BEAR-AvHistory

Problem with that is single income vs family income. Back in the 60's most women stayed home when they had kids, while today most are 2 earner households. Its also an issue of wants vs needs. I think Acura published figures that the target buyer income is in the low entry six figures. So if its say $120K then a $40K TL is not way out of line with the past.

The BMW 3 series median is $160K per year again pretty much in line historically.

BEAR-AvHistory

On buy/lease they run 50/50. That being said the credit decision process for a lease tends to be more rigorous because the lessee does not have an equity position in the car.

HeartTLs

iTrader: (5)

Me too. What trim is your TL? My 09' w/ tech took a few minutes to get warm when on "Hi", then eventually hot. My 12' w/ advanced get warm when dialed all the way up quickly and takes about a minute to get hot.

jim_c

The cost discussion can go either way. Cars are expensive in the absolute, but what matters is how they fit into one's budget.
And where one is on the path of life. I am at the stage where this (my 2010 TL) might possibly be the last car I ever buy. So may as well enjoy it. My personal feeling is that I can understand wanting a brand new vehicle but I won't do it again. My car cost $23,000 + tx with 36,000 miles on it so to me that was a pretty good use of my money. $35,000 for a new one (+13% tax in Canada), not so much.

My point above was obviously not to compare a phone to a car but to say that the technology changes so fast and if you want the newest and greatest tech you will be buying a new car every 2 years. Not a good use of your money.

HeartTLs

iTrader: (5)

Back on topic I saw 3 CLA's this weekend and noted a few things: Overall it looks great, very sporty/aggressive look to it. The stock wheels suck, not because of the design but because of the two tone. Why is Mercedes using such a large Tri star on a relatively small car, the thing is friggin HUGE!

Is the CLA suppose to compete with the 1 series BMW?

SeismicGuy

Mercedes finally figured out the formula some time ago. The larger the star on the front the more the vehicles were selling. Establish an identity and then flaunt it in your face! Anybody notice the "L" in Lexus models has also been growing a bit?

boe_d

One problem I have with the cost of the car that makes me wait longer between cars is the technology. Since for some reason, they don't make the infotainment/navi modular I pretty much want it to be bleeding edge. My car still runs nearly as well as when it was new over a decade ago. However, the navi is on its last leg. It seems a shame that I'd have to buy a 12 year old navi to replace it. They should make them like DVD players and TVs. The screen on my car is still fine. Why not plug in something about the size of a cell phone (since my cell phone works great as a GPS) and boom you have a NEW navi.

Glashub

I saw a CLA yesterday looking at it from the rear drivers side and I didn't like it. It's too slender and small for that body style from that angle and it didn't look upscale to me.

SeismicGuy

And give this man a cigar! The true measure of the continuing downward spiral of the quality of life here and the culture. A single-income household could live quite nicely thank you back a few decades ago (certainly when I was growing up). Possibly still possible to do so in some podunk area but NOT anymore in the major urban areas.

SeismicGuy

That was also basically the same angle where things started to fall apart for me except my view was about a 3/4 view from the rear on the passenger side. An then the full rear was even worse. I know the led lights or whatever are supposed to be all the rage but for some reason the effect on this car looked cheesy.

Glashub

^^^^^

Exactly.

BEAR-AvHistory

Crutchfield.com Did not get a Nav unit, have some Garmins, but upgraded the sound system 100% in the 1998 Ranger. Bluetooth/Sat radio/Ipod head unit, speakers & Sub woof. Did the same for the Xterra. Good pricing, not the cheapest, but the free custom to the car install kits are worth a million.

Typical Saturday afternoon install with basic hand tools.

g37guy01

Interesting, I got the Storm 2 the day it came out, 10/14/2009 and have no plans to rplace it until it dies. bluetooth is fully supported in every car I have tried it in.

weather

Mine is a 2012 Tech SH-AWD model.....and it doesn't warm up fast at all....in fact, my seats are most often warmed up by "natural gas" rather than battery power *LMAO*

HeartTLs

iTrader: (5)

^^

Hahaha, I agree that the heater on the tech package takes a bit longer to warm up. Be mindful how how many layers of clothing you have on as well. When members reported that the seat cushion warms up and the back as well, I thought my seat heater was damaged. Then I tried it without a jacket and realized I simply had on too many layers to feel it on my back whenever I felt the need to turn it on.

Pants/jeans + thermals + boxers are a lot of layers to quickly penetrate.

docboy

Totally agree. The new Lexus spindle grill, esp on their SUVs GX and LX models are HUGE, and in your face. Makes a statement alright.

The difference between the Lexus grills and Mercedes' star though, is the lack of chrome. Acura's grill is not only huge but has too bling-bling/chrome; hence the notion that many people are turned off by the grill, or the need to mod it/color match it. Acura needs to redesign their power plenum grill to minimize chrome.

The new NSX grill is good looking, aggressive, not chrome heavy, and can be the "face of Acura." It really needs to be on all Acura sedans and SUVs, and can be a draw for new and existing customers.

BEAR-AvHistory

Think its the heaters. Can't compare the 3G/4G never tried the 4G heaters but the 3G was the slowest/weakest of any I had. Heat in the current cars comes up quick, has 3 levels & can be felt through a leather B2 jacket. The Ford also has A/C seats which are very nice in the summer. Seems dumb that I could not get them on the BMW's

Devil Dog 21

Couldn't agree more. Take the NSX Grille and as much from the front end as possible and make that the theme for all other models.

Edward'TLS

That's why one should never smoke inside the car !

JM2010 SH-AWD

Agree. Saw one for the first time on the road yesterday. Not impressive. One might say ugly. Overdone, overwrought and over-emblemed.

Howard's

A friend of mine went the other day and brought home a new Kia Optima. Fully loaded, turbo, pretty nice car, awesome warranty...... He said he gave 35k+ for it and I said "geez, you could've bought a Benz for that!" He says yea right, so I prove it to him, next day he has one. Took the Kia back that his wife loved and got a CLA. When I asked why he did it he said, "because it a Benz!" I shook my head and smiled as his wife called him an idiot and walked off. This proves that status is the most important thing to some!

HeartTLs

iTrader: (5)

I'm not a fan of Korean makes, but man is he dense. At least someone in that household has some sense.

BEAR-AvHistory

Of course it is to some but for most I believe its just a natural progression as you move up in your working career. I think in one way I might be different from most here. I lived in the Federal housing Projects, Marion Gardens Jersey City, from 1945 to 1955. Anyone who actually had a car, very few, has a pre-WWII beater.

In 1955 we moved to a working class neighborhood & the cars changed to post war new & used. Mostly Fords & Chevys. I got married, had an Impala & around that time still in JC bought a Pontiac of which I had a few over the years. Time out for the draft & tracked vehicle mechanics school then back on the job with two cars ‘67 Vette & 70 Country Squire. Moved to the burbs & went through a Volvo wagon & on to a 1977 Coupe de Ville & so on. Each move up on the job tended to be accompanied by a more upscale car & occasionally a more upscale house.

The main point is as this was happening to me my car or cars never were much different in nameplate status than my neighbors. As people move into nicer houses the driveways & garages tended to all have similar price level cars since there was pretty much parity in incomes. Most people like nice stuff. NICE is very hard to define but typically nice costs more.

When one of my daughters asked help in looking at garden apartment I will admit to driving the parking lots to check out the cars. Felt she would be safer in a complex with small MB’s & BMW’s than one with older cars. If that makes me a bad guy then I am a bad guy, but I have been there, done that, got the tee shirt & survived the Projects

SeismicGuy

Very true which is why Model T started offering colors other than black after a while. It is human nature to want to demonstrate that you have succeeded more than the next guy. Whether this is accomplished by buying in a better neighborhood, buying a bigger house, getting a Rolex watch, getting the Bentley, etc. it is no difference. So certain cars are (justifiably or not) lauded as some pinnacle of achievement and it is just natural progression to start looking at cars like BMW or MB as you get more "successful". I can still remember the day many years ago when I chose to look at getting a BMW 325 (back in 1986). When I sat down with the salesman he offered his hand in congratulations saying something to the effect "welcome to being successful" as if I just joined some secret club. It was pretty distasteful but I still ended up with the BMW (first and probably last, by the way).

g37guy01

Unless you are giving a car away, you cannot force your values on someone else. People buy for their reasons, not yours; and your rational as it relates to cars is no more valid or invalid than your friends.

For 35K a Kia wouldn't have been my first choice either.

Howard's

Let me clarify, I was not forcing anything on anyone. Simply stated that he spent a lot of money on a Kia. He didn't believe a new MB could be had at that price. He made his own adult decision to get one. I was only stating that some people are that simple and dense, his "status" from owning a MB was more important than his wife's happiness. I even asked him if she liked it and he said not really. So yes. You'rd right, he did buy for his reasons and not mine. Hope everyone is on the same page now. Sorry for the confusion.

docboy

IMHO I wouldn't be so quick to judge.

As Bear had mentioned, there may be people who drive Accords and Civics who call Acura drivers "dense" and "status driven" as well. And there could be those who drive $500 Geo Metros call Accord/Camry drivers badge snobs.

It may be true that those drive Benz or have Gucci bags are status driven, but it's what makes them happy. I suspect there are those who drive Acuras who are also status driven (possibly to a lesser degree due to target demographics, who knows).

As long as there is mutual respect for those who own and those who don't own said items, nothing wrong with buying what you want.

Life is short, we work hard for our money and we certainly can't take it with us. If that guy who now has a Benz instead of Kia is happy, who are we to argue?

Howard's

As I said before, he is a friend. We all have friends that don't make the smartest choices. My point is, he was 100% satisfied with the Kia and, HIS WIFE WAS HAPPY! He is not a "car guy". He don't know the first thing about one. He only got one because it was a way to show off. Basically it feeds into the statement made about the CLA being bad for Acura. Simply stating that I know for a fact, there is one person that bit on the MB bait.....

SeismicGuy

And as I posted earlier I know another couple who drank the kool-aid (chose a C250 rather than getting their fourth or fifth Lexus ES). STRICTLY due to the perception of achieving the MB (for about the same price as the ES) and really nothing else.

HeartTLs

iTrader: (5)

What I want to know is who does your neighbor and those defending his purchase think he's fooling; guy with bargain basement benz > loaded kia? The uniformed, the "status" shopper, housewives? I know what a CLA cost, am I or will others be blinded by the badge over the price and target demographic? Reminds me of high schoolers with Gucci key chains because they want to sport the brand and flaunt. If you can't afford the wallet/handbag, don't front. Does that mean the CLA is a bad buy? Maybe, but only if your reason for buying is exclusively for the badge, which in my imo is nonexistent on that model.

SeismicGuy

Yes! You should have heard the rationalizations our friends used to talk themselves into the C250--"the ES was too low in the front and she was afraid of scuffing curbs" and "the ES was really too big for what they now needed but the IS was too small". In the end they at least did admit that "for the same price as the ES they could get the Benz"--end of story and all that really matters. As an aside the husband loved the Genesis and there were some wealthy folks at his golf club who had these but, for the money, it is easier to rationalize getting a higher end German car than an emerging Korean one.

Howard's

Sad but true.... The person who "drinks the kool-aid" or "bites the bait" will always think they have the world fooled.....

winstrolvtec

All good points as there is a little give and take but the above is a prime example of what drives some majority of sales in these top selling luxury brands. Sure it happens in Acura and used to more but look at the numbers and data today.

These entry (and now also below entry) vehicles are making up 30%-50% of the major brands total sales and they sell them at medium to low equipment and price points. The majority doesn't care about the bigger motor or cutting edge tech or all the available fancy features because they don't opt for them and many don't know what wheels power the car or it's not at the forefront of the buying decision.

That's all the stuff for the smaller group of car people or the enthusiasts like us while the general buying population actually foregoes that stuff just to get into the badge or it's the cheapest -insert brand name - here that they can afford but they won't tell you that, they will say, "I have/drive a - insert -" as if they know something you don't or have something so much better than common folk, although fairly common itself, or somehow they are in a better financial position than others, etc.

Fact is if one has a few thousand to put down and can budget $500 (give or take) to spend on a car payment, anyone can "afford" an upwards of a $50k car nowadays. To create the idea of what that spread looks like one could finance a top of the line Accord vs lease a top of the line C class or low E class. IMO the reality is a lot different than what these folks think it is but maybe it is just me. It seems the driving force is what the car represents of them to others. If it's affordable enough to get into, generally accepted and popular, including styling and it has a brand's cache, people will buy it.

Now I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with the car or the choice or the people, a bit of it is that it amazes me how little involvement it can take for some to make a purchasing decision on such a large investment and how much of it is not actually about the car itself and how it relates to others but more importantly (as others have pointed out), how they are attempting to fool folks, again those who don't know the ins and outs, the nuts and bolts, finance, and how cars generally relate and compare. To me, a brand's cache is not built on those cars but on the cars that most people will not be able to "get into", most can't touch them. As an aside, notice Acura does not really have any of those anymore since the NSX was killed.

I think there are number of better buys than what a lot of these people reach to get and for the wrong reasons IMO. To me there is no substantial difference in that loaded Kia vs the starting CLA in terms of status and perception even in terms of the car itself, there are many ways in which the KIA is a better car and the opposite is true too but to most that is not the case or does not apply for some reason, many wouldn't accept it if one tried to suggest otherwise.

And then there are those who truly do like the product and buy it for what it is and what it does for them, and even though it applies, not paying much attention to this other stuff. Usually those who can afford the higher priced one and can personally afford a more expensive vehicle but don't feel they have to reach for "anything" or that they are "buying anything" more than the car itself. Sure they is some grey area here too but usually you can spot the difference.

HeartTLs

iTrader: (5)

^^^

The End. Well said.

BEAR-AvHistory

I think the whole "Fooling People" is nonsense. There will always be people who buy over their heads but repos generally predominate in Ford & Chevy financing.

Seems like once again it pleases some people here to create issues when someone has a premium brand car. Its always this or that with the same handful of people. They are stupid, they can’t drive, they can’t use the Nav, they are just showing off. Its never that people buy what is attractive to their eye and can afford. They also never seem to notice that most people moving on in car land from Acura tend to buy more upscale products. Did they just go from being the smartest people in the room to some grasping dumb wannaBe?

The exact same people have a cow if its said that an Acura is a highly modified Accord. It has an Accord floor pan, motor, transmission (in the case of the FWD) & so on down the line into the hidden electronics etc. Check out a wrecking yard part commonality chart some day. What's the problem with this if its not a status thing? I expect more than a few posts saying its not even though they can’t build a new Acura till the new Accord comes out.There is plenty of FWD vs. AWD threads in the pecking order as well as Base VS. Type S in the old 3 series.

To say its all about performance on the Acura sites & we are above it all when it comes to status is just a joke IMHO. Could be the root issue is Acura has never achieved the level of status that people were sold on, about finally getting entry into tier one.

HeartTLs

iTrader: (5)

Sounds like you have it all figured out, enlighten me/us as to what's premium about the CLA.

Personally if given the option of loaded Kia vs CLA, I'd get an accord, if I wanted something more luxurious and 35k was my budget I'd go used. I don't think you're going to find many people on this side of the forum bashing the latest accord, we've cross shopped it with the 4G with members giving opinions positive/negative feedback on both. If you're going to base all your assumptions on AZ'ers from your past experience in the 3G sub forum, the least you could do post your comments there so they can defend themselves.

BEAR-AvHistory

Its an entry level car in a premium brand. Marketing plan would be to get people in & move them up as they move up & buy new cars. You need to start someplace. Audi & BMW have entry level lines, I have one. The TL was supposed to be an entry level lux car with people move up to the RL. Problem was the plan did not work, TL sales were not there, the top of the line RL tanked. Acura & Honda execs said so & backed out of the chase for tier one.

BTW it was Acura execs who defined tire one & who was in it & who their targets were. Its unfortunate that the plan fell on its butt because competition is good for everybody. Now competition is moving down market & will continue to negatively impact TL sales which are a bit over a 1000 a month now.

As for Accord vs a TL buy do a search.

Howard's

This has nothing to do with whether they are buying more than they can afford, it's about people choosing a bare bones Benz over another quality competitor, simply because it has more "status power" than their Acura, Kia, Honda, etc.

Booya4139

I always think the 'C' in C-Class stands for 'Cheap Class'.... The C series never impressed me.

Similar to seeing those heinous BMW 318 hatchbacks, or the 325's or 323s...

I had an SL500 that fell apart on me while i didn't really make enough in my early 20's to keep it up. Fun car while it lasted and taught me a number of valuble life lessons.

A car is a series of inter-related components. Car people understand that, just as a computer can be seen the same way. The unwashed masses may simply see a Dell vs a gateway etc... But knowledgeable people understand the nuances that really differentiate. Unknowlegable people rely on the marketing messaging and related emotions.

Booya4139

I bought my TL because it is an accord wearing a suit. Thats a big time positive for me. I bought a FWD because its more efficient, has plenty of power, and i preferred the ride in the FWD.

I wanted reliable, nice interior car with a naturally aspirated engine with acceptable power and acceptable efficiency. Pretty much came down to a G37 and the TL. Looked at the genesis too fairly hard.

I am predisposed to liking hondas after a wonderful experience with an 08 Civic Si....