erick3

Looking for some advise. I know the dealer's giving me a bunch of bull. After bringing them so much business, I would've assumed they would have cut me more slack. Anyways, looking at the PM TL w 6MT. They told me, after supposedly cutting all their costs, left me at $39,055. Seems way high considering the invoice is around 38k according to Edmunds. Should I just go elsewhere? Heard one of the other salesman saying that he sold another one for 2k under invoice just to move cars. Help? Thanks

Eric

erick3

Really, any sort of friendly advise would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again gentlemen!

princelybug

iTrader: (16)

They can definitely go lower. I guess there's no such thing as "friend" in the auto sales business.

Why not try getting multiple quotes online and cross-shopping?

charco

if all the information is correct... you are giving them 6% to earn.... that's almost double then what people regularly pay for... 3-4% is reasonable to me.

emceeR

I would avoid going into the dealership and simply send an email to each Acura dealership in your area and speak with Internet sales. The price is usually cut and dry and they can't keep you in the dealership and waste your time.

graphicguy

I just go in and offer the price I'm willing to pay. Dealer can say yes, or no. If yes, I've bought a car. If no, then I move on.

I offered $38K for my TL SH AWD Tech. That included everything (including doc fee) except for tax. First dealer I went to rejected it. 2nd accepted it.

1st dealer called me back a day after I bought my TL and wanted me to come back in and negotiate. Told them they were too late, that I had bought from their nearest competitor at the price they rejected. They came back with we could have worked something out. As I told them, they had their shot, but didn't want to make the deal.

I think anywhere between $38K and $38,500 including everything except tax would be a good deal.

Throw out your offer in that range and see if any of the dealerships bite.

Best of luck.

JM2010 SH-AWD

As a previous poster said, use the internet and phone to find dealers matching your price within the geographic area you'd be willing to travel to buy the car. Use the best price you can find that way to leverage the lowest price from the dealers who are still in play. 38K in the midwest is attainable, even a little lower in the northeast, Cali, and TX. Good luck.

graphicguy

JM...you're right. Apparently in the midwest (where I'm at) the TLs must be selling a bit better since the prices on either coast seem to be a bit better.

That said, I do agree with sending out email messages to dealers within the OP's general area (one he's willing to go to) and see what they come back with.

I originally tried that and all the ones that came back were still a bit more than I thought I could buy for. So, I just made up my own offer and went shopping.

007Acura

Like everyone said, get quotes from multiple dealers and bring the lowest to your local dealer and if they reject it then go to where the quote was originally from.


this is what i hate about cars, i wish there was just one constantly regulated price that everyone paid, kind of like apple products

graphicguy

Saturn tried that.....they're now defunct.

In fairness, the car business is as cutthroat as they come. One dealer will try to bury another dealer over $50. That's sometimes good for the consumer, and sometimes it's bad.

The good, competition usually yields lower prices, you just have to work a little harder to get them.

On the other hand, there's only one Inifiniti dealer close to where I live. He's always been high whenever I've gone in to try and deal with him. I'd have to travel about 75 miles to get to another Infiniti dealership. Still, the local Infiniti dealer says if I wanted to pit the two dealerships against each other, he'd take a pass. He believes (somewhat rightfully) that the "out-of-town" dealership won't give me a loaner (they won't since I'm so far away). They won't offer pickup and delivery service when I need something done to an Infiniti (they won't because of my distance). That's how he justifies his higher prices.

There are two Acura dealers in my general area. They'll go after business aggressively. But, they've competed against each other for so long, they pretty much knows what each will or won't do to make a deal.

There again, if I go outside of my area, I won't get any benefit for loaner cars, etc. The local dealers will service them. I just won't be offered the other "goodies" if I buy locally.

docboy

Erick,

Which dealership are you working with? I purchased my TL 6MT when it was initially released in the region, and back then the dealership had a few already presold at full MSRP; so my deal was a poor one. I purchased mine from Acura of Bellevue, as they gave me the highest price on my trade in.

Just my experience, but it seems that Seattle's prices on certain makes are somewhat higher than other regions. Just MHO and what I have observed (ie. with 6MT TLs, MDX, Pilots). Possibly due to the better economic conditions...

Your quote of $39k is not a bad price; I've seen lower prices here on AZ, but again it seems to be area dependent. Does it have the 19" HPT and the protection package (splash guards, trunk mat, wheel locks)?

winstrolvtec

Roughly $2k under is where you want to be considering they moved one at that price already. That is in the area of $38k like other have said. As Doc suggested if it's for a HPT model it's a great deal and even not it's still a fair deal of $1k over after dealer cash. If they appear to be making it up in trade in than fine otherwise just tell them $38k or you can't do it. If you are interested in almost $1k worth of options then maybe stay where you are and have them throw them in instead. You are right there, they will likely give you the sale they just always try to get you for as much as they can first. They are in the business to protect even a couple hundred dollars of profit. Can't blame them.

erick3

Hey Doc,

Thanks for your input. I'm actually working with Acura of Lynnwood, but I just contacted Bellevue today. They're willing to do anything earn back our business, so Karl says. Great dealer, and I think I'm set on purchasing from them. The TL I'm looking priced around $43, and I haven't the slightest clue if it comes with any goodies - I actually haven't seen the car yet; we went into Lynnwood last week hoping to walk out with something.

erick3

Thanks all for the input. I really do, sincerely, appreciate your thoughts!

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

Eric !! Starting to see the light?? Want to get a 4G ??

I paid $37,850 for mine... with no negotiation or anything... I walked into my dealer that i always buy from and bullshit with... i said...

"... I've been thinking about trading in my car for the 09. Whats the lowest price you'll give it to me for?

They said $37,850.. i signed the paper... i only went in there, to see the interior and test drive the car... i walked out with a new car


The only thing i can say is, i know a lot of members are paying a tad higher for 6MT.. when it first came out, some dealerships had the balls to charge OVER sticker price...

I think $39k flat, or maybe in the $38,500 range is pretty good for a 6MT SH-AWD in the color combo you want.... just my

The Law of Supply & Demand is a strict one... Only two dealers on Long Island have a ZDX Advance/Tech in stock right now... One of them, is asking $2500 OVER sticker, because the limited supply and increasing demand since their heavy up-sell marketing on the car starting with the Super Bowl Ads on TV


good luck man

JM2010 SH-AWD

Yes, it's not showing up on Edmunds yet, but it seems that dealers are finding themselves able to get a little more for the 6MTs because they are in shorter supply, relatively speaking. My dealer has about 70 TLs in stock, most are FWD; only one 6MT right now. The most I've seen them carry is 2 at a time.

Type34

I think the kicker on the quoted price is the 6sp availability.

SO, as others have mentioned, go to Edmunds.com, click on the big NEW CARS link, build your car, get quotes from neighboring dealers, and have fun negotiating

BG74

Forget the sticker price....work up from dealer invoice. Even if they sell you the car at invoice, they are still making money from their dealer holdback.

When I bought my previous '05 6MT Navi, there were only 2 on the entire east coast. I located one at a dealer about 100 miles from me, and sent an email to the internet sales manager. His first price was invoice - which I gladly agreed to, sight unseen.

erick3

HAHA! The 4G is indeed a great car. Thanks for your input Al. You got a pretty crazy deal!

brassai

Ok, a couple of suggestions:

First, as others have said here, talk to as many dealers as you can. I live south of San Francisco, and there are 3 dealers in the immediate area, 8 within an hour... but I actually looked as far away as Reno (ultimately any dealer inside a 250 mile radius) at pretty much any CPO back a few years (with a heavy weighting on the '09 and '10), new TL-TECH in 3 models: Base, 18" wheels, and AWD.

I investigated inventory at all, talked to maybe 10 of them on the phone, and actually visited 4 dealers.... there's something that being there face to face that helps your position, but PLEASE know what you can do before you walk in.

Currently, NEW TL's of any stripe are going below invoice no matter where you are. 3 notes on that: 1- AWD's are harder to get... especially if you get color picky. you're going to add 2K-3K in price for the feature, and maybe a bit more based on simple supply and demand. 2- Acura is currently incenting dealers at $2K for new TL sales. 3- You gotta give the dealer *something*. They have to pay the salesperson and keep the lights on.

The hard part, but the best for you, is if you have or can develop a relationship with someone at one of the dealers you talk to the point that they "open their kimono". and gives you information that you might not get from another. If you can do that from a couple of dealers... you're in with all of them and can bang out a hard deal.

For example, I've gotten a couple of dealers to give me two pieces of connected but individually somewhat irrelevant information, that together tell me a LOT. I now have a deal with my preferred dealer (and the closest and the one I bought my last TL from). I've got my choice of a TL-TECH 18" wheels for $32,330, or a TL-TECH AWD for $35,000 dead on. My color choices on the AWD are somewhat limited here in the SF Bay Area, but they told me that if I wanted something they didn't have I could pay $35,200 and they'd truck in one from Southern CA.

One of the things I learned is that SH-AWD models are somewhat limited around San Francisco and Portland, and east to Reno... but more plentiful in Southern Ca. and Seattle.

Finally, and back to the $2K incentive... is that you should (at least in MY area) expect to pay at least $1500 UNDER INVOICE. Generally that means that the Dealership will make $500 on the deal. Figuring in that the salesperson's commission bottoms out at about $200 per car sold, the dealer makes about $300 on the deal.

The busier the dealership, the lower they can go.
Also, dealers LOVE turnover. The longer they've had the car, the lower they're willing to go. Try to find cars that they've had hanging around for a while.

The last bit of advice I can offer, and this comes from my past history in co-founding startups, and working as a Business consultant... assisting in negotiating deals from car purchases for myself and family to multi-billion dollar deals between my clients and others... to negotiation in mergers and/or acquisitions (both acquiring and being acquired):

The absolute best deal you can get is one where everyone walks away from the table unhappy. If you, the dealership, the sales manager, and the salesperson all aren't quite happy with the end result... that's the absolute best you can do.

The second best is where one or all aren't quite thrilled, but think they came away with at least some form of win. E.g. You think you got a great deal, the sales manager thinks he did reasonably well for himself and the dealership, and the sales guy did well enough that he looks good to his boss.

If you never expect to work with these people ever again, or just don't care about future relationships and are happy being cut-throat, shoot for the best where no one is really happy with the result. If you DO expect a relationship and/or a decent guy, shoot for the second best, as it'll serve you well in the future.


Hope some of this helps.

D.

emceeR

I've been having bad luck with one dealer (Supposedly the #1 Acura Dealer in the US) throwing me a high price like I had bad credit and another dealer who I spoke to in internet sales who took my info and never called back, maybe Acura's are selling well here?

I contacted one more dealer and hopefully he will give me some numbers. If I have to wait to trade in my lease Acura will most likely lose my business.

emceeR

And by the way screw relationships, I am not here to make friends I'm here to do business. There is no such thing as a relationship with these sales people and dealers. Take a look at all of the threads where people purchased a few cars, sent the dealer business and they were never taken care. I look out for numero uno which is me, and the best deal for me is when I am happy, I could care less how the dealer feels...lol

Other than that I agree with everything you said, great post.

seatown

I would call a bunch of Acura dealers and make them fight for your business. That's how I got the deal on my car, sticker price was 38,900 and I got it for 33,200 before tax and licensing of course. If you want the guys name I dealt with let me know

emceeR

Is it common for a dealer to not disclose specifics of a car payment? I contacted 3 dealers and not one would not tell me how they came up with my payment? Sorry if this is hi-jacking, thought it would be useful in this thread since we're talking about negotiations.

Dealing with internet sales is difficult as well. Nobody will give you specific numbers, and to me it appears they are hiding something. I just get a monthly payment.


2010 Acura TL Base 12K/year for 36 months
MSRP with Destination:
Invoice with Destination:
Negotiated Invoice: Residual value:
Money factor rate:
Monthly payment:

brassai

NEVER NEVER NEVER let them sell you on a payment of any kind. IF you include the financing in the base deal, only concern yourself with APR, down payment, and Term, never payment. Also note that the salesperson and/or sales manager CANNOT commit to any specific financing, and that's why you end up with the finance person after your dealing is done... not to mention that He/she is still in sales and that's where you'll get hit with things like the maintenance and protection packages, etc.

You're better off telling them to their face that you don't CARE about the financing. To make my deals I always say that I have the cash in the bank to write a check on the spot if they can work the deal with you (caution from the drool you'll likely encounter). At the very least, tell them you've already got financing from your bank, credit union or some-such (after all... you did you're homework, know what you want to pay, and HAVE ALREADY talked to your bank or Credit Union haven't you? If not... do not finish your deal till you have done so!!)

Anyway, tell 'em payment means nothing... because after all is done, IT DOES NOT! OUT THE DOOR price means everything to you and nothing more (again, you've done your homework... you already know what the tax is, the license fee, transfer... etc???)

So... you tell them cash out the door... you work out the deal... you're happy. Then you say.. "Oh, by the way, let's talk financing". When they balk at that, you simply say "You have 1.9% APR available. I'd be remiss in not exploring it." Then again... talk APR, down, and Terms... NOT PAYMENTS. You can calculate the payments yourself with a simple amortization program on your smart-phone or computer. YOU do that, keep on point of APR, down, and Term.

Compare it to what your Credit Union/Bank told you. If you get a good deal after that, sign the check. If not, walk out... the car will still be there tomorrow or next week.

Your worst enemy is impatience and fatigue. You'll have at least 3 people tag-teaming you. If you're hard core, they'll do everything to keep you there and wear you down. Get up frequently, take little walks when they're in the Sales Mgr Office schmoozing (you really think it takes the Sales Mgr. THAT long to counter you? nah...) Look up at the salesperson and tell him/her that you're going to take a quick run down the street to Starbucks while they figure out if they really want to work with you. Last time I pulled that one I got offered a cofee, an I countered with Ice Tea... they sent someone for it and paid. I still wandered around the building while the "salesman pleaded my case" and went outside to catch a breath of air.

Don't get impatient, don't let yourself get worn down... and there's nothing more fun than playing the game. It's like poker... an adrenaline rush.

And I'll say it one more time... if you need to walk out and come back another day... Do it. The car (or it's exact sibling), will be there tomorrow or next week or next month.

D.

emceeR

Thanks for the reply.

Acura has the worst reviews for a luxury car brand, if I check out reviews of dealerships most get 2-3 stars out of 5, whereas Lexus and Infiniti usually have 4-5 star ratings.

With sales people like this, no wonder Acura Sales are down. Start from the top and work your way down. This deal was not made because they refuse to add 18 inch wheels to the vehicle in which I AGREED TO PAY FOR.

graphicguy

I'm with "brassai" on this. Good advice there.

It doesn't sound like you're really sold on the TL. If not, decide on the car you want first. Then, go to places like Edmunds.com, or even better, trucar.com to see what others are paying in your area for the exact car you want.

Now, you have a baseline you can deal from. Can't stress this enough, as has also been stated, NEVER deal on a payment....I don't care if you're in a Lexus store, an Audi store, or a BMW store. There are way too many ways to be exploited on a payment, from any brand or dealership.

ALWAYS look at the total cost (negotiated price + fees + license + tax). That's the amount you're financing (if you're financing). It's always a good idea to have a backup finance avenue, too (like a credit union or your personal bank). While, I doubt they can beat Acura's 1.9% right now. But, it is a good negotiation tool to tell them you're not worried about financing through Acura.

emceeR

I'm serious about the car, but on the flipside I have a 2008 Acura TSX I am perfectly happy with that has one more year left on the lease.

Just received a call from a motivated dealer that's ready to sell me the Tech TL for the quotes I've been receiving on a Base TL + Wheels. Currently waiting for an OK and hoping they can pull through for me.

I agree in most cases to negotiate on the total purchase price. But...as long as you know what other good deals people have been getting. For instance if you go over to Edmunds they have threads posted on what they've been paying based on residual, how much down, invoice, ect... So if I were to take the top 3 lowest monthly payment and get my payment close to what they paid I am happy.

Also take a look at Acura's Base TL deal going on right now. $440 per month + tax, 10k per year, 36 months. As a current Acura owner I know I should be getting a better price based on the loyalty discount. If I get the Base for a lower price than what they advertised I feel as though I am getting a good deal.

I've seen base models go anywhere between $400 per mo to $490 per month so if I can get one at $450 per month I think that's pretty decent considering I am trading in an existing lease and my credit does not fall into tier1

graphicguy

emcee....you gotta be careful at those "prices paid " threads at Edmunds. Most don't tell you if they had a trade-in (which definitely affects the price of the new car). Plus, they sometimes don't include the fees that they had to pay in addition to the negotiated price. For example, doc fees are nice source of profits for dealership's too....ranging as high as $700-$800. Those fees are sometimes posted as "non-negotiable" and "required" by the dealer....neither of which is true.

Then, there are some that post prices that aren't anywhere close to what they really paid, just to say they paid lower than anyone else.

Good luck in your search.

emceeR

Got it! Thanks!

Well hopefully by today my deposit will be made and I'll officially be part of the TL Community.

brassai

Whoa... back it up.... you're obviously talking LEASE which is far different from PURCHASE. I've never negotiated anything resembling a lease on a car, so I'm out of my league on that one.

GG, you're absolutely right about doing your homework and the effect of a trade-in. That's another, completely seperate negotiation. Just as the Credit situation should be negotiated separately from the car price, so should the trade-in, with it's own research. Yeah, it may piss off the dealer that you say "I don't have a trade-in" and then get that sprung on them AFTER you do the deal on the car... Oh well.

D.

brassai

Dayumm... surprised someone didn't call me on that one; I guess that's what I get for replying in the wee hours of the morning after playing poker and having a couple of Gin and Tonics afterward.

the $35 above was a typo... Should have been $38,000 or $38,200 for something trucked in.

The deal I ended up with this evening:
TL-Tech SH-AWD, Polished Metal Metallic, Black interior. Will be trucked in and here by noon tomorrow. Final cost to me: $38,100. If they'd had it here, given invoice, holdback, and Acura incentive, I could have gotten about $300 more if I wanted to leave an unhappy dealer... but given transport costs that the dealership is splitting with another dealer (They're sending the truck anyway to pick one up fr the other dealer... ends up being a dealer swap for transport purposes).

I think I got a great deal.

D.

graphicguy

brassaie....you did good. Very similar to my deal. In the midwest, there's no way to get any of the dealer holdback (around $800 on your car). I figured $37,109 as the dealer's cost (including the $2250 dealer marketing rebate from Acura). Add in another $800 of holdback, I was at $37,909. Anything within $250-$300 of that number is good.

emceeR

Congrats

CraigMacDTA

I love how those posts always turn into a bashing of the salesperson...guys, we're not all scumbags...we only turn into them if you're a scumbug yourself!

emceeR

I don't think sales people are scum bags, it's just that I find that for a car that is not selling very well some of these sales guys are very unmotivated. Why would you throw away a sale because a customer wanted 18 inch wheels that he was willing to pay for and you're not willing to put them on the car?

I hate playing games, give me your best quote and leave it at that. Instead I have to bargain, finagle, meet them half way, meet in the middle..ect I have to walk out and then be called 2 days later and given what I want which wastes both of our time.

I've dealt with great salesman, and I've had my fair share of bad ones too more so than good.

AcuraTL

I just bought a Pearl White 2010 TL AWD-TECH in the Bay Area for $36,800.00 before tax/license.

erick3

^ how the f*#$?! that's an amazing price man! please, details details!!!

brassai

Heh, I never bashed my Sales Consultant, in fact this is the second Acura I've bought from him and there'll likely be a third in another year when I get my Wife a TSX (her preference).

I just like to play the game.

Funny though. Part of me doing my diligence on the car is to research it almost over the top... all part of the thrill of the hunt. Last Saturday, as I was sitting at the dealer looking over the color sets for the last time, and working out much of the final deal, there was another set of customers in the showroom looking at an RL. They saw me sitting right there, Their Sales Consultant was around the corner grabbing them some literature. I was glancing at the wife (who was somewhat attractive... I was trying to be subtle ) and they asked me if I was looking at purchasing an RL. This started a long conversation where I said I was getting a TL, and a quiet comment from me that for my money, the TL was better bang for the buck. He drives an E-Class and she drives a 5 series, and I suggested the TL was every bit as feature rich as either, for a heck of a lot less.

In any case, they ended up buying a TL-AWD on Monday to replace the 5-series, and he's serious about an RL to replace his E-Class. Their Sales guy saw me in the dealership on Tuesday, and told me straight up that he'd heard my conversation with the couple, and that he'd intentionally lurked around the corner listening in case he needed to jump in, but didn't feel he needed to until they were about to leave to finish their research. Then he suggested that I'd be a great addition to their sales team, re-introduced me to the Sales Manager, who handed me an application for a job and said he'd heard that I'd basically sold the couple their car and if I wanted a side-job doing sales he'd love to have me. Apparently I also got into a conversation with a guy looking at a ZDX this was Weds when I was finalizing my deal and all of the sales consultants were busy... He asked what I was buying, we talked, and when my Sales Consultant came back from what he was doing for me, I quietly pointed out that this guy was seriously looking at a ZDX and could use some help. I got thanks from the Sales Manager again... and a re-iteration that if I wanted a job....

I'm actually considering it. I'm basically retired from my past in High Tech startups and doing Business Analysis/Consulting and running Software Engineering teams. I could do this for fun and to keep sharp, and I don't need the job. Could take off any time I wanted to travel (which is in the plans).

brassai

Uhh... speaking as a First Generation Saturn owner, they did exceptionally well with their 1-price policy, and even more so with their Lexus level customer service and support. GM really screwed them over a few years later when they "pulled them back into the flock" and started treating them like any other GM dealer an car line. Quality suffered, the dealer experience suffered, and Customer service and support REALLY suffered. It was at that point that they really did become a different car company... from what they'd been before.

I got my SL2 in the second year of life for the company, and it was a solid community. My little 4-banger was not exactly an Acura in it's acceleration, but it handled like a dream. The same weight-to horsepower and rolling resistance as a Corvette Z3, but with a lower coefficient of drag, meant it took me longer to get up there but it was every bit as fast and the year after mine they put an electronic speed governor on it.

I was radar-clocked down in the So. Cal. desert one day at 142 MPH and it was solid as a rock in the slight cross-wind. I was on a back road up to Vegas, and I'll admit I was passed like I was standing still by a Ferrari or Lamborghini or whatever it was... but when I was pulled over by the CHP and told I was doing 142, he asked if I had put a different engine in the car, and even looked under the hood. He then said that no one else would believe my Saturn was doing that speed no matter what the radar and his speedometer said... and it would be laughed out of court. Then admitted HE was a bit incredulous. He left me with a stern warning to SLOW THE %^CK DOWN!!


I put over 150K miles on that car before getting my first TL in 2006. Still miss the little bugger.

D.