

JM2010 SH-AWD

There is clearly low inventory. Anyone posting to the contrary is just not aware of the facts.

My dealer normally carries around 70 TLs. Right now they have 30, including 4 advance models (two FWDs and two AWDs). There are not a lot out there, and at least until now, the dealers have been commanding pretty high prices for them. True Car says there is very little price flexibility for the 2012 TL right now.

And don't even think about MT TLs. Autotrader says there is exactly one of those within 300 miles of where I live.

saturno_v

There are BS and there are facts...I prefer dealing with facts, they are more interesting.....

These are the statistics for Midsize Luxury Car sales (include sales and leases) in America for February 2011, March 2011, so pre MY 2012 restyling and pre-tsunami when half of Japan went under water and 2010 End of the year sales....after the Japan tragedy the Japanese brands sales plunged catastrophically within 2 months...Lexus alone lost 4% market share....

The so much vaunted Audi drop off the radar screen past the small A4 and the entry level Q5 SUV....

The only real gangbuster in the segment were and are the BMW 5 Series and the MB E Class which have more engine choices and the E has also a Wagon version.

Tied with the TL is the granma favorite, the conservatively styled and competitively priced Lexus ES.

So being #3 or #4 out of 17 models does not seem a failure to me........yes Acura sold more 3th gen but the economy was in a a different shape back then, the car grew in size which probably turned some people off, and the price went up too moving the car upmarket which probably also cut off some "stretch your last dollar in monthly car payment" marginal buyer .....still it is one of the top selling midsize luxury sedan out there.....out of these numbers I would call it a success...

acurator99

The magic word is demand. SH-AWDs are not made of gold and are not designed using alien technology. If there is sufficient demand then Acura does not have any issues manufacturing more SH-AWDs. Unfortunately the people looking high and low for SH-AWD Advanced models are very few. Also the demand is not uniform through out the nation. There is only one reason why there would be more FWDs in the dealer's lot as opposed to SH-AWDs. Again the magic word is demand.

Edward'TLS

Of course demands are not uniform throughout the nations. It is common to all auto makers, not just Honda/Acura.

Why on earth does someone want to buy the costier, heavier, and slower AWD vehicles where it doesn't rain or see no snow all year round ? On the other hand, AWD vehicles are in huge demand in regions where snow is plentiful during the long winter months.

SeismicGuy

In our case (sunny SoCal) and with the intent of trying to stay within a set budget, I could not see any reason for going for the All Wheel Drive Model. Sure when you read the various magazines that road test vehicles, AWD models predictably handle better than FWD or RWD vehicles through curvies and tricky roads. Let's see--the last time I needed that level of improved handling in my day-to-day driving was. . . .NEVER!

I understand it is prestigious to have a few more letters on the trunk to show that you went for the "performance" model, but I found no compelling reason to opt for a few $thousand more to get something for which we would really have no need.

Glashub

I drove a FWD (coming from an 2005 TL) and tossed it around some corners after some regular driving. Then took an AWD and did the same. No comparison imo. The AWD is planted on magnets. The driving experience is far better imo in the AWD. So I bought it. On weekends I take it through Malibu and have some quasi-formula car fun. On the freeways with all of the ruts and bumps in LA I never feel like the car could be lost. I consider it a dramatic improvement over FWD. I'll never own an FWD again.

Plus in 2010....the AWD drive just looked so much cooler to me.

That's just me and to each his/her own.

saturno_v

I agree

I drove the FWD TL once and it drives very very nice, probably you cannot ask for more in a large FWD sport sedan and actually I would prefer it over a RWD sedan (for example I would still take the standard FWD TL over the BMW 528i)....but the level of performance of the SH-AWD is just amazing....

Bo_Darville

how does it compare to the other two cars in your garage?

if shopping for a '12 tl would 3-4 mpg better for fwd factor into your decision?

winstrolvtec

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a FWD vehicle, the market is rather large for a FWD luxury mid size sedan so there are lots of people who don't really need AWD or drive their car in any manner that would make them appreciate it any better on a regular basis.

The FWD TL and SH are very contrasting trims despite being the same car. Between the two, you choose one over the other for opposing reasons, for the most part. It's a matter of preference really and while the SH might not be for everyone, I still think it's a tremendous deal for another $3550 considering what it adds and what these types of things cost when added to other brands' vehicles, regardless of anyone's position on it.

I have seen anywhere from $8k-$12k with most other luxury brands to add only the bigger engine, AWD, torque vectoring differential (if it's even available in the first place), sports package, and larger rims. I know there are many who don't really care for that but there should be no questioning the value proposition when it comes to the SH and what it offers for the additional cost.

saturno_v

It handles impressively even compared to my wife's STI which is a real demon in the twisties....

The Transam is just a straight line tool...

When I got my TL, I wanted the spirited driving of the SH-AWD, I never considered the FWD version in the first place...I do not care about a bit higher fuel consumption...I drive a 40K+ car, so plus or minus 1 or 2 MPG is not that big of a factor for me....frankly I still don't know exactly the average mileage consumption of my TL...I just can tell you that is not that different from my previous 6 speed manual Nissan Maxima SE (a much lighter car)...so good enough for me...

Glashub

Mr Marco

FYI

2012 Projected sales for Acura is 133,000 units. That is less than 1% of the market.

C&D Sept 2011

Bo_Darville

yes, but what about plus or minus 4 mpg? that's what i mean, the '12 made the difference btwn the two even greater

depending upon its condition, mecum auto auctions might consider your straight line tool the most expensive ride you own

KES

I did the math on the SH and FWD.

15,000 divided by 21 MPG =715 gallons a year.
15,000 divided by 18 MPG (3 less) is 835 gallons.
835 less 715 is 120 gallons at $4.5 is $540 per year or $10.38 a week.

Stew4HD

IMO, if gas saving/economizing is that high of a priority, then a Civic or similar model would be in order.

I gladly pay the extra for the thrill of driving the SH-AWD!

Bo_Darville

if performance is that high of a priority, then get a real performance car, not a 2 ton overweight poser -- there are numerous choices that will drive circles around your ride. and its a $40K car -- you can quit posting like you're driving some high-end supercar. believe me, no one is impressed, especially since you are still living with your parents

saturno_v

In the midsize luxury sedan class ~300 HP there is nothing much better...actually none....some people need and want space, comfort and performance...
...and I drove and I own performance cars...

Again, not in the 300 HP midsize sedan class...if you care to mention it....

Ruby

Its true everyone makes it seem like the SHAWD is some crazy performance monster similar to BMW's M series when its not. Okay sweet its torque vectoring AWD that still doesn't change the fact that its a heavy ass luxury sedan. If your happy good for you, If your happy saving 600 bucks a year on gas with the FWD model good for you. But 90% of people don't drive their TL to the limit where the SHAWD would be needed anyway. But when people try to rub it in everyone's face that its something its not is something else.

Stew4HD

Dude, go blow your nasty smoke elsewhere, I mean really... Your post is basically nothing more that a silly ass troll remark. You bring your stench to an Acura TL forum to blast those of us that feel we have a great value, great car (which we do and you have done nothign to counter that).. etc.. I could make this a real nasty reply but why stoop to your level of crap... take it elsewhere...

BTW, I beg to differ, plenty are impressed with the TL as well as the SH-AWD model. And where did I claim to drive a supercar? Hmmm... *face-slap*

Your childish remark about me living with my parents.. again, troll crap... Do you really have to stoop to that level? I guess so.. you need to elevate yourself somehow...

saturno_v

What is the sense of this post?? Nobody that bought a TL SH-AWD thought that was getting a some sort of Lamborghini or an M3......sorry but your comment is frankly silly.....but in its category the TL SH-AWD is truly an impressive handling car....you do not need to drive it to the limit to appreciate the difference in driving from the FWD version...and it is not only the SH-AWD system mind you....more power and fatter torque curve and a sportier more refined suspension setup compared to the standard TL...

This is my first Acura and I got spoecifically sold on the SH-AWD capabilities which are well worth, in my opinion, the extra 2 or 3 MPG fuel consumption...

I cross shopped the TL when I got my Maxima in the past and at that time I did not think it was worth the premium price compared to my fully loaded Maxima...I think the 4G increased its value proposition....it is a better car in every aspect than any previous generation...

Stew4HD

Exactly! We don't claim 0-60 superiority nor top end speed... but this car holds it's own against every car in it's class fairly well (depending on the way the class is defined).

Wonder what is going on with all the hate? Maybe it's the heat and the market crashing causing this....?? I dunno

Ruby

And as I said before, good for you. If its worth it to you great.. I'm just saying that 90% of people out there unless they live up North don't need AWD. They'd rather save the couple grand and get better MPG. My whole argument is I've driven both and to me the difference isn't all that great. Not trying to start an argument here, I'm done.

winstrolvtec

It's not really about the amount of bottomline capabilities alone that makes the SH appreciated, it's about the amount of overall performance and capabilities for what the vehicle is. In this case, a heavy ass luxury car.

Unfortunately the SH's capabilities are vastly underrated. I don't see the system, as well as Honda's engineering, getting the full credit it deserves until the setup makes it's way into a smaller, lighter, better balanced package (perhaps with a few other minor teaks as well). It's been proven several times that SH is a key component that allows this car to outlap or essentially outhandle everything in it's competitive set, that includes several smaller, lighter, RWD compacts. For what it's worth, and based on what we have already seen, it likely would take an M3 to outhandle an SH (with comparable tires) and an M5 would probably only rival it in this area.

That is amazing considering it's size, weight, FWD based chassis and how unbalanced the weight distribution is and throw in cost for good measure. I don't see anyone else pulling that off and it highly contributes to the cost effective nature of the company and the product. That's a big part of why one often pays more for a comparable product and still doesn't get better results or marginal ones at best for a disproportionate amount of more money. If other brands could engineer cars like this on a FWD chassis and with NA engines they probably would because it is a business at the end of the day.

As far as everything else goes, I don't disagree. Straightline acceleration is nothing special, although the 6MT does rival many smaller, lighter, more powerful cars and the AT is highly competitive against other mid size luxury sedans also with AWD.

Braking results are on par or better than anything it's been tested against, although they do feel a little light in most cases and you do need to lay into them to get the most out of them, but at the same time they are not overly grippy especially when you don't need them to be. I suspect it's a more conservative pedal and fluid calibration.

The overall driving feel is also nothing special as far as having the sportiest aspirations and most engaging experience in mind but otherwise, it stikes a nice balance IMO. I know I don't want a soft and disconnected driving experience all the time but I also don't want the car to always feel on edge or feel too sporty when I don't want or need it to be. It also happens to be one of the lighter, sportier mid size sedans with AWD, whatever that is worth.

As far as comparing the SH and FWD, there is no right or wrong answer. It's simply a choice based on needs and preferences, much like you are saying. Again, they are very contrasting so many of our opinions will clash but I don't see why we can't compre them without taking anything away from either.

Bo_Darville

you need to redo the math based upon real-world driving

KES

Umm my point here was ……
if there is a 3 MPG difference between the FWD and SH-AWD and I used the low end mileage (i.e. city driving) it provides a higher end estimate of how many more gallons the SH- AWD will consume in a year and an estimated cost difference. If that difference means enough to you financially then you should not consider the SH-AWD.

The original poster asked if a 3-4 MPG would figure into a buying decision. At an estimated annual increased cost of $540 for gas it does not impact MY decision.

Furthermore I have no expectations of getting 28.4 MPG based on how, when and where I drive.

Glashub

lol Try 13.5 to 15.5 in LA with the air on, one passenger. It's worse than the 05 TL I traded in.

Stew4HD

My SH-AWD is showing 23.2 MPG as an average, which is based on over aq month of driving. Most of my miles is highway @ 70 mph @ 30 miles each way. I got 26-27 MPG on th elong trip I took the car on. All with AC on.

In my '08 3.2 TL base, I was getting about 24-25 MPG. I was getting 32 MPG on the open road

Glashub

Well to be fair, I don't drive the freeway and I am always stopping and going not only because of traffic but because of the number of craters, ridges of broken pavement and gulleys in LA roads. Tis the trouble with living in a bankrupt state located on fault lines.

SeismicGuy

Since the discussion has wandered into looking at mpg, one of the things that has consistently amazed me about my wife's 2000TL is the rock solid 18-20mpg we always get even under a decent amount of city street driving (in the Los Angeles area). She goes about 5 miles each way to work on weekdays and then on the weekend we do more local driving with occasional freeway trips. No matter what (even with a/c on) it ends up at 18-20mpg. On those times were we do a long freeway trip (like to San Diego or Santa Barbara) the mpg is 28-30.

I think this is pretty impressive given the fact that these are relatively large/heavy 4 door sedans with 6 cylinder engines.