windycityacura

hi,
i'm looking to buy a new TL within the next month and had some questions. i'll be going to a dealer this wknd to test drive both.

i was wondering if the base and sh-awd REALLY drive differently, under normal driving conditions. i'll be doing mostly Chicago suburb driving for commutes.

and is there a lot of noticeable mpg difference, under same driving conditions?

i guess, my question comes down to whether it's really worth the few extra thousand $ for sh-awd or should i just go get the base and save a few thousand $? (i realize it's gonna come down to which i like by test driving both but i wanted to see if other members went thru the same thing)

thank you in advance.

007Acura

depends on what you value most

defiantly test drive the fwd first then the awd and compare...

ss284

I ended up going base and not regretting it. The AWD system is nice, but in normal driving, you really don't get to use it that much.

andrec8513

Do you get much snow where you live? If yes I say the AWD, if no, then base.

jasonwdp10

I've owned the SHAWD and the Base model. I prefer the Base's softer, more quiet and refined ride over the SHAWD's sporty ride.

What the Base lacks in sportiness, it makes up for it in improved NVH and ride quality, and vice versa.

when test driving the cars, you should first drive the base, then the SHAWD. Then ask yourself if it feels like you're driving a car that's $4,000 more expensive. Hope that helps!

windycityacura

what is NVH? sorry.........

jasonwdp10

noise, vibration, harshness

Some manufacturers (like honda/acura, bmw, audi, infiniti) allow a certain level of NVH into their vehicles, adding to the sportiness. Others (like lexus, mercedes benz), quell almost all NVH making the interior of the car much quieter, like a luxury cruiser.

It just depends on how much NVH you like

john94si

I just bought 3 days ago myself.
I was very close to a sh-awd, they were offering me a great deal on it but i decided for about $85 less per month the TL Tech with 18's was what i wanted. PLUS i preferred the base with 18's the gunmetal 5 stars loosk great.

I am happy with it so far but coming from a BMW 135i this is a very different car.

But whichever you get please get TECH is alot of stuff for the money and a great audio system for stock.

KeithL

Test drive them both, but drive the base FWD first. Then take the AWD out, but drive it on some curvy roads and then over bumpy roads and decide. If you like firm ride with road feel and handling you'll love the AWD, if you want something that is more comfortable ride (not too mushy) that still drives good you'll liek the FWD. But if you look at the other threads like this you'll get all kinds of opinions, from the AWD is hard and punishing to the FWD is floaty and mushy. I personally tend to lean toward the FWD is floaty and mushy and loved the AWD ride. I loved how the AWD could be thrown into turns and felt like glue! That being said I drove my AWD on mostly nice roads here in ATL, but if I were back in NYC I don't think I would have opted for the AWD. I was so apolied by the AWD that my new M37 Sport feels a tad mushy to me.

hectic1

I was faced with the same decision a couple weeks ago and I ended up with the TL SH-AWD. I bought it from McGrath Acura in Westmont.

When you factor in the winters in Chicago and the fact that the residual on the car is going to be a couple grand higher when you go to sell the difference in the price wasn't a large factor for me. I liked the sportier feel of the SH-AWD compared to the base TL. When I got on both of them the base TL exhibited a fair amount of torque steer while with the SH-AWD it was nonexistant! I also liked the feel of the additional bolster support and the better quality leather on the SH-AWD. As far as gas mileage I would guess that you are going to see a mile or two per gallon better fuel economy with the base vs the SH-AWD based on the post I have seen on the site...so an additional 20-30 miles a tank.

Good luck with your decision!

eazy

iTrader: (8)

When I first got the base, I wished I had gotten the SH-AWD. But after driving it more and after a few mods I love my car. Its personal preference really. If you want a manual, SH is the only way to go.

jasonwdp10

The quality of leather depends on whether or not the car has tech package.

Tech = milano leather (w/ perforated seats)
Non-Tech = normal leather.

The SHAWD, Base, have the same quality leather depending on package.

As for gas mileage, expect an extra 40-50 miles per tank from the base over the SHAWD.

Tyresian

Yeah, to me, if you're not getting the tech package or AWD... Might as well just some money and get a V6 Accord, heck, you can get there GPS and everything loaded and still save money. Or get the V6 TSX, basically the same thing. Plus then you don't need premium fuel. Overall cost of ownership is much lower. AND you can get a Coupe.

But the Tech, with the nice leather (huge selling point for me, I love the leather it comes with), GPS, backup camera, and very nice sound system is a great seller.

And SH-AWD... As others said, go drive on some curvy roads, or better yet, drive FAST around those curves and you appreciate it. We have a couple ramps that change highways and they are huge turns with a 35 MPH caution for a 65 highway. I took one the other day, slowing down before the ramp, and then accelerating on it, feels great, and incredibly smooth and in control.

I do wish there was less cheap plastic in the car... That really makes me feel like I'm still just driving a very expensive Accord. Which isn't a terrible thing, I like the Accord, BUT I'm paying a lot more. And while I love the car, it really should have something better than the cheap plastic. And unlike some, I do like the aluminum accents, but wish they were a darker gunmetal or carbon fiber like I had in my 3G.

But yeah on the leather... the base model's leather SUCKS... I had a base model as a loaner when I got my sport grill installed and that car... Felt like such a huge step down, even from my 3G TL. It did seem very durable, but that's not luxury. I'm very curious about what the Accord leather is like. Wonder if it's the same as the Base TL or if it's better?

Tyresian

Also could use a V8 with the SH-AWD... Throw in an LS2... lol... Come on the cheaper old Camaros, Firebirds, and GTOs had them. And then the G8 had whatever the newer variation was. Too bad they didn't have an AWD G8 and keep Pontiac around .

windycityacura

thanks for all the input guys. it's all good. i guess i'll find out which one like...soon. i like it firm yet not too firm. i've had Lexuses & MBs but they were too quiet and zero fun to drive. enjoyed having bmws though (gives you so much 'feel'). but i'm getting the urge to go back to Acura(have had 96 2.5TL premium and 00 RL). plus, my first car was a 87 Accord LX in 5 speed, carburator. and i've had 01 Prelude SH as well. i love Honda products.

but, as much as i like to drive, i still have to drive my two kids (soon to be 6 and 7 years old) to school each morning (beginning again in late August) and want to enjoy drinking a cup of coffee without spilling all over my white dress shirt/tie.. so we shall see.........

windycityacura

according to Edmunds.com, premium perforated seats come with SH-AWD, not with Tech pkg...

jasonwdp10

Well according to Acura.com:
"Soft, Perforated Milano Premium Leather seating surfaces are included with the Technology Package."

"TL SH-AWD has high-performance seats with more aggressive side-bolstering."

And being the owner of Both a Base Tech and the late SHAWD Tech, I can assure you my base w/ Tech has perforated milano leather seats.

What you're describing is the extra bolster support that the SHAWD seats have...

JM2010 SH-AWD

You won't spill your coffee in the AWD. The overall feel of the car is tighter, more responsive and more of a driver's car. The SH-AWD is just amazing in its ability to keep the car going EXACTLY where you point it, with no muss, no fuss. I think you'll find the FWD to be more like your MBs and Lexi; the AWD is definitely firmer, with a more lively feel than most of those brands' cars. Good luck with your decision.

windycityacura

you're right! i guess, Edmunds.com is wrong then...thanks for the heads up!

"The TL SH-AWD adds all-wheel drive, a more powerful engine, 18-inch alloy wheels, upgraded brakes, hill start assist, more aggressively bolstered front seats, upgraded metallic trim and premium perforated leather upholstery.
The optional Technology package is available on both trims and adds a hard-drive-based navigation system with voice recognition, real-time traffic, real-time weather forecasts, a GPS-linked and solar-sensing adaptive climate control system, keyless ignition/entry, a rear spoiler, rearview camera and a 10-speaker Panasonic/ELS surround-sound system with 12.7GB of digital music storage. Optional 19-inch wheels with high-performance summer tires are available, but only on SH-AWD models." Edmunds.com

PsychDoc

Having driven any number of Lexus' and M-B's I can assure you that the FWD TL rides a lot harder than either of them. The AWD car is absolutely jarring on all but the smoothest roads. The FWD car rides VERY firmly. Anyone that calls it spongy or floaty has no idea what they're talking about. I was driving in my nephew's BMW 328i a few days ago and both my wife and I commented how well it handled potholes and road irregularities compared to our TL. Keep in mind that we were comparing the BMW to the FWD car. Unless you absolutely NEED the AWD for lots of snow where you live I think it's a nobrainer to go with the FWD car. You'll get 3-4 more MPG and it's a lot quieter inside to boot.

JM2010 SH-AWD

^
Obviously, these are subjective calls. I generally prefer cars on the firmer side of the comfort/handling equation, but there's no way I'd ever call my AWD "jarring."

The AWD handles snow and rain fine, but the real benefit it's designed to deliver is superb dry weather handling. As the mag reviewers and owners here all seem to agree, it hits that metric beautifully. But if that quality isn't important to you, by all means I'd suggest the FWD (with Tech) and you'll save yourself a tidy sum.

jasonwdp10

I think we should see it from a "typical consumers" standard. All acuras are firm, that's just the way they are. Thats also why cars like the TSX, TL SHAWD, RDX get dinged for the way they ride (too firm).

If you're accustomed to any sporty car, then Acura's will be either too soft or just right.

I've driven hondas my whole life so i'm used to the firmness. However, having driven loads of other cars from my family/friends since my first honda, I must say there are much comfier and better riding cars around. Acura/Honda, to me, will always be on the firm side.

TandooriChicken

Simply comes down to your preference... SH-AWD is faster, handles better under "sporty" driving, and has the optional manual transmission (which should be mandatory).

As someone who enjoys driving for the dynamic experience, I would not buy ANY front-wheel drive car (even the SH-AWD is a little front-drivey for me, but I haven't been able to make it matter enough to cause problems because the torque-vectoring kicks in so sweetly and soon), nor ANY car with an automatic transmission unless it could deliver rev-matched on-demand downshifts in less than 500 msec (I'm no F1 driver, but I HATE feeling like I am waiting for the tranny). TL wasn't even on my list until they introduced the 6-speed manual. I drive my kids around in it all the time and they love it... as far as NVH goes, that's why I have aftermarket Bilstein fat asscheeks!!!

My other car is a stripped '91 Jetta with a snowmobile engine and a roll cage, though, so I may not be the best person to ask.

PsychDoc

Ah, no!

Numerous auto magazines have tested the FWD and AWD cars and most have found the FWD to be at least the equal of the AWD car. Some have found it to be a few tenths faster to 60 and in the quarter mile. The 25 extra hp of the AWD car are more than offset by the added weight and drivetrain losses of the AWD system.

winstrolvtec

But the added traction and shorter gearing still give the SH a slight edge IMO. The SH auto has tested even faster than the auto 3G TLS. I am not saying it's officially faster than that TL, it makes perfect sense that they would be nearly identical at least as far as 1/4 mile speeds go but the 4G FWD is obviously a little slower than the previous TLS.

JM2010 SH-AWD

Need to be sure we're comparing apples to apples here. I believe quickest TL-S time with the 6MT was about 5.5 in 0-60.

TL SH-AWD with 6MT is 5.2.

Don't know about an auto to auto comparison. That would be interesting to see, if anyone has the info (both TL-S 5A and 4G FWD 5A vs. 4G SH-AWD 5A).

jasonwdp10

I've owned both but (obviously) could not drag them.

From a stop, I think the SHAWD is faster. Sometimes when i want to overtake someone in the other lane (at a stop light for example), the base model will slip a bit before taking off. The SHAWD did not have that problem.

However, on a roll, the base seems like it moves faster, torque seems to come earlier. Just the feeling though, i haven't measured either of them.

TandooriChicken

If you are so convinced the FWD is as fast as the SH-AWD, post some links. Apart from Edmunds' ridiculous 6.7 for the SH-AWD 0-60, I am not sure what numbers you could be thinking of. I have had no difficulty replicating sub-5.5 0-60s in my SH-AWD 6MT. Will an FWD variant do the same? I have driven the TSX V6 (same engine and tranny as the base TL, about 100 pounds lighter) on the strip and the track and have not gotten below 5.8 (and that's with a high-speed, no-spin launch [which admittedly I cannot achieve in that car consistently], which should be expected to cancel out most of the advantage from the SH-AWD's traction edge and better tires). Nonetheless, you are certainly free to try to prove your somewhat counterintuitive claim. (As an aside, you assume I was referring to straight-line acceleration, which I wasn't. But I still doubt you're right, even about that.)

I am not aware of any direct 5AT-to-5AT comparison. My intended comparison was between the FWD 5AT ("base") and the SH-AWD 6MT with high-performance tire package. Now you may say, "Hey, those are options that aren't available on the FWD car!" To which I would respond: "Two more good reasons to get the SH-AWD!"

princelybug

iTrader: (16)

If I had the choice, this wouldn't even be a dilemma. SH-AWD.

KeithL

Dude no reason to infer insult on people for stating their opinion. If the AWD was so jarring and such they would not be selling any. Coming from a Type-S the FWD IMO was most defiently softy and floaty and had far more roll and plow, yes the AWD was firmer than the Type-S, but it also soaked up the bumps better. It is your opinion that the AWD is jarring and that may not be shared by eveyone, particularly those of use that own or owned AWD models. Some of us want road feel and feedback even at the level the AWD provides it. I actually find my M37 Sport soft and floaty compared to the SH-AWD and wish Infiniti woudl have stiffened up this suspoension a bit more, but they got railed for the firm ride of the previous gen M Sport that they softened this up a bit.

andrec8513

We just picked up our TL-SHAWD yesterday and my wife commented on how nice it rides. Come from a SUV and then call me about firm rides!

compewterbleu

Good pick up...color, features...pictures? LOL

Pete2010

I hate soft floaty rides, and the FWD is quite floaty. I want to feel the road. If I wanted to be totally disconnected from driving I would have bought a Lexus instead.

kazh

Regardless of your final choice, my recommendation would be, that whatever you do, do it quick. With the 0.9%/60 deal and the end of the 2010 model year, all the dealers in my area are running out of cars. You may not get the color and spec of your choice. Also with the 2011 coming in soon, you will for sure not get the same level of discounts currently offered.

I chose the SH-AWD TECH in CBP with 19" wheels. Coming from a S2000 the transition was excellent. Ride is smoother and more comfortable than the S2k and I now have practical cup holders that I can use without blocking the gear stick! However, I could see (or feel) why some people may consider the ride to be hard if your current car is something more conventional. If you share this concern, then for sure stick with the 18" and stay away from the 19". And to echo the other comments here that the FWD has a softer ride compared to the AWD. Especially here in the Bay Area, where the freeways are in a really bad shape. In the AWD, I can feel the road surface. Also for you being in Chicago area where you do experience real winters, I would strongly suggest the AWD. The SH-AWD has always performed well in snow in our MDX when we are up in Lake Tahoe.

Well good hunting on the TL. Regardless of your final choice, I am sure you will enjoy the new TL.

windycityacura

thank you so much guys, all your opinions are appreciated. currently i'm driving a 06 Lexus GS300 AWD. it's nice and firm, yet not harsh. we also have 07 MB R500 AWD. it's our family car and my wife drives it for hauling kids. the MB is great for trips and it is very nice but i don't enjoy driving it.

anyways, i was in an accident two weeks ago with the GS and the car's being repaired for left front damage. i'll get it back around mid-Aug and most likely i'll trade it in. i love cars but always have bought them used in excellent conditions and kept them for a year to two since i get bored fast and to minimize loss. i've been pretty good so far with that. the only new car we've bought was the 04 Odyssey when we had kids and knew that we'd need it for a long time(had them for 5 yrs). but this time, i'm going to buy something new for myself as my 40th b-day(in late Aug.). i've gotten some quotes and with the 0.9% financing, it's a deal i can't pass up.

just for fun, i'm listing the cars i've had so far.

1987 Honda Accord LX, 5 speed,
1998 Nissan Altima GXE, Auto
1996 Acura 2.5TL Premium, Auto
2000 Acura RL, Silver/Black, Auto
1997 Lexus LX450, Auto
2004 Honda Odyssey EX-L
2001 Honda Prelude SH, 5 speed
2000 BMW 740i, Sport Package
2005 Scion tC, Auto
2003 BMW X5 3.0, Auto
2002 BMW 525I, Sport, Auto
2006 Lexus GS300 AWD, Auto
2007 Mercedes Benz R500 4MATIC, Auto

kazh

With your car history, I am sure you will like the AWD!! If you get a chance, take the HPT out for a spin too. You may like that more if you want the 'sport' feel... Or buy the AWD TECH with the 18" for winter use and get the 19" for the summer!

ostrich

Keith, I am so surprised to hear that the M37 is softer than the TL SH-AWD! I love my TL SH-AWD and while I find the ride to be on the firmer side, I do not find it too harsh. On the other hand, when I test drove the G37xS, I found it a bit too harsh for my liking and I think that as a daily driver, it will be too much for me. That's why I expected that the new M37 to be like that too! Thanks for the info.

I do remember that when I had a FWD 4G TL as a loaner before, it was definitely less firm than the SH-AWD. I personally prefer the SH-AWD's firmer ride.

andrec8513

Pallaidium with Ebony. Body Side moldings and splash guards SH-AWD base. Pics this weekend after I clay it and put the NXT wax on it...I havent had a chance to take a pic yet!

KeithL

The G37S is a different beast, I believe they the G is much more sporty in genral than the M37. When I went for the M I first drove G37 then M37 found the base G was sportier than the base M, if you were to rank them in soft to hard I would go M37 > G37 > M37S > G37S
I also believe the AWD versions of the G and M have slightly different suspensions changing the ride dynamics further. I beleiv emost reviews i have read about the G and M have mentioned that the non AWD Infiniti's ride better in general.

The M37 Sport is actually an interesting ride dynamic. They clearly went for the "cruiser" ride firt then the sporty after that. The M37 weighs as much as a SH-AWD TL, but I feel like the M37 center of gravity is higher. Don;t get me wrong the M37S sticks well, just does nto feel as secure as the SH-AWD did, but then some of that is the illusion that the seats impose, the SH-AWD seats basically sucked you in and fit like a glove not letting you move so when the car leaned into a turn you did not, the M37 Sport seats are not even close to the TL base seats for support so when you throw the M into a turn hard your body leans thus making you feel like the car is not sticking as well since you have to work to counteract the forces of you being moved from the seat. I like to compare them this way, the SH-AWD TL was far more fun to drive, the M37S is more pleasurable to drive.

compewterbleu

Cool, looking forward to seeing those pictures. I hope you have as much fun driving yours as I do mine.