boe_d

I'm familiar with the 4G TL - the fact that it isn't a top seller sure doesn't shock me in the least. Someone thinking a 4G TL looks better than all others would shock me though.

Franco2112

I'm a new 2012 TL buyer and believe sales are low because of inventory. There was only 6 new tls and 1 used 2011 at my purchase memorial day. They had 1 2012 advanced fwd and 1 awd. The dealership was tight at first msrp or nothing on the advanced fwd or awd and stated supplies were low which was true. In the end paid $737 over invoice and 0.9% on the fwd. Also any vehicle demanding premium fuel 8 out 10 consumers will hesitate to buy. I almost did for the cheaper hyundai sonata and chevy camaro.Sales will improve with more stock and cheaper fuel. It's a great car! Franco

halls120

I owned my 2004 for seven years - two years longer than I have ever owned a primary vehicle. While I'm not as happy with the styling of my 2011 SHAWD, I can tell you that I am more than very happy with the performance upgrade.

Stew4HD

I could give a flying fork what you think of my opinion. I find your response little more than troll bait. I find my car to be the best looking car on the road and dare you to prove me wrong! You can't... be shocked by that too... Maybe you buy your car to impress others, I bought mine to impress myself.

TechnoCat

<Brrraph!> Wrong answer!

Inventory on the 2010 and 2011 models was definitely not constrained. Only a few die-hard zealots ever used that weak excuse. And on the 2012s, the earthquake/Tsunami came quite a bit after release and the initial poor sales numbers.

Although, honestly, the weak sales surprise me. I bought a 2010 thinking the styling was a bit Buck Rogers but not too bad, and the reason I moved on (far faster than ever before) had nothing to do with style and everything to do with my personal preferences for comfort and luxury. The 2012 fixes the style bug-aboo well, and some of the finish-gap too. But WSJ reported today that Acura cut incentives at the same time, which is equivalent to raising prices, not a great idea in this economy.

BT9

There's some truth to that...keep your scarce inventory so other buyers at least have something to look at, by not budging much on prices. However, other brands deal with perpetual low inventories by having a high percentage of buyers do factory orders.

The original article that started this thread seems to do some selective statistics. If you look at the current TrueCar prices paid (average nationwide) for TL's they're at $36670 which is about $700 below average invoice. Seems price relative to invoice, not percentage change, is a more relevant thing to compare.

Stew4HD

Please stop posting truths.. that goes against the conspiracy that TL owners secretly want to own a BMW or Audi

When I bought mine, I was told that these cars were in short supply.. I posted that here and had some folks tell me that the dealership way lying just to keep prices up... yet when I go visit the dealer, I don't see many '12, and no Advanced... but hey.. wouldn't really rather be driving a Beamer? I rest my case with TechnoCat's response.. an Audi owner chiming in about how few '12's there are *shrug*

Edward'TLS

No surprise here.

2010/2011 TL = unwelcome front end styling => weak sales.
2012 TL = production cut back after the launch date => not enough to sell.

omaralt

i really dont care what others think i know for a fact that when i purchased my TL the dealer here in tampa has 6 base TL's, one w/tech, and one awd 6 spd manual. no advances or auto sh-awd. the salesman was very upset telling me now that they have a car they can easily sell they have no inventory.

Rich Gibson

I have to agree. I purchased an AWD 2010 in Feb 2010. The ride was extremely harsh, almost like riding on railroad ties, and horrid mileage. My wife began getting headaches from it. I don't understand because my previous car was a 2001 Subaru Forester AWD. The kicker was trying to put my luggage in the trunk. I couldn't get our two medium suitcases in side by side. So I tried our 2004 TSX and they fit with room to spare. Sold it the last day of 2010 and bought another TSX (white with tech package); best car we've ever owned.

Rich

jasonwdp10

I also did not like the harsh ride. It was a rude awakening with all the random loud thuds even though I've been driving hondas all my life. The 14.5mpg wasn't great either (I do mostly city driving). The trunk space is the absolute worst thing about this "big on the outside small on the inside" car. I can't believe a tsx has a larger trunk.

Edward'TLS

The 4G TL's odd shaped trunk makes it look small, and is impratical to hold big luggage.

Glashub

I'm sorry that Acura surprised you all with the trunk and ride at the last minute. Dirty marketers that they are. Fortunately, I was able to discover this before I bought the car.

jasonwdp10

I know right? who would have thought that I couldn't fit the same luggage that I did in my civic.. in a much larger car like the TL? It's it also weird that the TL can't fit the same luggage as a TSX?

Do you bring luggage with you during your test drives? I sure didn't, I naturally assumed a significantly larger car would be able to fit more luggage.

Also, unlike dealers elsewhere. Most dealerships in socal are located near large big flat nicely paved streets, and test drives are 2-3 miles or less, no hwy. Non of that "take it home over night" crap here. So wouldn't you think it would be pretty difficult to know exactly how the ride would be from 3 miles of nicely paved streets?

jasonwdp10

another complaint from thetruthaboutcars 2012 base tl review (thanks tsx69):
https://acurazine.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13046882&postcount=225

"Frustratingly, several things have gotten decidedly worse. Foremost is the trunk. If you’re loading something heavy, you’ve now got a 10.5 inch lip to hoist your bags over, versus 7 inches in the 2005 TL. Why? Similarly, if you’re going to the airport, one giant wheely bag will fit without issue, but 2 of them? Good luck with those bumps on the floor. You can’t blame AWD, since this particular car is FWD. So, again, why?"

Stew4HD

So that's why the TL isn't selling... no luggage space.. OMG.

winstrolvtec

No offense to anybody but it amazes me how people "just" buy cars. The TL is far from being without fault but these are not small critiques, they tend to be make or break criteria IMO. If one doesn't want a near 4k lb mid size car with AWD and the gas mileage that goes with it or the sporty aspirations of a smaller compact (and in some cases better) in a mid size body and the ride that goes with it as well, plus needs/wants a flat, larger, folding trunk, why do you buy a TL? How do you make it passed the test drive?

I am not trying to be rude but if I had the degree of complaints or issues as some of you guys and the importance of the issue that it is to me at least, I would never buy the car in the first place, it's as simple as that. That's not me defending the car either because what I am saying, if these areas are of paramount importance to anyone as an individual, is NOT to buy the car. Best case scenario, check it out but pay extra attention to these details. We know these are issues the car faces but they don't/didn't have to be "your" issues.

In the example above, going to a FWD compact with an I4 from a mid size AWD V6 is a pretty substantial difference. There are also other brands who make AWD cars that have less sporty aspirations with softer ride quality (at the expense of handling) and trunks that are flat and fold down, if you are looking for the thing the car is not intended to be. It doesn't have to be a Honda or Acura either. It has always been my stance that this is a big part of the problem.

Every car has compromises that are mostly determined by the indidvdual based on their needs and preferences. Every automaker choses to prioritize what they want the car to do, what it's main purpose is, and who they want it to target. The best thing to do is find the car that best suites you. I apologize it this comes off in the wrong way but I'm just trying to help save some a lot of grief and money.

Lastly, the TL is not only "big outside" and "small inside". The TL is a "long" car which is the only real issue with it's disproportion, as that's the only part of it's exterior that is not reflected inside but it has a good amount of passenger volume for a mid szie. I am sure Acura could have made a larger trunk but chances are it would have come at the expense of the passenger volume. Some people would welcome that, others wouldn't, you can't please everyone.

It is no secrect that in the industry, smaller cars can have larger cargo spaces. That's what the maker intended. That's why we have variety and choice in the first place. According to Lexus, the tiny (nearly sub-compact) IS has more cargo room than the nearly mid size VW CC. There is really nothing wrong with that, VW feels that CC consumers want more of the interior volume represented in passenger volume, Lexus feels the IS should have a big trunk for the size of the car but it still has one of the smallest passenger volume in class. That's why it is important for one to buy what is as close as possible to being exactly what they want since you can't have everything and a car can't be everything to everyone.

BT9

re: current inventory,
I live in the desert southwest. 4 dealers within 100 miles: dealer 1 has 16 2012 TL's in stock, zero AWD; dealer 2 has 27 in stock, zero AWD; delaer 3 has 20 in stock, 1 AWD plain, 1 AWD tech. Dealer 4 has 11 in stock, zero AWD.

Apparently Acura thinks the SH-AWD only sells in climates where it snows and doesn't allocate many to desert dealers. That definitely has an impact on sales for people only interested in the 3.7L SH-AWD--hard to sell what you don't have to show.

acura_TL2010

It is not the Acura that allocates the cars, it depends on the dealership as to what they want to stock and they always prefer what the larger crowd wants and if you are serious they will get you what you want

Stew4HD

Oh? The dealers control what cars are to be built? Any you know this because?

Hamma Tyme

Dealerships have always placed orders based on they're customer demographics and what actually sells in their geographic locations including colors and options. Factory's don't build and ship what they want to dealerships.

TechnoCat

It's not really that we "just" bought it. It simply didn't occur to us that certain things aren't provided in a car positioned as Acura (and you ) have positioned it. I mean, seriously, the last car I had without folding rear seats with a '67 Mustang.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

If I were in the market today, I'd pick up a 4th gen TL with the six speed manual tranny.

algoriddim

Sorry to say.. You flopped on your research and purchase of a 35k plus vehicle... Shame... Did you buy a house in a nice,reputable neighborhood without stepping foot in too?

All of these things need to be analyzed during/prior to purchase, not assumed.

Stew4HD

I guess I need to tell the GM at my local dealer that he's lying to me ..

He told me he got only what the factory sent him for the 12's. For these cars, right now, they get what they get. We are not talking about normal years and circumstances.

Nexson

I found out that my seats didnt fold down after the car. Basically I still would have bought the car. It's a great car and I love it more everyday.

Hamma Tyme

There is nothing normal about this year or the last few years, but one thing I'm certain of, not everyone tells the truth or truly knows what the hell is really going on in a dealership. Personally I have a close friend who owns 3 different dealerships and has people in positions to place customer orders and dealership inventory.

The stock is based on what moves in the dealership. But then again, maybe Acura is now telling dealerships what units they need to move.

boe_d

Wait a minute there, bub! Are you perhaps insinuating that a car sales person might bend the truth!?! They are the paragon of virtue (just a notch below lawyers with billboards) and I for one won't believe such libel!

Blaze9

I've been to three dealers this weekend in NC. I've been to the ones in Fayetteville, in Cary, and in wilmington.

The Fayetteville dealer had about 9-10 2012 TL's and 5 2011TL's. He had (that I saw) 4 TL's with the Tech package, and 2 with the Tech in SHAWD. He only showed me one AWD with the adv package. For the 2011's he had one adv SHAWD, one Tech, and the rest were stock.

I didn't see a "lack" in quantity. I really couldn't care less how much the TL sold. The dependablilty reports are stating that Acura, and the 2012 TL's are solid machines. That, paired with the look (I absolutely love the toned down beak) is all I need to have made my decision. Look at BMW. They're terribly rated for dependability. They're more of lease cars than own for 7-8 years cars.

I don't see too many new 4G TLs, and I'm happy. It's a great looking car, and it's fairly unique both in design, and on the road.

winstrolvtec

Even more of a reason for you to look into this aspect of any vehicle. Folding seats have nothing to do with how the car is positioned. Just looking at the trunk you can perceive potential issues you might have with it. Then you have to decide how you will be using it and if that is going to work out.

Folding seats are not a universally included feature and it is not exclusive to Acura or the TL either. Most luxury cars (some of those positioned well above the TL) need to be optioned for it in one way or another (seriously, look it up), others don't offer it at all, and some (few) make it standard across the board. This is just the way it's been for a while now, it's not any of these cars' or Acura's fault you failed to look into it. The car is what it is, the consumer makes the decision to buy it or not based on what it is and what it offers.

Plus there have been reviews about the 4G before it was released and every potential issues has been covered in one way or another. In your case, the 2010 6MT came out a year after the 09, plenty of time to research and figure out if it was completely suitable. Sites like Acurazine, etc are an even better source of personal ownership and even test drive based information. It would have helped to frequent this site before you got the car, not just after the fact to voice your displeasures.

The moment you can own up to it the better off you will be. Most cars are great cars in their own right, unfortunately some make bad decisions but I don't see why the car has to suffer as a result of this. Most of us who are happy with our cars, for the most part, wouldn't necessarily be happy or happier with cars we shopped and compared it to but that doesn't mean the others are somehow inferior as a whole, it's just that no one car is suitable for everbody.

There are plenty who move on from the TL, or will eventually, but still acknowledge that it was what they were looking for at the time just not anymore and they moved on. They still credit it and applaud people's decision in selecting it, not acting as if something is wrong with it or the people who buy them. I believe that to be the difference in someone who knows what they want and what they are buying opposed to those who don't. I don't mean to say these things to single anyone out or in an attacking manor but logically it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to see such contrasting opinions and experiences of the same car.

Glashub

TC, ever notice that when you're pointing a finger at something there are three fingers on that hand pointing back at you?

Rocketsfan

I can't relate to some of you who didn't know the back seats don't fold down and didn't know the trunk space was a bit small. These were discussed on these forums from the moment the car was released. Well, ok, not sure about the trunk being small, but the fact the rear seat didn't fold down has been an issue and complaint with TL's for years. One of the first things I noticed on the TL was the trunk being a bit small. I wouldn't carry a ton of luggage, so it wouldn't affect me - it would never be a huge factor in my buying decision. Rear seats not folding down would maybe affect me once or twice every couple of years, so again, not that big a deal, but I have brought up that it's annoying in the past. Maybe this is why it takes me months to years to make a buying decision on a car. LOL.

Acura_Dude

LMAO!!!!

I agree. I love acuras!

I LOVE YOUR AVATAR! I rly like how Acura did some simple changes for MY2012. Very nice IMO. Looks excellent.

Stew4HD

My major discussions with the GM at the dealership I go to has been after the sale. He isn't trying to sell me a car at this point but rather complaining about not having inventory to sell. He gets a lot of customers wanting the SH-AWD package and has basically none to sell.

You guys can say that all dealerships are lying all you want. Do the research yourself. Walk into your nearest Acura dealer and ask for a 2012 SH-AWD Adv TL in Black/Umber, White/Ebony or any other combo and see how many he walks you out to show you... but then again, many are convinced they (dealerships) are all full of liars....

Bottom line, IMO, this thread is nothing but pure speculation. So many experts here debating a topic with no real foundation as to why the 4G TL is not outselling their competitors yet are happy that their cars are seen less frequently on the road. That's strange to me. Like I said before, who really cares why? I don't have stock in Acura. I don't hear Honda whining about the lackluster sales. .. I just don't know anymore

jjsC5

I don't mean to sound full of myself (ok, maybe a little), but I know an enormous amount about cars and I really do a lot of homework. When I bought my wife the new '12 TL even I had a little pause about spending what I did on the car. Before I bought it I did another last round of research - as if I hadn't 100 times before, and once again I can't find anything that offers as much of everything - features, performance, quality etc, for any less money with one exception - the Hyundai Genesis. My hat is off to them, but my wife refused to consider a Hyundai.

Point being that I likely know more about cars than the folks who write those articles and I challenge them to come up with a car that offers more for the money. That is not to say there are not options for similar money - there are. But none that stands out as any better.

Glashub

I was considering the Genesis sedan too. Very temtping car. I couldn't get used to the ride (have an SH-AWD), the interior, and the fact that I have never been to a Hyundai dealership that inspired confidennce. We made good decisions going with Acura. The Genesis has had multiple problems....one in particular where the car will lose power with no warning. Here are owners poll results, http://www.genesisowners.com/hyundai...ults&pollid=33

My Acura - nada

TechnoCat

You really are a bitter hater, aren't you? My entire message was three sentences long and didn't point a finger at anyone.

I don't agree with you (as if that's news! ) but certainly have learned that by the metrics I personally care about, I did fail on research because while Audi, BMW and Mercedes are all in the same feature class, Acura isn't. Even Volvos have folding rear seats! To your eyes, that makes my research the failure. To my eyes, it makes Acura's positioning a lie. I was testing many things, but in the class that the TL claimed to be in, there was a lot I thought I could assume.

On the other hand, I've learned a lesson. Acura is not the same as a German luxury brand. It may be "separate and equal-ish", but it is not equivalent. I now know.

Acura_Dude

^^^ But I love Acura. You get hella value and great reliability compared to the german brands. Though I would LOVE to have the 2012 M5!!

Most people go the euro route because of brand image (which has been stated b4). I hate seeing BMW 328s or MB C-class or Audi A4s with HALOGEN headlights. I personally feel like HIDs should be standard, like Acuras. But that topic is for another day.

I guess for most people Acura isn't a true luxo brand. I think it is. IDC if its based off of Honda (TL, TSX for instance). I know the driving can't be compared to BMW but for the money/reliability Acura wins me over hands down. I say in the next decade or so Acura will get the credit it deserves.

boe_d

I look forward to seeing the 2011 sales number. I doubt the lipstick they put on it this year is enough to turn it around but I could be wrong, after all I don't work in the car industry. On the other hand, even thought I don't work in the car industry, I took one look at the 4G and thought - how did this make it by so many execs and into production?

If the numbers do turn around then good for them! If they don't I would hope they just scrap the 4G and consider it time to move on to a 5G way ahead of schedule.

Glashub

There you are pointing fingers again. I stand by my statement. You're calling me a "bitter hater"? You're over here in Acurazine a year later taking shots at Acura and Acura owners. There's a saying where I come from; If you can spot it, then that's because you got it.