S2000 Driver

100% correct.

Or if you're really cheap -- I mean financially conservative -- own it for at least 10 years.

KeithL

Problem with leasing is doing a lease with 18-20K miles is too cost prohibitive. I do at least 17K a year.

Legend2TL

, We owned a 1986 Integra for 18 years, so I must be REALLY CHEAP (my wife would agree to that )!

Stash

For real....I would love to be a car swapper on leases, but 10k a year???? Who are they kidding?

KeithL

Damn dealer, making it hard for me to pass up a SH-AWD he is offering me SH-AWD Tech for $39K that is $572 under invoice and I beleive includes cargo mat and splash guards. Hmm, maybe I can tolerate it at that price ;-)

PetesTL

Keith, even though price is important, it shouldn't be the main factor in making your decision about whether or not to buy the TL. If you're just lukewarm about the 4G now, it won't get much better 6 months from now......only get the TL if you really really like the car........don't let anybody else, including the dealer, influence your decision......otherwise, you'll buy the car and in a few months, hate yourself for rushing in, and will start looking ways to get rid of it and get a G37 instead.

SSFTSX

You should not listen to such finanical professional. We are in low interest deflationary environment for past decade.
In Six years you will need two sets of tires and will be out of warrant. After warranty period and more 5 years old. Trade value goes down very rapidly down. Dealer cant sell them as CPO and Bank wont finance them for prospective buyers as u will be out of 60K mileage which big banks require.
Best lease is 48 months. Near to warranty period and car model change. some Auto firms have loyalty credit. with trade in you practically washes the excess milege on lease.
Car is just like a cellular phone with each new contract you should upgrade.

Wavehogger

Wow, I bet you can't get a totally optioned 09 G37 sedan for that.. Plus it fits your buy low criteria, and you'll be able to sell it in a year or two for more than you bought it for!

KeithL

Actually G37 with Premium NAV (non-sport) is $36114 so the difference is a bit, of course this is not apples to apples.

KeithL

OK here is my EAT CROW statement.

Today I drove the G37 and TL AWD back to back. And I must say the 4G AWD is growing on me. The beak and center control pod still iratate me, but damn the ride is unbelievable! I really can't beleive how perfect the SH-AWD is. I really can't wait to see how they top this with a Type-S in 2-3 years.
The TL has such low end torque that it feels liek it launches off the line quicker than the G37, but the G37 is all about RPMs as it spools up the G37 is a rocket where the TL AWD starts to bog under its weight (in comparasion as it is still fast). The G37 SOW sound system has better power throughout the bad and a tad more punch, but contrarty to my earlier review the ELS is cleaner and deeper, but still looses its punch 2/3 up the volume knob, the lows just tend to fall off. This was first time I took a good selection of discs with me and compared them. What surprised me was the G37 navi while very inferior is lightning fast, the AWD nav was a noticable bit slower, but faster than my 3G.

So those of you luaghing along with my car decioson will know that I'm still a bit torn, the TL is actually a better car, hands down, but the overall balance of looks, performance and features in the G37 makes it a tough call. If the TL styling were more evolutionary rather than revolutionary I woudl probably be ina AWD by now. The deal they are giving me on the AWD is making it hard to refuse, the only thing is locating me a car. I want Paladium Metalic with Black interior and none are due, they are searching. We'll see what happens....but basically my hats off you AWD adaopters you have an awesome machine and if you like the styling then you are very lucky and happy indeed!

Wavehogger

The suspense is building. I bet they find you one keith. With so many sitting on lots, they'll surely do whatever they have to for the sale. The question is.. will you be able to resist her charm?

crxb

KeithL - I almost bought a Palladium / Ebony - when I wasn't intending to buy a car - (3G in for service) and so I wasn't really prepared and the dealer wasn't wanting to deal. Still one of my favorite color combos except for BBP

KeithL

We'll see, I know the AWD has been rare lately in ATL, but one never knows... the suspense is killing me as my 3G Type-S buyer wants his car in the next few days. Once thing I must say about my Acura dealership is they are willing to put me in a car until they get me one (I'm sure within reason) where most of the Infiniti dealers were leaving me car-less until they get my car. But then I have bought 3 TLs and a used car from this dealer in 25 months.

Colin

This is wrong. The best lease for the TL (this month) is 39 months.

crxb

- but I thought "excellent automotive industry analyst."

Colin

If you lease a TL for a selling price of 40,000 for 39 months with 2000 total down, payments are 546 plus tax.

Or you can lease for 48 months and pay 568 plus tax. So if you go for 48 months as suggested, you can pay $22 more per month for 9 months longer....

CraigMacDTA

LOL...that's why whenever someone disses the TL's looks or numbers against an A4 or 3 series, I tell them to drive the damn car and then talk to me. The SH-AWD is badass.

Hope you find your Palladium Metallic...best color hands down

crxb

If true I take it back

JD23

There's no point debating this anymore, but you are so wrong it is not even funny. Oh, btw, my car is nearly five years old, I've had no repairs in or out of warranty, and I'm about to replace my first set of tires in a few months, not second. As I stated before, a lease may be cheaper for people who trade cars every couple years, but it is definitely not cheaper for people who keeps cars for six or more years.

PetesTL

Keith, I thought you were waiting for the 6MT SH-AWD? This car may have the responsiveness and quickness of the G37 that you like, along with the ride quality of the TL. I think you might be better off to at least wait until you drive the 6MT before making a decision....otherwise, we'll probably see you here again in Oct. contemplating about trading in the 5AT for the 6MT.

KeithL

6MT and my commute do not mix, maybe some day, but I stick with AT for now.

SSFTSX

In lease you pay tax on part of car you actually use but in buying you tax on whole car life.
So if you trade car after 5 or 7 years. You lose atleast 50% of tax value. Usually $1500 for $35K to $40k car. And after 5 to 7 years. You lose much more on trade in than on trading at lease end. I drove spiritely. I usually done with tires in 3 years.
Car has finite life. It became too cost after 7 years. And latest cars have much more electronics/navigation/autoclimate/safety equipment. So future repairs will be more expensive. which was not the case with 80s and 90s cars.
Buying car does not make sense. U get free Gap insurance with lease.
Car has finite life. So better change it in 4 years than 10 years.

JD23

Your comment that cars will not last is more applicable to Audi than manufacturers like Honda. I will now give you a numerical example to illustrate my argument.

I purchased a Mazda 6 almost five years ago. Considering my purchase price and its current trade-in value, I have lost $9500, or $169 per month, since purchase. A lease for this car was slightly over $250 per month with some money down. Do you understand this example? In the financial world, you are alone if you believe leasing is cheaper for consumers.

sr4dt

One size doesn't fit all. Leasing may be financial inefficent for most cases, however there are a lot of scenarios where leasing is better than owning. This is Keith's thread about his 4G TL lets not whore it up with buy vs lease debate.

KeithL

Well no Palladium MEtalic in SE ecept in Jackson MI which woud cost $600 to have trucked here. Now waiting on when next PM is due, at least dealer is willing to put me in a car if they have one coming in a month.

JD23

You're right, I'll drop this topic now, but I did not want blatant misinformation to be spread.

KeithL

Well they located a Palladium MEtalic 250 miles away, $600 to truck it in, dealer may be willing to split it with me, need to close deal on my Type-S Saturday and I'll decide.

crxb

they want $600 miles to truck it in? otherwise they would have someone actually drive it in for free - but you wouldn't want the miles on it right. Is this common to charge for?

PGSberg

$600? Hell, A year and a half ago the closest Red Honda Civic S 4-door w/Nav my daughter could find was 250 miles away. They had it to her within 3 days at no additional charge. And this was before the dealers were begging buyers to come in. And no the extra shipping was not parsed out somewhere else in the paperwork.

Wavehogger

So they're willing to see you an AWD-Tech for invoice but they won't ship the car 250 miles? I'm surprised since you have given them so much business. I would moan and groan and just say you'll sign if they get the car, they'll fold. Unless you let the cat out of the bag on the type-s sale this weekend. Then they'll feel they have you.. even if they said they'd lend you a car before, they won't love that cost if they have to ship the new one as well.. I hope it all works out. It is a buyers market.

KeithL

It costs $600 to ship it, my guess is we'll split it or so. They are actually bending over backwards to help me. I have bought 3 TLs there, brought my friend to buy one anbought the gf's daughter a used car frm them all in 25 months. I may shop around for a flat bed and see how much it really costs.

SSFTSX

You wrong. Only if dealer gives u KBB blue book value than you lose $9.5 at minimum of the cheapest Mazda6 4 cylinder from 2004.
trading values are way lower than Blue book values.
http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/pr...a&model=Mazda6

It is non-Luxury car. Try to own Luxury car for 5 years and trade in. You will lose 70% to 80% of its value atleast on Trade in. Leasing is the only way to save ur self from Luxury losses.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Keith do you think you can get the HPT tire for free as well?? lol

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

JD23 & SSFTSX - quite the off topic posts about buying vs. leasing and cluttering up the OP's thread. Start a thread in Car Talk in the Off Topic section of the forum and/or PM each other until your blue in the face and talk about it.

JD23

I already agreed to end this off-topic discussion nine posts up.

KeithL

I actually don't want theHPT tires

But the more I look at the AWD the more I liek it, boy am I eating serious crow right now..

S2000 Driver

Don't be embarrassed to change your mind about the HPTs at some point, too -- they're awesome!

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

lol why's that? Do you prefer all-season tires instead?

KeithL

I think the stock AWD tires are perfect blend of ride and perfromance. In my 04 I had those crappy Turanza tires and Bridgestone put me in free LS-Z and while they handled great they were hard and transmitted vibration into the car. I also liek the stock AWD wheels a tad more than the HPT wheels.

crxb

My 04 had the crappy Turanza tires too - scary in the rain - I put Mich Pilot Sports on my 04 - have the same on the 09 - the Mich Pilot Sports are night and day compared to the dangerous Turanza junk. I haven't driven the a TL SH AWD w/ the stock tire/wheel.