Is mid-grade gasoline OK for 2014 TL?
 

Hi,

My wife and I just bought a 2014 TL with Tech. The manual seems to strongly recommend premium gas, but the dealer says that mid-grade is fine and would do no harm.

For 44 years, I've been driving cars that take regular gas, so this takes a little getting used to. Last year, we bought a 2013 RDX. The manual says that Acura recommends but does not require premium. At the dealer's suggestion, we have been using mid-grade and that seems fine. The TL manual seems to be worded a little more strongly. Maybe we will alternate between mid-grade and premium.

What is the consensus on this? My impression is that mid-grade will not damage the engine, but the slight increase in MPG with premium may offset the $0.20 difference in price.

Thanks,

Gregg

with Mid-Grade your MPG will fall by at least 1-2 and the $0.20 difference quickly goes out the window. Mid grade will also cause more knocking, more buildup of carbon and will keep your car from performing at it's best.

I did the math on my MDX and TL a while ago and found I'd be spending 2-3 dollars more per tank filling up with mid-grade and that I'd also be harming the car.

the J-series engine has ALways been high strung.
it has a high engine compression ratio at 11:1 race car status.

Mid grade will be fine. You can even put 87 in the car. I would look around for some 80 octane to save a few more cents here and there. Heck with premium. I always look to by a nice mid to top of the line model vehicle and put the cheapest gas possible in it. My TL gets the same thing I put in the lawnmower. Not like it's more advanced. Enjoy the car, for the money you save a month you an probably spring for a large pizza with the works.

Unlike other people, I find this to be a legitimate question.

For the record, I have never put anything other than 91 octane in mine which is the best grade we can get in Quebec. The difference between the 87 and the 91 up here is about 12 cents per liters. On a 70 liter tank, it's a difference of $8.40 is the tank was bone dry. So I don't know where people get the $2-$3 per tank. It's more like quadruple that amount. But whatever. It's still not that much money and it may vary depending on where you live.

Having said all that, here is some info I gathered from friends and my mechanic. It may or may not be right... Just food for thought.

1- A buddy of mine had a Jetta GLI a few years back. At that time, I had a 2.0T Passat Wagon (same engine as the GLI). It's a turbo compressed engine and calls for 91 octane. I always put 91 in mine. My buddy always put 87 in his. He kept an log of his mileage and consumption, as did I. His cost per km was a little cheaper than mine, factoring in consumption and price difference. Of course, the Passat is a much heavier car. Not sure what it would have been if we had compared with two GLIs.

2- I never understood why a V6 in an Accord calls for 87 octane and the same V6 in an Acura calls for 91 octane. Maybe someone here can chime in on that...

3- My mechanic that specializes in Hondas and Acuras owns a 2010 TL. I asked him if only put 91 in his. He said that once, he put 87 (by mistake or to test it... not sure), and his car threw a CEL. Something about octane rating. Since then, he only puts 91.

I realize that my rambling is not very helpful but I guess what I'm trying to say is that most purists would tell you to stick to 91 and will bash you for even contemplating putting anything less than that. It's probably preferable. But your question is legitimate in my mind.

I think I might have answered my own question.

The engine in the Acura TL AWD has a compression ratio of 11.2x1
The engine in the Accord V6 has a compression ratio of 10.5x1

I'm not sure about the compression ratio of the FWD which really is the one we should compare the Accord to.

My guess is the TL probably still has a higher compression ratio.

the compression ratio is the same for all TL's.
even my 2006 TL is 11:1

race car status.
p.s. when I go to the track, they sell 100 octane.
POWER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Another interesting read on CR : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compression_ratio
I draw your attention to this part : "In 2012, Mazda released new petrol engines under the brand name SkyActiv with a 14:1 compression ratio (U.S. models have a 13:1 compression ratio to allow for 87 AKI octane)"

So a 13:1 CR in a Mazda can run on 87 octane but an 11.2:1 in a TL can't...

Maybe there are other variables to consider ?

^direct injection versus your rail fuel injection

they call it sky active and acura calls it Earth Dreams

vbgregg...Congrats on yoru purchase ;) As you know, you will never get a straight answer on this topic as this has been raised many times and depending on who chimes in, you will get a different answer.

I am with the camp of "its just a few dollars more per tank so why not do it". I hate giving money to oil companies but at the same time, I like to give my vehicles the best it can have. For me, the extra 20$ a months for th peace of mind is worth it.

Make sure you post a few pics when you get a chance :)

I run 87 in all of my cars, even my Vette. It won't hurt a damn thing or change the gas mileage. I have put 4k miles on my TL since February when I bought it. I used 93 octane for the first month and after that switched to regular. No difference at all in the car. The cost between 87 and 93 is almost .40 cents a gallon more. So on 10 gallons you're looking at 4 bucks more. Top that for when I was filling up my TL every other day at 15 gallon refills that 6 bucks adds up quick.

The world's largest engine company is telling you to use a certain octane for their premium brand's engine.

/thread

High compression performance engines will last longer with high octane gasoline.

Here is why

The higher the octane number, the more compression the fuel can withstand. In broad terms, fuels with a higher octane rating are used in high performance gasoline engines that require higher compression ratios.

High compressibility of the fuel matters in proportion to the compression the engine is designed to generate. Use of gasoline with lower octane numbers may lead to engine knocking (premature ignition of the air fuel mixture).

When unburned fuel/air mixture beyond the boundary of the flame front is subjected to a combination of heat and pressure for certain duration (beyond the delay period of the fuel used), detonation may occur. Detonation is characterized by an instantaneous, explosive ignition of at least one pocket of fuel/air mixture outside of the flame front. A local shockwave is created around each pocket and the cylinder pressure may rise sharply beyond its design limits.

If detonation is allowed to persist under extreme conditions or over many engine cycles, engine parts can be damaged or destroyed. The simplest deleterious effects are typically particle wear caused by moderate knocking, which may further ensue through the engine's oil system and cause wear on other parts before being trapped by the oil filter. Severe knocking can lead to catastrophic failure in the form of physical holes punched through the piston or cylinder head (i.e., rupture of the combustion chamber), either of which depressurizes the affected cylinder and introduces large metal fragments, fuel, and combustion products into the oil system.

Detonation can be prevented:

The use of a fuel with high octane rating, which increases the combustion temperature of the fuel and reduces the proclivity to detonate.

The compression ratio is directly related to power and to thermodynamic efficiency of an internal combustion engine.

Engines with higher compression ratios develop more area under the Otto-Cycle curve, thus they extract more energy from a given quantity of fuel.

During the compression stroke of an internal combustion engine, as the air / fuels mix is compressed its temperature rises.

A fuel with a higher octane rating is less prone to auto-ignition and can withstand a greater rise in temperature during the compression stroke of an internal combustion engine without auto-igniting, thus allowing more power to be extracted. The Tl 3.7 is a high performance gasoline engine.

You need to get some updated info, the TL's computer is advanced enough to compensate for a lower octane fuel. Acuras whole premium fuel thing is just like any other luxury brands selling gimmick. Its a premium car so you need premium fuel. Yet the same engine in a lower grade car doesn't need premium? All Acuras call for premium even though the 3.5 is the same engine in other Hondas and unchanged. Ford did the same thing with the Lincoln LS, the 3.0 was the same engine in a few different Fords yet the Lincoln needed premium. The 3.8 was the V8 for the LS and called for premium, yet in the thunderbird it was rated for 87 octane. Do your research and stop asking for people's opinion and you will get a true answer.

Wrong wrong wrong.

Not only are there hardware differences, there are significant programming differences that advance and retard the ignition. Stop spouting off about things you don't know anything about.

Could have sworn the Lincoln LS V8 was the 4.0 liter. Looked into getting one back in 06 but the maxima put it to shame on features so I went with that. Most know the reason but it would take to long to explain since you don't want to research it yourself. Cool thing about it, the manufacturer did the work for you and put it in the manual. That's not good enough for you and they are the makers. Now your questions are why do I need to do what they say.

Today's cars have knock sensknock sensors. In case of detonation or spark knock they retard timing to help avoid engine damage. Now lower octane fuel carries less iso octane creating a lower flash point. Lower flash point means fuel is ignited sooner in the combustion chamber creating a early burn. Fuel is actually used to cool an engine believe it or not. Lean engines run hot.

anyway, the pcm will pull has much timing has built into the strategy, no I don't know how much, to try and adjust for the fuel in the car. Once the car reaches a certain point it goes into a failsafe mode. This is to further protect the engine. This can go on and on but why worry. What I don't understand is why someone will buy a car that requires a certain fuel and the first question they ask is can I put less than required grade fuel in it?

Most salesman are really not the knowledgeable. Now whatever it takes to sell a car is what they tell you. Once the car is sold they have their commission and onto the next sucker. I would tell you that the car will run on kerosene if it makes the sale. If your worried about fuel at the pump why not buy cars that requirors. In case of detonation or spark knock they retard timing to help avoid engine damage. Now lower octane fuel carries less iso octane creating a lower flash point. Lower flash point means fuel is ignited sooner in the combustion chamber creating a early burn. Fuel is actually used to cool an engine believe it or not. Lean engines run hot.

anyway, the pcm will pull has much timing has built into the strategy, no I don't know how much, to try and adjust for the fuel in the car. Once the car reaches a certain point it goes into a failsafe mode. This is to further protect the engine. This can go on and on but why worry. What I don't understand is why someone will buy a car that requires a certain fuel and the first question they ask is can I put less than required grade fuel in it?

Most salesman are really not the knowledgeable. Now whatever it takes to sell a car is what they tell you. Once the car is sold they have their commission and onto the next sucker. I would tell you that the car will run on kerosene if it makes the sale. If your worried about fuel at the pump why not buy cars that require 87 octane

Just read what I swiped and this note 3 sucks

But that's Brock79's superpower. That would be like asking Superman to stop flying.

"Mid grade will also cause more knocking, more buildup of carbon"




Very doubtful. New cars do not "carbon up" like the crapcans we drove in the 60's.
I have a "10, fwd.
Don't know if the newer TLs are any different.
I have used several tanks of 89 octane.
Have driven thousands of km on the Interstates at 75 mph+.
I have also used 93 and 94 octane.
I cannot notice any difference.
Yes, I know what pinging (knocking) is, I am an old guy.
I think the computer adjusts for the octane level if necessary and you may not get "top performance" with lower octane gas, but I very much doubt you will hurt anything.
However having said that, I will now contradict myself.
When the manual says premium suggested or preferred you are Ok to use a lower grade. When the manual says premium required, they want you to always use premium.

Jim, I'm old as well; https://acurazine.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif hence, once an engine compression is rated higher than 10:2 most manufactures will advice to use 91 octanes or higher - Mid grade or lower 86 Oct are advised for engines between 8.1 and 10.2 compression rate.

The computer protection for knocking and damage the engine is a preventive feature build-in to eliminate human error, coincidently filling your tank with 86 Octane. (No substitute, this will hurt the engine over time).

The simplest deleterious effects are typically particle wear caused by moderate knocking (with 89 octane almost unnoticeable), which may further ensue through the engine's oil system and cause wear on other parts before being trapped by the oil filter.

I use Shell in Canada. It contains no ethanol.

Always go by what the manufacturer suggests. Its like a doctor telling a smoking patient not to smoke. If the patient doesnt listen sooner or later they will suffer the consequences. Its not an immediate effect that the smoker will realize but the effects will show later on in their life.

Yea here's the problem with most of you members on here, you guys just assume you know the answers. The Lincoln was actually a 3.9 and is what I meant to type, it wasn't a 4.0, so I guess someone should do their research. The engine was used in the Jaguar though as a 4.0 with a slightly different set up, the engines were built in the same plant next to each other. The 06 was the last year of the LS so, I would hope a newer model car would have more options.

Now this is where it gets good. I remember when I joined this site and all of you Super TL FANBOYS were blushing over the the few mods available and saying you got 40-50 HP from your mods. I kept saying the entire time BULLSHIT, yet you guys kept telling me I was wrong and hated Acuras. I said those mods gave you 15 HP maybe 20 if you were lucky. I was told in that thread I have no idea what I was talking about and that I was full of shit.

Low and behold a member did a few dyno runs in his TL with a bunch of mods and got 15 HP. I didn't see anyone on here that said I was full of shit say another word about HP gains with the mods are how I was wrong. No one said holy shot Brock was right either. But this just goes to show that I in fact do have a fucking clue about cars and how they work and I'm not some dillusional retarded Acura fanboy. The member above mentions that I didn't even look up the LS engine size and he just goes and says its a 4.0 and says I'm wrong. I owned a LS, I know what was in the car, go google it and look it up. Or just take some other idiots word for it that it's a 4.0, just like it's not OK to put 87 in your TL. The car wasn't tuned to run strictly on 91-93 octane, shit if it 87 were to do damage to the car and cause knocking then you couldn't run 93 or 94 in it either. You would have to run strictly 91. By the way Acura/Honda is very aware that you will not always have access to premium fuel, so the car can run on 87 just fine.

If you don't understand why 93-94 octane would be just as harmful as filling up with 87 octane, then you really need to stop replying on this thread and get a fucking clue.

Read my above post and get a clue.

91 or better.

/Thread

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take-road-test

4th paragraph down will tell you the engine was a 4.0 liter. Same one that the built and supercharged for a special edition ranger. Engine was a 4.0 Brock not a 3.9. If you had one it had 4.0 liter engraved into the plastic cover on the engine Brock. Google it Brock.

Guess what Brock, running a higher octane fuel will never hurt an engine. There comes a point of diminished returns. Take a low compression engine and the best performance will come from 87. Run 93 and you will lose a few horsepower but gain better fuel economy since it won't burn as fast. Go to the track and put 110 octane and it will run like a pig. Exhaust will smell good and start turning a nice brownish white. Will it hurt the motor ? Yes and no. No it won't harm the engine because of the octane. Actually it will clean the carbon off valves and pistons. Bad side, it's leaded fuel so it's hard on injectors and valve seats. If it was unleaded it wouldn't bother the car one bit.

Now you can run MR 12 which is oxynated fuel and pick up 7- 10 hp. Equivalent to 105 octane but it's lead free. Cost about 25 to 30 bucks a gallon. If higher octane hurt engines they wouldn't sell octane booster Brock. So your wrong on everything you just said. One last time Brock, the LS you had was a 4.0
I looked at the car but was sickened that the 3.5 in the Nissan was stronger than the 4.0 liter in the Lincoln LS. I don't understand how you had the car and made the mistake BROCK. Google all day and it's 4.0 BROCK

I don't think it's a question of whether you know something or nothing about cars, it's a matter of what you do and don't have knowledge or expertise on. Basically what I'm trying to say is comment on what you know don't just pull answers out of your ass to make a post.

The question at hand about running 87 in your TL, I just happen to know about it. As for Hadonekuh, he really doesn't get it. You can't just throw 91 or higher into the car and say it's ok. That's like saying 87 is ok. When actually they are all ok with the TL.

I will say it again though, if you think throwing 93 or higher in your car is ok and no different than 91, then your an idiot. If you're worried about doing damage, run strictly 91 octane and nothing else.

Actually 93 and 94 octane are quite important for high compression cars at low altitude.. :rolleyes:

if you're willing to invest the money in a TL, it deserves proper fuel---go premium 91+

agreed..


I owned a 09 TSX and the engine did ping/knock a lot because I used 87 octane every now and then.. Talking with the Acura dealer service they mentioned there is a knock sensor that has to adjust every time a lower grade fuel is used.. not sure if it was bull but I did see the charge he waved on my bill when I had to get it replaced.

"The world's largest engine company is telling you to use a certain octane for their premium brand's engine."


And they are also telling you it costs $135 to change a cabin filter. I know it's not the same thing, but the belief that the car company and the dealer will always tell you the best thing and they are your friend will cost you a lot of wasted money!

Get the fuck over yourself! People were saying long before you joined that these engines are not mod friendly and until a tune was available increases in power would be minimal. It's not like you're the first person on here to say that and have others disagree, so you can stop patting yourself on the back now (seen it multiple times already since those dynos were posted).

Also, have you ever been wrong in your fucking life? I ask because every occurence on AZ where that's the case leads to you backtracking and saying you meant to say xxx, or that it was a trolling attempt. I can't stand people that love to pound their chest and spout off non-stop, then don't have the balls to say they were wrong when that's the case.

My point is, they might know what they're talking about verses 'some guy' rambling about Lincoln motors.

If I was fuelling up at a Honda gas station I might agree with this but I don't think that's really the same at all especially when it's pretty well known that dealers overcharge for oem parts.

You kind of answered this yourself. The manufacture of the car is telling you to run premium. The dealer is the one telling you they want 135 to change a cabin filter. Apples vs oranges

I always use premium. The difference between mid grade and premium in one of the stations I go to is 0.14 cents/gal. It's very rare that I let my cars go below 1/4 tank so on avg usually 10 gals will top off my tank.

Obviously everyone is entitled to their opinion and can do as they please with their cars. But IMO for $1.40 more per fill up I am putting in premium..

I'm going to trust the Honda/Acura engineers on this one.

Also, I own and race a Corvette.... Octane level makes a huge difference in that car.

Hmmm just filled up for the first time and used the mid-grade stuff... will def switch to premium after reading these posts. Thanks.