KeithL

This may be a dealer thing and I woudl bet they mean $5K off MSRP I see that too often. We have a Honda dealer here that always advertises 0% 72 month loans and the deal is you pay MSRP with 20% down to get 0% for 72 months. All in the impossible to read fine print, or worse "see dealer for details".

SpicyMikey

Just out of curiosity I just checked the dealer near me to see how many TL's they had right now. I was going by 2-3 week old data in my recent posts. They currently have 3. Count'em. 1, 2, 3. Two base TL's and one Tech. The Tech is actually a 2010! They only have 18 cars on the entire lot! The other dealers within 25 miles of me aren't much better. Is Acura making any cars right now? These dealers are dying. This is the worst I've seen in recent memory.

Check it out yourself; www.fountainacura.com

cp3117

Oh I believe you.

You would think when all these manufactuers reduced production early in the year they would have increased production at the start of the new model year or at least distribute the models to dealers better.

Your Acura dealer sounds like the Audi dealer in my area. Like i posted earlier, most of their showroom is used cars so at least they have something to show customers and im sure they would die to have 18 new vehicles in stock to show/sell to customers.

Im sure if the Acura dealers in my area could trade their vehicles across border down to Florida they sure would as they cant seem to sell them here.

I thought the same thing at first untill i checked the small print and it clearly said "Factory to Dealer incentives will be deducted AFTER the negotiated price before taxes".

These arent some dealer "price leaders". These are Actually on the Acura.ca web site and dealer web sites.

http://www.silverhillacura.com/NewVe...6/Default.aspx

Sales in Canada for Acura where -45% last month and this was with the same aggressive sales campain as i listed above for all of September. They extended the sale for all of October now and basically doubled the TL incentive in hopes of moving them.. The MDX has been the best selling Acura in Canada and I cant believe they are offering $8500 off their typically best seller . If Acura sales dont go up drastically after this month, Acura Canada is going to be hurting bad i would think.

YetiTL

In my city, all the first batch of 2010 TL are pre-sold as the dealer is completely dry on FWD. I think they might only have 1-2 base TL remaining and 1 blue one tech+sh-awd they can't seem to sell but that's it.

So basically, my dealer lacked FWD tech TL to sell, it cost them 3-4 deals.

So inventory allocation and production is surely to blame (in part).

Sonor Kid 2

I see lot's of excuses for the sales numbers the 4G TL has been generating but the bottom line is that Acura isn't going to sell a third of the TL's they did in 2004 and that isn't just because of the economy.
The 4G just isn't as appealing overall, the competition has improved, especially Audi and GM.
Couple that with the higher price tag and the results speak for themselves, most dealers in the Chicago Suburban Area still have plenty of inventory.

PetesTL

I agree with you for the most part. The economy is a HUGE factor though as evidenced by a broad drop in auto sales from virtually every car maker. When you have unemployment near 10% and the extreme difficulty in getting credit and financing, people just aren't going to buy. It doesn't help that the 4G has a polarizing design and a higher base price than the 3G. Add to this, a much higher level of competition than ever before. However, don't worry.....Acura isn't going away anytime soon.

winstrolvtec

The success of the 3G is not something you can hit on every model generation. There is something to be said with the overall direction of the new version and there is more to be said with the economy. Acura's losses are in line with everyone elses, with exception to Audi who has lossed very little in percentages but that's misleading because their sales numbers were at the bottom to begin with.

The TL shares the market fairly evenly with most other luxury sedans. If you now view the TL as a mid it is about one or two thousand units behind the best selling vehicles in that class excluding the ES and does it with mostly FWD models and no wagons, V8's, or high end sport distinct models. Against the entry cars, it has surpassed the G sedan and is within 3k units of anything else outside of the C class and 3 series which are the only cars in that class which show any real sales advantage.

I agree with the statements that the 4G probably won't be as successful as the 3G even when taking into account the 30% average automotive economical decline rate but that doesn't mean it won't be successful and doesn't already hold it's own. For the record, the TL has already surpassed one third of what they sold in 2004.

Sonor Kid 2

You guys both make good points, the economy is definitely a factor.
I just got rid of my 2008 TL and miss it already, I'm still facinated by the 4G but couldn't pull the trigger.

YetiTL

I think you're right. The polarizing styling doesn't help as the increased size/weight play a role I think. 3G TL were smaller/lighter cars and this was a quality of the model. IMHO, one of the problem is taking a model like the TL which historicaly was in the entry-level lux segment with smaller cars (3 series and G37 come to mind). This might be where most people think the TL should stand. It's hard to move a model upmarket and the sales for such models are much smaller.

People complained about the bland styling of the 3G and Acura listen to them, we get the power plenum grille...

People complained about the back space and we end up with a car, 6-8 inches longer than the competition and 100-200 poiunds heavier too. It drags good numbers down and bad numbers up, which isn't exactly a good thing.

In retrospect, Acura management probably wish they stuck with a refreshing of the 3G and call it quit. Even with the tanking economy, they could have sold maybe 40-50k models this year.

My post isn't about the grille or the size of the car, but about what represent the TL and why the sales tanked so much this year.

My point is that moving a car upmarket is a daunting task. It would have been probably better IMHO to remake the RL into a better, more competitive package (more power, better fuel economy and more style) and let the TL fight the 3 series with the SH-AWD system, 6MT/AT and the superb interior (while the outside is polarizing, most reviews give great comments about the TL interior,no?). Keeping the size of the 3G or slightly bigger would have helped the numbers too and we all know how important numbers are for the almighty bragging rights! LOL

The last problem is the higher price tag. This is a problem for Acura as being a «value» near-lux/lux brands usually means you have customers looking for the best of both worlds. So you can't charge the premium BMW/ Audi/ MB charges because you can't say: I have the best chassis, engine, drivetrain, turbos, vinyl seats and fuel pumps , whatever and you can't have as many problems or reliability issues because Acura is japanese and japenese = reliable in our collective mind.

However, reliability tends to be costly and then you get in the 3 teutonic brands price ranges and some people will start buying german cars instead «because at that price point, might as well fork the cash and drive a driver's car», whatever that means. Hey, I heard it so don't blame it on me!

Ok, my ramblings are over. Please note this was my somewhat uninformed opinion.

YetiTL

You brought an A4 2.0T convertible, right? What do you miss about your TL? I'm just curious...

KeithL

I don;t think they are charging premium prices yet, but the big inreases in the TL prices has put the AWD at the top end of my budget and I can only assume a Type-S will add another $2K to that making it around $45K-$46K which will surely put it out of my reach. I will say had the 3G been built as solid as the 4G and just add the power to the ELs and I would have bought another Type-S! I will say the 4G is built rock solid, it feel much better built than the 3G. BUT how much of that came from increased cost vs. just better build quality.

What I woudl liek to see is a Type-S 3.7 FWD model say at close to the AWD price, that will keep me in another TL. The AWD is nice, but I got it becasue the FWD was way too soft for me coming out of a Type-S.

PetesTL

Keith, I'm curious to know if you have any regrets about not waiting for the 6MT, which would be closer to your former Type-S in terms of performance.

(However, considering your past history of flipping cars almost every year, I would say that I wouldn't be too shocked to see you in a 6MT soon!)