Should I ???

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Old 03-11-2013, 09:18 AM
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Should I ???

Hey fellow TL lovers, here but been lurking for some time now. I have a dilemma and need some feedback:

I have an '09 shawd non tech w/ 24.5k miles in clean condition and personally near excellent condition. I'm thinking about pulling the trigger on '13 w/ the manual tranny, black on black. I currently owe 19k and they're giving me 20.5k for my '09 and they're selling the '13 for 40k. I think I could knock another 500 or 1k off though. I pay 500 out my pocket. This will be a lease to own most likely as I feel I'll be throwing money away on a lease IMO. I always wanted a manual w/ awd and had the opportunity to test drive the beast over the weekend. SHE RIPS!!! I'm in love.

I also heard Acura will introduce the 5th gen in June of this year w/ the TLX badge. So I don't know whether to wait but I don't like the direction Acura is going with their hidden exhausts now and I'm not sure if the TLX will even come w/ a manual tranny. I'm also considering Audi S5, albeit a used one.

What should I do? Thoughts? Thanks in advance!
Old 03-11-2013, 09:41 AM
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The tlx looks to be on the same chassis as the new accord. But I also heard that a coupe tlx might be in be works. I would prob wait since ur current ride is near perfect. You could always find a Clean 2013 if the new tlx doesn't appeal to you.
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:48 AM
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Based on the financials that your post stated, I don't think you should make the move. I would concentrate on getting that '09 paid or at least significantly reducing the debt on a 4 year old car. By getting the new car, all you're doing is prolonging the debt load for yourself. Just my 2 cents worth.
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by 09tl3.7
The tlx looks to be on the same chassis as the new accord. But I also heard that a coupe tlx might be in be works. I would prob wait since ur current ride is near perfect. You could always find a Clean 2013 if the new tlx doesn't appeal to you.

While I don't doubt he'll be able to find a 13' in 2014, I don't he'll be able to readily find a MT one.
Old 03-11-2013, 10:14 AM
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I would be shocked if the TLX was released this year. As much as I want one I don't think we will see it for 12 months. There has not been a single spy shot of one yet nor a peep from Acura and everyone that thinks they know someone with information seems to be saying same thing, it will be shown later this year and then released early 2014 as a 2015 model. I have been so on the fence right now that I am about to pull the trigger on a 13 Accord Touring and dive that for 10-12 months until I know what is up with the TLX then give the Accord to the gf at that time. That buys me the big option to wait and see the TLX, the 14 Genesis and the 14 Q70 (M37) while I save a few bucks and not have to worry about what to do when my lease is up in a few months. Also will give the TLX a few months to be out so I can get a decent price on it.
Old 03-11-2013, 10:37 AM
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Accord touring or TL awd/adv? I thought you were basically sold on the 13' TL?
Old 03-11-2013, 11:47 AM
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This^
Old 03-11-2013, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by TeamAcura
Hey fellow TL lovers, here but been lurking for some time now. I have a dilemma and need some feedback:

I have an '09 shawd non tech w/ 24.5k miles in clean condition and personally near excellent condition. I'm thinking about pulling the trigger on '13 w/ the manual tranny, black on black. I currently owe 19k and they're giving me 20.5k for my '09 and they're selling the '13 for 40k. I think I could knock another 500 or 1k off though. I pay 500 out my pocket. This will be a lease to own most likely as I feel I'll be throwing money away on a lease IMO. I always wanted a manual w/ awd and had the opportunity to test drive the beast over the weekend. SHE RIPS!!! I'm in love.

I also heard Acura will introduce the 5th gen in June of this year w/ the TLX badge. So I don't know whether to wait but I don't like the direction Acura is going with their hidden exhausts now and I'm not sure if the TLX will even come w/ a manual tranny. I'm also considering Audi S5, albeit a used one.

What should I do? Thoughts? Thanks in advance!
^^Who did you hear this from? I mean it would be great if the TLX was introduced in June but as Keith L mentioned and I agree I think it’s highly unlikely.

At this point I would even be happy if Acura just released info and photos by June to end all the speculation.
Old 03-11-2013, 11:53 AM
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if they were introducing it june of this year.. we would know about it by now.
Old 03-11-2013, 12:14 PM
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I heard from the dealer. Take it with a grain of salt. I would not be surprised if they introduce it in June/July though and it would start going on sale this fall. This also gives the new RLX its time to shine until the new TL/TLX is introduced. All signs lead to it: extended $1,500 cash incentive and they knock out 4k off MSRP on all new '13 TLs only. A fully loaded TL for 40k is bargain compared to its competitors. To me, that means they are trying to unload their current inventory to make room for the '14. Of course what I'm saying is just my own theory.
Old 03-11-2013, 05:17 PM
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Still don't see it coming this year, but we will see. The discounts are due to crappy sales. They need to sell some cars to keep the line loving and people employed. Also they have to compete with the G37 as it is getting blown out so cheap if Acura did not do these discounts they would not be selling anything.
Old 03-11-2013, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by a32tl
Based on the financials that your post stated, I don't think you should make the move. I would concentrate on getting that '09 paid or at least significantly reducing the debt on a 4 year old car. By getting the new car, all you're doing is prolonging the debt load for yourself. Just my 2 cents worth.
I agree. If you look at what you've already paid on your 2009 and what you will pay on the 2013, that will be a lot of money for your car needs!
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Old 03-11-2013, 07:18 PM
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I appreciate the feedback fellas. I'm really tempted though since I will only be paying $59 more on top of my monthly payment with $500 out of pocket. I'm happy with my ride now but also know I'd be interested in a new car later down the road. I have some time to think about it but keep the comments coming please! It will help me out a lot in my decision.
Old 03-11-2013, 09:10 PM
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TeamAcura...As KeithL and Potmilkz have stated, I am also on the camp that says Acura will not release the TLX until next spring at the earliest. We would have seen hidden pics, camo shots etc....I would say that if I were you, wait until we start seeing some spy pics of the TLX (or prototype) and make an informed decision then. Chances are, you will be able to put your hand on a remaining 2013 model or possibly a 2014 with great deal as the TLX will be introduced as a 2015 model (to hit the showroom in the spring of 2014)....My best guess.
Old 03-12-2013, 12:39 AM
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I would keep the 09 . I think your car is value more than what they are offering you , your car is clean with low mileage no need to start a new loan or lease to pay $59 more.
Old 03-12-2013, 06:45 AM
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Old 03-12-2013, 09:05 AM
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I would agree with most everyone that a June release this year of a 5g TLX is highly unlikely. I could perhaps see October (my wishes due to lease expiration) but most likely late Spring of 2014. To the OP, not sure what your other financial obligations are but if you really want and can afford the car go for it. To move from your current vehicle to aw one with Tech package is a significant improvement.
Old 03-12-2013, 01:21 PM
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Hey guys, after some thought I've decided to stay with the '09. I've got positive equity and in no rush to get a new one. Thanks everyone for the comments. It played a big part in my decision. That and the insurance was an extra 800 a year along with extra 700 a year on payments was enough to hold up on the trade. It wasn't worth it for me; not right now anyway.

And I still think they will reveal the new TLX this summer!
Old 03-12-2013, 02:34 PM
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^^ They may reveal it, but revealing and releasing are two different things
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Old 03-12-2013, 11:58 PM
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From financial stand pont my answer would be "NO"... if you have a good income and sleep well, then go for it...
Old 03-13-2013, 05:33 AM
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Originally Posted by TeamAcura
I appreciate the feedback fellas. I'm really tempted though since I will only be paying $59 more on top of my monthly payment with $500 out of pocket. I'm happy with my ride now but also know I'd be interested in a new car later down the road. I have some time to think about it but keep the comments coming please! It will help me out a lot in my decision.
Good move. I know the itch and temptation all too well. I am itching so bad for anew ride, but even with the 4G discounts I feel when the 5G comes out next year I will be kicking myself. I have been all over the map lately since my lease is up soon, but think (at least as of today) that I am going to get a 13 Accord Touring for now and next spring the gf will take it and I will buy something next year when the choices will be great. In the next 9-12 months we should see the 5G TLX, new Genesis, hopefully MMC M37/Q70, and the new Q50 that are all on my short list. The only thing that may ti[ me know is if the Infiniti dealer can locate the M37 Sport Tech I have been wanting, if they find that before I get the Accord then I may re-up with Infiniti again.
Old 03-13-2013, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by weather
^^ They may reveal it, but revealing and releasing are two different things
LOL yes that's true and that's why I said we will see the 5g in the showroom floors by fall of this year. They are just building up the hype since they know the TL is their bread and butter.
Old 03-19-2013, 09:18 AM
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Well guys, I ended up trading up my '09 in for a '13 6MT in BWP (the color I always wanted). I know I went against what most of you advised but this dealer gave me an offer I couldn't refuse. After it's all said and done they sold it to me for $37.5K. I really thought hard about waiting for the TL(X) but I know I wouldn't buy it right away and there's too much uncertainy as far as looks, transmission, price, etc. Also, I was not underwater and they gave me $3K more than what I owe. There were no intentions of me keeping my '09 for that long anyhow and figure now is best time to trade up. I'm planning on keeping her for a long time as well. I'm leaving work early tommorrow to pick it up. I was supposed to pick it up today but the weather is shitty and I don't wanna drive my new baby in this weather.
Old 03-19-2013, 10:00 AM
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Sounds like your the perfect candidate for a lease, too many people think its throwing money away... but if you like to have a new car every 2-4 years its a waste to buy the vehicle.

Lets assume a sale price of 41k all in.

Buying the car gives you a $755 monthly payment @ a 3.9 APR

Lets say you lease the same vehicle and get a agressive deal. - which I was just quoted @550 per month

3 years go buy and you want a new car, you would have a payoff of about $17500.
assuming the dealer is going to give $21000, I just walked away with $3500

my total of payments on the loan was $27,180 minus the 3500 I got back that puts me at 23,680

my total of payments on the lease was $19,800

Thats means I lost almost 4k by buying the vehicle.

Its very hard to beat an agressive lease if you want a new car every 2-4 years.
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Old 03-19-2013, 10:15 AM
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dturboman, I'm thinking the same thing LOL. The smart move is to buy it out after the lease. This way you will not incur any additional charges with the wear and tear of the vehicle over the duration of the term. Also, chances are you will be right at or above the sale price in the used car market. And you could always trade up and it's almost certain you will have positive equity in the vehicle. If your in the market for a new upscale/luxury car, leasing is the way to go IMO unless you're rich then money wouldn't be in issue.

Also, these dealers always start high with the lease. I'm way too familiar with that 500ish a month. Lowested I was quoted was 430 a month for 12k miles a year, 36 months. I always tell myself, don't be scared to tell them the price you want or I walk out and keep shopping. I went thru 4 dealers to get within my price range.

Last edited by TeamAcura; 03-19-2013 at 10:21 AM.
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Old 03-19-2013, 10:18 AM
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Plus you cant beat Acura's lease turn in, they give you 7500 miles allowable in overage and $1500 in damage credit.
Old 03-19-2013, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by dturboman
Sounds like your the perfect candidate for a lease, too many people think its throwing money away... but if you like to have a new car every 2-4 years its a waste to buy the vehicle.

Lets assume a sale price of 41k all in.

Buying the car gives you a $755 monthly payment @ a 3.9 APR

Lets say you lease the same vehicle and get a agressive deal. - which I was just quoted @550 per month

3 years go buy and you want a new car, you would have a payoff of about $17500.
assuming the dealer is going to give $21000, I just walked away with $3500

my total of payments on the loan was $27,180 minus the 3500 I got back that puts me at 23,680

my total of payments on the lease was $19,800

Thats means I lost almost 4k by buying the vehicle.

Its very hard to beat an agressive lease if you want a new car every 2-4 years.
I'm not sure your numbers make sense; here is what I see running through numbers:

LOAN
--------------
Purchase all-in: $41k
Loan Rate: 1.74% (Pen Fed, for instance), 60mo - $714/mo
3 years, trade in value (using Edmunds TMV for a 2010 SH-AWD): $23,000
3 years, payoff: $16139
$23,000-$16139 = $6861
Payments for 36 months: $714*36 = $25704
Total cost, 3 years: $25704-$6861 = $18843

LEASE:
------------
Using your $550/mo, that means $19800

So leasing cost was ~$1k more than buying, all said.


All that said, if you know you are going to buy / lease another car in 3 years, leasing may still be preferable for you, as it is a bit more deterministic, but I wouldn't say it would necessarily be cheaper.

Of course, if you are in one of the few states (e.g. MI) that charges sales tax on the whole vehicle purchase price, not the net purchase price sans trade-in, then that would be a negative for purchasing.
Old 03-19-2013, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by zoink
I'm not sure your numbers make sense; here is what I see running through numbers:

LOAN
--------------
Purchase all-in: $41k
Loan Rate: 1.74% (Pen Fed, for instance), 60mo - $714/mo
3 years, trade in value (using Edmunds TMV for a 2010 SH-AWD): $23,000
3 years, payoff: $16139
$23,000-$16139 = $6861
Payments for 36 months: $714*36 = $25704
Total cost, 3 years: $25704-$6861 = $18843

LEASE:
------------
Using your $550/mo, that means $19800

So leasing cost was ~$1k more than buying, all said.


All that said, if you know you are going to buy / lease another car in 3 years, leasing may still be preferable for you, as it is a bit more deterministic, but I wouldn't say it would necessarily be cheaper.

Of course, if you are in one of the few states (e.g. MI) that charges sales tax on the whole vehicle purchase price, not the net purchase price sans trade-in, then that would be a negative for purchasing.
not sure where you're getting a trade in that high, Edmunds shows the following
http://www.edmunds.com/acura/tl/2010...e-results.html

2010 TH Sh tech 36k, clean condition.

True Market Value®
Trade-in Dealer Retail
$21,850 $24,825

private party is 23,113

In my region finding a 1.74 rate for most will not happen, My best local CU will run a 2.99 -3.99

Also the leases have gotten even more agressive, I've seen a few Sub 500 payments with nothing out of pocket on SH tech with top tier credit.
That alone chops nearly 2k off your total investment
Old 03-19-2013, 02:55 PM
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Also that 41k price all is based on incentives that state "Must finance through Acura Financial Services." Sure you can go to another bank, but dont count on getting those same incentives.
Old 03-19-2013, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by dturboman
not sure where you're getting a trade in that high, Edmunds shows the following
http://www.edmunds.com/acura/tl/2010...e-results.html

2010 TH Sh tech 36k, clean condition.

True Market Value®
Trade-in Dealer Retail
$21,850 $24,825

private party is 23,113

In my region finding a 1.74 rate for most will not happen, My best local CU will run a 2.99 -3.99

Also the leases have gotten even more agressive, I've seen a few Sub 500 payments with nothing out of pocket on SH tech with top tier credit.
That alone chops nearly 2k off your total investment
You did not select the SH-AWD. You ran the numbers on a base FWD car. Run the numbers on the SH-AWD, and it is $23k. If you select the manual transmission, it is $25k. There is a drop-down box for the various trim levels.

And the Pen Fed is an internet based credit union, and open to anyone ($15 donation required). But even at 2.99-3.99, it still works out better - especially w/the manual + tech.

So, for the manual transmission, it is actually closer to a $3k positive on the buy side, slightly less for a loan at 2.99-3.99%.
Old 03-19-2013, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by dturboman
Also that 41k price all is based on incentives that state "Must finance through Acura Financial Services." Sure you can go to another bank, but dont count on getting those same incentives.
So that means if you want to go with Pen feb and miss the owner loyalty cash or conquest cash, and any other incentives that requires you to use AFS... you would need the dealer to discount the car $6000 without using those OEM supplies incentives.

That would be one hell of a discount without the dealer using any supplied insinuative programs

44080 sicker
6000 discount
add back in 2865.60 in sales tax and DMV fees based on Philly area.

40945.60 total price.
Old 03-19-2013, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by TeamAcura
Well guys, I ended up trading up my '09 in for a '13 6MT in BWP (the color I always wanted). I know I went against what most of you advised but this dealer gave me an offer I couldn't refuse. After it's all said and done they sold it to me for $37.5K. I really thought hard about waiting for the TL(X) but I know I wouldn't buy it right away and there's too much uncertainy as far as looks, transmission, price, etc. Also, I was not underwater and they gave me $3K more than what I owe. There were no intentions of me keeping my '09 for that long anyhow and figure now is best time to trade up. I'm planning on keeping her for a long time as well. I'm leaving work early tommorrow to pick it up. I was supposed to pick it up today but the weather is shitty and I don't wanna drive my new baby in this weather.

I would have also waited if the weather was crappy. Congrats with the new TL.
Old 03-19-2013, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by zoink
You did not select the SH-AWD. You ran the numbers on a base FWD car. Run the numbers on the SH-AWD, and it is $23k. If you select the manual transmission, it is $25k. There is a drop-down box for the various trim levels.

And the Pen Fed is an internet based credit union, and open to anyone ($15 donation required). But even at 2.99-3.99, it still works out better - especially w/the manual + tech.

So, for the manual transmission, it is actually closer to a $3k positive on the buy side, slightly less for a loan at 2.99-3.99%.
This is all based on 6at not manual, most dealers by me dont want the manual they aren't very popular with the owner demographic in Bucks county,pa

if you use anything other than AFS your going to miss out on 1500 owner loyalty/conquest cash

which means your paying closer to 43000

@
1.74 - 748 per month - total of payments 26,928
2.99 - 772 per month - total of payments 27,791
3.99 - 791 per month - total of payments 28,476

So even if you were to go with Pen fed @ 1.74 I would have a 16,200 pay off in 3 years, dealer gives me 23k I walk away with 6800 bucks

my total investment was 20128 @ 1.74
@2.9 it was 20,991
@3.9 it was 21,676

If i went with the original lease offer I dropped 19,800 bucks.
if I went with a more agressive lease @ 500 per month which seems to whats popping up now, I've spent 18000.

The best case would be to take it through AFS and refi to a 1.74 a few months down the road, but you're talking total savings over the lease of nearly nothing.

Not to mention the fact of the assume trade in price may drop substantially, its a risk.
Old 03-19-2013, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by JT4
I would have also waited if the weather was crappy. Congrats with the new TL.
Does you dealer do free washings for life? take it there each week lol.
Old 03-19-2013, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by TeamAcura
Hey guys, after some thought I've decided to stay with the '09. I've got positive equity and in no rush to get a new one.
Fast forward one week...

Originally Posted by TeamAcura
Well guys, I ended up trading up my '09 in for a '13 6MT in BWP (the color I always wanted). I know I went against what most of you advised but this dealer gave me an offer I couldn't refuse.... There were no intentions of me keeping my '09 for that long anyhow and figure now is best time to trade up.
Ouch...that made my neck hurt.

Glad you came to a decision you're happy with. If it'd been me, I'd have agonized over it for the next two months. I've really got to work on that.
Old 03-19-2013, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by sockpuppet
Fast forward one week...



Ouch...that made my neck hurt.

Glad you came to a decision you're happy with. If it'd been me, I'd have agonized over it for the next two months. I've really got to work on that.
LOL! I was ready to move on but I didn't have anything going on that weekend and was just toying with the idea if it was within my price range I will do the trade. Honestly didn't think it would happen considering what I wanted to pay a month but it did! I kept on thinking about it constantly. It was rough man. LMAO!
Old 03-19-2013, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by dturboman
This is all based on 6at not manual, most dealers by me dont want the manual they aren't very popular with the owner demographic in Bucks county,pa

if you use anything other than AFS your going to miss out on 1500 owner loyalty/conquest cash

which means your paying closer to 43000

@
1.74 - 748 per month - total of payments 26,928
2.99 - 772 per month - total of payments 27,791
3.99 - 791 per month - total of payments 28,476

So even if you were to go with Pen fed @ 1.74 I would have a 16,200 pay off in 3 years, dealer gives me 23k I walk away with 6800 bucks

my total investment was 20128 @ 1.74
@2.9 it was 20,991
@3.9 it was 21,676

If i went with the original lease offer I dropped 19,800 bucks.
if I went with a more agressive lease @ 500 per month which seems to whats popping up now, I've spent 18000.

The best case would be to take it through AFS and refi to a 1.74 a few months down the road, but you're talking total savings over the lease of nearly nothing.

Not to mention the fact of the assume trade in price may drop substantially, its a risk.

OK, you are right, if the $41k is contingent on financing through AFS, then that does change some things. However, If you are using higher interest rates, let's just assume then you are going through AFS, and you get the price you used in your other comparisons.

Let's assume 4%, $41k all-in, using AFS. Why are you now increasing the price to $43k? Are there no financing options for 4% or less in your $41k deal?

Let's look at 4%, 3%, and 2%:

LOAN:
------------
$41k, 4% for 60mo
$755/mo payment, over 36 months = $27,180 in payments
Payoff at 36 months, standard amortization: $16690
$23k trade in for 6AT SH-AWD.
$23,000 - $16,690 = $6310
$27180 - $6310 = $20870

$41k, 3% for 60 months
$737/mo payment, over 36 months = $26532
Payoff at 36 months, standard amortization: $16,447
$23k trade in for 6AT SH-AWD
$23,000 - $16,447 = $6553
$26,532 - $6553 = $19,979

$41k, 2% for 60 months
$719/mo payment, over 36 months = $25884
Payoff at 36 months, standard amortization: $16,203
$23k trade in for 6AT SH-AWD
$23,000 - $16,203 = $6797
$25,884 - $6797 = $19,087

So, these are about the same as the lease rates (which makes sense, in that for a lease over 3 years you should theoretically be paying for just financing + depreciation).

So, lease may be better in certain cases (especially in some states like MI), if you are going new in 3 years. But it will most likely not be the $4k benefit you originally mentioned - and with a decent loan rate (2% or less), you will likely come out ahead with purchasing.




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