Honda/Acura sales for 2008
01-09-2009, 09:03 PM
#81
Low gas prices have collapsed Prius and Honda hybrid sales but not of Diesel.
70% of new Jetta in Canada are diesel now. So it is just beginning. US will simply follow what rest of the world is already doing.
http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/200...autosales.html
There were some exceptions to the downward trend, as Volkswagen sales grew by 82.5 per cent for the month, with DesRosiers pointing to their new diesel products. He said Suzuki and Subaru were up 31.6 per cent and 16 per cent, respectively
There were some exceptions to the downward trend, as Volkswagen sales grew by 82.5 per cent for the month, with DesRosiers pointing to their new diesel products. He said Suzuki and Subaru were up 31.6 per cent and 16 per cent, respectively
Current diesel offerings are not powerfull enough.
BMW has new 335D sedan starting at $44K. 6speed Auto/265bhp. It is faster than 3.7L TL-SH-AWD. with 40% better fuel economy. with necessary packages for around $50K.
http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...n/Default.aspx
01-09-2009, 09:36 PM
#82
how does the price of diesel compare to gas in Canada?
The 335D is only about a 1/2 sec slower to 60 than the 335i (both are twin turbos)
The 335D is only about a 1/2 sec slower to 60 than the 335i (both are twin turbos)
01-09-2009, 09:52 PM
#83
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When governments tax gas more than diesel people will buy diesel. Fortunately, this situation isn't true in the US so I disagree. Also, diesel prices will remain higher because there are few diesel refineries in the US. In fact, this country exports diesel and imports gas.
01-09-2009, 10:25 PM
#84
In edmunds test 335d achieves 32mpg while 335I is at 21/22mpg. So it is 45% more fuel efficient. TL SH-AWD is less than 19mpg on edmunds.
It comes with standard auto and there is i think federal tax credit. So price difference is minimal.
http://blogs.edmunds.com/strategies/...er-than-i.html
Weekly Top 3: 2009 BMW 335d -- Why "d" Is Better Than "i"
Track tests say the 335i is quicker to 60 mph by more than half a second (low fives versus 5.9 for the 335d), but I'll take the sledgehammer surge of 425 dawdler-dispatching lb-ft any day.
Weekly Top 3: 2009 BMW 335d -- Why "d" Is Better Than "i"
Track tests say the 335i is quicker to 60 mph by more than half a second (low fives versus 5.9 for the 335d), but I'll take the sledgehammer surge of 425 dawdler-dispatching lb-ft any day.
In 335D u can maintain 120mph @3000rpm. red line is at 5000 rpm. So plenty of excess power for fast efficient cruise.
http://www.examiner.com/x-244-Automo...pic2124-diesel
As a matter of fact, with the windows up, the driver is hard pressed
to tell this car from the gasoline version.
As a matter of fact, with the windows up, the driver is hard pressed
to tell this car from the gasoline version.
01-10-2009, 06:23 AM
#87
AZ Community Team
Thread Starter
No it depends heavily on the vehicle. A former boss had two Audi 5000 diesels which he bought used since they were ~1/2 price of the equivalent used gasoline Audi 5000 (which were already depressed with Audi's reputation at the time (early 1990's). Same was also true for older VW diesels. Also true for MB turbo diesels withe the honeycome particulate filter (1990's) which had alot of problems with damaged turbo's. Probably not true for non-particulate filter MB diesels which have a good reputation in the US.
Currently a majority of modern US full size pickups with diesels command higher used prices than their gasoline equivalents, diesels being sought after for mostly construction work (where diesel fuel is readily available) and lower operating costs. On the car front I'd have to check Edmunds and see, the US is a very finicky diesel market so it's difficult to tell.
The US previously allowed diesel engines easier emission limits which in the last decade have been dramatically tighted, but technology from Bosch and others have made controling emissions easier. Also the EPA tightening of the sulfur content in US diesel fuel has made the emissions easier. From what I've read the current Euro-diesels still have to be slightly moded or tuned to meet US levels.
Currently a majority of modern US full size pickups with diesels command higher used prices than their gasoline equivalents, diesels being sought after for mostly construction work (where diesel fuel is readily available) and lower operating costs. On the car front I'd have to check Edmunds and see, the US is a very finicky diesel market so it's difficult to tell.
The US previously allowed diesel engines easier emission limits which in the last decade have been dramatically tighted, but technology from Bosch and others have made controling emissions easier. Also the EPA tightening of the sulfur content in US diesel fuel has made the emissions easier. From what I've read the current Euro-diesels still have to be slightly moded or tuned to meet US levels.
01-10-2009, 07:31 AM
#88
AZ Community Team
Thread Starter
Looking at the actual 2008 sales numbers what's interesting from the Honda/Acura numbers is that Honda/Acura truck sales (including Odyssey) now account for ~39% of total. Pretty remarkable considering the first Honda produced truck (CRV) only came out in 1996.
The mainstream Honda products Accord/Civic (-5.3%/+2.1% change respectively for the 07->08 sales numbers) have held OK for the 2008 year and were supplimented as well by the CRV. The CRV has really developed into a decent product line for Honda. The Fit is also starting to work into as well. IMO keeping a decent mainsteam product line is important to Honda since alot of their buyers are repeat and offering a decent productline to followup as a buyer habits change ( marraige, family, retire,...).
Also the Odyssey and Pilot have contributed alot as well. The Element and Ridgeline have not been as successful, timing and marketing seem to have hurt them as well. The reason Honda built the Ridgeline was because in their marketing surveys they discoverd alot of Accord/Civic owners also owned pickup trucks (mostly US) and felt that brand loyalty would work well for a "soft" pickup.
The Acura numbers are not as good and look like the area where the most work is needed. The TSX has turned into a decent mainstream product line, the RL has still struggled despite getting decent reviews/comparisons and having cutting edge technology. The 3G was a great product but I feel Acura moved the price up too much on the 4G TL. Also I'd be more interested if teh 5G TL was RWD instead of SH-AWD TL. None the less the TL has worked out well for 2G and 3G so hopfully with some MMC changes the styling will get the 4G back on track. I think having the TSX/TL/RL line makes sense as a product roadmap (much better than the RSX/TL even thought I loved the RSX).
If Acura really wants to get to their tier 1 status, IMO then the V8 and RWD platform design/development should really move forward. Using the J series motor mounted longitutally in a RWD application should work very well. Honda truely proved themselves with RWD applications with the S2000 which was a decent sales numbers and excellent reviews.
Financially it will probably more difficult since operations and parts commonality will be more difficult for Honda FWD and Acura RWD lines. Acura has done separate platforms before (2G Legend, 1G TL, NSX) but financially they cost more as the Honda board is well aware. But to me, to truely compete with North America tier-1 MB/BMW/Lexus it should be RWD.
FWIW, the list price of my 1989 Legend LS was ~$29K, compare that to the ~$33K of my 2005 TL. Two Acura's I've owned and are similar in size. If you account for inflation that $29K would be $45K in 2005. Pretty amazing what technology costs, operations research and parts bin engineering can achieve.
The mainstream Honda products Accord/Civic (-5.3%/+2.1% change respectively for the 07->08 sales numbers) have held OK for the 2008 year and were supplimented as well by the CRV. The CRV has really developed into a decent product line for Honda. The Fit is also starting to work into as well. IMO keeping a decent mainsteam product line is important to Honda since alot of their buyers are repeat and offering a decent productline to followup as a buyer habits change ( marraige, family, retire,...).
Also the Odyssey and Pilot have contributed alot as well. The Element and Ridgeline have not been as successful, timing and marketing seem to have hurt them as well. The reason Honda built the Ridgeline was because in their marketing surveys they discoverd alot of Accord/Civic owners also owned pickup trucks (mostly US) and felt that brand loyalty would work well for a "soft" pickup.
The Acura numbers are not as good and look like the area where the most work is needed. The TSX has turned into a decent mainstream product line, the RL has still struggled despite getting decent reviews/comparisons and having cutting edge technology. The 3G was a great product but I feel Acura moved the price up too much on the 4G TL. Also I'd be more interested if teh 5G TL was RWD instead of SH-AWD TL. None the less the TL has worked out well for 2G and 3G so hopfully with some MMC changes the styling will get the 4G back on track. I think having the TSX/TL/RL line makes sense as a product roadmap (much better than the RSX/TL even thought I loved the RSX).
If Acura really wants to get to their tier 1 status, IMO then the V8 and RWD platform design/development should really move forward. Using the J series motor mounted longitutally in a RWD application should work very well. Honda truely proved themselves with RWD applications with the S2000 which was a decent sales numbers and excellent reviews.
Financially it will probably more difficult since operations and parts commonality will be more difficult for Honda FWD and Acura RWD lines. Acura has done separate platforms before (2G Legend, 1G TL, NSX) but financially they cost more as the Honda board is well aware. But to me, to truely compete with North America tier-1 MB/BMW/Lexus it should be RWD.
FWIW, the list price of my 1989 Legend LS was ~$29K, compare that to the ~$33K of my 2005 TL. Two Acura's I've owned and are similar in size. If you account for inflation that $29K would be $45K in 2005. Pretty amazing what technology costs, operations research and parts bin engineering can achieve.
01-10-2009, 08:48 AM
#90
AZ Community Team
Thread Starter
...
FWIW, the list price of my 1989 Legend LS was ~$29K, compare that to the ~$33K of my 2005 TL. Two Acura's I've owned and are similar in size. If you account for inflation that $29K would be $45K in 2005. Pretty amazing what technology costs, operations research and parts bin engineering can achieve.
FWIW, the list price of my 1989 Legend LS was ~$29K, compare that to the ~$33K of my 2005 TL. Two Acura's I've owned and are similar in size. If you account for inflation that $29K would be $45K in 2005. Pretty amazing what technology costs, operations research and parts bin engineering can achieve.
TSX is doing very well compared to other Acura models.
01-10-2009, 11:00 AM
#92
AZ Community Team
Thread Starter
Some old MB 240 diesels are up in the 500K-1M mile mark are purpose built diesels. I'm curious how the more modern common rail with no precombustion chamber diesel motors are in the long term reliability. Not having a mechanical fuel injection pump for timing and pressure must really improve reliability as long as the electronic piezo fuel are durable.
Last edited by Legend2TL; 01-10-2009 at 11:02 AM.
01-10-2009, 07:29 PM
#94
practicing nihilist
As long as the motors were specifically designed to be diesels like most today are. The older VW/Audi straight 4/5 and GM V8 diesels that were gasoline engines redesigned for diesel passenger cars (in the 70's and 80's) had pretty bad durability.
Some old MB 240 diesels are up in the 500K-1M mile mark are purpose built diesels. I'm curious how the more modern common rail with no precombustion chamber diesel motors are in the long term reliability. Not having a mechanical fuel injection pump for timing and pressure must really improve reliability as long as the electronic piezo fuel are durable.
Some old MB 240 diesels are up in the 500K-1M mile mark are purpose built diesels. I'm curious how the more modern common rail with no precombustion chamber diesel motors are in the long term reliability. Not having a mechanical fuel injection pump for timing and pressure must really improve reliability as long as the electronic piezo fuel are durable.
01-10-2009, 08:31 PM
#95
Problem for Acura is that it cannot survive with 40% sales decline. It does not have any thing exciting vehciles for next 4 years for things to turn around. Nor it can generated revenue to achive what BMW/Audi/Lexus/MB Already achieved. .
it is way behind in introducing New transmissions/RWD/fuel efficient V6/V8/Turbos/Diesel/hybrids.
50% of Lexus GS sales in Germany are higher priced hybrids.
The best course i already suggested to merge Acura with Honda and lower the price of cars. So alteast these cars will be available to consumer to buy.
it is way behind in introducing New transmissions/RWD/fuel efficient V6/V8/Turbos/Diesel/hybrids.
50% of Lexus GS sales in Germany are higher priced hybrids.
The best course i already suggested to merge Acura with Honda and lower the price of cars. So alteast these cars will be available to consumer to buy.
01-10-2009, 09:31 PM
#96
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I mentioned Toyota because they have recently announced $1.6B loss for fiscal year ended March 2009. So Toyota with far higher priced products and profitable lineup than Honda is announcing loss but Honda with its tiny price product line and much more depended on US/Japan market is showing profits. Do you see some the difference between the two companies management.
How do u think RollsRoyce/BMW/Diamler (Owner of Eurojet/EADS) history in airplane engines.
Honda only have joint venture on very small capacity aero engine whose key part comes from GE. Any big Auto Giant can enter aeroengine business with right amount of money but no one is stupid.
You dont become Tier 1 by building household power machines or lawn movers. Otherwise Siemens would have been the Tier one supplier of Car engines. It is unique blend of experiance of engine/transmission/platform/aerodynamics/insulation/weight.
It is far easier and cheaper to create Toyota Corrolla replacement but far difficult and expensive to create LS460 new model. Honda is good in former.
Another Japanese company which is well known for Its Turbo and diesel engine is Mitsubishi but they become alot smaller when Japanese shrank into half in 90s. Same bad patch happen to Nissan. Honda was lucky as at that time it was mostly concentrating on small fuel efficient cars without too many platforms. but now situation is different. Now even Korean/Chinese will enter low end business. so Honda business model isnt working for long term.
They simply dont have the expertize and money needed to create more higher end products.
[qipte]
And I agree too, it's much easier for big companies like VW and Toyota to develop tier-1 cars.
Man, I can't believe this, but also agree on the diesel issue. I personally like diesel as it's great for city driving. And Audi recently proved that diesel engines can also be applied to racing in their R8.
How do u think RollsRoyce/BMW/Diamler (Owner of Eurojet/EADS) history in airplane engines.
Honda only have joint venture on very small capacity aero engine whose key part comes from GE. Any big Auto Giant can enter aeroengine business with right amount of money but no one is stupid.
You dont become Tier 1 by building household power machines or lawn movers. Otherwise Siemens would have been the Tier one supplier of Car engines. It is unique blend of experiance of engine/transmission/platform/aerodynamics/insulation/weight.
It is far easier and cheaper to create Toyota Corrolla replacement but far difficult and expensive to create LS460 new model. Honda is good in former.
Another Japanese company which is well known for Its Turbo and diesel engine is Mitsubishi but they become alot smaller when Japanese shrank into half in 90s. Same bad patch happen to Nissan. Honda was lucky as at that time it was mostly concentrating on small fuel efficient cars without too many platforms. but now situation is different. Now even Korean/Chinese will enter low end business. so Honda business model isnt working for long term.
They simply dont have the expertize and money needed to create more higher end products.
[qipte]
And I agree too, it's much easier for big companies like VW and Toyota to develop tier-1 cars.
Man, I can't believe this, but also agree on the diesel issue. I personally like diesel as it's great for city driving. And Audi recently proved that diesel engines can also be applied to racing in their R8.
That time is soon coming when Audi8/BMW7/MB S class top model will be diesel.
You cannot say the same about Acura profits to Honda and credit scores of its customers.
Acura is not leader in any technology nor it can contribute profits to low cost Honda strategy.
Can Acura CEO make such statement.
It seems there is no independence in Acura from bean counters sitting at its parent company Honda.[/QUOTE]
For sure, Toyota is different than Honda. lol, I don't know but I don't think I said they are the same before...lol..
Yes indeed, but again, like you said, Honda is a small company, I wouldn't expect it to build the whole plane. Nonetheless, it's involved in many markets as I said earlier, like bikes, atv's, power equipment, lawnmowers, and even robots. I don't think Honda is trying to be a Tier-1 luxury brand...or did you mean something else? If you meant the biggest car company in the world..I'm not sure if Honda is trying to achieve that.
Well, the Korean entered the small-car market many years ago, and they are beginning to make luxury cars, Genesis is a great example. The Chinese, like you said, is building small cars and will go worldwide pretty soon. Nonetheless, Honda's image of building good quality and reliable compact cars will remain, just like Toyota. But they are also moving on to build higher-end cars, it seems like they have a plan already. They might not have the money and/or expertize, but I think they have to start somewhere.
I'd say SH-AWD is a pretty decent technology, otherwise Audi and BMW wouldn't copy it with their Sport differential and DPC respectively.
01-10-2009, 11:36 PM
#97
Yes indeed, but again, like you said, Honda is a small company, I wouldn't expect it to build the whole plane. Nonetheless, it's involved in many markets as I said earlier, like bikes, atv's, power equipment, lawnmowers, and even robots. I don't think Honda is trying to be a Tier-1 luxury brand...or did you mean something else? If you meant the biggest car company in the world..I'm not sure if Honda is trying to achieve that.
Many small firms like Bombardier/Embarer/SAAB/VolvoAero.(It was Volvo knowledge that went to GE making better F414 for F18Superhornet). are pretty successful in there own line of buiness.
It is small Freanch aeroplane manufacturer Dassualt whose CATIA propreitry software is used by many bigger firms like Airbus/Boeing. Even Chinese are building small passenger and business jets with GE.
Honda jet business is just publicity stunt to gain presitige for its Car business. There plane has very small market. All these Mitsubishi/BMW/MB/VW
are far more capabable in aeroplane business. infact first Japanese Passenger airline is Mistubishi that will come out in 2013. No airline or Government is going to give contract to Honda to built aeroplane. There are good in small things for personal use but they are using this to gain popularity. which has practically no relevance to Tier-1 Car business.
Chosing aeroplane is like chosing most efficient and safe passenger bus for business. While Car is personal use item like Clothes/Diamond/House where personal tastes have big influence.
Well, the Korean entered the small-car market many years ago, and they are beginning to make luxury cars, Genesis is a great example. The Chinese, like you said, is building small cars and will go worldwide pretty soon. Nonetheless, Honda's image of building good quality and reliable compact cars will remain, just like Toyota. But they are also moving on to build higher-end cars, it seems like they have a plan already. They might not have the money and/or expertize, but I think they have to start somewhere.
I'd say SH-AWD is a pretty decent technology, otherwise Audi and BMW wouldn't copy it with their Sport differential and DPC respectively.
Acura had 20 years to built Global brand but i think that time has passed. The amount of money and technical experitize required to be acceptable in every market is simply not there.
01-11-2009, 04:40 AM
#98
Honda Fanboy
Honda is not small company. They are fairly big in the thing what they are doing. And that is FWD sedans and crossovers.
Many small firms like Bombardier/Embarer/SAAB/VolvoAero.(It was Volvo knowledge that went to GE making better F414 for F18Superhornet). are pretty successful in there own line of buiness.
It is small Freanch aeroplane manufacturer Dassualt whose CATIA propreitry software is used by many bigger firms like Airbus/Boeing. Even Chinese are building small passenger and business jets with GE.
Honda jet business is just publicity stunt to gain presitige for its Car business. There plane has very small market. All these Mitsubishi/BMW/MB/VW
are far more capabable in aeroplane business. infact first Japanese Passenger airline is Mistubishi that will come out in 2013. No airline or Government is going to give contract to Honda to built aeroplane. There are good in small things for personal use but they are using this to gain popularity. which has practically no relevance to Tier-1 Car business.
Chosing aeroplane is like chosing most efficient and safe passenger bus for business. While Car is personal use item like Clothes/Diamond/House where personal tastes have big influence.
Many small firms like Bombardier/Embarer/SAAB/VolvoAero.(It was Volvo knowledge that went to GE making better F414 for F18Superhornet). are pretty successful in there own line of buiness.
It is small Freanch aeroplane manufacturer Dassualt whose CATIA propreitry software is used by many bigger firms like Airbus/Boeing. Even Chinese are building small passenger and business jets with GE.
Honda jet business is just publicity stunt to gain presitige for its Car business. There plane has very small market. All these Mitsubishi/BMW/MB/VW
are far more capabable in aeroplane business. infact first Japanese Passenger airline is Mistubishi that will come out in 2013. No airline or Government is going to give contract to Honda to built aeroplane. There are good in small things for personal use but they are using this to gain popularity. which has practically no relevance to Tier-1 Car business.
Chosing aeroplane is like chosing most efficient and safe passenger bus for business. While Car is personal use item like Clothes/Diamond/House where personal tastes have big influence.
01-11-2009, 07:19 AM
#99
AZ Community Team
Thread Starter
Honda jet business is just publicity stunt to gain presitige for its Car business. There plane has very small market. All these Mitsubishi/BMW/MB/VW
are far more capabable in aeroplane business. infact first Japanese Passenger airline is Mistubishi that will come out in 2013. ...
.
are far more capabable in aeroplane business. infact first Japanese Passenger airline is Mistubishi that will come out in 2013. ...
.
Mitsubishi has been involved with aviation since pre WW2.
01-11-2009, 08:44 AM
#100
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Anyway, can someone explain how VW is such a capable company with much more technical acumen than Honda, yet still cannot make consistently reliable vehicles? CR consistently rates VW and Audi products near the bottom in reliability, even worse than most American cars. The Audi turbocharged engines are especially problematic. As much as I like the design of the A4, Audi will never be an option until they can produce cars with above average reliability, which looks like it never may happen.
01-11-2009, 01:20 PM
#102
You fail to acknowledge the fact that the only involvement GE had with the Honda Jet was co-developing the engine. The jet was designed by Honda from the ground up. From the unique engine placement to the interior. If Mitsubishi, BMW, MB, and VW are far more capable in the airplane business, then where are their planes today? A company shows that they are capable of something by actually doing it. Honda's jet is a passenger jet and it will be available in 2010. Honda is not expecting government contracts for its jets. It is a private executive jet. How many governments have actually set up contracts for executive jets? This Jet was built long before Acura was aiming for a tier one status. Honda didn't build this for the prestige of their cars. They built this to showcase their ingenuity. Honda doesn't need contracts to sell their products. In the U.S. alone, over 100 orders have already been placed for the $4,000,000 Honda Jet. Europe, Asia, and the Middle-East will only expand on this. How well is VW's jet selling?
They have separate jet engine division with MTU Gmbh. If BMW/VW wants they can very easily make there own Jet engine division.
Honda is just assebling the jet with components provided by alot of different companies. Engine is from GE and Avionics from Garmin. I bet those LCD displays are rockwell collins or Thales.
http://world.honda.com/news/2006/c061017HondaJetNBAA/
An advanced, customized, all-glass cockpit based on the state-of-the-art Garmin avionics platform, will boast new features and capabilities unique to HondaJet.
An advanced, customized, all-glass cockpit based on the state-of-the-art Garmin avionics platform, will boast new features and capabilities unique to HondaJet.
01-11-2009, 01:23 PM
#103
sorry guys but jets have what to do w/ the thread title - honda/acura sales? I don't care if they make submarines.
01-11-2009, 01:49 PM
#104
Any way for 2010 we are only expecting 6MT TL. They should announce V6 diesel for TL by now. I think even Nissan/Infiniti will be ahead of them in diesel and hybrids for Maxima/G37.
http://www.autospies.com/news/Infini...-Coming-22282/
Nissan has filed patents for the names: EX30d, G30d, FX30d, and M30d at the United States Patent and Trademark Office.
Nissan has filed patents for the names: EX30d, G30d, FX30d, and M30d at the United States Patent and Trademark Office.
01-11-2009, 02:38 PM
#105
Honda has the diesel engines - just dont see much sales potential in the US w/ the price of diesel - even w/ incr torque and range. The Honda engine passes US emission regs w/o the 'blue tech' or on board storage of urea that MB and BMW use. In the BMW the urea will last 15k miles - it gives you a several warnings - but eventually if you don't get the urea tank refilled - the car will not start. This honda diesel was going to go in the US TSX
AutomobileJanuary 13, 2008
Acura Will Introduce Clean Diesel i-DTEC Engine in 2009
Turbocharged i-DTEC Engine Displayed at the North American International Auto Show
DETROIT, U.S.A., January 13, 2008–Acura will introduce the new i-DTEC clean diesel engine to the North American market in 2009. The i-DTEC engine reduces noxious exhaust emissions while boosting power and fuel efficiency. A combination of optimized combustion chamber design and reduced injection time results in a clean, quiet engine that delivers excellent performance for an enjoyable driving experience. In addition, the i-DTEC engine meets the ultra-stringent U.S. EPA Tier II Bin 5 emission standards without the on-board storage of urea.
AutomobileJanuary 13, 2008
Acura Will Introduce Clean Diesel i-DTEC Engine in 2009
Turbocharged i-DTEC Engine Displayed at the North American International Auto Show
DETROIT, U.S.A., January 13, 2008–Acura will introduce the new i-DTEC clean diesel engine to the North American market in 2009. The i-DTEC engine reduces noxious exhaust emissions while boosting power and fuel efficiency. A combination of optimized combustion chamber design and reduced injection time results in a clean, quiet engine that delivers excellent performance for an enjoyable driving experience. In addition, the i-DTEC engine meets the ultra-stringent U.S. EPA Tier II Bin 5 emission standards without the on-board storage of urea.
01-11-2009, 04:57 PM
#106
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Yea but they couldn't pass emissions with the A/T I think (or was it the other way around?). Impressive technology, especially considering no cow pee needed. However, I agree that diesel won't be a huge seller because of the higher price. As more diesels are sold the price of diesel will rise further because so little fuel is produced in the States.
Anyway, I think if Honda continues to come out with smaller cars and hybrids their sales will take off and they'll be fine. Looks like Acura is once again being neglected and maybe they don't fair so well.
Anyway, I think if Honda continues to come out with smaller cars and hybrids their sales will take off and they'll be fine. Looks like Acura is once again being neglected and maybe they don't fair so well.
01-11-2009, 05:43 PM
#107
Honda has the diesel engines - just dont see much sales potential in the US w/ the price of diesel - even w/ incr torque and range. The Honda engine passes US emission regs w/o the 'blue tech' or on board storage of urea that MB and BMW use. In the BMW the urea will last 15k miles - it gives you a several warnings - but eventually if you don't get the urea tank refilled - the car will not start. This honda diesel was going to go in the US TSX
AutomobileJanuary 13, 2008
Acura Will Introduce Clean Diesel i-DTEC Engine in 2009
Turbocharged i-DTEC Engine Displayed at the North American International Auto Show
DETROIT, U.S.A., January 13, 2008–Acura will introduce the new i-DTEC clean diesel engine to the North American market in 2009. The i-DTEC engine reduces noxious exhaust emissions while boosting power and fuel efficiency. A combination of optimized combustion chamber design and reduced injection time results in a clean, quiet engine that delivers excellent performance for an enjoyable driving experience. In addition, the i-DTEC engine meets the ultra-stringent U.S. EPA Tier II Bin 5 emission standards without the on-board storage of urea.
AutomobileJanuary 13, 2008
Acura Will Introduce Clean Diesel i-DTEC Engine in 2009
Turbocharged i-DTEC Engine Displayed at the North American International Auto Show
DETROIT, U.S.A., January 13, 2008–Acura will introduce the new i-DTEC clean diesel engine to the North American market in 2009. The i-DTEC engine reduces noxious exhaust emissions while boosting power and fuel efficiency. A combination of optimized combustion chamber design and reduced injection time results in a clean, quiet engine that delivers excellent performance for an enjoyable driving experience. In addition, the i-DTEC engine meets the ultra-stringent U.S. EPA Tier II Bin 5 emission standards without the on-board storage of urea.
http://blogs.edmunds.com/roadtests/V...gen-jetta-tdi/
2009 VW Jetta TDI: What A Difference A Few Little Years Make
Of course, the 2.0-liter TDI powerplant is pretty nice, too. It's quiet for a diesel and has a wider powerband than I'd expected. I happen to know, for example, that it's revving at about 3,600 in 6th gear if you're cruising at 100 mph. Yet, there's still plenty of meat left at this point.
2009 VW Jetta TDI: What A Difference A Few Little Years Make
Of course, the 2.0-liter TDI powerplant is pretty nice, too. It's quiet for a diesel and has a wider powerband than I'd expected. I happen to know, for example, that it's revving at about 3,600 in 6th gear if you're cruising at 100 mph. Yet, there's still plenty of meat left at this point.
There is not alternative platforms for TL in 2010. I havent see any report of Honda Six cylinder hybrid. that will be as powerful as 8 cylinder. U can see lexus nomenclature as they put higher number on nameplat with hybrid. Like GS 450h and RX450. Diesel is just the begining. Honda is simply not making investment even for rebadged TSX.
01-11-2009, 06:06 PM
#108
PopularMechanics put it for 11hr of continous LA city traffic at 23mph avg. So Prius was using its battery most of the time. It is proved from this test that Diesel technology is much better than hybrid as it is propelling much heavier and refined car and it less costly in acquiziation cost.. The higher the speed the better diesel efficiency and lower than hybrid system.
As usual Acura could not produce diesel on time and Unless Brand is associated with new engine technologies/styling/transmission even all around LED lights there is no chance of tier-1.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/auto...s/4284188.html
New VW Jetta Diesel Tops Prius in Fuel-Economy Marathon Test
The new clean Jetta can loaf along, shifting at around 1500 rpm while still providing enough acceleration to keep up with the flow of traffic. The Prius, on the other hand, needs more throttle to accomplish the same speeds.
New VW Jetta Diesel Tops Prius in Fuel-Economy Marathon Test
The new clean Jetta can loaf along, shifting at around 1500 rpm while still providing enough acceleration to keep up with the flow of traffic. The Prius, on the other hand, needs more throttle to accomplish the same speeds.
http://www.automobilemag.com/green/r...sel/index.html
The 2008 Jetta 2.5 gained 20 hp over last year's Jetta, for a total of 170 hp and 177 lb-ft of torque. The 2.0-liter TDI can't compete on horsepower, as it produces only 140, but it blows the gas engine away in torque, twisting out 235 lb-ft. And let's not forget that as a driving society, Americans love torque and the instant acceleration it provides
Off the line, even with air conditioning on and four people in the car, the Jetta TDI will spin its front wheels. It felt quicker than the V-12-powered 1991 BMW 850i six-speed I had just test-driven across the street. (The stunningly beat-up 850i is visible in one of the photos).
As far as the EPA ratings go, the automatic 2.5 Jetta is EPA rated at 21/29; the TDI is EPA rated at 29/40 with DSG twin-clutch transmission. Volkswagen was unhappy with the EPA numbers and had AMCI, an independent testing company, run real-world fuel-economy tests on the Jetta TDI Clean Diesel. Their results were 38 mpg city, 44 mpg highway. Here's your homework assignment: go to the VW dealer, buy a Jetta TDI Clean Diesel, and let us know how it does
The 2008 Jetta 2.5 gained 20 hp over last year's Jetta, for a total of 170 hp and 177 lb-ft of torque. The 2.0-liter TDI can't compete on horsepower, as it produces only 140, but it blows the gas engine away in torque, twisting out 235 lb-ft. And let's not forget that as a driving society, Americans love torque and the instant acceleration it provides
Off the line, even with air conditioning on and four people in the car, the Jetta TDI will spin its front wheels. It felt quicker than the V-12-powered 1991 BMW 850i six-speed I had just test-driven across the street. (The stunningly beat-up 850i is visible in one of the photos).
As far as the EPA ratings go, the automatic 2.5 Jetta is EPA rated at 21/29; the TDI is EPA rated at 29/40 with DSG twin-clutch transmission. Volkswagen was unhappy with the EPA numbers and had AMCI, an independent testing company, run real-world fuel-economy tests on the Jetta TDI Clean Diesel. Their results were 38 mpg city, 44 mpg highway. Here's your homework assignment: go to the VW dealer, buy a Jetta TDI Clean Diesel, and let us know how it does
Last edited by SSFTSX; 01-11-2009 at 06:11 PM.
01-11-2009, 07:42 PM
#110
Yea but they couldn't pass emissions with the A/T I think (or was it the other way around?). Impressive technology, especially considering no cow pee needed. However, I agree that diesel won't be a huge seller because of the higher price. As more diesels are sold the price of diesel will rise further because so little fuel is produced in the States.
Anyway, I think if Honda continues to come out with smaller cars and hybrids their sales will take off and they'll be fine. Looks like Acura is once again being neglected and maybe they don't fair so well.
Anyway, I think if Honda continues to come out with smaller cars and hybrids their sales will take off and they'll be fine. Looks like Acura is once again being neglected and maybe they don't fair so well.
Similar is case of commercial vehicles as they will need less diesel consumption due to less overall business activity in next couple of years.
Same is case with less diesel demand and more fuel efficient diesel cars in EU/Asia. for example. 10 years. Avg diesel car in EU got ave 35mpg. But now average is more in 60mpg. Small turbo charged diesels have eliminated the need of large capacity engines. so World is moving towards surplus diesel fuel capacity.
Diesel fuel is with in 20 cent of Premium fuel in SF bayarea now.
http://www.sanfrangasprices.com/index.aspx?fuel=D
We are looking for diesel cars in premium segment of TL/TSX/RL/MDX class not mass market Civic/Accord. So there is little chance of effect on overall consumption.
01-11-2009, 08:07 PM
#111
VW 4cylinder TDI is without Urea and is already certified for California. with DSG transmission. Edmunds have added it to its long term fleet. they got 36.4mpg. and it is 3400lbs car with auto. It is only 2.0TDI. It is the torque that makes it so efficient cruiser. more than 40mpg on freeway.
There is not alternative platforms for TL in 2010. I havent see any report of Honda Six cylinder hybrid. that will be as powerful as 8 cylinder. U can see lexus nomenclature as they put higher number on nameplat with hybrid. Like GS 450h and RX450. Diesel is just the begining. Honda is simply not making investment even for rebadged TSX.
There is not alternative platforms for TL in 2010. I havent see any report of Honda Six cylinder hybrid. that will be as powerful as 8 cylinder. U can see lexus nomenclature as they put higher number on nameplat with hybrid. Like GS 450h and RX450. Diesel is just the begining. Honda is simply not making investment even for rebadged TSX.
01-11-2009, 08:09 PM
#112
PopularMechanics put it for 11hr of continous LA city traffic at 23mph avg. So Prius was using its battery most of the time. It is proved from this test that Diesel technology is much better than hybrid as it is propelling much heavier and refined car and it less costly in acquiziation cost.. The higher the speed the better diesel efficiency and lower than hybrid system.
As usual Acura could not produce diesel on time and Unless Brand is associated with new engine technologies/styling/transmission even all around LED lights there is no chance of tier-1.
As usual Acura could not produce diesel on time and Unless Brand is associated with new engine technologies/styling/transmission even all around LED lights there is no chance of tier-1.
01-11-2009, 08:12 PM
#113
You have to also consider that overall US Auto market has decreased from 16 to 17 million new vehicles to 11 to 12 million. That hits mass manufacturer alot alot who want to seel alot of sales to make profit.
Similar is case of commercial vehicles as they will need less diesel consumption due to less overall business activity in next couple of years.
Same is case with less diesel demand and more fuel efficient diesel cars in EU/Asia. for example. 10 years. Avg diesel car in EU got ave 35mpg. But now average is more in 60mpg. Small turbo charged diesels have eliminated the need of large capacity engines. so World is moving towards surplus diesel fuel capacity.
Diesel fuel is with in 20 cent of Premium fuel in SF bayarea now.
http://www.sanfrangasprices.com/index.aspx?fuel=D
We are looking for diesel cars in premium segment of TL/TSX/RL/MDX class not mass market Civic/Accord. So there is little chance of effect on overall consumption.
Similar is case of commercial vehicles as they will need less diesel consumption due to less overall business activity in next couple of years.
Same is case with less diesel demand and more fuel efficient diesel cars in EU/Asia. for example. 10 years. Avg diesel car in EU got ave 35mpg. But now average is more in 60mpg. Small turbo charged diesels have eliminated the need of large capacity engines. so World is moving towards surplus diesel fuel capacity.
Diesel fuel is with in 20 cent of Premium fuel in SF bayarea now.
http://www.sanfrangasprices.com/index.aspx?fuel=D
We are looking for diesel cars in premium segment of TL/TSX/RL/MDX class not mass market Civic/Accord. So there is little chance of effect on overall consumption.
Ford has a close to 60mpg diesel Focus in Europe - supposedly to expensive to make $ on here?
01-11-2009, 08:31 PM
#114
http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpconta...5/pageNumber=6
At the same time, we felt let down by the Accord Hybrid's fuel-efficiency. A post made by raytx_us on the CarSpace forum for Honda Accord Hybrid owners shared similar disappointment: "I bought this car to save money on gas along with saving the environment, and spent more up front to do so. I have never had better than 27.9 mpg and that during an 8-hour trip. Now I'm left with a bitter taste in my mouth about Honda, my dealer and I just want someone to fix it or take it back. My current average is 25.7 mpg."
Our average fuel economy after two years proved to be just shy of 24 mpg, and it makes us question the price premium we paid for hybrid power. While our best tank was over 35 mpg — good for a 400-mile range — such long trips were few and far between. Our real-world driving amounted to a range of 20-25 mpg. Even so, it's worth noting again that a 2006 Honda Accord EX V6 has a rating of 20 mpg city/29 mpg highway.
At the same time, we felt let down by the Accord Hybrid's fuel-efficiency. A post made by raytx_us on the CarSpace forum for Honda Accord Hybrid owners shared similar disappointment: "I bought this car to save money on gas along with saving the environment, and spent more up front to do so. I have never had better than 27.9 mpg and that during an 8-hour trip. Now I'm left with a bitter taste in my mouth about Honda, my dealer and I just want someone to fix it or take it back. My current average is 25.7 mpg."
Our average fuel economy after two years proved to be just shy of 24 mpg, and it makes us question the price premium we paid for hybrid power. While our best tank was over 35 mpg — good for a 400-mile range — such long trips were few and far between. Our real-world driving amounted to a range of 20-25 mpg. Even so, it's worth noting again that a 2006 Honda Accord EX V6 has a rating of 20 mpg city/29 mpg highway.
01-11-2009, 08:44 PM
#115
Honda IDTEC is only rated at 150bhp with fuel economy that is 25% worse than Audi/BMW diesels which have more power and low end torque for 4cylinder.
I doubt Honda IDTEC would have produced more than 120bhp in current form for US market. which would have unacceptable performance for TSX. So it is better to cancel yet another failed project.
Diesel revolution is just the beginning.
01-11-2009, 09:19 PM
#116
Honda Fanboy
Why you jump in subject on which you have no expertize. Daimler the parent company of MB was the major controlling share holder in EADS (The parent company of Airbus 65% of World passenger market).
They have separate jet engine division with MTU Gmbh. If BMW/VW wants they can very easily make there own Jet engine division.
Honda is just assebling the jet with components provided by alot of different companies. Engine is from GE and Avionics from Garmin. I bet those LCD displays are rockwell collins or Thales.
$4M jet?. In Europe turboprop cost more than this jet. Just one Dassualt Falcon business Jet cost $20 to 30$m. European expertize in Aviation are very different than Japanese.
They have separate jet engine division with MTU Gmbh. If BMW/VW wants they can very easily make there own Jet engine division.
Honda is just assebling the jet with components provided by alot of different companies. Engine is from GE and Avionics from Garmin. I bet those LCD displays are rockwell collins or Thales.
$4M jet?. In Europe turboprop cost more than this jet. Just one Dassualt Falcon business Jet cost $20 to 30$m. European expertize in Aviation are very different than Japanese.
Honda designed this jet from the ground up. OF COURSE Honda is using parts from other manufacturers. Who doesn't? Does VW make every single component that goes into their cars? How stupid of you. The engine was CO-DEVELOPED by GE and Honda. This is why we have www.gehonda.com; educate yourself. LCD displays? Is that how low you are getting? My Sony laptop (a company that is in the forefront of LCD technology) uses a Toshiba LCD panel. Sony must suck and not have the technology or money to make an LCD screen.
Comparing HondaJet to a Dassault Falcon. What is your point here? The Dassault Falcon jet with the LEAST range is the Falcon 2000DX at 3,250 nm. For comparison, the HondaJet has a range of 1,400 nm. The 2000DX is a $24 million dollar jet and holds a maximum of 10 passengers. The Hondajet costs $4,000,000 and can hold a maximum of 6 passengers. Compare apples to apples. Not apples to deodorant spray.
01-11-2009, 09:38 PM
#117
So let me get this straight... Diamler, the parent company of Mercedes-Benz, WAS the major controlling share holder of EADS, which is the parent company of Airbus, which automatically makes MB more capable than Honda to make a jet. Wow, you got me there. VW does not have a jet because they don't have the capability nor the technology to do so (sound familiar?).
Honda designed this jet from the ground up. OF COURSE Honda is using parts from other manufacturers. Who doesn't? Does VW make every single component that goes into their cars? How stupid of you. The engine was CO-DEVELOPED by GE and Honda. This is why we have www.gehonda.com; educate yourself. LCD displays? Is that how low you are getting? My Sony laptop (a company that is in the forefront of LCD technology) uses a Toshiba LCD panel. Sony must suck and not have the technology or money to make an LCD screen.
Comparing HondaJet to a Dassault Falcon. What is your point here? The Dassault Falcon jet with the LEAST range is the Falcon 2000DX at 3,250 nm. For comparison, the HondaJet has a range of 1,400 nm. The 2000DX is a $24 million dollar jet and holds a maximum of 10 passengers. The Hondajet costs $4,000,000 and can hold a maximum of 6 passengers. Compare apples to apples. Not apples to deodorant spray.
Honda designed this jet from the ground up. OF COURSE Honda is using parts from other manufacturers. Who doesn't? Does VW make every single component that goes into their cars? How stupid of you. The engine was CO-DEVELOPED by GE and Honda. This is why we have www.gehonda.com; educate yourself. LCD displays? Is that how low you are getting? My Sony laptop (a company that is in the forefront of LCD technology) uses a Toshiba LCD panel. Sony must suck and not have the technology or money to make an LCD screen.
Comparing HondaJet to a Dassault Falcon. What is your point here? The Dassault Falcon jet with the LEAST range is the Falcon 2000DX at 3,250 nm. For comparison, the HondaJet has a range of 1,400 nm. The 2000DX is a $24 million dollar jet and holds a maximum of 10 passengers. The Hondajet costs $4,000,000 and can hold a maximum of 6 passengers. Compare apples to apples. Not apples to deodorant spray.
http://myjetreview.com/html/hondajet.html
The plane was constructed by Honda R&D Americas in North Carolina and all flight tests have been conducted in the U.S..
The plane was constructed by Honda R&D Americas in North Carolina and all flight tests have been conducted in the U.S..
http://www.rolls-royce.com/deutschland/en/default.htm
Rolls-Royce Deutschland - Germany's only company with full systems capability to develop, certify and produce modern turbofan-engines - is well positioned to meet the changing developments and challenges of the international markets in a goal-oriented manner.
The Rolls-Royce BR710 is the sole engine offered on the Gulfstream 500 and on the Gulfstream 550 and on the Bombardier Global Express long range business jets, as well as on the new Bombardier super-large business jet Global 5000.
In 2005, Rolls-Royce relocated one of its large civil aero engines, hitherto assembled and tested at its main Derby site in the UK, to Dahlewitz. A further step by Rolls-Royce towards the implementation of its strategy to build up competence centres around the world. The V2500 is a twin-shaft turbofan suitable for short- and medium-range aircraft and is installed on the Airbus A319, A320 and A321 and the A319 Corporate Jet. Responsibility for the V2500 programme, its technology management, final assembly and test were transferred to Rolls-Royce Deutschland
Rolls-Royce Deutschland - Germany's only company with full systems capability to develop, certify and produce modern turbofan-engines - is well positioned to meet the changing developments and challenges of the international markets in a goal-oriented manner.
The Rolls-Royce BR710 is the sole engine offered on the Gulfstream 500 and on the Gulfstream 550 and on the Bombardier Global Express long range business jets, as well as on the new Bombardier super-large business jet Global 5000.
In 2005, Rolls-Royce relocated one of its large civil aero engines, hitherto assembled and tested at its main Derby site in the UK, to Dahlewitz. A further step by Rolls-Royce towards the implementation of its strategy to build up competence centres around the world. The V2500 is a twin-shaft turbofan suitable for short- and medium-range aircraft and is installed on the Airbus A319, A320 and A321 and the A319 Corporate Jet. Responsibility for the V2500 programme, its technology management, final assembly and test were transferred to Rolls-Royce Deutschland
01-11-2009, 10:06 PM
#118
Honda Fanboy
It seems that Honda just hired bunch of aeronautical engineers in US. as wing flow design was first researched at NASA. It is not Honda Japan indigenous creation. Read there colloboration with Piper aircraft for colloboration in Sales and support. After aerospace mergers and acquistion in 90s. Alot of downsizing happened and alot aeropsace companies evaporate like McDonald/Grumann/GeneralDynanmics.
Well it is a good thing that what SEEMS isn't what is. Facts are facts. Just accept it. So according to you, Honda has some sort of collaboration in sales and support. So what if they did? That doesn't mean Piper built the jet for them. What is your point with this? What does downsizing have to do with this? Just more pointless jibber-jabber?
Its RollyRoyce that are supplying next generation engines to 787/Airbus350/F-35 and consider its specialliy design engine for vertical lift off. and alot of work comes from Its German operations.
What does that have to do with VW? Rolls Royce is English, VW is German. VW has shown that they don't have the technology or capability to build a jet to compete with Honda.
The amount of Engine expertize that is readily available in Germany far exceeds Japan. BMW/VW/MB are rich companies. they would have no problem in launching there own independent aviation jet engine division. Just like they can afford RollsRoyce/Bentley/Maybach etc. Imagine Honda resurrecting such expensive show peices.
I have no doubt that there is a lot of jet engine expertize AVAILABLE in Germany. That doesn't mean that it is supplied by Germany or even utilized for that matter. VW just doesn't have the capability to utilize what is available. Thats why they are begging the German government for loan guarantees. Maybach? You mean before or after it was discontinued and now being considered for discontinuation again?
Well it is a good thing that what SEEMS isn't what is. Facts are facts. Just accept it. So according to you, Honda has some sort of collaboration in sales and support. So what if they did? That doesn't mean Piper built the jet for them. What is your point with this? What does downsizing have to do with this? Just more pointless jibber-jabber?
Its RollyRoyce that are supplying next generation engines to 787/Airbus350/F-35 and consider its specialliy design engine for vertical lift off. and alot of work comes from Its German operations.
What does that have to do with VW? Rolls Royce is English, VW is German. VW has shown that they don't have the technology or capability to build a jet to compete with Honda.
The amount of Engine expertize that is readily available in Germany far exceeds Japan. BMW/VW/MB are rich companies. they would have no problem in launching there own independent aviation jet engine division. Just like they can afford RollsRoyce/Bentley/Maybach etc. Imagine Honda resurrecting such expensive show peices.
I have no doubt that there is a lot of jet engine expertize AVAILABLE in Germany. That doesn't mean that it is supplied by Germany or even utilized for that matter. VW just doesn't have the capability to utilize what is available. Thats why they are begging the German government for loan guarantees. Maybach? You mean before or after it was discontinued and now being considered for discontinuation again?
01-11-2009, 10:17 PM
#119
AZ Community Team
Thread Starter
For the same reason you jump on subjects which you have no expertise in,
Anyone with any sense of knowledge and experience in aviation design, development, and manufacuting knows that the vast majority of jet aircraft manufactuers are systems integrators. Aircraft manufactuers team with engine (Rolls Royce, P&W, GE, CFM), avionics (Rockwell Collins, Allied, Honeywell), strutural (LTV, and many others), landing gear (Messier-Dowty), electrical (Sunstrand). So of course Honda like almost every other aircraft manufacturer does not build it's own displays. Honda is building some of the structural and integrating other components. Why would any rational person think otherwise. On the Boeing 787, ~3/4 of the structure (not including avionics, engines, hydralics, flight management,...) is being built outside of Boeing!
And if you think it's so easy to be in the commercial aviation business talk to Lockheed, McDonnell Douglas, North American, Convair,... all of whom were once in it (some at times were the leader too). Same goes for the jet engine business, not easy by any means. To suggest so makes one look very foolish.
Anyone with any sense of knowledge and experience in aviation design, development, and manufacuting knows that the vast majority of jet aircraft manufactuers are systems integrators. Aircraft manufactuers team with engine (Rolls Royce, P&W, GE, CFM), avionics (Rockwell Collins, Allied, Honeywell), strutural (LTV, and many others), landing gear (Messier-Dowty), electrical (Sunstrand). So of course Honda like almost every other aircraft manufacturer does not build it's own displays. Honda is building some of the structural and integrating other components. Why would any rational person think otherwise. On the Boeing 787, ~3/4 of the structure (not including avionics, engines, hydralics, flight management,...) is being built outside of Boeing!
And if you think it's so easy to be in the commercial aviation business talk to Lockheed, McDonnell Douglas, North American, Convair,... all of whom were once in it (some at times were the leader too). Same goes for the jet engine business, not easy by any means. To suggest so makes one look very foolish.
Why you jump in subject on which you have no expertize. Daimler the parent company of MB was the major controlling share holder in EADS (The parent company of Airbus 65% of World passenger market).
They have separate jet engine division with MTU Gmbh. If BMW/VW wants they can very easily make there own Jet engine division.
Honda is just assebling the jet with components provided by alot of different companies. Engine is from GE and Avionics from Garmin. I bet those LCD displays are rockwell collins or Thales.
$4M jet?. In Europe turboprop cost more than this jet. Just one Dassualt Falcon business Jet cost $20 to 30$m. European expertize in Aviation are very different than Japanese.
They have separate jet engine division with MTU Gmbh. If BMW/VW wants they can very easily make there own Jet engine division.
Honda is just assebling the jet with components provided by alot of different companies. Engine is from GE and Avionics from Garmin. I bet those LCD displays are rockwell collins or Thales.
$4M jet?. In Europe turboprop cost more than this jet. Just one Dassualt Falcon business Jet cost $20 to 30$m. European expertize in Aviation are very different than Japanese.
Last edited by Legend2TL; 01-11-2009 at 10:20 PM.
01-11-2009, 10:26 PM
#120
AZ Community Team
Thread Starter
It seems that Honda just hired bunch of aeronautical engineers in US. as wing flow design was first researched at NASA. It is not Honda Japan indigenous creation. Read there colloboration with Piper aircraft for colloboration in Sales and support. After aerospace mergers and acquistion in 90s. Alot of downsizing happened and alot aeropsace companies evaporate like McDonald/Grumann/GeneralDynanmics.
Its RollyRoyce that are supplying next generation engines to 787/Airbus350/F-35 and consider its specialliy design engine for vertical lift off. and alot of work comes from Its German operations.
The amount of Engine expertize that is readily available in Germany far exceeds Japan. BMW/VW/MB are rich companies. they would have no problem in launching there own independent aviation jet engine division. Just like they can afford RollsRoyce/Bentley/Maybach etc. Imagine Honda resurrecting such expensive show peices.
Its RollyRoyce that are supplying next generation engines to 787/Airbus350/F-35 and consider its specialliy design engine for vertical lift off. and alot of work comes from Its German operations.
The amount of Engine expertize that is readily available in Germany far exceeds Japan. BMW/VW/MB are rich companies. they would have no problem in launching there own independent aviation jet engine division. Just like they can afford RollsRoyce/Bentley/Maybach etc. Imagine Honda resurrecting such expensive show peices.
If you'd like to educate yourself there's some great articles on modern jet engine design. Even the great manufacturers have stumbled (Rolls Royce RB211 nearly bankrupted not only Rolls but Lockheed which needed the engine for the L1011).